I need dirt roads and paved roads

[Winterhart]

I am creating the neighborhood where I live. It's out in the country the smallest lots are 3/4 of an acre. My property is an acre and 1/4.
I have used Mootilda's Lot Adjuster (great program you can find it here: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=282409)
to move 6 lots together and overlap them so they look like one big lot. My problem is I need dirt roads and paved roads. Is there any way to do that? Or am I just banging my head on the wall for nothing? Attached is a screen shot. The paved roads with the trees in the middle of them are dirt in lot view and I want them dirt in neighborhood view too.
Thank you for your time.

[JLonier]

I don't know if it's possible or not, but if anyone has seen something like what you're looking for it'll be someone at the WCIF forum linked in my signature. :)

[Winterhart]

I don't know if it's possible or not, but if anyone has seen something like what you're looking for it'll be someone at the WCIF forum linked in my signature. :)

Thanks :up:

[Mootilda]

The neighborhood road information is stored in the NHTR record in the neighborhood package:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=NHTR

If the type of road is stored in this record, it would likely be in the 11 unknown bytes at the end of each road entry. I suppose that you could try modding these 11 bytes, to see whether you can figure out what they mean...

[niol]

Links
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=286308
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=292381

[Rapsheba555]

i suppose someone could make a neighborhood decorative item that is a dirt road that overlays the regular road, but to my knowledge it hasn't been done yet.

[Mootilda]

It's been done for EPs up to Seasons, and the technique is documented in the following post:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=292381

Unfortunately, EA changed something in Seasons and the technique no longer works. Winterhart is trying to find a new technique now.

[Rapsheba555]

oh. It's probably because Maxis needed to make the roads snowy in winter and had to change some linking for newer textures.

[Winterhart]

oh. It's probably because Maxis needed to make the roads snowy in winter and had to change some linking for newer textures.

That makes sense. Thank you.

[niol]

oh. It's probably because Maxis needed to make the roads snowy in winter and had to change some linking for newer textures.

the neighbourhood snowing is at least by part normally done by the neighbourhood shader and others. The snows on objects are done by additional texture maps. I need a re-check by at least a volunteer to confirm if road tile textures are responsible to the snowy look for road tiles. (I'm renovating my HDs and so all of my non-base game copies are gone.)

it makes sense that the neighbourhood textures were made to lay over the lot layer for variable or temporary graphical presentations for "seasons".

But if there's no road tiles for the snowy scene, it may mean EAxis team simply made the lot layer lower than the neighbourhood road layer instead of raising the layer for the snow. And that in turns resulted in what we've seen here.

But, I'm unsure which way they altered such setting.

[Winterhart]

the neighbourhood snowing is at least by part normally done by the neighbourhood shader and others. The snows on objects are done by additional texture maps. I need a re-check by at least a volunteer to confirm if road tile textures are responsible to the snowy look for road tiles. (I'm renovating my HDs and so all of my non-base game copies are gone.)

I'll try to it if you can tell me step by step what I need to do.

[niol]

1. browse to the 3D folder of the Seasons' programme folder,
2. open the packages one by one with simpe to track out which ones are for txtr files.
3. browse around what textures are there apparently related to the road tiles.

and/or use search/find in simpe...
search string as file names
the 2 key strings:
1. road
2. snow

[Winterhart]

1. browse to the 3D folder of the Seasons' programme folder,
2. open the packages one by one with simpe to track out which ones are for txtr files.
3. browse around what textures are there apparently related to the road tiles.

and/or use search/find in simpe...
search string as file names
the 2 key strings:
1. road
2. snow

I opened the Textures package in the 3D folder of Seasons. I found the following files.

15 road textures
5 new road textures
51 lotskirtroad textures

Every one of them has snow in the file name.

Can you tell specifically what you are looking for? If so I can do printscreens and upload them. :)

I also opened the same file in Night Life.

5 road textures
10 lotskirtroad textures

[niol]

Winterhart,

This is already sufficient for our purposes. but it's good to show a snowed road tile in the post for a solid proof.

It seems reasonably EAxis used those snowed road tiles for a snowy neighbourhood and so such a change became necessary. That means the neighbourhood road tile has to lay over the lot road tiles in that game engine without more expensive alterations like adding alpha-transparency on the neighbourhood road tile layer and use transparent snowed tiles over any textures of lower layer order.

I know the ground was not designed to be transparent, but they could have used transparent texture layers to lay over any lower layers including the ground and road tiles.

Anyway, they only do exactly what some simmers requested or they only do what are simplified out of the requests? This has been happening from the start.
Too many details were skipped. lost in extraction :D ...

[Winterhart]

Winterhart,

This is already sufficient for our purposes. but it's good to show a snowed road tile in the post for a solid proof.

It seems reasonably EAxis used those snowed road tiles for a snowy neighbourhood and so such a change became necessary. That means the neighbourhood road tile has to lay over the lot road tiles in that game engine without more expensive alterations like adding alpha-transparency on the neighbourhood road tile layer and use transparent snowed tiles over any textures of lower layer order.

I know the ground was not designed to be transparent, but they could have used transparent texture layers to lay over any lower layers including the ground and road tiles.

