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New Creator Theme: Elders! - posted on 1st Sep 2018 at 11:43 AM
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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 12:29 AM Last edited by thevogel : 20th Jun 2018 at 11:35 PM.
Default EA is Ruining The Sims by Optimus on YouTube
Stumbled on to this today...thought it was an interesting watch. Sums up a lot of what I've been feeling. Your thoughts?

https://youtu.be/3ZG-vr1w_w4
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Instructor
#2 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 2:40 AM
Clickbait.

I think the majority of people here shown discontent over TS4 over the years, the last big negative bomb was the "My First Pet" were the perception was that was contented for the Pets expansion that was cut out to be sold as a separate pack, the notion that "EA is Ruining The Sims" is something that isnt exactly new and at this point with Seasons that had a very positive reception coming out in a couple of days it have a incredible odd timing to pointing out that EA have mismanaged The Sims for years now..
Forum Resident
#3 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 6:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakron
Clickbait.

I think the majority of people here shown discontent over TS4 over the years, the last big negative bomb was the "My First Pet" were the perception was that was contented for the Pets expansion that was cut out to be sold as a separate pack, the notion that "EA is Ruining The Sims" is something that isnt exactly new and at this point with Seasons that had a very positive reception coming out in a couple of days it have a incredible odd timing to pointing out that EA have mismanaged The Sims for years now..

I watched the entire video and I actually thought that it brought up a lot of good points about what EA is doing not only to this franchise but others as well I mean how could I look forward to a Sims 5 if they're just going to keep stripping out huge chunks of stuff that should be a life simulator and then sell it to you later and it been 4 years and still there aren't even any burglars and firefighters in the game. Sure the title of the video may be a little clickbaity but that doesn't make the stuff said in the video invalid and irrelevant about the greed of the video game industry especially EA.
Lab Assistant
#4 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 6:46 PM
I disagree with the notion that it is clickbait. It may not discuss any new points as far as MTS is concerned but it does bring to light some very real issues for those who have not been exposed to such conversations (such as people who are primarily on the official forums, where dissent is shouted down by other users and removed entirely by mods).

I agreed with all of the video's talking points. Thank you for sharing!

Lurking since 10/2/07 ~ Call me Cheezy. ;)
Tumblr: http://mmmcheezy.tumblr.com/
Instructor
#5 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 8:06 PM
He wasn't wrong per se, but it didn't really have that much of an effect on me because it's the same shit we've been saying for the past 4 1/2 years now. We can keep bitching about the same stuff, but will EA change? No. At this point I'm just worn out from the series and hoping that it'll get better while knowing deep down that it won't.
Forum Resident
#6 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 9:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Averex
He wasn't wrong per se, but it didn't really have that much of an effect on me because it's the same shit we've been saying for the past 4 1/2 years now. We can keep bitching about the same stuff, but will EA change? No. At this point I'm just worn out from the series and hoping that it'll get better while knowing deep down that it won't.

I honestly think it's time that we get a good competitor for the Sims to shake things up and get EA off their lazy and greedy butts and actually start working for that money but unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#7 Old 20th Jun 2018 at 11:53 PM
Well I didn't post it as Clickbait... I actually thought the guy made some really good points, that is why I created a thread for it. But I guess if it's seen as clickbait.... not my intention. And yeah, I am aware that we have talked about these things here at MTS...but I like how he broke it down about the stripping away of the game itself. I find that to be the main reason that I just cannot play this version of the game. So much has been taken out in terms of gameplay and content.

Anyway...it was good to hear it from another angle, Plus I thought it could be informative to those who don't understand why some of us just can't get into the game, and are always perceived as bitching about it.
Theorist
#8 Old 21st Jun 2018 at 6:39 AM
It’s a good video, and yeah I think EA can’t get away with this for too much longer. It’s too much of an open secret now and the flop of Ts4 has really backfired on them.

#BlairWitchPetition
TS3 NEEDS: TENNIS COURTS > BUSES > PIGS/SHEEP
Can't find stuff in build and buy mode? http://www.nexusmods.com/thesims3/mods/1/?
Forum Resident
#9 Old 22nd Jun 2018 at 6:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevogel
Well I didn't post it as Clickbait... I actually thought the guy made some really good points, that is why I created a thread for it. But I guess if it's seen as clickbait.... not my intention. And yeah, I am aware that we have talked about these things here at MTS...but I like how he broke it down about the stripping away of the game itself. I find that to be the main reason that I just cannot play this version of the game. So much has been taken out in terms of gameplay and content.

