Mod The Sims - Is It Racist to Not Want to Date Someone Based on The Color of Their Skin?

BurgundyStars

3rd Sep 2011, 04:55 PM

I think it's complicated. On the one hand, we all have our physical preferences; no one can deny that. Everyone has certain qualities that they are just intrinsically attracted to more than others. In many cases, it's all about the community you grow up in. Someone who grows up in a town populated with people of a particular race will often feel more attracted to men and/or women of that background. It's human nature.

On the other hand, one can take the statement: "I only date white/black/Asian/etc. girls and/or guys" and ask just why they focus on that group. I've come across similar discussions in other forums where a few posters brought up the point that every race has millions (in some cases billions) of people with an innumerable range of physical characteristics. In that case, how can we all comfortably say "I only date people from this race" and not feel that there might be something more than issues of attraction behind it?

Like I said, it's a very complicated issue, and responses like "it's racist" or "it's just a preference" don't cut it. I believe issues such as culture, similarities and differences in life experiences, and many more components factor into it.

malfoya

3rd Sep 2011, 07:31 PM

I prefer guys with dark hair and brown eyes, but I think it would be a pretty harsh statement to say I would never concider the opposite. To state that I would NEVER pick anyone else. I don't see it as racist though, more to what you prefer. I'm a caucasian myself, and I prefer something else than blonde/blue eyes. I think this has more to do with our physical preferences, but you should always be careful when using the word NEVER. You .. never... know :)

ElementMK

3rd Sep 2011, 08:52 PM

Not finding someone attractive =/= not thinking someone is equal to you in rights and respect. It's as simple as that, really.

EDIT: I don't appreciate Wojtek sticking Poland into irrelevant threads and don't wish to humor him.

Oaktree

3rd Sep 2011, 08:55 PM

I think it's a matter of preference. I don't think that most people choose their partner solely based on appearance, but appearance plays an important part in attraction. You don't have a whole lot of control over how you look, but you also don't have a whole lot of control over what you find attractive. I find tall, dark-haired men with dark eyes attractive, but I didn't decide that I find this attractive; I simply realized that many of the men I find attractive share those traits. I've never had a crush on an East Asian man, not because I dislike East Asians, but because the facial features I find most attractive are not often found in East Asians. What I'm getting at is that the things you find attractive in a person's appearance are not a conscious bias, but rather preference that you have no control over.

missy harries

3rd Sep 2011, 09:41 PM

Hmmm, I agree more with BurgundyStars but what I really think is that it depends on the person making the statement. On one hand there are those who like many in the thread have said that it is just a matter of preference in regards to what that person find's attractive but on the other hand there are racist people, so they will disregard that ethnic group because of racism and in that case it is racist.
It should be taken on a person to person basis since there is no genral definitive answer to fit all.

SuicidiaParasidia

3rd Sep 2011, 11:05 PM

no, its not racist. what skin/hair/eye color a person finds more aesthetically pleasing than others is no more malice-based than painting a childs' nursery green instead of blue or pink.

i wouldnt fret over what others specify as credentials for their mate. there are reasons for most standards (just as we have standards of personality that we hold to a potential mate; who's going to start whining about how you wont give someone you dont enjoy being around for whatever reason 'a chance'? for example, maybe you dont like cocky people--thats a bias, but it rubs you the wrong way. should you have to endure what you know you dont find pleasing, for the sake of appearing 'fair'?), and while you may not agree with them, its also not a big concern of yours.

i think most people forget where their nose does and does not belong, sometimes. what color someone sleeps with is no more your business than what gender they are.

perhaps the question should be asked: why is it considered more 'shallow' to scrutinize someones appearance than it is to scrutinize their personality?

christx101

3rd Sep 2011, 11:09 PM

Its not racist everyone has a right too date who they wanna date its all a matter of preference.

kiwi_tea

4th Sep 2011, 12:30 AM

McChoclatey

4th Sep 2011, 02:36 AM

Interesting answers...thanks for your opinions, everyone. For the record, I don't have anything against anyone for not wanting to date someone of a specific race. They can date whoever they want to date. I hold no anger against them. But I was wondering this a while back and I couldn't figure it out. It's possible that someone wants to date someone who is of their own race because they feel more comfortable; they have more in common with them. It's possible that certain traits people of different races most often carry may be deemed unattractive by someone, and that's okay. I was thinking that anyone of any race can be attractive, but now, to me, it depends on the person for what they find the most attractive and who they find the most beauty in. Not everyone thinks in the same way; I forgot that. I wasn't thinking this debate topic thoroughly, and now, I've delved too much into this--sorry if I came off as nosy. I was curious.

Oaktree

4th Sep 2011, 04:49 AM

It tend to think that while, at a basic level, it's not racist to have sexual preferences about certain racial characteristics, sexual preference is a very acceptable and easy way to mask ingrained (perhaps not even conscious) racism.

I certainly look at the HUGE number of gay dating profiles that say "No offense Asian guys, just not into you" in New Zealand and think - yeah, this is a form of widespread racism.

I think it is far too easy to simply say sexual preference is never an expression of racism. I think more often than not it is.

I think that it may be an expression of racism sometimes, but I wouldn't say that it is more often than not. It is somewhat close-minded to say "x race need not apply" when advertising yourself for online dating, but I think it's more a function of our tendency to generalize. If a person has seen/met many people of a particular race and never felt attracted to a member of that race, he/she may take a cognitive leap and decide that he/she will never be attracted to a member of that race. Note my use of the term "cognitive leap", as this is not completely logical, but a form of inductive reasoning that people engage in, nonetheless. In some cases, it may be that the person is very picky and only likes a very specific set of features and does not want anyone without those specific features. A fair number of people seem to think that they're hot stuff who can get anyone they want, and they want a hot girl/boyfriend. People like that are fooling themselves and are unlikely to end up in a happy relationship so long as they remain so focused on finding someone that looks perfectly like their ideal, with no thought to personality, but it doesn't make them racist.

I just don't really buy what people say about most people or everyone being subconscious racists. I think there are some people who are in denial about their racism or who do not advertise it, but that most people get along just fine with other races. I think most of the divide attributed to racism is actually a cultural divide. It is easier to relate to someone you share culture with, so you might be more willing to hang out with those who share your culture. There is somewhat of a cultural divide, in America, at least, between the various races and within races. This divide is blurry, as not everyone fits neatly into a predictable category. In areas where the culture doesn't teach people to be racist, those who fall outside of standard racial-cultural divisions are still accepted into whatever culture(s) they fit in.

Sorry about the sort-of off-topic-ness, but I think this addresses the point that McChoclatey brings up about people feeling more comfortable with those of similar race.

purexevil666

4th Sep 2011, 04:50 AM

Well it depends on the person who says it. maybe he/she think about thier future soulmate with a specific skin colour.
but i think it's kinda racist ;x

kiwi_tea

4th Sep 2011, 04:56 AM

I would tend to think the use of such cognitive leaps often constitutes racism itself. Not intentional racism, but in all practical senses: Racism.

Oaktree

4th Sep 2011, 05:06 AM

Racism is generally defined as the belief that one or more races is inferior to (an)other(s). Most people do not regard aesthetic preference as a standard of the 'worth' of a particular race. Cognitive leaps in other regards - the belief that all members of a particular race follow a certain negative stereotype, which one regards as negative - are racism, as they would incite feelings of negativity toward another race. I think most of us are not so wrapped up in appearances that we are offended by everyone who doesn't look sexually attractive or otherwise beautiful to us.

EDIT: I think I can put this more clearly: Most people view aesthetics as merely a matter of taste. When a person says that x thing is beautiful, they are not claiming it as a universal fact. They are claiming it as a personal mental state. Racism generally involves some claim of universal fact, as there is an implication of universality in a claim of inferiority/superiority.

missy harries

4th Sep 2011, 11:17 AM

Not finding someone attractive =/= not thinking someone is equal to you in rights and respect. It's as simple as that, really.

EDIT: I'm also an Idiot so Element Leaf's statement is true.

maxon

4th Sep 2011, 11:28 AM

though elderly seem to think they have more right than us sometimes!
Really?? Wait till you're old.

HystericalParoxysm

4th Sep 2011, 12:57 PM

@Element Leaf: If you don't want to read my posts just skip them and do not write stupid comments!

Um, I gotta say, I agree with Element Leaf. Not everything relates to Poland, and this thread is about dating someone based on the colour of their skin. It is not a general racism-related thread. Please stay on topic or do not post.

HystericalParoxysm

4th Sep 2011, 01:08 PM

Then perhaps you need not participate in this thread.

paksetti

4th Sep 2011, 07:03 PM

If you don't know what to say about something, maybe you shouldn't respond to the topic.

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the fact that you've never talked to a non-white person.

Shoosh Malooka

4th Sep 2011, 07:16 PM

Normally, I wouldn't date ladies who are black. I say ladies because I don't want to say girls, and ladies implies that they are over 18 but younger than 28. Sorry if that offends you. But there have been a few ladies who are black that had magical qualities to me. There was one in particular that was almost irresistible to me.

She resembled a nerdy librarian, had freckles, and liked Steven King. We had a few silent moments, but I never advanced because she was black and I wasn't. What might have been had come and gone because I wouldn't break the race barrier. She pops into my head every now and then.

unalisaa

4th Sep 2011, 07:41 PM

This is a really difficult question to answer. Yes, if you're turning people down purely on the basis of their race, it can be because of racism. But it's not in the interest of a member of the minority group to be dating a racist in the first place, so it's a "victimless crime", so to speak. I don't think a lack of romantic or sexual attraction is necessarily racist, but unprocessed racism can cause lack of romantic or sexual attraction. As long as one properly examines oneself -- even if one reaches an unpleasant conclusion --, I think one is on the safe side.
It's hard, though, because there's always the issue of whether one's attractions are based on internalised societal norms or what have you. If one is attracted to Caucasian features, is that simply because one has come to accept the norms of what is attractive?
Can skin color be a preference?
No one likes hearing about what pushes unalisaa's buttons, but personally, I do have a thing for paleness -- as opposed to tanned skin. I have, however, come to understand that this is a slightly unusual preference, and I think that a lot of the time, the skin colour thing is used as an excuse for underlying racism. I see a lot of people who have quite dark skin thanks to various bronzers, and they seem to be considered attractive even by people who "just aren't into ... dark ... [chicks/guys]".
Moreover, this is in no way the only criterion that I use to gauge attractiveness in members of my preferred gender, and I doubt that "skin colour" genuinely ranks that high on that many people's list. It's a way of trying to explain something that really is quite complicated. In other words, kiwi_tea worded this so much more concisely than I did:
It tend to think that while, at a basic level, it's not racist to have sexual preferences about certain racial characteristics, sexual preference is a very acceptable and easy way to mask ingrained (perhaps not even conscious) racism.

I certainly look at the HUGE number of gay dating profiles that say "No offense Asian guys, just not into you" in New Zealand and think - yeah, this is a form of widespread racism.

I think it is far too easy to simply say sexual preference is never an expression of racism. I think more often than not it is.

I realise this is something of a rambling post, but I'm thinking maybe it's not a question of racism, actually. It's about beauty standards that may be derived from racism. You can reconsider them, much as you can reconsider the whole "blonde women with huge breasts" thing, but ultimately, attraction is such a personal matter that I don't think it's anyone's business but the owner of said feelings'.

Element_Leaf put it quite well. Not being attracted to someone doesn't mean you don't respect them as a person.
And even if your lack of attraction has racist roots... it's simply not relevant in your everyday life, if the only racism you are guilty of is concerning whether a certain characteristic is attractive or not. Not any more than it's sexist to have preferences that coincide with patriarchal beauty standards for women, as long as you understand that not thinking someone is attractive is no grounds for treating them as unworthy in some way. That's another can of horrible killer bees altogether.

Just because I don't find somebody physically appealing or attractive does not mean I think of them as less!
I don't find the old dog man (he's always out with his dog :) ) down the road attractive and I know he has the same rights (though elderly seem to think they have more right than us sometimes!), I'm also very respectful so that statement is untrue.
... you don't know what =/= means, do you?

Having no contact with non-white people doesn't make me incapable of answering a question. I think it's just a matter of preference. Having talked to my friends a long time ago I remember they wouldn't like to date a non-white person because of the cultural reasons.
Wojtek, you are something of a difficult person to discuss race with, but I do want to say this: what's with the assumption that one holds a certain set of cultural values because of one's looks? And what's with the assumption that one's cultural background is representable of one as a person? I've known quite a few people who have rejected/are actively rejecting the cultural background they grew up in as they became more conscious of it. Culture is not an excuse for anything, least of all one's personality.

missy harries

4th Sep 2011, 08:03 PM

... you don't know what =/= means, do you?

