Stepping Out and Cleaning Up (Agoraphobia + Hoarding Challenge)

[MSK]

What Are They? (Curtesy of Wikipedia):

Agoraphobia: "agoraphobia is a condition where the sufferer becomes anxious in environments that are unfamiliar or where he or she perceives that they have little control. Triggers for this anxiety may include wide open spaces, crowds (social anxiety), or traveling (even short distances)."

Compulsive Hoarding: "the excessive acquisition of possessions (and failure to use or discard them), even if the items are worthless, hazardous, or unsanitary. Compulsive hoarding impairs mobility and interferes with basic activities".

So two things seem to be rather popular on tv today: agoraphobia and hoarding. So far I've seen it on TLC, CSI, House, and you've undoubtedly seen others. Yes, it's getting just a tiny bit old, but why not take it all the way? Now your sim can experience the... ah... well, now your sim can experience being an Agoraphobic Hoarder!

Lucky them.

Here are the rules I've got so far, and then I'll share my own sims story up to this point. Remember, I'm just play testing right now, so I'd love to know what you think should be added, changed, etcetera!

The Story

You (your sim) have always been sort of a homebody... oh, and you like to collect stuff. And by stuff, I mean everything. Old chairs, magazines, blankets, rusty screws you found in the radiator... You know, anything that could be important to have around. The real problems start, however, when you finally move into your own place. It's pretty cheap, but nice enough and also... clean. Nothing to worry about though because, after just a short time, it'll be as cluttered and cavernous as your old room was! You just have to stay calm until then...

Just a few months later, your nice new home is exactly that: cluttered, trashed, and an absolute dumping ground. You've managed to improve on your original furnishings, but all the old stuff is still there, and you've only just been able to maintain a path from your bedroom, to the kitchen, to the bathroom, and -- in you hold your breath -- you can squeeze your way over to the television. You haven't left the house since you got here (okay, you've gone into the yard a couple times but that really doesn't count) and the only 'friends' you know, you met online. You've never been unhappier and, suddenly, you realize that you want to change. You don't want to live like this, and you want a family, and friends, and a paying job... and you want to go to the park every once in a while too.

So, can you do it? Can you help your sim clean up their act, and achieve all their dreams before it's too late? After all, a sim only lives so long...

General Rules and Restrictions

1) Before getting a job, you may bring in cash anyway you wish aside from a home business (as this would require your sim to interact with unfamiliar sims). This includes selling crafts, giving advice on the computer, writing novels, and whatever else you can think of.
2) You may buy new items, but you may not sell any items (aside from things you create). For example, if you upgrade your bed you may move the old bed to somewhere else in the house or into the yard, but you must keep the old bed. Additionally, if you ever choose to keep a craft or object of your own making, you may not sell it after that point.
3) Since hoarders seem to pile up their stuff, you can do the same. You may use moveobjects to place objects under or on top of other objects, so long as you don’t try to put all of your used items in the same place (the point is for your house to be cluttered, after all).
4) To simulate your sim being agoraphobic, they may never leave the lot and can’t go outside during the day. They may, however, go outside three times a week during the night time. If your sim accidentally goes out during the day, this counts against the three night time excursions and they may not go out that night as they are too distraught. I suggest locking your door to all sims during the day to prevent this.
5) While you may email, im, and call other sims, you may not invite anyone over until you have become best friends (lifetime relationship over 50).

How To Start

1) Create a single adult sim, male or female, of any aspiration (though fortune could be used to represent the compulsion to hoard, it is not required). Make the sim have 0 shy/outgoing points. I suggest you dress them a bit shabbily, it’s not as if they’re going to be out and about to buy the latest fashions, but this is also up to you.
2) Move your sim into a house than can be afforded on their original 20,000. You may want to keep a bit of extra cash on hand though, because you won’t be able to get a job for a while.
3) Play your sim for a week. During this time, you may not invite anyone over (but may contact sims in any indirect way you wish) and must follow all of the above rules and restrictions. The point of this play period is to get your sim (and you) in the swing of their everyday life before setting out to change it all (and to give you time to accumulate a nice stash of stuff).