Anyway, they only do exactly what some simmers requested or they only do what are simplified out of the requests? This has been happening from the start.
Too many details were skipped. lost in extraction :D ...

Niol,
Maybe I am not understanding or I did not communicate clearly. There is no snow on the road tiles. What I meant to communicate is that the textures each have "snow" in the texture name. See screenshot.

So what if anything can we do now? I thought about replacing the texture file is Seasons with the one in NightLife. I would also have to modify the CarryForward.sgfiles.file so that Bon Voyage would run the way I want. Does that sound like something that could work? I am not very familiar with SimPe I have managed to do recolors with step by step tutorial. And I was able to follow Phaenoh's instructions to modify the catalog sorts. Beyond that I have no clue :report: but I would like to learn more.

Thank you all for your help.

[niol]

Compare them with the non-snowy ones, and may realise the white boundary between the pedestrian an the road is white and the normal colour is greenish or others.
lol, that's how EAxis made road "snowy" :lol: ...

Snow on road tiles or objects are regarded as stationary snows, and so they need only a texture maps like txtr and/or lifo files.

Should you see some whitish dots on them, that should be done by the shaders for the dynamic shading of snowing.

The thing is the whole set of road tile will be automatically switched to the snowy set when the neighbourhood has "winter" and "snow".
The same for the desert, european road, concrete, and so forth.

Replacing the txtr files won't get the custom lot road to show up in the neighbourhood after EP5 or later is installed.

I don't know where the setting for this switching as well as such layer definition(s) be at. but, I asume it may be in the exe which we can't legally alter.
But, I'm unsure if it can happen in some shaders like the neighbourhood shader.
It takes some more effort to track if they have those definitions and if they're sufficient for any alteration related to this quest.

if the lot road layer is higher than the neighbourhood road layer, then the road will have what you paint on your lot even in the snowy sims time..., but is that what you really want ultimately if your quest be accomplishable?

[Winterhart]

if the lot road layer is higher than the neighbourhood road layer, then the road will have what you paint on your lot even in the snowy sims time..., but is that what you really want ultimately if your quest be accomplishable?

Anything that gets me my custom dirt roads. I bought Seasons specifically to use some custom plants that only work with that EP. I do not care about snow. If I could have altered the the custom content I would have, however that is not allowed by it's creator. Plus I would have no clue how to do it.

Could we make custom lots in SimPE with the road layer higher, or maybe the whole lot?
I do not know what is possible and what is not.

Thank you for your time.

Winterhart

[Mootilda]

The neighborhood terrain is stored in a 2D array in the neighborhood package; in ABCB5DA4 / NHTG / Neighborhood terrain geometry:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=NHTG
One floating point number for the elevation of each neighborhood vertex.

The roads themselves are stored in the "roads" list in the neighborhood package; in ABD0DC63 / NHTR / Neighborhood terrain:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=NHTR

There is an elevation (Z) value in each road entry, but I have personally had some difficulties with roads where I modified this value. See my work with HoodReplace:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1924508#post1924508

The lot terrain is stored in the lot package; in one layer of 2A51171B /3ARY / 3D Array Instance 1:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=3D_Array
Again, one floating point number for the elevation of each vertex on the lot.

To determine which layer of the 3D Array contains the ground level (and thus the road), you need to look at the minimum level stored in 0A284D0B / WGRA / Wall graph:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=WGRA

When changing elevations on a lot, I found that it's important to be sure to change the water level stored in 6B943B43 / 2DARY / 2D Array:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=2ARY
This will help to avoid flooded roads. Again, one floating point number for the elevation of the water for each vertex on the lot.

Unfortunately, the game will change the level of the neighborhood terrain to match the lot terrain the first time that you save your lot, so this may only be a temporary solution.

Possible workarounds:
1) Have the road on the lot "hover" above the ground level, so that the road on the lot is always higher than the road in the neighborhood (which is always at ground level).

You might be able to achieve this by putting the pseudo-road tiles on the level above ground level, and then adjusting that level down as far as possible. I've seen a tutorial for setting the difference between two levels at 1 click, which should be sufficient. If you can get the "hover" level low enough, it may not even affect the vehicle animations too badly.

2) Set the elevation of the road at every major vertex of the lot to 0, set the elevation of the rest of the road vertices to something > 0. This might fool the neighborhood into thinking that the road on the lot is at a relative elevation of 0, while keeping the majority of the road tiles higher than that.

Have you tried my suggested workaround of changing the lot so that the lot and neighborhood roads never overlap? I continue to hold out hope for this relatively simple solution.

[Winterhart]

Just a thought

[niol]

OK, after my fixing my neighbourhood shader mods, I'll check if there're settings in it and the lotskirt shader since they're kinda file-related. :lol:

[Mootilda]

I tried the following test:

1) Create a lot
2) Place a pseudo-road using dirt floor tiles and a concrete sidewalk on the left side of the lot
3) Place a pseudo-road using dirt ground cover and a concrete sidewalk on the right side of the lot
4) Save the lot and exit to the neighborhood.

Both sides of the lot look like dirt roads with sidewalks to me. Checked neighborhood view in base game and with all EPs. For non-corner lots, you'd probably want to remove the paved road using the LotAdjuster. To make the pseudo-roads work correctly, you'd need to use the Portal Revealer.

