transgender marriages

[Pax]

I've been hearing a lot of fuss from all sides about gay marriage. So two cisgender men get married or two cisgender women get married, terrif. But what about the gender benders? How do you categorize us and the legality of us gettin' hitched? Kind of pickles the cucmber on the idea that sex matters when marrying people. So...what then? What kinds of marriages do these equal?

cisgender man + transgender man = gay? straight? what??
transgender man + transgender woman = straight? who?! huh?
genderqueer + genderqueer = :|

Is it legal, is it illegal, does it matter? (Spoiler: no.) Thought on this please.

[HystericalParoxysm]

I'd imagine the legality varies wildly from place to place. I know many places in the US are allowing legal "sex changes" (i.e. you can be recognized by the government as your new gender) under certain circumstances, so I'd assume at that point whatever you are legally then dictates who you can marry, depending on your state. I -think- most states that recognize sex changes require some proof of surgery, which seems pretty silly to me since one may have good reasons not to go that route (money, scarring, religious reasons, health reasons, etc.) but I'm not sure on that.

IMO... whatever - I don't care who you marry, as long as you're consenting adults. I don't have a problem with gay marriage, trans marriage, poly marriage, or any combination really. If it's what you want and it makes you happy, go for it, and I wish you happiness.

It doesn't affect me so even if I did think it was ishy/wrong/whatever (which I don't) I wouldn't have any right to tell you that you couldn't - or any right to pass laws telling you that you couldn't. Whatever your marriage looks like has no bearing on mine - if you want to have a trans gay poly S&M D/s marriage, that in no way changes, erodes, or affects even in the slightest my very traditional cisgender m/f monogamous breeder marriage. :luff: And anyone who thinks it does has issues they're denying to themselves.

[Pax]

How are states going to regulate marriages of people who's genitals/appreance doesn't fit the bi-gendered mold? I.e. genderqueers, non-op transpeople. And intersex people, what about them?

And yeah, I think every state requires proof of genital reassignment surgery in order to get one's sex legally changed on paper. Which is barbaric, because a) the feds can piss off, my genitals are my business b) not everyone can afford/wants to get sex reassignment surgery downstairs. It's dangerous and often is botched.

[HystericalParoxysm]

I think the answer to that is simple: don't regulate it. If two people want to get married, let 'em. Who cares what they've got under their skirt?

And... yeah, what you said about the surgery. As I understand it, it's a risky business even if you can afford it and get a good doctor, especially ftm. Why someone has to go under the knife to "prove" that they're the another gender, I don't know. Why gender is even a consideration for the government, I don't know. I can think of very few circumstances where the government has any need to know your gender. Whatever you identify is should be good enough for them, and shouldn't be any more difficult than going in and filling out a form if they just -must- know (I dunno, for your driver's license or something, but even then, how is that useful or relevant?).

[Pax]

HystericalParoxysm, I think you should run for President-congress-senate admin.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Only if I could do it from Holland. I wouldn't live in the US again for love or money. ;)

[unalisaa]

I think the answer to that is simple: don't regulate it. If two people want to get married, let 'em. Who cares what they've got under their skirt?

And... yeah, what you said about the surgery. As I understand it, it's a risky business even if you can afford it and get a good doctor, especially ftm. Why someone has to go under the knife to "prove" that they're the another gender, I don't know. Why gender is even a consideration for the government, I don't know. I can think of very few circumstances where the government has any need to know your gender. Whatever you identify is should be good enough for them, and shouldn't be any more difficult than going in and filling out a form if they just -must- know (I dunno, for your driver's license or something, but even then, how is that useful or relevant?).

I think the idea is that it's used for identification, but as we move away from a strict binary, it seems to be more confusing than anything. If you dress in women's clothing, walk like a woman (?) and speak with a woman's voice, is it really easier for a government official to be certain it's really your passport if your passport says "male" under "sex"? Does the GO have to make personal judgement on what that means? Nowadays, one would think it was possible to rely on much more identifying traits like fingerprints or something.
Hell, my passport doesn't have any identifying info but my name, sex, and a photo that doesn't all that much like me. How does that in any way help anyone make sure it's really me?

I can see why the government would need records about biological sex for medical reasons, but medical records are medical records. No one uses the fact that someone had a mole removed from their butt as ID, so why should they use what kind of gonads someone was born with as ID? It's a shaky premise at best.

[whiterider]

No one uses the fact that someone had a mole removed from their butt as ID, so why should they use what kind of gonads someone was born with as ID? It's a shaky premise at best.Well, actually, I have a bigass scar on my right knee which is listed on my passport as an identifying feature. But, then, I'd probably be ok with showing an immigration official my knee...

(Also, a scar is more unique than a vag, unless you want the "sex" field going into frankly creepy levels of detail)

[unalisaa]

Well, actually, I have a bigass scar on my right knee which is listed on my passport as an identifying feature. But, then, I'd probably be ok with showing an immigration official my knee...
Oh. This must be a difference in passport formats. Mine has no room for such detail. In that case, consider my opinion ass-talking.


(Also, a scar is more unique than a vag, unless you want the "sex" field going into frankly creepy levels of detail)
"Sometimes, mostly with blonde-haired people."