I don't no, I've never come across it and I was wondering what the point to it was!
Some enlightenment from somebody would be nice please, google's no help for it and at least then I'll know how much I misinterpreted that post :lol:

unalisaa

4th Sep 2011, 08:04 PM

I don't no, I've never come across it and I was wondering what the point to it was!
Some enlightenment from somebody would be nice please, google's no help for it and at least then I'll know how much I misinterpreted that post :lol:
It's an inequation sign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequation); it means exactly the opposite of "=".
Google is often unhelpful when searching for symbols. I recommend Wikipedia's search feature.

missy harries

4th Sep 2011, 08:12 PM

It's an inequation sign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequation); it means exactly the opposite of "=".

Thank you unalisaa, does not equal did just occur to me after rereading his post :faceslap:
Yet again my idiocy never ceases to astound me! Why did no tell me sooner???? I do at least like to know when I've got something wrong :anime:

purexevil666

4th Sep 2011, 08:34 PM

Okaii the idea of racism is disgusting and it makes me pissed -.-
I hate racism and racists are extremely sick -.-
Maybe if you would date someone with a diffrent skintone could be your future couple?
I've seen many people marry who has a diffrent skin colour and they live happily.

Rawra

4th Sep 2011, 09:08 PM

though elderly seem to think they have more right than us sometimes!
I agree. My friend was sitting with her feet on a bench. I don't condone this time of behaviour, but nevertheless. A woman in her 70s slapped the hell out of her for doing this, in front of at least 10 people. Most of them kept quiet, while the rest were on the old lady's side. Again, I do not condone "destroying" the urban furniture, but nobody has the right to hit anybody, no matter the age. In another situation, if it was someone from my age up to, let's say, 40, who was "lecturing" an old man for something (for example, spitting on the floor, a thing which, even though is considered to be the youth's behaviour, is done by older people as well), the crowd would have been on the old individual's side regardless. I consider it some kind of discriminating as well.

Back on topic, I think it also depends on how the individual responds to people belonging to a different race when they try to flirt with him/her. If he/she refuses them as they would to a normal person belonging to the same race, sometimes subtle, sometimes not, not bringing race into the discussion, it's not racist. On the other hand, if they actually mention race, or the skin colour, etcetera, then it can be labelled as racism.

It goes the same for refusing a person of the very same race, while mentioning physical features. Or, let's put it different in this case, if someone says something about physical characteristics in a mocking manner, then I consider it probably as discriminating as telling someone "I won't date you because you're of [x] race". I mean, something among the lines of "You're fat and ugly, I won't date you" or "Sorry, I don't like blondes/ brunettes/ gingers/ brown-haired people", etc. Might not be as offending, I cannot tell, as I haven't been put in either situation, but it is discrimination as well, in my opinion.

Robodl95

4th Sep 2011, 09:33 PM

Rawra

4th Sep 2011, 10:08 PM

I was born in Romania and raised in Moldavia, two countries where people of other races than Caucasian are rarer. I don't seem to be... ignorant, related to matters of race. I don't have a lot of experience regarding blacks, or Asians, or stuff like that, as, even though I have seen and have spoken to such people, I didn't befriend them, because I didn't have the occasion, but I can speak about such things like any other individual would, with or without experience. Not trying to be rude, Wojtek, but having dealt with people of different races or not doesn't necessarily make you ignorant regarding such stuff.

selfmadequeen

5th Sep 2011, 01:22 AM

My parents are a mixed race couple, so I don't really look at skin colour when determining whether or not I find someone attractive because that seems normal to me. But you can't control who you are attracted to. As long as one isn't being hateful about it, it seems like a preference to me.

simbalena

5th Sep 2011, 05:51 AM

Most people in this thread seem to think this topic refers to people who say they will only date their own race, but there are also people who only date different races. My sister is white but won't date white guys (even though she hasn't specifically stated this every guy she has ever dated has been from other races), so does this make her racist against her own race?

Personally I feel sorry for people who restrict themselves to only having relationships with people with specific superficial traits. This may stop them from connecting with their perfect mate. The more you love someone the more attractive they are in your eyes, so something that you aren't attracted to at first you may seem very beautiful once you are in love with the person. You can say "I have only dated white guys" or "so far I have only been attracted to white guys", but it seems naive (or racist) to say "I will only date white guys" because none of us know what we will think in the future.

Sunbee

8th Sep 2011, 07:35 PM

I only dated dark-haired guys of whatever racial background. I didn't realize that until some years after getting married, but it was funny in retrospect: four guys, four different ethnic groups, all dark haired. My husband's not the same race as I am, but the cultural differences are the biggie, always, when we run into relationship issues.

Wojtek--remember that race does not equal culture in English. It only seems like it should because of your country's situation. You would not have any more cultural commonalities with a white American than with a black American (or any of the other ethnic/racial groups we have here), but a mixed race marriage in the US would, unless one spouse was an immigrant, share the same culture. I expect this applies to any multiracial country. (It's a little more complicated than that in the US because the vast majority of us are descendents of fairly recent immigrants, but basically, that's the difference.)

Simbalena--I can see at least one good genetic reason for only dating outside one's own race: lethal recessives.

CmarNYC

8th Sep 2011, 08:22 PM

Oaktree

8th Sep 2011, 08:54 PM

I agree with BurgundyStars and think that responding with an absolute 'no, it's not racist' or 'yes, it's racist' is an oversimplification of a complicated situation.

It depends, and it can be a little of one and a little of the other. People aren't all the same - one individual might simply have a preference for light skin, while another may have the same preference but on some level it's because they have a negative emotional reaction to the idea of having an intimate relationship with a Black or Indian or Hispanic or whatever. Someone can say and believe they just happen to not find certain skin colors or racially-associated features attractive, but where is that preference coming from?Those cases are likely to be some degree of racism although I'd hesitate to call everyone with those feelings a racist, which is a very loaded word. It could be concious or subconcious and something the person would never admit even to themselves. We (at least many/most of us) grew up in a world that still has a good deal of racism and sometimes those attitudes sink in whether we want them or not and whether we admit them or not.

And it's not really comparable to prefering blondes or brunettes or redheads because there's no history of organized and pervasive prejudice or negative stereotypes against any particular hair color. (There are stereotypes but not on the same level in most societies.)

While I agree that sometimes preferences may reflect prejudice, you seem to be implying that racism is the primary reason for which a person would not find the features of other races attractive. There is at least one reason why a person might prefer those of his/her race that is not based in racism. There is a phenomenon known as Genetic Sexual Attraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction) where related individuals who meet in adulthood (and therefore are not subject to the Westermarck Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)#Westermarck_effect)) sometimes fall in love. This is because many people find those with features (and personalities, though it isn't relevant to the topic at hand) similar to their own attractive. This isn't a matter of social training, but seems to be an innate quality. Not everyone feels strongly attracted to those with similar features, but it is common enough to be noteworthy.

While it is possible for those of other races to share similar physical features, realistically, a person with little recent racial mixing in his/her background is likely to have features that fit closely with a norm for his/her race/region and that will not be like the typical features of most other races/regions. Therefore, an individual with a strong preference for features similar to his/her own is unlikely to find a person of another race as attractive as persons of his/her race.

Robodl95

8th Sep 2011, 11:04 PM

@Sunbee: Exactly. I don't really want to be prejudiced but when I see a non-white person on the street I immediately think about him or her as a non-native who doesn't even know a word in Polish. I cannot change that, it happens automatically. Maybe in the capital Warsaw or more representative cities like Poznañ, Wroc³aw, Kraków or Trójmiasto (Gdañsk, Gdynia and Sopot) there are more non-white people who came to my country to work temporarily but in my backward city, even in the city center there are almost no non-whites. There is something in the consciousness that makes us automatically assume that a non-white person is not Polish. It cannot be changed.
So you just choose to accept your prejudice? People have said "it cannot be changed" about a lot of things, and it usually can. 200 years ago in the southern US if you were to ask about the treatment of blacks I'm sure they would say that that couldn't be changed either.

crocobaura

8th Sep 2011, 11:44 PM

So you just choose to accept your prejudice? People have said "it cannot be changed" about a lot of things, and it usually can. 200 years ago in the southern US if you were to ask about the treatment of blacks I'm sure they would say that that couldn't be changed either.

In my country the situation is similar to what Wojtek described. You rarely see a black person, and there are quite a few Romanians that have a black parent, yet most people assume at first glance that they are not Romanians simply based on their skin colour and physical appearance. No one discriminates against them, quite the opposite, they are considered exotic and attractive as far as physical/sexual attraction goes. However, cultural differences are real regardless of whether a person is white, black or asian if he or she is from a different country/ethnic group than you are. It may not be very apparent in the States because of the multiculturalism and multiracial society but in countries where the diversity is not that prevalent, it becomes very obvious. No need to call people prejudiced just because they are not used to see 4 different races and 10 different ethnicities on their way to work every day.

simsample

9th Sep 2011, 12:09 AM

@Sunbee: Exactly. I don't really want to be prejudiced but when I see a non-white person on the street I immediately think about him or her as a non-native who doesn't even know a word in Polish.
That's interesting, because in the city where I live (in the UK), we have a very multicultural society and our local councils have taken to printing official documents in several different languages, including Polish (we have a large Polish community), Urdu, Bengali and Chinese.

If you go to the supermarket, you inevetably hear people speaking different languages, and you are likely to encounter people whose main language is not English in shops, cafes, businesses, even local government.

So if I were to assume that every white person spoke English, I will often be wrong! Quite a different experience from where you live. :)

Robodl95

9th Sep 2011, 12:10 AM

In my country the situation is similar to what Wojtek described. You rarely see a black person, and there are quite a few Romanians that have a black parent, yet most people assume at first glance that they are not Romanians simply based on their skin colour and physical appearance. No one discriminates against them, quite the opposite, they are considered exotic and attractive as far as physical/sexual attraction goes. However, cultural differences are real regardless of whether a person is white, black or asian if he or she is from a different country/ethnic group than you are. It may not be very apparent in the States because of the multiculturalism and multiracial society but in countries where the diversity is not that prevalent, it becomes very obvious. No need to call people prejudiced just because they are not used to see 4 different races and 10 different ethnicities on their way to work every day.
He's the one who first mentioned his prejudice not me. I totally understand why a unicultural nation would feel that way but saying that it'll never change is a bit much. One day I'm sure people will get over their suspicions of non-whites.

Elyasis

9th Sep 2011, 06:25 AM

I remember taking a Sociology class a few years ago. The instructor said that United States is the most multicultural country, whereas Japan is the most monocultural country. Something to think about. ;)

That sounds like it has a little bit of bias.

acid_paradox

9th Sep 2011, 07:09 AM

I see it as preference. I'll date any guy/girl that I like, regardless of their race. I tend to only date white people though, because it's their general appearance and personality that appeals to me. Not to sound prejudice, it's just that most black guys in my town are violent gang members who do drugs, while most of the white guys are athletic outdoorsmen who get decent grades. I just really prefer the latter. I guess that's why they call me the racist of the family, though I don't understand how I can be racist towards myself.

Elyasis

9th Sep 2011, 08:36 AM

Technically it's possible to have same race racism but it usually comes with a lot of self hate or even delusions about what race you see yourself as. That doesn't seem to be the case with you acid_paradox.

crocobaura

9th Sep 2011, 09:39 AM

He's the one who first mentioned his prejudice not me. I totally understand why a unicultural nation would feel that way but saying that it'll never change is a bit much. One day I'm sure people will get over their suspicions of non-whites.

You have to realise that some countries are not that targeted by immigrants and as such their chances of becoming a multicultural and multiracial society are minimal. Like Wojtek mentioned, language barrier is one reason, then there are economic reasons, and even cultural reasons for that not to happen. Besides, if you, as a white person, go to certain asian or african countries you'll be the exotic element, the stranger that everyone will be suspicious or curious about.

Josepina

9th Sep 2011, 10:34 AM

If not racist, it is definitely superficial. Which most people are anyway.

Nouk

9th Sep 2011, 12:43 PM

As a kid from a mixed race couple, I can say that race does not matter to me, but culture definitely does. I would not date anyone who's culture clashes with mine, it would be too much trouble for me.
As for physical appearance, I do have my preferences, but I have found those to appear in a lot of races.

Elyasis

9th Sep 2011, 11:36 PM

Why did you understand what I meant only after crocobaura's response? I am not going to lie to you but write the truth, even the most painful one without beating around the bush. It's not a surprise that eastern Europe is different than the West. And the thing about the States and Japan is true. Japan is one of the most homogeneous countries. Having a little bit of research before posting is a good idea for Elyasis. :)

I did do research. That's how I know that statement has bias.

"In the United States, continuous mass immigration had been a feature of economy and society since the first half of the 19th century.[40] The absorption of the stream of immigrants became, in itself, a prominent feature of America's national myth. The idea of the Melting pot is a metaphor that implies that all the immigrant cultures are mixed and amalgamated without state intervention.[41] The Melting Pot implied that each individual immigrant, and each group of immigrants, assimilated into American society at their own pace which, as defined above, is not multiculturalism as this is opposed to assimilation and integration. An Americanized (and often stereotypical) version of the original nation's cuisine, and its holidays, survived."
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#Multiculturalism_as_introductory_to_monoculturalism)

Now if we are talking strictly about ethnic groups the US has plenty but they all share a single American culture with only remnants of their original heritage left intact. Multiculturalism implies many cultures coexisting peacefully beside one another in the same country.