Goals

Your goal is to aid your sim in becoming a part of society again, and leading a productive life by overcoming their fears and compulsions. This is done by…

1) Making at least 1 Best Friend for Life. This does not include your spouse.
2) Getting married. Your sim may also enter into a civil union, but you will have to complete all other life goals before you can adopt a child (you have to clean up your act first). If you have hacks for same-sex pregnancy, I’ll allow them but I would prefer you do things the hard way for the sake of realism. You may only become engaged and married someone you have 100 relationship points with (I imagine it would take a lot of commitment to move into the kind of environment your sim has created).
3) Having at least one child, and raising them to adulthood without losing them to social services. You are not required to be married to have a child. Homosexual sims may use same-sex pregnancy hacks for the sake of fairness, but those seeking realism may not adopt until they have achieved the ‘cleaning out your house’ requirement detailed below (otherwise your home is viewed as too much of a danger for children, and the adoption agency will not give you a child).
4) Getting a job. To do this, you must have at least five best friends (this includes any sims in your own household teen and older who have jobs themselves). These sims will vouch for your non-existent employment record, allowing you to get a job.
5) Cleaning out your house. You’re not really motivated to do this until another sim moves in. After all, if it’s just you there’s not really anyone to clean up for. From the day another sim joins the household, begin rolling a six-sided dice every three days. The number rolled dictates how many items (whether they convinced your sim to throw them out, or snuck them away themselves) you can sell, give away, or simply trash. You may not sell any items outside of the dice roll, and must continue to hoard. Only when there are no items remaining in the house but those you actually use (your hoard is gone) has your hoarding compulsion been broken. Oh, and you’ve been attending some pretty heavy duty therapy sessions as well.
6) Stepping back into the world. Sure, you’ve got a family, some friends, maybe even a job, but you still don’t go out. To get your foot in the door, and back into society, you must accumulate 700 relationship points. This total can include relationships with any number of sims. Once the total has been reached, you’ve conquered your agoraphobia and may go outdoors at any time, leave the lot for purposes other than work, and even move.

How It Ends

This challenge ends when achieves all the above goals, or when they die. If they die before achieving all the goals, it’s possible they still managed to have a pretty good life… but you lose the challenge. If you met the goals…

You’ve done it! You’ve faced your fears and built a network of friends and family more than willing to help you out in your times of need (hopefully you’re willing to do the same). You go to the park with your children (or grandchildren), have a stable job, and take the trash out every day. Your life is good. You took control and made it this way.

So let me know if you decide to take this challenge on, or if you have any suggestions. No idea if this will be difficult or not, I’ve decided to start my own challenge over, but I’d love to know how it goes for you! (And just a note: I realize that agoraphobia and hoarding are, you know, real problems. No offense is intended.)

This is clearly still a really rough version of this challenge, and any suggestions for improvement would be appreciated.
~MSK

[moonlight_frog]

"Homosexual sims may use same-sex pregnancy hacks for the sake of fairness, but those seeking realism may not adopt until they have achieved the ‘cleaning out your house’ requirement detailed below..."

Wait, your sim doesn't need to be homosexual, right? The part about children and marriage confused me because you mentioned a "civil union" and adoption; can your sim just be heterosexual and have children naturally, or does s/he have to be gay and adopt (do you have to adopt?)

Does that rule about babies also apply to heterosexual sims (that is, to try for baby, you must clean out your house first)?

Also, your sim's children and spouse are able to function normally and don't have agoraphobia, correct? Can the offspring move out once they're old enough (assuming that I still haven't completed the challenge by then)?

By "700 relationship points", do you include both LTR and Daily or just the long-term?


Other than those discrepancies, the challenge has pretty clear goals and sounds like something different; I usually try to keep my sim houses spic and span, so this'll definitely be a challenge... Thanks for making it. :)

[aelflaed]

This sounds like an interesting idea. You've thought things out pretty well.

However, I've played quite a bit with poverty-type challenges and systems, and I know just how litttle a sim can live on. They can survive perfectly well with the cheapest version of any item, and with very little stuff at all. Upgrades on furniture and deco are not needed for sim happiness.

Maybe there needs to be more enforcement of hoarding - perhaps the sim should have to aquire a new object every day - or five new objects - and/or to replace every item in the original furnishing within that first week (while keeping the original stuff of course). As part of that, you should probably put into the starting guidelines that the sim has to move into a FURNISHED starter house.