I believe that this might be a simple solution to your request.

I was going to try the following test:
1) Create a lot
2) Place pseudo-road on 2nd floor
3) Change elevation of pseudo-road to 1 (road is usually at ground level elevation of 0).

But I can't see anything obviously wrong with the other technique, so I'll wait to hear feedback instead.

[Winterhart]

I tried the following test:

1) Create a lot
2) Place a pseudo-road using dirt floor tiles and a concrete sidewalk on the left side of the lot
3) Place a pseudo-road using dirt ground cover and a concrete sidewalk on the right side of the lot
4) Save the lot and exit to the neighborhood.

Both sides of the lot look like dirt roads with sidewalks to me. Checked neighborhood view in base game and with all EPs. For non-corner lots, you'd probably want to remove the paved road using the LotAdjuster. To make the pseudo-roads work correctly, you'd need to use the Portal Revealer.

I believe that this might be a simple solution to your request.

I was going to try the following test:
1) Create a lot
2) Place pseudo-road on 2nd floor
3) Change elevation of pseudo-road to 1 (road is usually at ground level elevation of 0).

But I can't see anything obviously wrong with the other technique, so I'll wait to hear feedback instead.

Thank you.

I tried the first solution in the base game. I'll take your word that it works in the EP's. It does work but things look a little fuzzy in neighborhood view.
I not sure how to do the second one. This is what I did so far.

1) Created a lot

2) Put up a small rectangle of walls. (that's the only way to get to 2nd floor) I don't know if this is what you meant.

3) Put down pseudo-road I don't know how to change the elevation of the road.


Thank you again.

[Mootilda]

The pseudo-road looks more fuzzy than when you were using the "over the road" technique? How odd... I wonder whether you were actually seeing some portion of the neighborhood road underneath the lot road texture, which might define the edges more clearly? I don't suppose that you have a picture of each technique (from the neighborhood view), so that I can try to figure out what the difference might be?

When you put a pseudo-road on the floor above the real road, can you see the pseudo-road in the neighborhood view in EPs from Seasons on? If not, there's no use in trying to adjust the elevation of the road. If so, I'll try to find that tutorial on getting a 1-click difference between two levels.

Update:
Here it is. A tutorial on how to create walls which are 0 clicks, 1 click, 2 clicks or 3 clicks:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=190663

Of course, you don't actually want walls... you just want to create a level which is 1 click above the road to contain the pseudo-road tiles, so that they will appear to overwrite the default neighborhood road tiles.

More Thoughts:
It probably makes sense to move the pedestrian and vehicle portals to the second (pseudo-road) level. This would avoid the following potential issues:
- the pseudo-road interferring with the use of the primary road
- vehicles and sims "sinking" 1-click deep into the pseudo-road because they are actually using the primary road

You may need to have the pseudo-road level go down to 0 at some point, so that sims can get off of the road; they may not be willing to walk off a 1-click "cliff". Although the space between the road and the sidewalk seems like an obvious place for such a slope, I believe that the game really prefers to have the road and sidewalks at the same level. So, I would suggest that you put the slope on the unbuildable tile on the "house" side of the sidewalk.

[niol]

it's already in my signature if you meant the grid point tutorial :D .

Build: Lot: Wall size control: Grid Point Modding
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=276870


This is for my own convenience, may ignore this little part :P .
How to create a new lot in Sims Castaway Stories
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=275135



Winterhart,

either using LA to unlock the road or using the cheat "moveobjects on" or the unlocktile cheat, with the raising elevation tool, raisie the road by 1 or 2 clicks.
May download Inge's portal revealer to ensure the portals are not sunken. If so, may just simply pick them up and place them back at the same grids.


I'm unsure this may help coz graphical layer hierarchy is normally more critical than geometric order in the present TS2 graphics. In that rationale, as long as the graphical layer(s) of the neighbourhood road tiles are completely higher than that/those of the lot imposter, even if the lot road is a basin, the neighourhood road can still cover that part up..
May try it though, at least it doesn't harm and may work out. :)


I'm pulling my hair to fix the shader mods I did coz I couldn't find my template file which has all the visual assistance I made to read the codes (after my clean-up on an annother HD), so it's gonna be another day before I can take a look on the related shaders.

[Mootilda]

Raising the road will likely *not* produce the correct result, since the game will raise the neighborhood terrain to match the new lot elevation as soon as the lot is saved... which should make the game display the neighborhood road texture again. Of course, it's worth a try just because it's simple. I *prefer* simple solutions... that's why I like the "no overlapping roads" technique above.

For the technique where we are trying to ensure that the lot texture gets preference by having it on a second level above the neighborhood road:

I confirmed that the lot texture will appear to overwrite the default neighborhood road texture in Seasons on, if the pseudo-road is on a level which is 1-click above the real road. As well, I confirmed that you can still see a bit of the real road underneath... you may be able to fix this by removing the real road from the lot.

Note that snow can obscure the pseudo-road in the neighborhood view; this doesn't happen with the real neighborhood roads.

I'm testing the vehicle and pedestrian interactions now.

Update:
This technique definitely has more problems than my "no overlap" technique...

The car can leave the driveway, but the "drive out" animation doesn't happen, probably because the pseudo-road is in the way.