As for Japan, they aren't as homogeneous as they would like everyone to believe. For instance their own Native peoples the Ainu are still quite strong in the north around Hokkaido. Also there is a decent amount of immigration there from various countries. However they do still have quite a xenophobic bent, especially in less populated areas.
Also from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan)

The bias is because of the perceived images of both countries. America broadcasts itself as a diverse and welcoming country... Until you are actually trying to apply for citizenship.

Japan is struggling to maintain a national identity right now and in so doing projects to the world that it is only a "one race" nation when that isn't completely true.

Purplepaws

10th Sep 2011, 02:48 AM

I would say overall that no, it's not racist simply to prefer a specific skin color in a dating partner. People may prefer brunettes, they may like freckles, or large breasts, muscular abs... Lots of different physical attributes, and that should include skin color as well. At its basic level, it's not racist. However, preferences may arise because of racism.

I think people should be free to have as many or as few preferences as they want. Just as long as it's not fueled by some form of hatred.

Elexis

12th Sep 2011, 12:47 AM

Is it racist or not depends on the person who says this.
If he says this because he thinks that black/white people are someway better that others, then yes, it is racist.
If the person who says it thinks that black/white skin color is more attractive to him, then no, it's not racist. It could be just a fetish (like hair or eye color).

As I am a "mixture" of different cultures, I don't feel any barriers to date a person with different skin color. I really admire dark skin, because I am pale like a corpse and I hate that :D
As for Wojtek, you will never know if dating a white girl is better for you until you will date a black girl. It's a bit unfair to say that until you try it, it's just your preconception. Who knows, maybe a black girl will make you happier.

CmarNYC

12th Sep 2011, 07:08 PM

I would say overall that no, it's not racist simply to prefer a specific skin color in a dating partner. ... At its basic level, it's not racist. However, preferences may arise because of racism.

Exactly, and that's the point I was trying to make previously. Preferences are individual and come from many causes but they're likely to be influenced by societal attitudes, and some societies (like mine) consider Caucasian features more attractive and to some extent at least light coloring more attractive, including skin, hair, and eyes. Is the individual who finds fair-skinned, blue-eyed blondes with upturned little noses most attractive a racist? Probably not. But is the underlying societal prejudice against darker coloring and African or Hispanic features racist? I think it is.

SimsLover50

12th Sep 2011, 10:08 PM

There are studies which show that human beings prefer certain types of faces, such as facial symmetry,youthfulness, skin clarity and vivid color in eyes.

Valueing lighter skin, seems to be a common gauge of attractiveness even those without contact with Europeans, although it isn't totally universal. One anthropologist suggest this is because higher ranking men tended to marry the perceived most beautiful women in their society, and they tended to select lighter skinned women, that upper classes of society tended to have fairer skin by sexual selection.

Tempscire

13th Sep 2011, 01:42 AM

Valueing lighter skin, seems to be a common gauge of attractiveness even those without contact with Europeans, although it isn't totally universal. One anthropologist suggest this is because higher ranking men tended to marry the perceived most beautiful women in their society, and they tended to select lighter skinned women, that upper classes of society tended to have fairer skin by sexual selection.
I've heard some hypothesizing that people take it as a sign of untrustworthiness when looking at (very) dark-skinned people because it's harder to make out their expressions. Even all-black cats and dogs are slower to be adopted from shelters.

Drakesecaravdis

19th Oct 2011, 09:21 PM

some people seem to think so. I have been called racist before online when I said that I do not find people outside my race attractive.

like someone else on this thread, appearance plays a role in attraction. it may be a small role but it is a role nonetheless.
I don't see how it would be shallow or superficial to be this way because it's not like we don't want to interact with them because of physical features, it's just that we don't want those features in a mate
also it is not the only basis for attraction. every aspect of the person plays a part in what is found attractive. now I know I definitely can't be shallow because I tend to see a person's personality right through to their physical appearance (physical features can help but a person with a good personality is no less than average looking for me)

I do not see how it would be racist because it's not like I would avoid them completely and I can pinpoint a plausible reason why they are not attractive (this is not to say if you cannot explain your attraction you are racist but it's easier to say one is not racist if you know some of their reasoning)
I for example do not find African Americans attractive because of their lips. I have noticed on all of the ones I have seen have too big of lips for my liking. also their hair...hair is one of the top important physical features for me. usually they have little hair or no, and if they don't it's cornrows or something like that.

most importantly if people are racist for having an attraction to only certain races, then you might as well call people sexist for being gay or straight.

now of course I said that appearance plays a small role. well for me, people outside my race are not attractive to me for more than just appearance.
like for example every African American I remember encountering (I am not exaggerating either) just doesn't have that good balance of gentleness that I find attractive. there was only one that was gentle and I think the problem was he was too gentle.
although people of all races can have a pleasant personality, it is not pleasant in the way that is sexually attractive to me. it's not always explainable why it is not pleasant in an attractive sense but I am very aware of my feelings.
I know I should never say never but since every person of another race has not been attractive to me so far (which is a lot of people) it is at least safe to say that there is only about a 1 percent chance that I will date someone outside my race.

VerDeTerre

20th Oct 2011, 12:35 AM

I think some natural impulses compel people to seek mates - and that's what were thinking about subconsciously when we "date" - that have qualities that are either the same as qualities they possess or are compatible to them. For some people, they may see someone of their race and see those as the qualities that are the same. For others, they may not notice race, but might notice something else such as a preference for art, eye shape, or a quietness of voice. Of course, I am just speculating based on what I've observed about myself and others. I find it fascinating to consider what it is that motivates us.

Riptide651

20th Oct 2011, 03:36 AM

Well I think personally, it all depends on the tone of their voice when they say it, if they, like you know, say it calmly, its more of a preference, but with a bit of a sharper tone and attitude, it could be considered racism, also it has to be in some sort of context, so technically it could be both. All that matters is just the tone and context of the words themselves.

Volvenom

20th Oct 2011, 01:08 PM

well ... what about a statement like

"I usually only dates people like me, but because I don't wanna be a racist, I sometimes dates just for a day, the other kind".

kristie91

20th Oct 2011, 01:13 PM

SimsLover50

20th Oct 2011, 05:17 PM

It is prejudiced to decide before you meet someone whether you will find them appealing. Prejudice can be both favorable or not favorable. If after you meet someone- and you decide heck, his skin is too freckly/spotty/light/dark and you aren't attracted then to me that is different but if you decide beforehand that you never date member of x race because of an attribute then you are pre judging the situation.

There is a difference between prejudice and racism.

Now if you'll never date someone with dark skin because they are Black and you don't like blacks then you are probably a racist.

lemonez13

20th Oct 2011, 05:47 PM

I have honestly wondered this question a lot as I was growing up. I had multiple black guys ask me out in grade school, and I never did date any of them. More so, I think it was the personality that drew me off to be honest. And none of them ever seemed serious. So I never took it serious.

Think my Junior year, a black guy in my class asked me "Would you ever date a black guy?" and I honestly didn't know what to say, considering I thought it over before, all I could say was "maybe." Which I guess is the honest truth.

I've had some guys give the comeback of "it's cause I'm black isn't it?" and I think the first time I heard that I was all "is it?" and deeply confused myself. But I don't think that is what I held against them.

Considering I dated asian guys, hispanic guys, indian, etc. And never held anything against them. For the way they looked. Just never black guys. ._.

Not saying I haven't met any awesome black guys, I have a lot of great friends that are, its just the type of person I am does not go well with the average black man.

and now I feel terrible. lol.

Kilan

20th Oct 2011, 10:24 PM

Well, depending on how said person is putting it. If they're just being judgmental about the preference without cause, it's racism. I know a lot of people who are in interracial relationships (I mostly see White/Hispanic, White/Black, Asian/Black relationships in my area) and it makes me so happy to experience this.

Though I haven't really seen many people who would prefer NOT to date another race just because of the color of their skin-- I've recorded statistics and opinions on the matter as a part of my research paper in college. The individuals in my area makes up a small fraction of what I'm really trying to go for, but most if not all individuals I've interviewed told me that it goes beyond just the color of that person's skin, in their opinion. What really matters to them is how the guy/girl present their self to their partner, and the positive impression put upon them.

Now, I'm going to be a little real here. I'm a part-black guy, but not your "average" black guy. I'm never being judged by many people because of the way I am. Respectful, considerate, and proves to people I'm intelligent & a learning process in education. I've dated a black girl back in my earlier years in high school, but because she was so wild... and loud... and belligerent all the time, it turned me off. I've come across some other black girls that are the positive opposite of that, but they seem to be attracted to guys of other races other than their own. I've dated white, asian, and hispanic girls too and I felt good about that. At that point I knew I had the ability to get along with anyone regardless of their skin, but if their personality/presentation is terrible (anything related to what I mentioned above), it would seriously turn me off...

I'm not trying to come off racist or anything if anyone's capable of picking that up reading my text, but my preference is based on personality and presentation.

Riptide651

21st Oct 2011, 02:05 AM

@Volvenom

Well, if you specifically date a different race not to be "racist" its still kind of setting a preference, and indirectly saying a somewhat racist comment. In my opinion, the only actual way to not be racist is if someone asks, just say " I don't really mind, as long as they and nice, sweet, or attractive, etc." because if you aren't racist if shouldn't actually matter at all.

Weisskreuz

21st Oct 2011, 01:30 PM

To be honest I haven't really read any of the posts...
I don't think its racist. To me its just like preferences on rather you like tall or short, thin or fat. Its only racist if you start to judge other people who date other races. I don't know like cuss them out or do something to them... then it becomes racist..

Generally cursing someone out does not make you racist. Actually it never makes your racist, what are you talking about?

I don't think preference with in itself is "racist". I find exluding an entire "race" because you don't find ANY of them attractive is racist. You couldn't possibly have met every single member of a particular "race". How do you know you don't find any of them attractive? I think high-cheekbones are very sexy. I see them all the time on white/black men, mostly. But i'm not going to say I'll never date men of asian-descent because I haven't seen any with high-cheekbones.

Also, it's definitely totally racist when you put down some one for being a certain race or color in favor of another. Which usually happens immediately after someone expresses their "preference". For example...Isabela from Dragon Age 2. Liking a light-skinned, blonde-haired, Blue-eyed Isabela isn't BAD and while I am incredibly unhappy with the the mods (why is there more than one anyway?) that make her lighter, I deal with it because my Isabela will always be brown-haired, brown-eyed, and dark-skinned and the modder and every jacka** downloader that thought that making her lighter made her "better" can go f*** themselves. But referring to her original features and color, as "disgusting", "ugly", and "just too dark" and referring to her lighter self as "Improved"..Is so very racist I don't even know what to say to people that don't see that and say "IT'S JUST A PREFERENCE!!"

MaxQBaker

21st Oct 2011, 01:57 PM

I've heard so many people say, "I only date Black girls," or "I only date White girls." But would that be considered racist or a preference? Can skin color be a preference?

I agree with several other people here in that those statements would reflect a preference.

That preference, however, may mean that the person saying them is racist. (But from that statement alone, we do not have enough informatin to know.)

Personally, back when I was single, I didn't care about skin color one way or another for dating. if the person was nice and I thought they were pretty, that was all that mattered. I treated each contact with the question "if this person ended up being with me for life, how woudl I like to be with them" yard stick. A nice smile and good personality goes a lot longer than ANY surface looks.

Riptide651

22nd Oct 2011, 04:29 AM

I competely agree with MaxQBaker up there ^
l

DrowningFishy

22nd Oct 2011, 08:15 AM

"Everyones a little racist, sometimes. Doesn't mean we go around commiting hate crimes. Look around and you will find, no ones really color blind. Maybe it is a fact we all should face! Everyone makes judgements based on race." - Avenue Q ( Everyones A Little Bit Racist )

I admitt it is racist of me to decide whether or not to date one based on their race. But you know, I don't date other white people too because their looks. There is things I don't don't find attractive in people and you know some races, due to genetics, carry those traits. I will admitt I wouldn't date a mexican, middle eastern, or black just because I don't find them attractive to me. Also I wouldn't date a mexican because well, I live in Little Mexico, some of these men just-ug. Simply put one person can ruin it for the rest of them. But would I ever go up to someone and go "Your dating him he's (insert race or skin color here)"? hell no.

Being never racist is impossible. I was raised with the belief that the only way to never be racist is to hate everyone equally.