To be cured of hoarding, your rules indicate that there should be no furnishings on the lot that aren't in use - how do you see decorative items fitting with that? Do you envisage the final product being clear of all non-functional deco? Is there an acceptable level of clutter to be kept?

I wonder how well cleaning meshes with hoarding - do hoarders keep their clutter dusted and the sink polished?

Hoarders might garden, and probably are very likely to have a garden full of rusted vehicles and weeds, with the occasional rose bush gone wild. However, if our sims are also agorophobic, how are they going to put their clutter outside? I suggest that items may only be placed outside during one of the three night-time excursions allowed per week, and only one item per night, because even if it is dark, it must be pretty nerve-shattering to step outside the door to store your junk.

Presumably the only sim who can move in will be the new spouse. Other than that, It looks as though all household members will be offspring. Players could make it a group house by moving in other sims with whom their sim gets 100 relationship points.

I'm interested to try this as a short challenge - glad you've made it a single generation.

[Peni Griffin]

Hoarders don't clean. They have so much stuff they couldn't clean all of it even if they tried. Maintenance is routinely neglected - can't replace the fuse if the fuse box is hidden behind a stack of newspapers. Most of them have vermin problems and the most deeply troubled have problems letting go even of bodily waste, but that's way too dark for most people to have fun with.

That hoarding period could also involve forcing the environment and hygiene scores down by restricting cleaning, showering, possibly even flushing the toilet. Newspapers pile up in the yard, delivery boxes sit on the counter forever. This makes the recovery period harder to kick off, as a filthy house, clogged toilet, and stinky sim will tend to repel the prospective spouse.

[aelflaed]

I thought as much.

I'm starting this challenge and making some tweaks...I added a cat to the household in CAS - needs more stuff, and makes life a little more interesting. If the cat destroys any of the furniture, my sim will be able to hoard the rubbish, and also buy a new item to take the place of the ruined one. I kept my sim's neatness low, as well as making him shy. Sloppy sims don't want to clean, so I won't have to force him to leave the mess alone.

I will restrict cooking and make my sim order fast food once per day for the first week. After that, I'm thinking of having him order pizza or chinese food every second day until the spouse moves in and the cleanup stage begins. No repairing stuff without a spouse, either (obviously requires moral support!). Any broken items will be left on the lot, and a new one purchased.

What about bills? Sims will only be able to collect them on their night-time excursions. I don't think that will force them to be overdue, but if bills are not allowed to be paid, it might be interesting. Let the repoman come and take some of their hoard - it would upset the resident and make space for new items. Likewise, burglars. I am not installing any alarms, so if there are burlagrs or fires, my sim will deal on their own.

Add a telescope and try for alien babies! I don't think plantsimming would work well for this, but vampirism would. What about werewolves? Can't be a witch, as the hoarder can't visit comm lots to meet the head witches.

[anna220]

This sounds really interesting and like one poster mentioned being a short challenge maybe I can fit it in while doing my other challenge. Good job coming up with this !

[aelflaed]

I played a good part of this challenge yesterday. My sim now has a job, a wife and a new baby - but the house is not much better. I recommend some changes to the setup - the sim must have a computer, at least three shrubs in the yard, and curtains on all windows. No cooking (fast food and snacks are fine), and no repairing or bill paying until another sim moves in. No greeting walkbys or visitors, unless invited after becoming best friends - and then you have to invite them after dark.

I added another stage to the goals - Lift Your Diet - after the first week, start cooking proper meals. With better nourishment, other things will begin to improve. Cleaning up after yourself is still beyond you until another sim moves in and shows you the way. Dirty dishes can be put on the floor or outside (at night) to clear the counters - or just keep buying counters.

I allowed the residents to begin cleaning up roaches, trash and dirty dishes after marriage, but the reduction of hoarded objects will not begin until both house and yard are sanitary. Once the flies, roaches and green smoke are gone, the wife will start working to get rid of other stuff.

In all, it took the initial week plus one more to get my sim through the spouse-finding stage. Would have been a week and a half if he had set his sights on a proper adult female. He spent ages chatting up one lass online - they got engaged, and then there were no further options. I moved her in with a cheat while figuring out what was wrong. (She was only a college girl and had no options to move in or get married!) I decided not to force-marry them - but that meant I had to track down a different spouse. I got rid of the lodger once the real spouse was safely married in.