With the portals on the real road, the delivery person doesn't come at all.

With the portals moved up to the pseudo-road, the delivery person seems to be confused about how to get off the pseudo-road because of the 1-click "cliff". I'm putting in a ramp now (set relative elevation to 0) to see whether that resolves the issue...

Another Update:
Nope, the delivery person still seems to be unable to get off the road, even with a ramp.

OK, this technique will not work. Looks like sims need stairs to move from one level to another, even when they are at 0 elevation in relation to each other.

So far, the only working technique is to avoid overlapping the pseudo-road on the lot with the neighborhood road.

However, I haven't tried raising the road by 1-click... I'm wary of this technique, because the game always has the road at a relative elevation of 0. You may find that the lot starts to act oddly if you break this rule.

[Winterhart]

[QUOTE=Mootilda]The pseudo-road looks more fuzzy than when you were using the "over the road" technique?

Oops, it's fuzzy either way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you put a pseudo-road on the floor above the real road, can you see the pseudo-road in the neighborhood view in EPs from Seasons on? If not, there's no use in trying to adjust the elevation of the road. If so, I'll try to find that tutorial on getting a 1-click difference between two levels.

I'm not sure I understood how to put a road a floor above. Could you double check the steps that I did in my last post?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
One more thing. In a previous post you said, If removing the road (with lot adjuster?) works, it might lead us to a new solution for your problem - one which might work with later EPs.

How exactly do you remove a road with LotAdjuster? The only way I know to remove a road is with moveobjects deleting the tiles. Is there another way. If so, that might be the solution.

Thank you for your time

[Mootilda]

Oops, it's fuzzy either way.Then, it sounds like this is the technique to use.

I'm not sure I understood how to put a road a floor above. Could you double check the steps that I did in my last post?Yes, it sounds like you followed the correct steps. After placing the floor tiles, you can remove the (unnecessary) walls. However, this is no longer relevant, since I've confirmed that the technique doesn't produce a working pseudo-road... sims can't overcome the "cliff", even when the two levels are at the same elevation.

How exactly do you remove a road with LotAdjuster? The only way I know to remove a road is with moveobjects deleting the tiles. Is there another way. If so, that might be the solution.In the LotAdjuster advanced options, check "add and remove roads". The road checkboxes beside the numeric up-down controls will become enabled. Uncheck the checkbox for the road that you want to remove. You should also be able to shrink on that side at the same time.

http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/5/8/9/2/5/2/MTS2_Mootilda_749355_CreateACornerLot.JPG

I believe that this technique should work for all EPs. Good luck and let me know if you need any further help.

[Winterhart]

Then, it sounds like this is the technique to use.

Yes, it sounds like you followed the correct steps. After placing the floor tiles, you can remove the (unnecessary) walls. However, this is no longer relevant, since I've confirmed that the technique doesn't produce a working pseudo-road... sims can't overcome the "cliff", even when the two levels are at the same elevation.


But it does make a pseudo road visible in neighborhood view? If so is it fuzzy or nice and clear? I don't it to be a working road. I use "walk to lot" in Bon Voyage. I know this may sound really picky but I only need one dirt road visible in the neighborhood.

Thank you for your time

[Mootilda]

Yes, the pseudo-road is visible in the neighborhood view, when running all EPs. Sorry, I don't have a picture and I changed the lot back when I realized that the 1-click up pseudo-road caused problems with vehicle traffic. I was able to see a tiny bit of the regular road at the edges of the pseudo-road, which might make the road seem less "fussy"... try it yourself and see what you think.

Check out my previous post for a link to the tutorial on how to make a 1-click wall.

[Winterhart]

Thank you

[niol]

strcmp results by wiki about differences between the EP4 and EP5 versions of the neighbourhood and lotskirt shaders, I found no differences related to "layer" values. The latter shader has only an additional function with same layer value as its counterpart, so it doesn't matter at all.

Neighborhoodswvs shader had no change at all between these 2 EPs.

but anyway, the quotes are to hold the extracted layer infos



seti gridLayer 3 # since EP0
seti gridLayer 5 # since EP2
seti gridLayer 13 # since EP4
seti floorLayer 0 # since EP0
seti floorLayer -4 # since EP2


seti previewLayer 0 # -28

FloorShaders()
shader -layer $floorLayer

FixedFunctionFloorShader()
shader -layer $floorLayer

# gridMaterial -- composites the alpha grid texture over the normal floor texture
# NOTE: In order to guarantee this is drawn on top of the normal floor tile textures, the layer has to be higher than that for the normal floor textures.