Weisskreuz

22nd Oct 2011, 05:06 PM

LadyKombucha

22nd Oct 2011, 05:37 PM

it's not racist. its the same as only dating blondes or having a "type"
on that note, i've noticed a lot of people suggesting that going for people with certain characteristics is shallow or silly. well, nope, its biology. a lot of people tend to seperate humans from other animals, like having the ability to make stuff and wear clothes makes us different. We're still just animals, and we still have instincts. so when we "date" what we're actually doing is looking for a mate to have children with. Granted, some of us have better control over those instincts then others(people who don't have the urge to breed, etc.), and some have less (like violent people, for example) but at our core we are still animals who run on instinct. i personally like chubby hairy guys. biologically speaking, its probably because i expect them to be able to provide security and defend our nest, as it were.

Also, Racism is in built, but that doesn't mean we have no control over it. again, its an animal instinct. ourselves and our family or "tribe" look one way, so as a baby, we become alarmed when we see someone who varies greatly from the "pack" and as they reach school and nursery age and start to socialise with a wider group of children, most will form friendships with races similar to their own. Babies also have a problem sharing toys and are highly territorial, but again, this changes as they get older.

CinderEmma

22nd Oct 2011, 10:53 PM

I don't believe it's racist, I mean, if you refused to talk or even befriend people from one certain race, then that's somewhat racist. But when it's your future partner, sexual attraction does matter. You can not be attracted to friends because of their race but still be friends. When it's a relationship, you have to want to jump in bed with them. I mean, personality and that matters too, but I know for myself I'll never date anybody who is Asian. I could date somebody with a more Columbian look, but I literally can't be attracted to an Asian guy. It doesn't mean I hate them, I personally would adopt a Japanese girl if I ever adopted, but you won't see me in bed with one.
I don't think it makes me a bad person or racist, just somebody who knows what they like and don't like. Just like I want red-head babies, but I'm more attracted to red headed females then red headed boys. I think I'm slightly bi? Probably not enough to make me date females, but enough to be very attracted to certain types of females.

Hellfrozeover

22nd Oct 2011, 11:38 PM

I don't really think it's racist if you're basing your choice simply on what you're attracted to. Some people like red hair, some people don't. Some people like skinny people, some people like curves. Some people like dark skin, some people like milk-bottle white skin....and everything between.

People have no real choice over what they're sexually attracted to but they do have a choice over whether they discriminate or not based on someone's race. The latter is a problem but I don't think the former is.

Miko09

23rd Oct 2011, 06:17 AM

Hmm...Interesting. It is a tough question. In the end the choice of who you want to date is solely up to you and no one else. BUT...and that is a huge BUT...the real question is why. Ultimately, other than some differences here and there, all males have a penis and balls and all females have funbags and a vajayjay(why do women have such funny names for their body parts? That a question for another day...)and in theory and practice, can safely mate with each other. So why would a person exclude a race/s from their preferences? 8 times out of 10 it is due to societal influences rather than genetic requirements. The funny part is that a good percent of the people who say they don't date ____ have not actually dated said race.

Ledgo

23rd Oct 2011, 06:51 AM

It's partially part of a sexuality and a preference. Whichever way you wish to look at it. I forget the topic, but there was a good discussion on a person's sexuality which involved how they look at the other sex or what they look in the preferred sex.

Let me put it this way-It's not racist you aren't or are only attracted to a certain race. It is part of your sexual identity and in my own opinion just defines what you as a person prefer. No more and no less.

Miko09

23rd Oct 2011, 07:09 AM

Ledgo

23rd Oct 2011, 04:51 PM

Sexual Identity is highly influenced by society and can not solely be based on one's own opinion. Especially if you live in a country that is not as "racially harmonious" as the US.

Influenced or not, it is who you are. In the end no one is forcing you to only date a certain race, or in general force your sexual identity-Only you have that call. The US is both racially intolerant, yet very tolerant. It all depends where you live and other non-sense I'm not dragging in.

No one can tell you who you can or cannot date if you are an adult. Only you have that choice on who you choose. Peer pressure and other elements may seem to pressure people either way, but it's mostly comes down to yourself. While someone may not wish to be public in the matter for what they may be viewed as or for whatever reason, they can still do it.

As much as our society influences either way of the sexuality spectrum, everything on it still goes. Interracial, interspecies, homosexuality, everything-It still happens despite what society will view on it, no matter if it's deemed acceptable or taboo.

CinderEmma

23rd Oct 2011, 11:57 PM

No one can tell you who you can or cannot date if you are an adult.
This is the only thing you've said that I disagree with, in a global sense. Many cultures have social, religious, and even legal consequences for certain relationship. To not follow the society's wishes in these circumstances would cause social isolation, which takes away the choice. There are many examples of this, arranged marriage (especially in very traditionalist countries), gay dating/marriage, etc. And yes, arranged marriage is marriage, not dating, but how many people with arranged marriages are allowed to date and have boyfriends before marriage without being labelled a slut or whore?
Anyway, this is slightly off-topic from dating based on skin colour, but I just wanted to say how your statement is a bit too generalized and doesn't always apply.

Mistermook

24th Oct 2011, 02:13 AM

Many cultures have social, religious, and even legal consequences for certain relationship.
Many cultures are racist.

Robodl95

24th Oct 2011, 03:36 AM

Many cultures are racist.
Very true, but her statement still applies.

Weisskreuz

24th Oct 2011, 04:32 AM

Influenced or not, it is who you are. In the end no one is forcing you to only date a certain race, or in general force your sexual identity-Only you have that call. The US is both racially intolerant, yet very tolerant. It all depends where you live and other non-sense I'm not dragging in.

No one can tell you who you can or cannot date if you are an adult. Only you have that choice on who you choose. Peer pressure and other elements may seem to pressure people either way, but it's mostly comes down to yourself. While someone may not wish to be public in the matter for what they may be viewed as or for whatever reason, they can still do it.

As much as our society influences either way of the sexuality spectrum, everything on it still goes. Interracial, interspecies, homosexuality, everything-It still happens despite what society will view on it, no matter if it's deemed acceptable or taboo.

Sure, but I can tell you if you preference is racist.

You don't seem to understand how much affect society has in how humans view things. It's so very hard to go against what you've learned from a very young age. No matter how hard you try YOU WILL fall back onto those teachings in certain situations.

I don't really think it's racist if you're basing your choice simply on what you're attracted to. Some people like red hair, some people don't. Some people like skinny people, some people like curves. Some people like dark skin, some people like milk-bottle white skin....and everything between.

People have no real choice over what they're sexually attracted to but they do have a choice over whether they discriminate or not based on someone's race. The latter is a problem but I don't think the former is.

I know a girl that identifies as black (as do both of her parents), she has curly light blond hair and green eyes, and medium brown skin. A guy that she liked, had expressed his preference for blonde hair but rejected her because she was a black woman. There are many more factors that go into preference other than just one.
It's not just "Hey, I like brown hair, I'm attracted to all brown-haired people EVAR!!! and that's the only thing that goes into my preference." It does not work that way. Some one might like "curves" but dislike large noses, dark skin, and kinky hair. Now, that's racist.

I don't believe preferences are set in stone. So, kind of iffy on this one.

DrowningFishy

24th Oct 2011, 07:13 AM

You know what I realized, it's racist for anyone to think everyone of a certian race is the same race has the same skin color.

Ledgo

24th Oct 2011, 03:34 PM

Sure, but I can tell you if you preference is racist.

You don't seem to understand how much affect society has in how humans view things. It's so very hard to go against what you've learned from a very young age. No matter how hard you try YOU WILL fall back onto those teachings in certain situations.

I know a girl that identifies as black (as do both of her parents), she has curly light blond hair and green eyes, and medium brown skin. A guy that she liked, had expressed his preference for blonde hair but rejected her because she was a black woman. There are many more factors that go into preference other than just one.
It's not just "Hey, I like brown hair, I'm attracted to all brown-haired people EVAR!!! and that's the only thing that goes into my preference." It does not work that way. Some one might like "curves" but dislike large noses, dark skin, and kinky hair. Now, that's racist.

I don't believe preferences are set in stone. So, kind of iffy on this one.

That's not racist. If he's not attracted to it, he's not. Did he act racist to her? If he did, that's another story that goes beyond dating, which isn't really part of the topic. No one is attractive to everyone, and it can be for a number of reasons. How was it racist because he didn't want to date a black woman? People will always find people they are attracted to and find no solice in. It's not racist, hateful, or anything else-It's what they're attracted to.

After a certain time, I think people find their preferences and they become semi-locked. I keep an open mind when it comes to race, as I've dated out of my race before. However, I don't feel attraction or any interest to date any weight extremes-I don't like skeletons nor do I like larger women in a dating sense. Does that mean I'm a jerk who doen't date someone because of their physical traits? No it doesn't, I just don't feel attraction to them. I still treat them as equal human beings. Though personality goes far for me, I dislike thoses traits because I don't feel comfortable with it. If someone doesn't feel comfortable in a relationship, it's not fair on them to be forced into it by society, they'd be seen as a bigot, weight extremeist, or whatever you may come up with.

It's not fair in the least sense someone is labeled something because he doesn't feel attraction or any interest to date a certain race. As long as he treats them as equal people, there is no harm in my own opinion.

As for the organized and prearranged marriages, I can't really give a counterpoint because those societies have vast differences compared to the ones I am familiar with. As much as I know, they're not really fair in that sense legally and what not. So I guess there is much more going on there.

SimsLover50

24th Oct 2011, 05:05 PM

I think its prejudiced to dismiss an entire race as undateable when you haven't met every member of said race. Unless ethnicity alone is an issue for you, then you would indeed be prejudiced.

I'm ok with people saying: "I've never met someone of x race I was attracted to yet," because you may have only met 1 or 2. " But I think its a bit silly to dismiss an entire race as the same when there really is a lot of diversity out there.

I'm also a bit surprised that people find skin color such a deterrant. Are people really saying if they found their soul mate and he/she was black/chinese/asian/white they would say no? Really? Seems a bit odd to let pigment slow you down.

Oaktree

24th Oct 2011, 05:48 PM

I don't really believe in "soul mates", as I think that any sort of relationship requires work and that a person can come to love more than just one person in his/her lifetime. I think that physical attraction is important to getting people to open up to the idea that they might be compatible with a particular person. So, yes, if a person had a personality that was compatible with someone who had features they didn't find attractive, I think that a lot of people would overlook that person as a potential mate. Think of it in slightly more extreme terms: let's say you are a straight woman. You meet another woman who has all of the personality traits that you want in a partner, but it never even occurs to you to think of her that way. You just don't consider women as dating material, so your first thought on meeting this person is "let's be friends", not "let's hook up". It might never occur to you that this person would be a good intellectual match for you because you just don't think of her that way.

I think this is something like what happens when people meet those that they might be compatible with, but don't find attractive. They look first to the person as a friend, and may not think of that person as anything more, and may not be happy with being anything more. Sometimes people might be able to eventually look past the physical aspects that they don't find attractive, or to find something attractive about the person, but it isn't going to happen in every case, to everyone. I would also point out that there are some physical traits that do have an impact on the more physical side of a relationship, though skin color is trivial in this regard, so it would be somewhat off-topic to continue in that vein.

SimsLover50

24th Oct 2011, 06:38 PM

hmm, not sure i would go so far as to equate skin tone with sexual orientation. Whether you believe in soul mates or not, the point really is, would a person you find otherwise extremely compatible and of the appropriate gender for your preference, would you turn them down solely because of the pigmentation in their skin? Is that criteria really such a deal breaker?

Oaktree

24th Oct 2011, 07:13 PM

I did say it was a more extreme case. But, yes, for some people, skin pigment plays a major role in attraction. I think that some of the people who find skin pigment important are capable of looking past it if they find someone they are compatible with, while others aren't. It probably depends on how set that person in in his/her idea of beauty. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to close yourself off to certain ideas of beauty, but it's unavoidable in some cases. Most people aren't able to consciously change what they find attractive.

SimsLover50

25th Oct 2011, 03:46 PM

Tastes and what is attractive to a person can change over time as a person matures, and this is purely a result of exposure and people changing their mindset as they grow. There also may be a concious element of ditching old prejudices which may be involved if a person finds their own selection too narrow. It also can go the other direction- people's criteria on what is attractive can narrow.

Skin pigmentation can run the gamut across the races. I am curious if those who wouldn't date a person with black skin, would date a black person with light skin? Some blacks do have light skin. My neighbor for instance is albino and African American and her skin is lighter than mine.

LadyGreenEyes649

30th Oct 2011, 05:59 AM

Interesting question. Not a simple answer, either.

In some cases, I think it is probably as simple as a personal preference. What features people find attractive can vary a lot. Some have a set "type" that they prefer. My oldest likes guys with dark hair, "cuddly" build, and brooding/moody personalities. Personally, I (according to people that know me) apparently have a fondness for "scoundrels". So, with some, it's surely nothing but a preference.