So...repairing nothing means that there were three or four computers smoking in odd corners. The plumbing broke, of course, but you can keep using it anyway, so no extras there. I buy a minimum of three new items each day, and until another sim moved in, no real cooking was allowed. Pizza, Chinese, chips, juice, cookies, instant meals were eaten and abandoned everywhere.

I soon lost track of which nights were excursions and which were not, so as long as there had been no sneaking out during the day (fine until I had to leave the door open for the spouse), every night became allowable for putting things outdoors.Only three items can be moved out per night - this was usually stinky food packaging. The entire front yard was thick with roaches, except where weeds had grown from the three shrubs I put in at the start. There were roaches in the house at one stage, but after that it was okay inside.

I decreed that finding a spouse bucked up the poor sim enough that he could follow her example in putting occasional dishes into the dishwasher - in fact, he never autonomously tidied or cleaned anything until she moved in, but since then, he does at times. Weird. Apart from roaches, I never push the phobic sim to clean anything - the wife has done almost eveything in that line. The spouse sprayed a few roaches, but then I let her call the exterminator. Even with that help, it took a day and a half to spray them all, and about a week more to clean up the remains.

With bills sitting in the letterbox unpaid, the repoman came a few times. I had my sim replace anything that was taken, and otherwise it was no big deal - a bit of weeping over the experience, nothing serious. Now the wife manages bill-paying. She also convinced hubby to repair the broken stuff - so there are three or four Functional computers sitting in odd corners.

The wife had one miscarriage - too much time sleaning roaches while pregnant, but now they have a daughter named Hope. Hubby was able to get a job in the Gamer career - how appropriate! The rules say the sim can get a job after making five best friends - since they are townies, and mostly never met in person, I don't know if they have jobs themselves, but if I read the guidelines right, it's only sims in your own household who have to have a job themselves to give your sim a reference. Getting qualified for a job was pretty easy really - in looking for an online girlfriend, my sim had worked up good lifetime relationships with a number of women over that first two weeks. He's quite the ladies' man online!

Another few days will see the roaches and weeds off the property, and the baby probably ready to go to school. I'm hoping to get my sim abducted by aliens, but no luck so far. Having a cat from the beginning was good. My sim does no training or scolding, but the cat never quite destroyed anything, and only messes on the floor when her litter tray can't be used any more. There are three litter trays now, with a new one bought whenever she starts peeing in the wrong places. I see no need to restrict cats being put in at the start - they have to live indoors, they add social - but all that online chatting means your sim's social needs are well looked after anyway. A dog would be harder, as they need to go outside to the toilet. Do birds or womrats die if their cages aren't cleaned? I never use either, so don't know how that would work. The cat was excellent.

In all, I have been enjoyng this challenge with some tweaks...maybe others will like some of my additions too!

[Nestraya]

i'm giving this a try, and so far it's... interesting. definitely different from my normal gameplay, usually i micromanage, but since this sim isn't doing any cleaning, i can sort of let her do her own thing. it's kind of funny (and sad, but funny) watching her complain about the squalor but not make any attempt to wash up...

i've played through the first week's time, but i think i'm going to do another week before i really start trying to improve things for her; it's just not looking cluttered enough yet. it is looking messy though, she's been cooking without wiping the counters and hasn't cleaned the toilet once. really surprised she hasn't had roaches yet with all the dirty dishes she leaves on every surface.

(i'm starting to get mad at the neighbors, too. her neighborhood seems to have an above-average rate of newspaper-stealage. having to wait until night to go out means most of her newspapers have walked off before she can read them.)


suggestions:

have requirements for quality/quantity of mess - it's easy and tempting to accumulate a hoard of useful things instead of junk. it would also help with the cleanup challenge if there was a minimum amount of clutter you had to pass before starting your sim's reformation, so there's guaranteed to be something to de-hoard.

as has been mentioned, any windows must be concealed. whether it's curtains, posters, or you stick the fridge in front of it, don't torture your agoraphobe by leaving the outdoors visible. plus, you can treat the window-concealments as things to lose in the de-hoarding phase, and symbolically cure your sim's agoraphobia.

disallow service workers (maid, repairman, etc) during the hoarding phase. a hoarder would not welcome strangers into their home, especially if they came to clean the place.