TileGridMaterial()
shader -layer $gridLayer

# inverseGridMaterial -- composites the inverse of the alpha grid texture over the normal floor texture
# NOTE: In order to guarantee this is drawn on top of the normal floor tile textures, the layer has to be higher than that for the normal floor textures.

define InverseTileGridMaterial()
#trace "$currentMaterialName inverse tile grid material"
shader -layer $gridLayer

TileLocalGridMaterial()
# 7/26/04 This material should only be reinstated if the cursor moves a part that causes visible damage to be updated with respect to where it is moved. Marking all the terrain tiles with this modifiedEachFrameHint is too slow. For now this material is disabled.
shader -layer $gridLayer

ffDepthOffset 2 # above the shadow/overlay layer.

tileShaderMayLevel_0
addParam scLayer $previewLayer

tileShaderMayNotLevel_0
addParam scLayer $previewLayer

materialDefinition tileShaderMayLevel_0
setDefinition SolidColorMaterial
addParam scLayer $previewLayer
addParam color (0,1,0)
end

materialDefinition tileShaderMayNotLevel_0
setDefinition SolidColorMaterial
addParam scLayer $previewLayer
addParam color (1,0,0)
end

materialDefinition tileShaderMayLevel_0_
setDefinition SolidColorMaterial
addParam scLayer $previewLayer
addParam depthOffset 2
addParam color (0,1,0)
end

materialDefinition tileShaderMayNotLevel_0_
setDefinition SolidColorMaterial
addParam scLayer $previewLayer
addParam depthOffset 2
addParam color (1,0,0)
end

materialDefinition floor_oak_seethrough
setDefinition FloorReflective
addParam stdMatLayer 2
addParam stdMatBaseTextureName floor-oak
addParam reflectStrength .3
end

materialDefinition floor_mountainFogTile
setDefinition FloorReflective
addParam stdMatLayer 2
addParam stdMatBaseTextureName floor-mountainFogTile
addParam reflectStrength .1
end





PixelShaderFloorsWithShadowMapping()
shader -layer $floorLayer

DX9GaussianFilterShadowMap()
# render this at the end
shader -layer +999

PixelShaderFloors(normalMapping)
shader -layer $floorLayer




# NOTE: because imposters are generated by
# rendering the lot to textures, all imposter
# textures effectively have pre-multiplied alpha.

#layer ID of neighborhood terrain canvas
seti nhoodCanvasLayer -8

ImposterDualPackedSliceMaterial()
shader -layer (($stdMatLayer * 8))

ImposterTerrainMaterial()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 5)* 8)

ImposterWallMaterial()
shader -layer ($stdMatLayer * 8)

ImposterRoofMaterial()
shader -layer ($stdMatLayer * 8)




seti lotSkirtLayer -6


LotSkirtMaterialDefinitionFF()
shader -layer ($lotSkirtLayer * 8)


LotSkirtMaterialDefinitionVSPS1()
shader -layer ($lotSkirtLayer * 8)
### the added def from EP4 to EP5


LotSkirtRoadMaterialDefinition()
shader -layer ($lotSkirtLayer * 8)

LotSkirtBoundaryClipMaterial()
shader -layer (($lotSkirtLayer - 1) * 8)





# layers
# normal shadows are layer 2 (after opaques), tree shadows are moved to -2 to make them
# render to the first buffer. Tree shadows (-2) do not show up on fields (7).
seti nhoodWaterLayer 1
seti nhoodCanvasLayer -8
seti nhoodTreeShadowLayer -2


NeighborhoodCanvas()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer) * 8)

NeighborhoodCanvasStraddle()
# Used for those triangles in the canvas which are partially under water.
# material for reflection camera
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer) * 8)
#material for standard camera
#shader -layer (-128)
shader -layer (-128)
NeighborhoodWaterTerrain()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 2) * 8)

NeighborhoodTerrainPaintShader()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 1) * 8)

NeighborhoodWater()
shader -layer $nhoodWaterLayer
shader -layer $nhoodWaterLayer
shader -layer $nhoodWaterLayer
shader -layer ($nhoodWaterLayer)
#<shader -layer ($nhoodWaterLayer)

# The layer ID for this should be lower than "nhoodWaterLayer" Id because we want the farther side of the water box should be
# drawn as well.
# the layer ID of any under-water objects (so
NeighborhoodWaterEdge()
shader -layer (($nhoodWaterLayer - 1) * 8)

NeighborhoodTerrainEdge()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 13) * 8)

NHoodTerrainLighting()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 3) * 8)

NHoodTerrainHighlightMaterial()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 9) * 8)

NHoodTerrainOutlineHighlightMaterial()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 10) * 8)

PartiallyUnderWaterMaterial()
UnderWaterShadingMaterial()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 4) * 8)

ImposterArrowMaterial()
shader -layer (($nhoodCanvasLayer + 11) * 8)

NeighborhoodTreeGUOBMaterial()
shader -layer $nhoodTreeShadowLayer

NeighborhoodBuildingMaterial()
shader -layer 0

# make tree shadows render to an opaque (but blended layer) so they drop into the static layer
# this overrides the texture name and alpha blend level.
# rectangular shadows are used by the car shadows, until can pass the existing texture name onto the material,
# leave those shadows as transparent layer 7 that will get alpha sorted, etc.

materialDefinition plesiosaur_skin_material
materialDefinition neighborhood_bouyside_material
# setDefinition StandardMaterial
setDefinition PartiallyUnderWaterMaterial
# these are mvoing objects, need to be at or above layer 0
addParam nhoodCanvasLayer -4

LotSkirtWater()
shader -layer $nhoodWaterLayer

LotSkirtWaterNoReflection()
shader -layer ($nhoodWaterLayer)




seti nhoodRoadLayer -1

NHoodRoadMaterialDef()
shader -layer ($nhoodRoadLayer * 8)




seti terrainMatLayer -2


TerrainCanvasShader()
shader -layer (($terrainMatLayer - 3) * 8)