In other cases, there could, in fact, be some racial issue involved. That is more complicated. The person could be racist. That, sadly, still happens, and it isn't just one group that has all the racists, either. Or, the person could believe that, because of the various racial issues, that dating someone of a different race would cause problems, and they might want to avoid those, and so avoid dating people of another race. These days, that isn't always as big an issue as it used to be, but it can still be a problem in some areas/cultures/etc.

Then, I suspect there is another group; people that specifically seek only someone of another race, for some societal reason. Like, they might want people to think they are more open, so seek to demonstrate this in their dating. Sort of a statement. Or, they might think the culture of the other race is more interesting, and thus seek out that race to date.

If someone said they only dated "whoever", I would probably ask their reasons.

LadyGreenEyes649

30th Oct 2011, 06:28 AM

Let's remind ourselves that Asians, Arabs and Caucasians are all white. I would also count some Latin Americans and Indians in this but I'm not sure where they lie officially. What about albino black people? When someone says "I only date white people" most of the time they really mean originated from Europe or someone who looks and acts like they do (no afros, muslim scarfs, etc.)

Well, scientifically-speaking, there are only four races. Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, and Aboriginal. Caucasoid being what people consider "white", but this also includes Mediterannean and Latin people. Negroid being "black". Mongoloid is Asian, and this includes the American Indians, as they initially migrated over the Bering Strait. Aboriginal is, I believe, now seen as distinctive from the others. According to the latest genetic studies (and wow, has this changed a LOT over the years), Neanderthals are once again considered another race, though (mostly) gone, with only traces showing up in people today.

I think your point is that many base such choices on cultural issues as much as actual race, and that can be very true. A case of being attracted to what you are used to, perhaps. Some like what is familiar, though others seem to like what is different, and, to them, exotic. Complicated things, people. :D

LadyGreenEyes649

30th Oct 2011, 06:34 AM

*snip*
And it's not really comparable to prefering blondes or brunettes or redheads because there's no history of organized and pervasive prejudice or negative stereotypes against any particular hair color. (There are stereotypes but not on the same level in most societies.)

Sure there is - ask any blonde! :lol:

LadyGreenEyes649

30th Oct 2011, 06:42 AM

If that is the case, then my instructor's presentation is either biased or outdated or not in depth.

I think it would be a case of confusion over the terms, and not entirely the fault of the instructor, either. Assimilation and integration are what works for the United States, but lately, multiculturalism is being pushed, and pushed HARD, and this, in fact, causes division instead of unity. A lot of people don't understand that multiculturalism isn't the same thing the country has done since the beginning, so I can understand the instructor getting the issue a bit confused. More accurate to state that the United States has more different racial diversity than many countries.

ElementMK

30th Oct 2011, 06:59 AM

http://i.eho.st/pj6jhszs.jpg

Quadruple posting is in bad form. If you want to quote multiple people, open the thread in another tab and copy what you want to quote to your reply.

Dreamydre

30th Oct 2011, 07:13 AM

I for one do NOT understand how you can be attracted to someone solely based on their skin-tone. That is like me thinking a black guy is attractive but turning him down just because he's black. It's a different thing if it just so HAPPENS that you're only attracted to people within your race, but when you go out of your way to not date someone solely because of their skin-tone, that is definitely an indication of racism, my dear.

Lawli-Lawli

1st Nov 2011, 12:44 AM

KeiraLou

1st Nov 2011, 01:04 AM

I think it depends on the situation and personal preference, if you don't find someone attractive because they are too light or too dark then I wouldn't call that racism. I know plenty of white people who don't find fellow white people attractive and have pretty much always dated blacks, but it doesn't make them racist to their own skin colour, it's just their personal taste.

Having said that, if you don't want to date someone because of their race and you look down on them for the colour of their skin then that in my eyes is racist.

Dreamydre

1st Nov 2011, 06:02 AM

I'm kind of in between.

I can see how you couldn't be attracted to certain races because a particular race has specific physical attributes that may be unttractive, but then, who cares about the looks?

You could meet one hell of a guy/gal if you got passed all that mess....

A particular race has specific physical attributes? Please elaborate on this assumption, without a through explanation you come off as slightly ignorant.

unalisaa

1st Nov 2011, 08:14 AM

A particular race has specific physical attributes? Please elaborate on this assumption, without a through explanation you come off as slightly ignorant.
A particular race doesn't have specific physical attributes? Please elaborate on this assumption; without a through explanation you come off as slightly ignorant.

How do you think people differentiate between races?

Mistermook

1st Nov 2011, 08:59 AM

Monkeys are hairy. Humans are less so.

Please everyone: Do not attempt to seduce the monkeys. They are not the same race as humans/throw poo.

sim3playa22444

1st Nov 2011, 11:14 AM

Would it be considered racist if an African American man only wished to date white women? Would that make him racist to his own skin color?

I think not. It's a preference. :|

Misanthrope

1st Nov 2011, 12:43 PM

There's a difference between saying,

"I don't date X race because I don't find them physically attractive"
"I don't date X race because I believe they are immoral/intellectually inferior/etc."

While the first one is on the shallow side, I wouldn't call it racist.

SimsLover50

1st Nov 2011, 04:22 PM

We are talking about skin color, not race, and the two arent' mutually exclusive. Afterall, Indians from India are considered Caucasoid and they can have very dark skin.

To me, deciding only one race is undatable is prejudiced. You are dismissing an entire race of millions as undatable sight unseen. Depending on why you consider them undatable then it could be racist as well.

Miko09

1st Nov 2011, 07:57 PM

Would it be considered racist if an African American man only wished to date white women? Would that make him racist to his own skin color?

I think not. It's a preference. :|

That's actually a big controversial topic within the AA community. It goes a lot deeper than just "preferences". Believe me...you do not want to open up that can of worms :blink:

Lawli-Lawli

2nd Nov 2011, 12:22 AM

A particular race has specific physical attributes? Please elaborate on this assumption, without a through explanation you come off as slightly ignorant.

Thanks.

A particular race doesn't have specific physical attributes? Please elaborate on this assumption; without a through explanation you come off as slightly ignorant.

How do you think people differentiate between races?

He beat me. :gjob:

unalisaa

3rd Nov 2011, 07:10 AM

He beat me. :gjob:
Glad to have been of-

He
Oi!

Dreamydre

6th Nov 2011, 02:21 AM

To me, deciding only one race is undatable is prejudiced. You are dismissing an entire race of millions as undatable sight unseen. Depending on why you consider them undatable then it could be racist as well.

Exactly!

"You're cute, but I'm sorry, I can't date you because I don't date people with your skin tone" :wtf:

"Apology accepted. I don't date racists anyway."

A particular race doesn't have specific physical attributes? Please elaborate on this assumption; without a through explanation you come off as slightly ignorant.

How do you think people differentiate between races?

What I am saying is that you can't automatically base certain features on certain races. People of any race can have a variety of facial features outside of their races "specific physical attributes". The certain physcial features that all non-deformed people have are two eyes, two ears, one heart, two lungs, two kidneys, one liver, one large intestine, one small intestine, one pancreas, one mouth, two nostrils, two arms, two breasts (yes, men too), and two legs.

Thanks.

You're welcome, glad I could help :up:

5M0K3

7th Nov 2011, 04:43 AM

While I would never completely ban a race from dating me, I can say I typically don't date Hispanic men. I have a lot of Hispanic friends - but I don't find myself attracted to Hispanics. Am I racist? To me, no. To you, maybe. But if I met someone who is Hispanic but went with all my standards, I most certainly wouldn't mind dating him. And I'm sure the reason I don't typically date Hispanic men is because of the fact that *most* Hispanics in San Antonio are slightly ghetto. I said "most" not "all". I have nothing wrong with them.

Birdhouse

21st Nov 2011, 11:26 PM

It's a preference just like hair color.

5M0K3

22nd Nov 2011, 12:18 AM

Is it homophobic to not want to date someone because of their sexuality?

No. No for that, and no for this.

Mistermook

22nd Nov 2011, 12:19 AM

Well, except for that whole part of people never being enslaved because of the color of their hair, or beaten to death, or marginalized in society, I guess race is exactly like a hair color.

EDIT: And if you're just saying you prefer blondes like you prefer Indian men, then I'm not completely sold that it's exactly racist - but it's still very strange to ignore the significance of race by equating it with something that people really don't seem to beat each other up about.

5M0K3

22nd Nov 2011, 03:28 AM

Mistermook

22nd Nov 2011, 04:16 AM

Gays have been discriminated against PLENTY, and obviously a straight man doesn't want to date a gay man.
AAaaand if you'll check my post time and yours, you'll be quite welcome to note that you came in just moments before mine apparently, I wasn't talking to you, and you can be pleased that I was talking about hair color = race and not anything remotely resembling sexuality.

But thanks for getting your knickers in a bunch over a ninja'd post. I'm always happy to have criticism leveled at me for a post I never saw.

5M0K3

22nd Nov 2011, 04:22 AM

AAaaand if you'll check my post time and yours, you'll be quite welcome to note that you came in just moments before mine apparently, I wasn't talking to you, and you can be pleased that I was talking about hair color = race and not anything remotely resembling sexuality.

But thanks for getting your knickers in a bunch over a ninja'd post. I'm always happy to have criticism leveled at me for a post I never saw. I know you weren't talking to me. But I have the right to say whatever the hell I want. I don't know where you come from, but I come from America, and here, there's a thing called The First Amendment.

Just because different races - practically ALL races, INCLUDING Caucasians - have been discriminated against, that doesn't mean you're a racist. Hitler thought the "perfect" race was blonde hair/blue eyes, so if someone prefers blondes with blue eyes, are they automatically a Nazi? Maybe we should pelt them with stones because they have a preference, just like everyone else?

SimsLover50

22nd Nov 2011, 05:03 AM

5M0K3

22nd Nov 2011, 05:25 AM

Actually, hitler thought the perfect race was a person of German Teutonic origin aka Master Race Aryan of Nordic Descent. It was the nordic blood. Blondes with blue eyes are seen in all the caucasian races, and some of the non-caucasian races too in small numbers. I've never seen a non-Caucasian with natural blonde hair, and I've rarely seen non-Caucasians with blue eyes. I suppose I should've pointed that out, that it wasn't JUST blonde hair/blue eyes. Thank you. :)

singing_Noel

22nd Nov 2011, 05:28 AM

Racism is simply hating someone because of their race, and race alone. So it's pretty well in the context of the word itself. I don't believe you'd hate someone just because you're not attracted to them physically.

Plus, people aren't aware, but physical attraction is all science. Especially when it comes to men, preferences just tend to come from experience, and one's surroundings. You have to be willing to take into consideration that not every country is a racial melting pot like say the US. Some only have on race, or skin color, and thus they use other reasons to make preferences. Like social class, religion, and location. My husband is white and blonde, and admits he'd never willing date white and blonde girls, because there was such an abundance of them in his hometown they bore him. So he tended to be attracted to foreign women since they were rare, in his eyes, and different. This situation could work the other way as well, it just honestly depends on the person.

Otherwise, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, most people would be more likely to set aside race, or skin color for other more important things, like a big butt on a woman, or a freckles on a man. In the end however, this concept brings it all back to race, since a big butt on a woman is by social standards more commonly seen on Black or Hispanic women, and freckles on men are seen much more commonly on Caucasian men.

So, in short, no it has nothing to do with race, it's just easy to assume it does.

We were all put on this Earth to procreate, had God intended to make us all look the same today, we would have all looked the same to begin with. So mingle peoples. Plus, we all know mixed babies are the prettiest babies. Mine's proof.

; D

HystericalParoxysm

22nd Nov 2011, 05:34 PM

http://i44.tinypic.com/55kugg.jpg

If you cannot post without being rude, then do not post. This is your warning - ignore this message at your own peril.

5M0K3

22nd Nov 2011, 05:50 PM

http://i44.tinypic.com/55kugg.jpg

If you cannot post without being rude, then do not post. This is your warning - ignore this message at your own peril. Was that directed at me or someone else? If it was directed at me, then sorry.

Dordracio

7th Jan 2012, 07:11 AM

No its not its all on your taste. I dont date any black girl and never plan to. Its just that i dont show any taste toward black woman. No not racist

Christine11778

8th Jan 2012, 10:30 PM

I think it is a preference. How many people want someone who is fat, skinny, blonde, brunette, tall,short etc. These might be shallow preferences, but we do base a good chunk of our partners on their looks. If these are the only criteria you use in picking a partner it is probably not the best thing, *BUT* that is another topic entirely.

AlexandraSpears

9th Jan 2012, 12:07 AM

If you have a preference based on race, that's no one else's business. It's your own personal preference. If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to. It doesn't necessarily mean you hate people of other races; it simply means you'd rather be with the race you prefer.

morphius1

12th Feb 2012, 06:39 AM

To each his own. This decision should be made by you, reguardless of what others say.