Anyway...it was good to hear it from another angle, Plus I thought it could be informative to those who don't understand why some of us just can't get into the game, and are always perceived as bitching about it.

I actually gave it another chance but the more I played it the more that I realized how bland the game was compared to 3 and 2 and I had only played on up until my child grew up to a teen and that's when I gave up on it. One of the biggest things that annoyed me in that game is that the teens are as tall as the adults and they look too eerie a lot like the young adult and adult life stage which are one of things that ruined the enjoyment of the game for me and that's only one of many things that made me give up on the game. Anyways do you plan on getting the new Seasons pack because I know I sure won't?
Lab Assistant
#10 Old 22nd Jun 2018 at 6:46 PM Last edited by Unsearchably : 22nd Jun 2018 at 7:14 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakron
I think the majority of people here shown discontent over TS4 over the years, the last big negative bomb was the "My First Pet" were the perception was that was contented for the Pets expansion that was cut out to be sold as a separate pack, the notion that "EA is Ruining The Sims" is something that isnt exactly new and at this point with Seasons that had a very positive reception coming out in a couple of days it have a incredible odd timing to pointing out that EA have mismanaged The Sims for years now..


It's had a very positive reception from the people who were actually dumb enough to buy it despite all the corners EAxis cut with it. Those of us with standards made our reception pretty clear a long time ago.

The video isn't clickbait, it's just a broken record. Coming from a guy who apparently (unironically) likes XXXTenacious.
Alchemist
#11 Old 22nd Jun 2018 at 7:18 PM
In that video, it only or for the most part emphasis the issue of peacemealing, but I have beyond problems than just that with what their doing to the series. Doesn't describe everything to bits unlike mirta000's videos.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#12 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidconqueror
I actually gave it another chance but the more I played it the more that I realized how bland the game was compared to 3 and 2 and I had only played on up until my child grew up to a teen and that's when I gave up on it. One of the biggest things that annoyed me in that game is that the teens are as tall as the adults and they look too eerie a lot like the young adult and adult life stage which are one of things that ruined the enjoyment of the game for me and that's only one of many things that made me give up on the game. Anyways do you plan on getting the new Seasons pack because I know I sure won't?



I almost gave it another chance a few months back. But because EA has never made an effort to fix or add to the lack luster build mode I just couldn't bring myself to reinstall it...I know I will never be happy with this game with the way it currently plays. I've seen the glass roofs in the season pack... and they are nice...but very flawed. I've already seen a couple of builders on the official forums tell people it's not worth buying the Seasons EP for. So I wont be reinstalling or purchasing anything new or any packs that I currently don't have. I haven't played in 2 or more years... the last thing I purchased was the Backyard stuff pack... and I just could not justify paying for anything else, cause most everything in the packs were just recolored content of things that were already in the game. And that seems to be something they have continued to do. I don't like paying for the same thing over and over just because they changed the color or added another swatch to it. So that would be a big No for Seasons.

And you are right about the Teens and young adults... that always confused me when I first bought the game. They just cut so many corners with this version of the game and I can't get into it. And everytime another DLC comes out...I look at what people are saying... and 3 days will go by and people are back to being bored with the game.

I have TS3 installed, and when I need to get my sims fix, I just play that. It plays really well on my computer and I don't have the lag or long loading times that people talk about. It plays smooth. I've got a few Nraas mods in there, and a couple of mods from here (MTS) and it's still a great game.
Lab Assistant
#13 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 6:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsearchably
Coming from a guy who apparently (unironically) likes XXXTenacious.

Haha, glad I wasn't the only one who thought this when I saw this video originally come up in my feed. The whole internet was in tears about this guy, yet everyone is in an uproar about the children in cages. I know, I know, very different topics - but I wish people would wake up and smell the roses once and a while.