TerrainPaintShaderVS_PS()
shader -layer (($terrainMatLayer - 2) * 8)

TerrainPaintShader(addDetail)
shader -layer (($terrainMatLayer - 2) * 8)

TerrainLighting()
shader -layer (($terrainMatLayer - 1) * 8)

TerrainToolThumbnail()
shader -layer ($terrainMatLayer * 8)

TerrainWaterShader(withBumpMap)
shader -layer 1

TerrainWaterFrozen()
shader -layer 1

TerrainSnowShader()
TerrainSnowFF()
shader -layer 0
TerrainSnow()
shader -layer 1

XRayCursorMaterial()
shader -layer (0)

LightSnow()
shader -layer (-1)

LightSnow()
shader -layer (-1)
#if the above shader fails for some reason
shader -layer (-1)

GeneralSnowMaterialFF()
shader -layer ($stdMatLayer)

puddle_liquid_rain
setDefinition GeneralReflectiveMaterial
addParam stdMatLayer 0
addParam stdMatAddLayer -10

puddle_liquid_blue
setDefinition GeneralReflectiveMaterial
addParam stdMatLayer 0
addParam stdMatAddLayer -10



Even if the concerned layer values are not stored in these shaders, it never means they cannot be stored in yet other shaders.

I'm gonna check the floor and related shaders later... since road tiles can be layered by them too.

added:
It seems only the value of the floor layer has been changed significantly and relevantly to our quest. However, the change started from EP2.
It's not saying the others are irrelevant, but they're background infos to show how these materials for lots and neighbourhood and some of their components show up for what we see eventually.

It's not automatically saying that the change in floor tile layer must be the answer, and it takes probably some tests to confirm. I need at least 2-3 volunteers with game copies of at least up to EP2, 3, 4, 5 separately to try a testing mod I'll post later. One can use Numenor's AGS or BGS
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=250555
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=107015


refs:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderFloor
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderFloorPS
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderImposters
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderLotskirt
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderNeighborhood
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderNeighborhoodroads
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Talk:ShaderTerrain

[niol]

Winterhart,

can you tell me which game versions exactly you used to draw the conclusion that the change happened between EP4 and EP5? or actually you meant " with EP5, differences on the presentation were noticed"?

[niol]

I need at least 2-3 volunteers with game copies of at least up to EP2 or any higher separately to try to follow Winterhart's approach to make lot road appear in the neighbourhood view. One can use Numenor's AGS or BGS
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=250555
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=107015

I'm unsure from which game version the change started, but based on the rationale relying on the floorlayer value in floor shader.

Thus, I've made 2 versions. one is for EPs 2 and 3 while the another one is for all the upper. Appropriately use either version each time.
download here in this post (http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost.php?p=1979755&postcount=4)


There's no difference between EP1 and the base game for this shader, so there's no test on EP1 or further test on the base game coz it has no problem for this purpose.

[Mootilda]

I need at least 2-3 volunteers with game copies of at least up to EP2 or any higher separately to try to follow Winterhart's approach to make lot road appear in the neighbourhood view.I'm going to opt out of this one. I've found and tested a fairly simple technique which I find satisfactory (pseudo-road on lot which doesn't overlap neighborhood road) and I don't really understand enough about what you're doing with the textures to be very helpful. I suppose that I should write up a quick tutorial before I forget.

[Winterhart]

I'm unsure from which game version the change started, but based on the rationale relying on the floorlayer value in floor shader.

The change started in Seasons.

Thank you for your continued work on this. I really appreciate it. :P

[niol]

Since the "pseudo-road on lot" works well, I can save further effort on this. :)

[Mootilda]

Actually, it sounds like Winterhart would prefer a change to the textures in the neighborhood view, since my technique appears somewhat "fuzzy" in the neighborhood view.

If you feel like you're on to something good, then it may be worth working on. However, if you feel like you've hit a brick wall, then it's probably because the change occurs inside the game EXE and there's really nothing else that can be done.

Besides, aren't real dirt roads sort of "fuzzy"? :)

[niol]

Actually, it sounds like Winterhart would prefer a change to the textures in the neighborhood view, since my technique appears somewhat "fuzzy" in the neighborhood view.

If you feel like you're on to something good, then it may be worth working on. However, if you feel like you've hit a brick wall, then it's probably because the change occurs inside the game EXE and there's really nothing else that can be done.

Besides, aren't real dirt roads sort of "fuzzy"? :)

if Winterhart is eager enough, one can try default replacements on all the neighbourhood roads.

true, if the mod I made doesn't work, the definition may be in other more primitive shaders or other files and the worst the exe file which we can't help legally. so, chances are, one has to wait for or find someone else to help see if it's accomplishable.

Dirt roads are normally fuzzy, yet that kind of fuzziness may not be Winterhart's cup of tea unfortunately.

[Winterhart]

if Winterhart is eager enough, one can try default replacements on all the neighbourhood roads.

Winterhart (she by the way) is very eager but lacks the knowledge or ability. Stev84's country roads mod is great but only it changes it all to dirt and then I have the same problem getting paved roads where I want them.