SimsLover50

13th Feb 2012, 08:59 PM

Oaktree

13th Feb 2012, 10:43 PM

When you prejudge what you would do before hand, you are being prejudiced. Until you've met every single person of <insert race>, how would you know how you would never be attracted?

To me a preference is something you favor. But it is not concrete, or exclusive. A person may prefer Hispanic partners, but still date other races. Saying you would not date a black man or woman is not a preference. Prefer means to 'favor' or 'hold above another.' If you absolutely will never date anyone who is black, that is not a preference.

I will repeat something I said earlier, that I think it's best to be open to the possibility of dating people outside of your race because superficial characteristics are not a good basis for a relationship, to preface my comment, so that people don't mistakenly jump on me, thinking I'm a racist.

I think you are relying purely on semantics here. Some people talk about what kinds of food they like as their preferences, and they "strongly prefer" not to eat certain things. If starving, a person who strongly prefers not to eat asparagus, would probably eat it. If incredibly lonely, a person who strongly prefers not to date a person of another race might do so. But, under normal circumstances, those people will not pursue the things they strongly prefer not to. These can be considered preferences, or if you don't like the word preferences because you can't see beyond its dictionary definition, these examples can at least be considered morally equal, so long as there is no underlying opinion of the superiority/inferiority of another race. Sometimes skin color just happens to be a physical characteristic that people have strong preferences about, just like how some people prefer blondes, brunettes, or redheads. It is possible for people to form preferences based on purely superficial characteristics.

Again, I do not think that purely superficial characteristics are a good basis upon which to choose one's partner, but sexual attraction is an important part of a romantic relationship and, if a person's attractiveness to a particular person relies partly on skin tone, it doesn't make that person a bad person.

mirandamkj

13th Feb 2012, 10:54 PM

I'm white and I've never dated anyone who's black. That being said, I live in a town that is vastly white - we're talking two or three black families compared to several hundred white families. Same goes for other races, such as Asian. It's just an issue of me not knowing many people of other races. I wouldn't be opposed to dating someone of another race, as long as I was romantically attracted to them. I don't think of interracial dating as being taboo. As long as two people are happy in a relationship, I don't care and I don't think anyone else has a right to protest that either, whether the couple is of opposite races, genders, religions, or anything else. It's nobody's business!

SimsLover50

14th Feb 2012, 02:13 AM

I think you are relying purely on semantics here. Some people talk about what kinds of food they like as their preferences, and they "strongly prefer" not to eat certain things. If starving, a person who strongly prefers not to eat asparagus, would probably eat it. If incredibly lonely, a person who strongly prefers not to date a person of another race might do so. .

Maybe, however it is tough to see people dismiss an entire cultural group as undatable because of a pigment tone, especially if they've never dated someone of that ethnicity, also there is usually a wide range of looks and skin colors in each individual racial group.

I do think it is important to examine to some degree the origins of preferences, and whether it can be honestly called that, or whether it is simply a lack of familiarity. They aren't the same thing. For instance, as a child I might not have been exposed to certain foods and thus I might not choose to eat them or might be reluctant to try something new because of a fear it would taste bad or because of unfamiliarity. As an adult, I've learned that new stuff/ foods can sometimes be good. So hmm... Lack of exposure and lack of experience with something you've never done before... Hmm. Is not the same as being not attracted to it.

but sexual attraction is an important part of a romantic relationship and, if a person's attractiveness to a particular person relies partly on skin tone, it doesn't make that person a bad person.

I agree. We aren't entirely in control of the things we like or are attracted to, and without being in a person's head it is tough to determine a person's motivation for anything. But I don't honestly think I could ever say I could NEVER do something. Because there are always exceptions to every rule. And as one ages, tastes can mature and change and things like skin tone, ethnicity and appearence matter less.

In general, I do agree with you it is best to keep your options open, and not limit yourself by superficial traits. Looks are fleeting, but Love can last forever.

Oaktree

14th Feb 2012, 02:46 AM

I can see how some people would make that kind of snap judgment based on a lack of experience with others of another race. And that would be foolish. And I wasn't defending everyone who has a racial preference in partners. I know that some people who have a racial preference are racists. But I thought it was important to point out that that sort of preference should be judged on a case-by-case basis. Some people have bad reasons for preferring not to date a particular race, but some people simply have a preference, which can't be helped.

opiumgirl

14th Feb 2012, 09:03 AM

I've never seen a non-Caucasian with natural blonde hair, and I've rarely seen non-Caucasians with blue eyes. I suppose I should've pointed that out, that it wasn't JUST blonde hair/blue eyes. Thank you. :)

Really? Where I live this is quite common. In my town there are a lot of interracial relationships. I am convinced that all the interracial breeding is why we have some of the most beautiful women in the world!

Having said that I have not dated anyone of a different race, simply because I have not met anyone that I am romantically interested in.

I have friends of different races and they are great, but I would not date them. I think cultural differences matter more than color of your skin because we even have two distinct White cultures not to mention the different Black cultures and the Cape Colored's (that is what they call themselves) and the various Asian cultures.

It is great to have friends from different cultures because that way you learn that there are more ways of doing things and seeing the world than your own. I do think that it is more difficult in a romantic relationship simply because your assumptions and references are not always the same even if you think they are.
That said, mixed couples do work and I see no problem with that. When my daughter is old enough to date I wouldn't dream of telling her who to date! It is an entirely personal thing.

StardustX

14th Feb 2012, 01:36 PM

rac·ism noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

____

I do think it's wrong to say to someone "Oh. Well I like you as a person but we can't date because I don't date *insert race* people." It would definitely seem racist to the person on the receiving end of that statement but it isn't always racist.
I'm not physically attracted to anyone that isn't white. Not any particular race, just anyone who doesn't have light colored skin. As SimsLover said though, there are different skin tones among even darker races. I would probably date someone that was a "lighter-toned" or mixed Black/Hispanic/etc. if I found them attractive and liked their personality.
I've had friends of all races that I am/was very close to but I was never physically attracted to any of them because white is my preference.
It doesn't mean I'm racist. I don't think I'm superior because I'm white or think that anyone else is inferior because they're not. If I thought I was better than these people, then I would be racist.
And yeah. Personality matters more to me. I'm not shallow and I'm definitely not all that great looking myself. But I'm not going to date someone I don't find attractive.

Darthreven77

14th Feb 2012, 08:47 PM

agree with StardustX completely.
I prefer women who are White, Asian, and Indian but to me that is just appearance-based. Race wont stop me from dating someone I like as a person. Though to some appearance is a lot (not to me) but it is only part of the equation.

Mistermook

15th Feb 2012, 12:23 AM

[i]I do think it's wrong to say to someone "Oh. Well I like you as a person but we can't date because I don't date *insert race* people." It would definitely seem racist to the person on the receiving end of that statement but it isn't always racist.
But isn't that enough reason to not ever say such a thing? Just because you have never dated an overweight person, does that give you the right to tell another person "No thanks, I don't date fat chicks?" Correcting hateful speech is almost as important as correcting hateful thoughts and behaviors. If something is abusive and/or could be perceived as painting yourself as a racist, or really just any sort of shallow person in general, then should you say it unless your intent is to be abusive and/or appear racist? Unless it's absolutely explicit that you're not racist, should you ever do something that might make you appear racist? Racism is pretty ugly, absolutely socially inappropriate stuff - when it is okay to play around with language in a way, or take actions that might lead people to believe you're racist?

It's wrong to judge people on the color of their skin, but humans are going to judge people - words and deeds don't seem particularly inappropriate metrics, not dating someone and then explicitly stating you don't date them because of their skin color... how could that not lead people to start thinking of someone as a racist?

Oaktree

16th Feb 2012, 06:36 PM

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. I do think that people have a right to say whatever they want to say, and that other people have a right to judge them accordingly. I think it's "okay" to use language in whatever way you want. No one has the right not to be offended. In terms of actions, I think everyone has the right to act in any way that doesn't hurt/coerce others. Saying that you don't want to date someone, for whatever reason, isn't coercing that person into anything, and the only thing being hurt is that person's feelings, which isn't a form of violence and is something that can't be helped sometimes when the desires of two different people don't line up.

I think it's perfectly fine to choose not to associate with someone who expresses racist opinions, and it's something I'd do, myself. That person expressing those opinions doesn't have a right to your company. But, ultimately, I think you're trying to make a moral argument about something that isn't a moral issue. Initiating violence on someone is wrong, regardless of your reasoning, but your opinions have no moral character. You are as good or bad as your actions, not your beliefs. A person with racist opinions is not someone I would find pleasant to spend time with, but it doesn't mean that person is inherently a bad person if he/she isn't actually hurting anyone.

Mistermook

16th Feb 2012, 11:34 PM

I think you're absolutely wrong, and racism does make you a bad person. There are degrees of bad people of course, but racism is so inherently destructive to society it's hard to say how a racist could be a "good" person. And why demonstrate racist speech for any reason other than to demonstrate poor manners?

Oaktree

17th Feb 2012, 01:30 AM

Racism is only situationally destructive. It's only destructive if a person willing to act violently holds those views, and, in that case, it is the violence that is wrong. In a person who holds those views, but is otherwise peaceful, it's distasteful, but harmless. Morally good things are worthy of reward/praise and morally bad things are worthy of censure/punishment; something that isn't worthy of either of those categories is not something that should be considered a moral issue. If you still think it's a moral issue, ask yourself whether you think it's really right to punish someone for thoughtcrime.

Mistermook

17th Feb 2012, 02:24 AM

Again, I disagree. It's entirely destructive. It's inherently the belief that people are less then you for nothing more than things beyond their control. Whether we "punish" something is irrelevant to whether it's right or wrong. Socially there are entire classes of crimes that aren't morally wrong, but are damaging (or not damaging) to society. That doesn't invalidate them as crimes, and neither does a thing's lack of punishment dismiss its moral imperative to eliminate it. I care less if someone is secretly racist than explicitly racist, but that doesn't excuse it. I care less if someone isn't "really" racist and only speaks the words but isn't racist, but that doesn't mean the words themselves aren't harmful, that the propagation and prolongation of racist ideas (whether intentional or not) isn't itself harmful to society.

So yes, you're free to be a racist. Thinking racist thoughts isn't, and shouldn't be a crime. But it still makes you a bad person. Compare that to drug addicts: Drug addiction is illegal, it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person in the sense of maliciousness. It makes you a criminal. It might make you weak. And that's irrelevant to whether you feed your addiction or not.

Oaktree

17th Feb 2012, 02:40 AM

My contention is that things that are harmful to others are wrong, though. I'm saying that, if you do something to hurt someone else (beyond the small emotional upsets that are unavoidable), you are doing something wrong. But racism in and of itself doesn't hurt anyone. It is only harmful when paired with other behaviors, and it is those other behaviors that are doing the actual harm. If you think that racism is harmful in-and-of-itself, I want you to provide an example, because I don't see it as being harmful in-and-of-itself.

Again, I think it's perfectly reasonable to choose not to associate with someone who is racist, but that choice is made as a matter of personal taste, and is not a universal moral statement.

Mistermook

17th Feb 2012, 07:06 AM

And I'm saying that every racist is harmful, because racism is harmful to society whether it's a skinhead beating up a black man or it's a quiet racist who simply doesn't associate with Koreans because "they all look alike." Racism is antisocial, because it's anti-society, because it's a trick of light: There are no races, only the human race. It harms the racist and it harms people who associate with the racist, by narrowing the socializations that naturally branch from any individual, solely based on a fiction of difference that doesn't exist. Allowing racism to exist even dormant, without taking turns acknowledging it's destructiveness only allows it to fester. Just because someone only has murderous thoughts doesn't mean they're a murderer, but neither does it suggest anyone should stop trying to keep a lid on those sorts of things - people's internal feelings have an unfortunate habit of spilling out into their external actions, and in several cases those actions are disagreeable enough that at the very least it's important to keep telling people they're disagreeable. Prime their pumps with consequences and peer pressure, so to speak.

Can you provide an example where racism is good, and/or being seen as a racist is something that moral people could possibly see in anything less than a negative light? On the other hand, perhaps you're getting hung up on "bad people." Everyone has asshole friends. Just because someone is a racist doesn't mean they can't change, any more than any other negative personality trait usually brought on by ignorance and/or monkey instincts can't be (and should be) corrected. But to excuse racism is to empower racism, simply because one racist is a monster curb stomping his way into prison and another racist is a mild mannered accountant, doesn't make one's racism better than the other one. It just means that in addition to the poor social grace to be a racist, one of the guys is also violent. Violent behaviors are antisocial too. No matter who you are, you associate with bad people of one flavor another. Maybe some of you aren't particularly good people yourselves, to one degree or another. I'm certainly not perfect, but I think it's important to acknowledge destructive behaviors in yourself and others whether it's racism or whatever. You can't simply wave away something socially upsetting just because it's not the worst example of socially upsetting behaviors, it's important to demonstrate awareness of such things. Just because someone is a bad person because of "X behavior" isn't a death sentence, it's something to fix.