start the sims with 0 clean points too, to represent the hoarding habit. (i'm debating whether shy should represent agoraphobia. it's not an equivalent term, but as the opposite of outgoing it might be the closest you can get in the sims. i could also say that agoraphobia is an opposite of active, but lazy doesn't sound any better than shy.)

define the reformation steps better. maybe tie the goals together more by requiring that they be done in order, so each leads to the next, and have each goal lift an agoraphobic/hoarder restriction from earlier.
like, first your sim must make a best friend. the reward is the ability to go to community lots (maybe they have to bring the friend along the first time they leave home, for moral support). once your sim can visit community lots, they can get married (and you could enforce the order by requiring that the couple go out on a date before marrying).

and so on. i am having fun thinking about this, but i don't want to go rewriting your challenge for you. unless you say you really want to hear more ideas. ^^

[aelflaed]

My neighbours stole the paper a lot too - even the old and grungy papers! Perhaps they needed compost. Someone also tipped over the bin, but since my sim never picked it up, I don't know if that was a once-off.

Roaches only come from trash on the ground, not from dirty dishes, so if you want roaches, tip over the garbage can!

I still don't feel cluttered enough after about three weeks' play, buying several items every day. Especially now that the dirty dishes are vanishing. My sim didn't have enough cash to buy very much at a time, though - either he needs a better-paying hobby or some money cheats at the beginning. I replaced all the furnishings that were there on move-in, and made sure to get at least three new items every day, but I think five would be better. There needs to be more clutter.

[aelflaed]

My sim is nearly cured - took a full four seasons, plus a bit. He is waiting on the 'raise a child to adulthood' goal, and there is still some of the hoard around the place. The end is in sight, which means I lose interest about now. He has a second baby on the way, and well-kept house and garden, friends, job...everything is rosy.

I did need more clutter from the start, so if I play this again I will give my sim enough money to clutter things up better. I will also make a rule that at least five new things have to be added each day, or else that dishes and trash don't count towards clutter.

I found the first week concentrated on working up internet friendships, then inviting prospective spouses over to see which one would work. I chose the one that voluntarily cleaned up the most. Once she moved in, and they got the roaches and dishes cleaned out, the whole thng was pretty much over - that took long enough for all those internet friendships to mature, so then my sim was 'cured' of agrophobia and joblessness in one swoop. Then it became a waiting game for hoard reduction and childrearing.

More definition of the goals might keep the challenge going a bit longer at the end - requiring them to be reached in order perhaps. Another suggestion might be that resident sims other than the original sim may not be controlled - so you can roll dice to clear the hoard, but you can't make the poor spouse do all the cleaning up.

This has been a fun challenge. Thanks for sharing your idea.

[MSK]

Thanks for your reponses everyone, glad your enjoying the challenge! I'm recording your suggestions now and will edit the rules shortly (whenever I have time in the next few days). A five item a day minimum will definitely be included as it has been suggested multiple times and restrictions will be ordered.

Moonlight Frog:

Sorry that wasn't clear! No, your sim does not have to be homosexual. What I meant was, if they are, you may use a same sex pregnancy hack so they can have children with their partner the same as a heterosexual couple but I'd prefer they only be able to adopt (because obviously gay couples can't have children in real life). They would not be able to do this until their house has been cleaned out though, because an adoption agency probably wouldn't consider a hoarders house a safe enviornment for a child. I'll reword that in the rules.

In the current rules (this will likely change when/if I order the restrictions), all sims may have biological children at any point in the challenge. No one can really stop you from doing that in real life, after all. ;D

Your children and spouse do not have agoraphiba and function normally. They may move out, go to college, etc.

700 Life Time points.

Your welcome!

Peni Griffin: Restricting cleaning, showering, and general maintainance sounds rights. Not being able to clean would also help to counteract hoarded objects raising the enviormental score. Your post was very informative, thanks.

anna220: Hope so, and good luck with your current challenge!

Aelflaed: I would say decorative items are excluded so long as they're meant to be there (you're keeping the painting because you want a painting on that wall, rather than because you can't sell it), but I guess there needs to be a more defined end to the Cleaning Out Goal... How about, you must remove all general items not in use and may only keep 5 decorative objects?

I'm a little tentative to make sims uncontrollable simply because I'm afraid they'll be too stupid to feed themselves, or go to work, but I'll definitely test it out once I get my own challenge going, because turning them into a work crew does make things a bit too easy...