Dirt roads are normally fuzzy, yet that kind of fuzziness may not be Winterhart's cup of tea unfortunately.

I don't care much for tea either :rofl: but I can learn to live with it.

can you tell me which game versions exactly you used to draw the conclusion that the change happened between EP4 and EP5? or actually you meant " with EP5, differences on the presentation were noticed"?

I have Base Game, Night Life, OFB, Seasons and Bon Voyage. I tested them in the following combinations.

1. All of them together.
2. each one separately.
3. Base Game + Nightlife + OFB
4. Base Game + Seasons only
5. Base Game + Bon Voyage only



I need at least 2-3 volunteers with game copies of at least up to EP2, 3, 4, 5 separately to try a testing mod I'll post later. One can use Numenor's AGS or BGS


I just downloaded your your testing mods. I assume they just go in my downloads folder. I'll try them out and let you know what happens.
:new:
I put each of them in the correct download folders. Neither one seemed to have any effect in the game.


Do you want me to package the test lots and post them for you?

Change of topic sort of here. I found V1nd1care's tutorial on how to make 0,1,2, or 3 click walls. My problem is I don't know how to use CFE and his tutorial assumes that you do.

Is there a step by step with pictures tutorial for CFE?

I really appreciate all the time and effort everyone is putting into this for me. :lovestruc

[Mootilda]

I have Base Game, Night Life, OFB, Seasons and Bon Voyage.So, it's possible that the change occurred in Pets, rather than in Seasons. Does that help, niol?

Is there a step by step with pictures tutorial for CFE?I think that MikeInside has some of the best tutorials for CFE:
http://mikeinside.modthesims2.com/

Might want to start with "Simple half-walls" in the "Advanced Building" area.

[Winterhart]

So, it's possible that the change occurred in Pets, rather than in Seasons.

This sounds like an excuse for me to go buy Pets just to see. If it is in Pets could the solution be in the carryforward files in from Pets to Seasons? I don't know if that's the right name for the file and I couldn't find it again just now in SimPE.

[Mootilda]

This sounds like an excuse for me to go buy Pets just to see.Oh, no. You don't have to go that far. If it's just a question of Pets vs Seasons, I can certainly run that one test. I just didn't want to be fooling around with a lot of different tests, trying to figure out exactly where the change occurred.

However, I believe that niol can do the same kind of diff that he did before, and determine whether anything useful changed between Pets and Seasons.

I honestly don't know enough about textures and shaders to be helpful in interpreting the diffs, or in suggesting a fix in this area. My specialty is really lot files.

Note: niol will be unavailable for a little while. Why don't you fool around with CFE while you're waiting for a response?

[niol]

Winterhart (she by the way) is very eager but lacks the knowledge or ability. Stev84's country roads mod is great but only it changes it all to dirt and then I have the same problem getting paved roads where I want them.
...
I don't care much for tea either :rofl: but I can learn to live with it.

Now, if you're a mature adult, may I ask you out for a tea-time? :lovestruc



I have Base Game, Night Life, OFB, Seasons and Bon Voyage. I tested them in the following combinations.

1. All of them together.
2. each one separately.
3. Base Game + Nightlife + OFB
4. Base Game + Seasons only
5. Base Game + Bon Voyage only


So, it's possible that the change occurred in Pets, rather than in Seasons. Does that help, niol?

This sounds like an excuse for me to go buy Pets just to see. If it is in Pets could the solution be in the carryforward files in from Pets to Seasons? I don't know if that's the right name for the file and I couldn't find it again just now in SimPE.
Maybe, it's just that I got confused with what I found and what I read.
At least, this can really narrow down the scope with higher certainty. :)
And as Mootilda said, this can reduce the amount of tests.

In this case, I can only pinpont at the graphical layer concept coz it seems it makes the most sense to me. I'm aware that the setting can be at somewhere else.
1. An opaque higher layer will be drawn on the screen completely blocking any lower layers.
2. However with alph-transparency, the values of the pixels from higher and lower layers will be "blended"/"averaged"/"mixed".
3. There can be >1 way to "blend"/"avaerage"/"mix".
4. may just do simple addition maths to know which layer get drawn (solely or more or first) in the the area(s) defined by the 2D lines of 3D meshes (the visual illusion of a sense of 3D by means of dynamic 2D lining)
5. in TS2. normally, a horizontal storey layer (as seen in build tool mode, the storey button at the most lefty side of a normally presented game on the screen) will be a larger/outter layer nest than the groups of vertical plain (parallel-able to the screen) layers based on the distance from the main camera (the view point of the simulated observer, presumably the users, us). This has something to do with basic physic optical, simple psychology for the human eyes, some geometry maths, etc.



I just downloaded your your testing mods. I assume they just go in my downloads folder. I'll try them out and let you know what happens.


Thus, I've made 2 versions. one is for EPs 2 and 3 while the another one is for all the upper. Appropriately use either version each time.
download here in this post (http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost.php?p=1979755&postcount=4)

There's no difference between EP1 and the base game for this shader, so there's no test on EP1 or further test on the base game coz it has no problem for this purpose.




Do you want me to package the test lots and post them for you?

Maybe also with the neighbourhood file with a game version label.