Or perhaps you're even getting weirder: A racist who never acts in a racist way, never even so much as to disassociate by action or inaction or subtly influence others? That's a theological question: If something exists but no one can ever tell by any metric, does it exist? It's such a narrow ledge of semantics I mostly say it's as irrelevant as trees falling in the wilderness where no one hears them. If it's unseen, unheard of, and unknown then for all practical points it doesn't exist. That doesn't excuse it either, it simply makes it irrelevant until such time as it changes. It might be interesting as a thought experiment, but in general I find touchy-feely koans that simply plot language without actually doing anything or providing some point of useful reference kind of silly.

Or maybe your Big L libertarian streak just rejects that there should be any social contract whatsoever? Social anarchy, everyone minds their own business until they ape out and start up with the politics of sticks and matches again?

simsample

17th Feb 2012, 01:07 PM

Please be polite.

Mistermook, you are becoming insulting, which is not good for a debate. Please do not post in this thread again today.

opiumgirl

17th Feb 2012, 01:48 PM

SimsLover50

17th Feb 2012, 03:11 PM

Racism can influence others, especially children. It can have a poisioning influence on the impressionable. A racist parent, can influence a child to think those values are ok. It has a poisioning influence in my opinion.

Oaktree

17th Feb 2012, 05:38 PM

@Mistermook: I'm not entirely sure what you said that is considered insulting; you started into slight ad hominem, but nothing really insulting. In any case, I'll make my post and wait until you're able to post here again tomorrow.

I think the place where we don't see eye to eye is where you seem to be implying that society has a right to include people in it that don't want to be included in it. I think there is nothing inherently wrong with someone being anti-social. If a person decides to simply keep his own company, he isn't hurting anyone. He isn't helping anyone either, but I don't think that people have an absolute obligation to help others. It's nice to help others, but it's not wrong to not help others. In the same vein, if someone chooses to only associate with those of his/her own race, those not of his/her own race don't have any right to association with that person, so it's not wrong for that person not to associate with them. Basically, people should be thought of as individuals. No individual can coerce another individual into association, so, even if a person selectively chooses to associate with individuals with certain characteristics, he/she should be free to do so. Choosing to only associate with individuals with certain characteristics is not harming those individuals without those characteristics, and therefore, those who quietly hold racist views and only act on those views in non-violent ways are not morally wrong. Those who act on those views with violence are, as I stated before, wrong because of the use of violence.

No, I can't provide an example where racism is good, but that doesn't disprove my point. I said that it isn't a moral issue. It isn't good or bad, it's just a personal taste. In the same way, I can't provide many examples of people who consider themselves conventionally moral who practice poly relationships, but that doesn't make a poly relationship morally wrong. A lot of bible thumpers will tell you that unconventional relationships like that are destroying society by subverting marriage, but I don't think that society really needs conventional marriage to function smoothly. It's just a matter of taste. And I don't think that not actively punishing racists empowers racism. Not actively punishing something doesn't mean supporting it. It is possible to take a fairly neutral stance on something. In my case, I don't "punish" racists, though I do choose not to associate with them. That may be a deterrent to racism, if the racist in question has some reason for wanting to associate with me. Further, I think that our society has largely transitioned to a more enlightened view of racism. Most people who are filled with hate for other races are the way they are because they were taught to be. Our society is teaching that kind of hate less and less. I think, eventually, the majority of people will be taught to view others as individuals whose worth is determined by their personal characteristics, not things they have no control over.

I do reject the "social contract" that people like to say we engage in. I didn't agree to any contract, and there's no way for me to escape the contract, so the use of the term 'contract' is incorrect. I don't think that the concept of a social contract is wrong, as long as it is actually agreed to, so I think that polycentric law would be an acceptable alternative to the current system. In any case, I am a voluntaryist, which makes me a "small l" libertarian.

Lawli-Lawli

18th Feb 2012, 05:59 PM

There are no races, only the human race.

You just made my day...Thank You.

Racism can influence others, especially children. It can have a poisioning influence on the impressionable. A racist parent, can influence a child to think those values are ok. It has a poisioning influence in my opinion.
Indeed. Good example of that is of this kid I knew who believed racism is genetic....
His family is/was and so is he.
Sad.

Dreamydre

11th Apr 2012, 03:17 AM

I haven't posted in this thread for awhile, but this quote by Mistermook sums up the entire debate.

There are no races, only the human race.

All people who choose to not date black men, black women, asian men, white men, white women, whatever the color or ethnicity they scratch off their list, are discriminating simply because of skin color, and not on character, heart, religion, humor, career, any number of other factors that can determine how well we get along with someone. I have yet to be convinced that choosing not to date a beautiful and intelligent black woman (or the like) because you don't like her skin, isn't considered ignorant or racist.

Zennia

3rd May 2012, 02:40 AM

Choose someone for the things you have in common and not for what you look like on the outside. Though people will certainly be attracted to another by what they look like, when you have been with someone for awhile, you begin to see the exterior counts very little. It's about being like-minded. Find someone who thinks like you, who has the same aspirations, likes, desires, etc.

So if you think about what i just said, two people who are of the same culture, regardless of anything else, will have a better chance at a successful relationship than two opposites that are attracted to each other for a short while. People who are of the same culture have more in common with each other than those who are of different backgrounds.

It's so elementary.

MintyBitty

3rd May 2012, 03:15 AM

I think that there's a difference between not dating someone because of their race, and not dating someone because generally people of that race tend not to suit your "type", the second example being not racist but maybe a bit picky, the first example being quite racist and prejudiced.

Drakesecaravdis

10th May 2012, 01:05 PM

hmm well I haven't posted to this thread in a while and I don't care if my lack of attraction to other races make me racists because I just don't give a sh!t what random people think about me. I personally know a racist and I am not like him at all and I can't stand it when he judges people like that. is this hypocritical you say? everyone is a little hypocritical and I do not think this is more hypocritical than the average person.
I know many people are saying "well you don't know all the people of that race. there are billions of people in this world" true but if I've come across a few females I like (I say this because I never thought I'd even be slightly bi) but not a guy of another race then the likelihood would be so small that it wouldn't even be worth mentioning. generally using the word never wouldn't be a great idea but in this case, it's not as bad and people use the word epic all the time but do we have a problem with that? never is not like using the word hate or anything else that is similarly negative.
plus I mean I'm boy crazy so that's one thing that makes the likelihood so small. I am certainly picky with guys but picky=/racist

also if you call me racist, you might as well call me homophobe for not being attracted to gay people. maybe I'm also against married guys too since I'm not attracted to them (I know these are probly for different reasons though)

anyway I don't think it matters if people don't find someone attractive because of their skin color. I have ugly eyes (one is wonky), I look way younger than I'm supposed to be and if someone didn't want to date me because of it, I would totally understand. I wouldn't want to date me either. appearance plays an important role in a mate because it's like a puzzle. if it doesn't all fit then it just won't work.
sure looks are fleeting but if you're going to spend a lot of time with someone, you need to be attracted to them first. I'm not sure if this makes any sense but think of it as like a movie. in order to be interested in seeing one, the trailer needs to draw you in. in other words the trailer is appearance in this case. some people need more than that, they need other clips to make sure they want to see it. the attraction lasting a while would be the clips.

you may not believe me when I say I haven't found the inside of everyone I've encountered of another race attractive but it's true. I think we are confusing sexual attraction with a platonic admiration here.

maybe you still disagree with me because I'm not making any sense to you or you misunderstand me (I get misunderstood a lot). in that case, I do not expect to make sense to other people. I'm an Aquarius so I do believe that I'm detached from this world. I often feel so different than everyone else (you can call me an alien.) so my preference/attraction would be no exception. maybe this is why I'm a bit of a loner.
I also know that if we all agreed with each other than the world would be boring so I welcome all disagreements. I just thought I'd make this post to shed some new light onto my perspective

this was an essay >.< I'm not good at condensing and hopefully I didn't make some points that were redundant from my last post...oh well it can be good to reiterate when you're adding stuff as a good memory refresher right? esp if you write as much as I do.

SuicidiaParasidia

11th May 2012, 08:44 PM

the thing is, about the "well you dont know everyone of that race" argument, is that thats NOT how the human mind works. it does not NEED to know all of the people in the world to form and apply a judgment. if it did, we'd all be dead for lack of being able to say "hey, that guy in the overcoat in the alleyway with a knife and evil glint in his eye looks funny, i think i'll judge him as scary/unpleasant and walk the other way now". judgment serves a purpose, in most RATIONAL creatures. its there so that you dont go leaping off of cliffs for hope that they might be different from the other cliffs youve leaped off of.
its a nice theory and all, but "you havent met everyone, you cant make that call" pales in comparison to a series of negative experiences. and since nobody is colorblind yet, it serves no real function other than being just another pretty saying like "guns dont kill people, people do"--i think the gun helps.

if a person meets enough people of a specific ethnicity that drive them up a wall, i can hardly see how theyre NOT supposed to think badly of the entire race. theory only goes so far; if in person, every single person youve EVER met from that specific race has been a jerkwad to you...the next time you see a new face of that ethnicity, you will not be able to think "hey, i bet hes alright, because people from that culture seem to have a TREND of being alright". it will be "ew, a black/white/brown/whatever person. walking the other way now", and while its not politically correct, it is justifiable. and NOT racist, seeings how you are not going out of your way to discriminate against them, however, it IS prejudice.
..but not without a little help from the "other side", if its one of those cases where the majority of the people you encounter of that race really do act like jerkwads. tolerance is a good idea, but tolerance of rotten behavior is a dangerous endeavor.

i believe, as a general rule for ALL races, people should be aware that no matter what your demographic is, it reflects badly on everyone else when you act like a jerkwad. if enough people of a certain race act like jerkwads, i think that has something to do with people becoming prejudice against certain races when it comes time to date someone, but on the other hand...who exactly is ever OWED a date, simply by being a minority? im a woman, im a minority--should every person i ask out be forced to date me, because they dont know me well enough to judge me as a woman? what about homosexuals? its not FAIR when a straight person falls in love with a homosexual person, but it happens, and should that homosexual person be made to date the straight person because thats unbiased? or visa versa? everyone has biases. even skin color preference, is a bias. but its not necessarily racist or malice-based.

additionally:
@SimsLover50: i dont think that pertains to everyone. children may be small and underdeveloped, but they have a habit of shaking their parents teachings off if theyre rebellious/intellectual enough. for example, my father was racist. highly racist. i couldnt bring my other friends around him because he'd say really rude things, but i couldnt talk back to him about it because he was one of those "old fashioned" parents that rewarded critical thinking/"disrespecting your elders" with a cuff upside the head.
now, did he WANT me to adopt his views? possibly. but he could never make me accept them, because through public school i had gained the experience of having friends who were black, who were hispanic, who were asian...these people that i observed my father insulting on a regular basis. and i knew these people were not the things he was saying they were. thusly, i could mentally give him a middle finger and ignore what other hateful filth spewed from his mouth and decide for myself to not discriminate against others based solely on their skin color. and i recall this point in my life, i was only around 10-11 years old. so please dont think that ALL kids are incapable of differentiating between reality and parental influence.
...but then, i do also realize that kids these days arent exactly encouraged to use their heads. theyre more told that they simply cant grasp these things, because they are currently inferior to adults. which...is NOT a productive frame of mind.

Elyasis

15th May 2012, 07:54 PM

Is it sexist to not want to date someone based on their gender?

Is it ____ to no want to _____ someone based on ____?

Maybe this is just one of those "not my type" constructs I keep hearing so much about.

kerryanne13

15th May 2012, 09:20 PM

I normally tend to find white guys more attractive in that "OMG he's soooo hawt" kind of way and yes I think it's shallow because I'm 38 and should be past this reaction. But just because I find a person visually appealing isn't when I make my decision that I'll actually try flirting with them no matter what their skin color is, I have to get a gauge of their personality. If their personality compliments mine I then find myself truly attracted and then try dating them. For instance, I was never really attracted at first sight to a lot of guys no matter what color they were, but I lost my heart to a woman finally *lol* I don't find myself attracted to other women, just her so it's sort of weird. But my true attraction is to a person's personality, not what is on the outside.

paksetti

16th May 2012, 12:20 AM

I, personally, think that people these days in society have an obsession of race. They either are TOO worried about being racist and are scared to even make a remark to a black person such as "you're so lucky you don't have to worry about being tan", (which is totally not racist), or completely rude and without regard for others.

If any of you want to disagree with me about anything, go ahead, but this is how I see life and it will not change unless I see a better way to look at things. So if someone is going to disagree with me about something purely based on opinion that I've said, you clearly have no regard for other people's thoughts. I'm sure that some of you will not agree with me but please just mention your opinion, but don't try to contradict mine.

Wow, that's quite the speech.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that I can disagree with what you've said based purely on opinion, and if you disagree with me, then you clearly have no regard for other people's thoughts. I don't see why your opinion should be protected against anyone who may politely disagree.