Thanks so much for the narration of your challenge Aelflaed, I love hearing how things go for people and reading about your challenge has made me all the more excited to start my own! You've provided a lot input too, which is much appreciated! :lovestruc

Nestraya: I'd love to hear any ideas you have, and will definitely be putting your suggestions to use! I'm hoping that having to buy 5 items a day will make for a more effective week of hoarding, but you're right, if it's all useful stuff it's not quite so bad... Maybe only 2 of the 5 can be useful furnishings, while the other 3 have to be decorative objects? Either that or, once an objects 'enters' the hoard (as in, is not an object your sim actually puts to use but something they've shoved in a corner) it becomes completely ruined and can not be used?

[aelflaed]

I find it a bit freaky to have sims I am not allowed to control, but it isn't too bad. They can look after themselves reasonably well, as long as there isn't a fire. you culd also try limiting their commands - a certain number per day, or commands only to do with personal needs, or no commands after dark. Maybe commands for general cleaning should be included into the dice-rolling. I made it separate because I didn't want to reduce the object hoard too soon, but I did want to get rid of the cockroaches and green smoke. Sims may still clean autonomously, but it will be slower.

I don't think my sims would ever have got on top of the roach problem without the exterminator. I didn't let them have any other outside help, though.

[Peni Griffin]

You might want to create rules to adapt the challenge to Apartment Life for those who have it. The effect of the hoarder's living in an apartment would be:

More money up front to buy stuff with, but a steady decline in net worth. When you buy a house, most of your large expenses go back into your net worth so that if you move you'd be able to buy an equivalent house, but when you're in an apartment, your rent vanishes into oblivion every Monday.

Severe reduction of space. You can't put anything in the public space for the building or the other apartments, so even apartments that look approximately as roomy as a similar house begin to feel cramped pretty quickly. You wouldn't be able to move anything outside at all, except onto your own patio, balcony, or yard space, which in most pre-built apartments is tiny.

Increased difficulty of isolation. Your neighbors will bang on your door to complain about the smell when your environment score gets low. If you don't lock the door they'll tend to wander in without an invite on weekends. Your landlord will try to get you to come out to attend his weekend party and ask you to hang out after he's done fixing things and tidying up the building.

The landlord won't fix anything you don't call him about, but a rule should be made about when the hoarder is allowed to call the landlord for repairs.

The hoarder will now have three bill nights: Monday is rent day, and Tuesday and Thursday bills come as usual. This should make it easier to track the nights he's allowed to go out. The logistics of getting a delivery without going outside are harder in an apartment because there's a gauntlet of stairs and dawdling tenants for the delivery man to negotiate.

The hoarder would have to be the only played character in the building, as the inactive tenants of apartment buildings are constantly running around the public space, chatting at the mailbox, fighting on the playground, etc., so if you played any of the other inhabitants of the building during this challenge, the hoarder would behave inappropriately.

[Hwes]

I tried this, didn't do well at all. My hoarder had very little money from the start, and she broke the computer. The way I was playing was to have her be a fortune sim, and to lock any "buy a X worth Y" wants, and fulfill those before buying anything else that I would consider more useful. It worked out ... badly. She just kept wanting more and more expensive sculptures, and all she had to fund them was paintings (and I cheated to get the easel!). With locking those wants she was accumulating very little clutter on her painting-funded budget. And with no computer, she couldn't get to know anyone.

[aelflaed]

The computer is vital to this challenge - if it breaks, it must be replaced before anything else is bought. I would probably give my sim extra starting funds if I did this again, so there is a good buffer for clutter-purchasing.

My sim made money by offering financial advice. He had Fortune as a secondary aspiration, precisely to enable the financial consulting option. Even so, it took a bit of effort to earn enough cash each day. And I used kaching once or twice because it seemed ridiculous to lack clutter because there weren't enough hours in the day for computing!

Any creative option will take a while to make money, as you have to work up the correct skill before they get a decent return. Since money has nothing to do with the challenge as it stands, I see no problem with giving them extra money to start with...maybe buy the house, then give them another $5000?

If there is enough cash, satisfying wants to purchase particular items might be an interesting way to fill up the house. Good idea!

And I liked Peni Griffin's take on the apartment version of the challenge, too. Sounds sufficiently different that I may try it.