Change of topic sort of here. I found V1nd1care's tutorial on how to make 0,1,2, or 3 click walls. My problem is I don't know how to use CFE and his tutorial assumes that you do.

Is there a step by step with pictures tutorial for CFE?

For additional delights,
http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=27882&asset_type=story&user_id=197655
http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=27877&asset_type=story&user_id=197655

[Winterhart]

Now, if you're a mature adult, may I ask you out for a tea-time? :lovestruc

Are you flirting with me dear?
You might be surprise at just how "mature" I am. I might have children older than you. :lol:


Maybe also with the neighbourhood file with a game version label.


Shader Test Steps

Created 2 Mini Games using Numenor's AGS. one for NL+OFB and one for SSN+BV. Used the same following steps for each version.

1.Created 2x2 lot
2.Entered lot and place a tree on it.
3.Saved lot and exited game.
4.Ran LA Version 1.1.1 and expanded the lot over the road by 1
5.Re-entered lot and removed tree.
6.Activated moveobjects on cheat
7.Put down Composite Ground Cover $4 over road tiles.
8.Exited lot to view result.
9.Packaged lot for niol

Used the same process to test Terrain Paint by changing step # 7 to remove road tiles and using Park Bark $1.

I further tested commercial lots in the same way.

There were no unexpected results for NL+OFB. The roads show up in the neighborhood view with no problem other than being fuzzy.But as I said I'll learn to live with that.

Sorry to say there were no unexpected results for SSN+BV. The roads did not show up in neighborhood view.

I have packaged the lots and copied the neighborhood files into the rar file. I hope they help.

I am probably only going to be posting once a day for awhile. My husband is feeling neglected. :giggler:

[niol]

Are you flirting with me dear?
You might be surprise at just how "mature" I am. I might have children older than you. :lol:

...

I am probably only going to be posting once a day for awhile. My husband is feeling neglected. :giggler:

lol, you apparently don't know I'm perverted for ladies more mature :P ...
surely, why not having a 3-some tea-time :D ?
this way your husband won't feel neglected at the same time... :deal: :lol:



Shader Test Steps

Created 2 Mini Games using Numenor's AGS. one for NL+OFB and one for SSN+BV. Used the same following steps for each version.

1.Created 2x2 lot
2.Entered lot and place a tree on it.
3.Saved lot and exited game.
4.Ran LA Version 1.1.1 and expanded the lot over the road by 1
5.Re-entered lot and removed tree.
6.Activated moveobjects on cheat
7.Put down Composite Ground Cover $4 over road tiles.
8.Exited lot to view result.
9.Packaged lot for niol

Used the same process to test Terrain Paint by changing step # 7 to remove road tiles and using Park Bark $1.

I further tested commercial lots in the same way.

There were no unexpected results for NL+OFB. The roads show up in the neighborhood view with no problem other than being fuzzy.But as I said I'll learn to live with that.

Sorry to say there were no unexpected results for SSN+BV. The roads did not show up in neighborhood view.

I have packaged the lots and copied the neighborhood files into the rar file. I hope they help.


gonna have to dig some other shaders and re-analyse more on the listed shaders to eliminate their sufficient relevancy.

[Mootilda]

Has anyone made any more progress on this issue?

Winterhart, it would be nice if you could create a tutorial for your technique "How to create a very-large lot by breaking it into smaller sections". I am often asked about how to create lots which are larger than the 6x6 limit and I'd love to be able to point them to a detailed tutorial with pictures. For example, here is someone who may be interested in your technique:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1988041#post1988041

It seems that your technique might solve both of her problems:
- very large lots
- oddly shaped lots

[Winterhart]

[QUOTE=Mootilda]
Winterhart, it would be nice if you could create a tutorial for your technique "How to create a very-large lot by breaking it into smaller sections".
[\quote]
:blink: Oh dear, that means I'll have to get ........ORGANIZED and really do something :!: Thank you. Maybe I will build my house and use it for the tutorial.
I have already started on the lot roads do you think I should combine the lot roads and large lots? I get back to work on it.

[Mootilda]

I have already started on the lot roads do you think I should combine the lot roads and large lots?In general, I think that these would be better as two separate tutorials, but I'd definitely prefer to see them combined than to see no tutorials at all.

I can easily see people who want single lots with different roads, or multiple lots with standard roads. If you decide to combine the two tutorials, perhaps you could point out which steps are required for the two different techniques?

[Winterhart]

2 it is. :)

[niol]

not much from my end, a search with "layer" thru other shaders got me nowhere close to the ones already listed here.

[Rapsheba555]

if i could make a suggestion...what about the way rugs work? You know how if you place a rug on a sloped piece of ground, it'll flatten itself to the ground, not stay level? Is there any way to apply this to a neighborhood object and accomplish your goal that way? The rug goes under the snow texture on a lot, so if you could figure out how to apply the rug's basic characteristics to a hood object, it should go under the snow there too, assuming that snow works the same way in nhood as on a lot.

This probably wouldn't work, but it just sorta appeared to me. :)

[niol]

if rugs can appear in the neighbourhood, this can be a try.
If not, my add the lod90 scenegraphic counterpart into a recolour like how plants are made to appear in the neighbourhood.