I felt like he made some good points, always good to get a bigger platform out there to say "Hey wonder what happened to The Sims?" But I wish he had talked to someone like from MTS or someone to really, I mean REALLY know just how bad things have gotten. He barely mentioned mobile, if I remember correctly. Not only that but Mobile is like 90% all a direct port from TS4 which makes it incredibly cheap to deal with.
He did try to say that they could port TS3 stuff to TS4 no problem but it's a different engine, I thought this wasn't actually as easy as it seems? I could be wrong though because TS3 did have a lot of TS2 animations surprisingly.

I am so incredibly desperate for a competitor, I mean paradox "eluded" that they may make one almost 5 years ago! Christ's sake.

There was a rumor that EA hired a few programmers for Maxis/Sim Studio, does anyone know any details on this? - eluding to a Sims 5.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 6:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by katxattack
Haha, glad I wasn't the only one who thought this when I saw this video originally come up in my feed. The whole internet was in tears about this guy, yet everyone is in an uproar about the children in cages. I know, I know, very different topics - but I wish people would wake up and smell the roses once and a while.

I felt like he made some good points, always good to get a bigger platform out there to say "Hey wonder what happened to The Sims?" But I wish he had talked to someone like from MTS or someone to really, I mean REALLY know just how bad things have gotten. He barely mentioned mobile, if I remember correctly. Not only that but Mobile is like 90% all a direct port from TS4 which makes it incredibly cheap to deal with.
He did try to say that they could port TS3 stuff to TS4 no problem but it's a different engine, I thought this wasn't actually as easy as it seems? I could be wrong though because TS3 did have a lot of TS2 animations surprisingly.

I am so incredibly desperate for a competitor, I mean paradox "eluded" that they may make one almost 5 years ago! Christ's sake.

There was a rumor that EA hired a few programmers for Maxis/Sim Studio, does anyone know any details on this? - eluding to a Sims 5.


When they were announcing Guru's leaving, getting fired, or moving to the mobile team...there was one guru that stated that when they launch a new sims game they usually have a team working on the next one.... so when they launched sims 3, they had a team working on Sims4. But apparently this time around, they did not do that. There was never a plan to make a Sims 5. I'm pretty sure that EA thought the Mobile thing was going to be their main focus... probably had seasons in the works as a back up plan. And of course the mobile thing has kinda bombed, so now they are backpedaling to make up the loss with extending the life of TS4.

Yeah I really wish there was a competitor... I don't think it's out of the question for Paradox to tackle it. I just believe they would not make a half assed effort. It would be something that would make EA look like amateurs. And it would be a game that required much healthier graphic cards, Ram, and the current Windows 10. Paradox does not make games that cater to outdated specs ... Which would make it a superior game. I say wait it out. Save your money... update your computer or buy a newer one that can handle the games of today and future. I really do think it's a possibility.
Lab Assistant
#15 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 7:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevogel
When they were announcing Guru's leaving, getting fired, or moving to the mobile team...there was one guru that stated that when they launch a new sims game they usually have a team working on the next one.

Yeah I really wish there was a competitor... I don't think it's out of the question for Paradox to tackle it. I just believe they would not make a half assed effort. It would be something that would make EA look like amateurs. And it would be a game that required much healthier graphic cards, Ram, and the current Windows 10. Paradox does not make games that cater to outdated specs ... Which would make it a superior game. I say wait it out. Save your money... update your computer or buy a newer one that can handle the games of today and future. I really do think it's a possibility.


There was a very recent rumor that they very recently hired a bunch of programmers, after what happened with those guru's leaving. But it wasn't much of a rumor.

Also I have a pretty great computer right now. I do think Paradox would understand that The Sims is more casual, I don't think they would go super crazy into the graphics because that isn't what players want/have money to afford new PC... I do think there would be a very noticeable improvement, absolutely, but I don't think it would require specs out the wazoo.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#16 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 8:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by katxattack
There was a very recent rumor that they very recently hired a bunch of programmers, after what happened with those guru's leaving. But it wasn't much of a rumor.

Also I have a pretty great computer right now. I do think Paradox would understand that The Sims is more casual, I don't think they would go super crazy into the graphics because that isn't what players want/have money to afford new PC... I do think there would be a very noticeable improvement, absolutely, but I don't think it would require specs out the wazoo.


I totally agree... the peeps over at Paradox know exactly what sims players want, because they have allowed a thread about the sims to stay open on their forum for the past 3 years. I have contributed to it a lot here lately. But I do think that it would require much higher specs than what EA usually does. When I talk about the specs for the game, I'm always thinking about it in comparison to what EA does. So maybe not out the wazoo, but for people who are accustomed to lower specs, and EA always making the game for older Operating systems... it would be a big change. Paradox is about quality...they want their games to last, and create DLC that won't break the base game...Unlike EA who can't seem to create any kind of expansion without breaking something.

Anyway...I don't think it's out of the question...I think it's just a matter of timing. with EA announcing that they are extending TS4 for another 3 years and currently have no plans to make a Sims 5.... Now is a good time for a competitor to make a move. I also don't think Paradox or any other game studio would tell anyone they were working on it. It would probably be close to launch before it was announced And it wouldn't be called the Sims.
Top Secret Researcher
#17 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 9:19 PM
Paradox have been burned, and burned badly, by premature game announcements - so if they announce anything, it's ready for beta.

They announced Imperator: Rome earlier this year at Paradoxcom, but they still have several known secret projects. (One is undoubtedly Victoria 3, but we have no idea as to what the others might be.)
Instructor
#18 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 9:41 PM
I kind of agree and disagree with this video and it's premise but I don't think he is entirely wrong either. I don't think it is inherently wrong for developers to continue to add paid content to their games because it benefits both the player and the developer and extends the lifecycle of the game. Companies like Paradox are great about this because we get games like Crusader Kings 2 and Stellaris which continue to get better and better as time goes on and result in being a much more complete game by the end of it's life (if they have one). Paradox does charge for those expansions and DLCs, however, they often go on sale, they give free patch updates, you can still play with your friends who have the DLC if you don't, and they aren't $39 expansions or DLCs.

This is where EA is screwing up. They are charging far too much for mediocre content that is unreasonably priced far too high. As a result, gamers are suffering because we're not getting the a lot of content that we expect and we are paying more for less. Meanwhile, Electronic Arts Is also suffering because they are not getting the sales figures or the profits that they expect from such a franchise and they they're likely moving development talent and skills away from the franchise and into other products. They basically need to decide if they want to put the work and investment into these games (like they did with Sims 3) to make them worthwhile and profitable.

All in all, I felt like the development or management team and leadership that left when the Sims 3 was finishing was the main reason the previous Sims were so great. I always felt that they knew the community and gave us what we demanded at reasonable prices and it was a win/win... heck, it made EA into the gaming bohemath that they are today.

TLDR
I don't mind being charged for more content but make it reasonable priced and better.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#19 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusannaG
Paradox have been burned, and burned badly, by premature game announcements - so if they announce anything, it's ready for beta.

They announced Imperator: Rome earlier this year at Paradoxcom, but they still have several known secret projects. (One is undoubtedly Victoria 3, but we have no idea as to what the others might be.)


Yup... Exactly!!!!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#20 Old 23rd Jun 2018 at 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by James009
I kind of agree and disagree with this video and it's premise but I don't think he is entirely wrong either. I don't think it is inherently wrong for developers to continue to add paid content to their games because it benefits both the player and the developer and extends the lifecycle of the game. Companies like Paradox are great about this because we get games like Crusader Kings 2 and Stellaris which continue to get better and better as time goes on and result in being a much more complete game by the end of it's life (if they have one). Paradox does charge for those expansions and DLCs, however, they often go on sale, they give free patch updates, you can still play with your friends who have the DLC if you don't, and they aren't $39 expansions or DLCs.

This is where EA is screwing up. They are charging far too much for mediocre content that is unreasonably priced far too high. As a result, gamers are suffering because we're not getting the a lot of content that we expect and we are paying more for less. Meanwhile, Electronic Arts Is also suffering because they are not getting the sales figures or the profits that they expect from such a franchise and they they're likely moving development talent and skills away from the franchise and into other products. They basically need to decide if they want to put the work and investment into these games (like they did with Sims 3) to make them worthwhile and profitable.

All in all, I felt like the development or management team and leadership that left when the Sims 3 was finishing was the main reason the previous Sims were so great. I always felt that they knew the community and gave us what we demanded at reasonable prices and it was a win/win... heck, it made EA into the gaming bohemath that they are today.

TLDR
I don't mind being charged for more content but make it reasonable priced and better.


I agree with you about the paid content and DLC. I personally do not have an issue paying for DLC if it enhances the game and is a quality product. It Also helps if the DLC is not overpriced for what it is offering.

It really is a shame that EA/Maxis has gotten so greedy and slimy with their business tactics that they no longer can produce a quality game.
Field Researcher
#21 Old 6th Jul 2018 at 4:15 PM
Just to get a counter point in here to the posted video, here is a reaction video from Deligracy:



I'm not always agreeing with Deligracy, but she raised some good points here, too.

What I didn't like about Optimus' video was that he didn't really seem to have a good background info about Sims 4. Most of the problems he mentioned, existed in Sims 3, too.
And I totally agree with Deligracy about his tone regarding "casual players".
Instructor
#22 Old 6th Jul 2018 at 6:12 PM
Interesting reaction from Deligracy there - especially at the end where she mentions she feels like corners have been cut in the game (her examples were no elevator animations/building possibilities, no police/firemen/burglars, but we know there's more). I don't think I've seen her be as upfront about her own criticism before, except after My First Pet Stuff was released, but that feeling seemed unanimous amongst the fanbase.
Lab Assistant
#23 Old 7th Jul 2018 at 9:11 AM
With regards to making the sims doesn’t he mean that they re used sims 2 animations for 3?

I disagree with Deligracy were she said the sims 4 base game didn’t have less than the previous games. But then she doesn’t think the issue is about dlc when I think it is. Corners being cut is a separate issue.


I don’t think the term casual player was meant as derogatory, I took it more as a player that doesn’t play other games only the sims. In some cases (Not all!) there are players who can’t see the woods for the trees with EA. One quick visit to the official forums shows that.

Deligracy was always going to defend the game, she’s one of the biggest cheer leaders for this game.
Theorist
#24 Old 7th Jul 2018 at 10:55 AM
She's trying hard to defend it, but he left it open for her to be able to defend her point, so yes, she made really great points on the flaws of his video. The biggest one is not comparing the games. problem is, comparing the games would also be a big flaw, since horde of fans would just pull out an argument: "You can't compare the games, they are all supposed to be different!" which i'm presonally sick of hearing.

Other side, Deligracy's flaws are that she thinks that "the sims players know what they are unstatisfied with". I see tons of them just praising EA and screaming to EA that they will give them their money while screeching for new DLCs before the next one is even released. But really, lots of sims fans have been most casual of the players that indeed play only the sims. It's been like that since the first game. Difference is that now that game is simpler those fans really don't mind, since they really did not use The Sims as a full sandbox game or a tool. To them, Sims 4 provides as much as the previous games with updated graphics, better looking sims and ability to run nicely on their PCs.

To be honest, I also don't see the problem with the DLC model. You'll get the same DLC later on sale, and releasing more DLCs is kinda keeping the game alive. Problem comes from that DLC being entirely same, and even subpar to earlier games. Really, the only way to do this objectively is to perfectly well compare:

A.) Feature scope and feature effectiveness of each DLC and the base games
B.) Overall consistency to the theme
C.) Quality of gameplay mechanics that tie the features of the DLC together into both the core of the game and the overall gameplay experience
D.) Customizability scope of every item/feature

Out of all of these, point C.) is the hardest one to be objectively discussed, that's why it's so hard for people to discuss which of the games is indeed best. You really don't have to compare feature with feature, game with game, one to one. They are indeed very different games and have very different goals. But quality of the product (value) in relation to the price can always be compared objectively.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#25 Old 7th Jul 2018 at 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldbear
I don’t think the term casual player was meant as derogatory, I took it more as a player that doesn’t play other games only the sims.


I don't see how it can possibly mean that, without rewriting the dictionary. And even if we did so, it wouldn't be logical. The more one specialises in playing just one particular game, the LESS likely they are to be casual about it.

BTW, Deligracy is one of the few yibs I bother to watch/listen to. She's not annoyingly sqeechey and does seem to put some thought into what she says.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
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