That whole "you don't have to worry about tanning" thing just seems a bit presumptuous. I don't know if I'd exactly call it racist, but unless you know that person well, it just seems like a really rude thing to say. Not everyone aspires to be tan, and clearly you have no regard for other people's personal style.

clearly just no regard at all. :turtle:

SuicidiaParasidia

16th May 2012, 01:37 AM

So if someone is going to disagree with me about something purely based on opinion that I've said, you clearly have no regard for other people's thoughts.

so if someone cant disagree with you based on what youve said, what exactly are they allowed to disagree with you based on? what somebody else said?
and why exactly should i have regard for anyone elses thoughts, if those thoughts are false/silly/inaccurately formed/presented badly? why is regard an entitlement?

and disagreements are usually contradictions. contradictions are opposing ideas. how is someone supposed to disagree without contradicting you? the end of your post sounds like one giant "dont disagree with me"! ...ironically, "dont disagree with me" is among one of those most disagreeable ideas out there.

daluved1

16th May 2012, 07:55 AM

*stumbles in*

I was literally just having this conversation a few hours ago with my (African American) boyfriend. He told me that I look like the type of black girl that would only date white men...whatever that means. When I told him that I would never date a white guy, he asked me to explain why.

Basically, I told him that there is no real justification, it's just a preference. I'd rather date my own race because it's what I like. And, if I were to date outside my race, it would only be with a darker skinned Hispanic guy. I don't know, I just like my colors to match.

I don't think that it's racist to date someone based on their skin color, as long as that's not the only thing you're focused on. I would never say that only dark skinned people are attractive to me because boy are there some hot white guys out there (I'm looking at you Christian Bale!), but when it comes down to it, if I had to pick someone to get into a serious relationship and settle down with, it would be with someone of my own race/color.

piggypeach

17th Jun 2012, 03:43 AM

I know this is an old thread, but the post that I made above was one that I didn't think through at all and I was incredibly tired and in a bad mood. I'm sorry to anyone that was offended or... or just didn't like it. I didn't mean to say "you can't disagree with me" I meant to say "you can't contradict an opinion, because it's an opinion, and not a fact, and there is no right or wrong". That was a rude thing to say as I had intended it to be, but it came out wrong and sounded 10,000,000 times worse. Of course everyone has the right to disagree with me, and again I'm sorry to everyone.

mickeymouse254

28th Aug 2012, 03:25 AM

Well a gay person stating that they only date men doesn't make them sexist, it just means their aren't attracted to the opposite. If you aren't attracted to black people/white people/asian people etc. then I dont see the problem

kithri

28th Aug 2012, 04:18 AM

Daluved1 said:
>>Basically, I told him that there is no real justification, it's just a preference. I'd rather date my own race because it's what I like. And, if I were to date outside my race, it would only be with a darker skinned Hispanic guy. I don't know, I just like my colors to match<<

LOL!

I really think it is just a preference for many people, what makes your heart beat a little faster. There may be some who wouldn't date out of their race/ethnicity/whatever because they are racist, but I think it's more common for people to simply like their colors to match :)

On the other hand, I have a male Caucasian (Irish) friend who ONLY likes Asian women. He doesn't care what type of Asian. I had another male Caucasian friend who ONLY liked Hispanic women. I had a Caucasian female friend who would date lots of different men but REALLY LIKED black (not African American, because they could be Nigerian) men. A few of my Asian friends only dated Caucasians. Yeesh! Were they reverse racist? I don't think so, I think they just liked what they liked, like rocky road or chocolate chip.

For me it doesn't matter, it only matters that the guy be a good person and the same religion as I. I've had crushes on all kinds of men of all races...but I just melt over Irish accents. Ha!

kiwi_tea

28th Aug 2012, 05:44 AM

Well a gay person stating that they only date men doesn't make them sexist, it just means their aren't attracted to the opposite.

Apples with oranges. Gender is a biological category, and homosexuality almost certainly has a biological basis as well. Gender preference is just a completely different kettle of fish to racial preference. Gay people don't really have a choice, or their ability to choice is radically limited. Race is a social category, not a biological one. Skin colour is biological but as DrowningFishy observed, it doesn't equate to race. I'm Polynesian and I have white skin and features like an Irishman. Saying I'm "white" or "Polynesian" is not very informative in most social spheres, it's just a trivial label that race-realists attach a heap of unjustified tags onto.

There's a bit of bad science in this thread. For example:

Well, scientifically-speaking, there are only four races. Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, and Aboriginal.

This is just nonsense. None of those are discrete, identifiable, consistent categories, and this is a very dated attempt to shore up the tenuous notion that races exist in any meaningful biological sense by defining them through geography. There is a sense in which Mistermook is right, there is only really one race, and it's the human one. There's also a sense in which races are real social categories we've carved out, like churches or nations. Not biological, just social. There's as much genetic variety within races as between them, and what constitutes a "race" is incredibly arbitrary. Kenan Malik is an excellent writer about race. He notes:

"Defining someone by their continent of origin [which is the basis for the "four races" hypothesis] is really to establish in which of the first major migration their ancestors took part. For instance, to say that someone has African ancestry is to say that his or her ancestors did not make the journey out of Africa. To describe somebody as a 'Pacific Islander' is to suggest that their ancestors made that very first journey along the coastline of Arabia and Asia and across the sea to Australia. We have seen that about four per cent of total human variation comprises differences between the major Continental groups. That four percent is a reflection of the genetic differences between the various bands who made those original journeys. Does it transform contemporary descendants of those original wanderers into distinct races? That is not a question science can answer, because it is a question of how one wishes to interpret that difference.
'Geographical origins do not in themselves constitute races', the philosopher Naomi Zack writes, 'and to assume that they do in the absence of comprehensive supporting human evolutionary data is an egregrious bit of flimflam that begs the question of whether or not there are races.'"
- Strange Fruit; Why Both Sides are Wrong in the Race Debate

Frankly I think the main problem is people treat race as some sort of informative category. It's really not. If you're looking at another human being and assuming their bone structure and skin colour can tell you very reliable information about who they are - you're being racist. If you're looking at another human being and their bone structure and skin colour gives you a boner/ladyboner, you might want to examine whether that's because you've been heavily influenced to find those features attractive, but it might not be harmful unless you're shooting down nice people left right and centre and doing yourself and others a disservice just cos they aren't your desired skin-colour. But the same thing kind of applies if you're shooting down people left right and centre cos they're not your desired height.

Personally, I find it hard not to feel it's douche-y to select lovers based on skin-colour or height. But then, I melt for an accent. So I'm a hypocrite, aren't I?

kithri

28th Aug 2012, 06:11 AM

No, I think it just means you like accents. :luff:

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as that wingnut Freud said.

One more thing: when a person is dying, the last sense still functioning is the sense of hearing. (I was a hospice nurse, and my experience bears this out, although I am not sure if there is scientific proof. It would be difficult to document, in any case.) When an infant is in the womb, the main connection to the "outside" is through hearing. It is the first and the last sense that tethers us to the world.

I will never forget the moment I stepped off the train in Amsterdam and felt so....at home. There was this weird familiarity that I couldn't understand. I'd never been to the Netherlands before...didn't know any Dutch people. Listening to the magical musical jingling of the Dutch language, it hit me: everyone sounded like my grandma, who had died years ago. She was Belgian, but the similarity was striking. I had been completely unprepared for this gut reaction to Dutch.

Just some interesting observations, at least to me.

For the record, I'm of mixed race, Native American and various flavors of Caucasian. =P

PolterGeist44

1st Sep 2012, 07:34 PM

I don't think it's racist, it's just a preference, like favoring mayo over ketchup.

Personally, I wouldn't ever date an Asian. They just turn me off, for some reason.

Phoeberg

1st Sep 2012, 09:31 PM

It's definitely just preference. It's highly unlikely that I would date an Asian guy just as it's highly unlikely that I would date a blond guy (although I have dated an Asian guy and a blond guy in the past). I'm not saying never, but generally I do have a type I'm physically attracted to so it seems unlikely. I don't like saying I have a 'type' based on looks because that implies that I'm shallow and only judge on looks, which isn't the case, but it is pretty important to be physically attracted to your partner.

GnatGoSplat

4th Sep 2012, 09:30 PM

Yeah, not many women are attracted to Asian men, and that includes Asian women! Story of my life (I'm an Asian man if that wasn't obvious). I don't think it's racist when women are honest about not being attracted to Asian men, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt just as much to see other people say it.

To be completely honest, I never wanted to date Asian girls. It's not because I find them a turn-off or anything, but mostly because they make me think of my sisters. I've never wanted to date anyone I look like I could be related to. I think it's because I've always had really low self-esteem. In my mind, I always thought if people saw me with an Asian girl, they automatically jump to the conclusion that she's my sister. I would feel like people are thinking, "look at that poor nerdy Asian guy, when he's not at home crunching numbers and solving equations, he's hanging out with his sister because he has no life". So I have always preferred to be seen with white girls as there's no question she's not my sister. Well, it's not just that, I do really find girls to be more attractive when they look NOTHING like me. That's why I prefer blonde hair over dark hair like mine, pointy noises over flat blunt ones like mine, and pale porcelain skin over darker skin like mine. It's one thing I disagree with in the attraction feature of Twallan's Woohooer mod... it bases attraction on similar facial features, but I am the opposite, I find people who are different to be more attractive.

Anyway, thanks a lot, white girls of America, for being the root of my self-esteem issues and I appreciate through your honesty that my poor self-esteem is thoroughly warranted!

missy harries

4th Sep 2012, 10:10 PM

kithri

5th Sep 2012, 01:02 AM

@ GnatGoSplat---Some of the cutest guys I've ever met were Asian! Too bad one of them was married, darn it all.

ella_in_wonderland

5th Sep 2012, 12:53 PM

Of course it's not racist, it's just a prefrence. It's racist to go up to someone with hate speech because they're a different colour to you. It's not racist to be more attracted to someone of a certain race over another (the body wants what the body wants). HOWEVER, If you know someone personally and refuse to date them because of their looks I guess it is a smidge racist, but then again some people are shallow. I regard rasicm as negative speech/actions against people of different races, not how much you're attracted to someone! Unfortunately, people are so sensitive about race.

Phoeberg

5th Sep 2012, 01:15 PM

GnatGoSplat, my best friend from high school is the opposite of me, aside from her first boyfriend she only ever dated Asian men. As I live in a predominantly white area I haven't met that many Asian men. Out of my entire class at high school (it was an all girls school) there were less than ten Asian girls out of a year of around 180, about 6%. So statistically I suppose it's not surprising that I haven't found many Asian men attractive - there just haven't been that many around here to be able to find attractive. I can only think of three Asian men I currently know; one is in his forties and married, one is 18 and friends with my little brother, and the third one has a long-term girlfriend. Not dating material! On the other hand out of the vast mumber of white men I've met the chances were I was going to find a few of them attractive just due to the sheer number I've encountered.

McChoclatey

5th Sep 2012, 01:34 PM

I'm surprised this thread's still up, unless it was necro'd. :lol: I made this such a long time ago, I even forgot I made it.

GnatGoSplat

5th Sep 2012, 04:17 PM

@Phoeberg - your high school sounds a lot more diverse than mine was! I grew up in an all-white area, I think there were 2 Asian girls and 3 Asian guys (including myself) in my high school of approximately 1200 students, one of them was a foreign exchange student. I guess I was "that guy", the one all the white girls used as a reference to think Asian guys are not attractive. D'oh! Well, I did have my moments. There were times I'd have 3 or 4 of the prettiest popular girls surrounding me, trying to talk to me in Spanish class... about my homework answers.

I didn't realize it when I was younger, but I eventually came to learn that not being considered attractive is a pretty normal thing for Asian males.
http://www.ampedasia.com/article/5-Asian-Male-Stereotypes/
http://reallythink.blogspot.com/2005/04/sucks-to-be-asian-male.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060822164035AArGyXC

I'm glad I don't have to worry about that any more, but I admit that hearing real people say it brings back old feelings and insecurities. In a way, I think it offers me a unique perspective because I know what women go through when they feel like an unattractive ugly ducking. I know of some ugly white guys who will think a chick is all into him because she smiled at him. I'll never understand that kind of confidence!

SuicidiaParasidia

7th Sep 2012, 09:50 PM

Awwww GnatGoSplat girls who would say that aren't worth it anyway.

But I think it's just shallow to disregard based on race. Yes it is a matter of preference and there may be Cultural differences but if you find that person you just click with does it really matter what skin/hair/features they have? I think not.....

im sorry, but no matter how inwardly beautiful the elephant man is, there is no way i would have sexual relations with him. i dont think that makes a person shallow..just, not blind.

and thats what physical attraction boils down to...the draw to bind genetics with another human. if they LOOK hideous to you, chances are, there is something in their genetics that you dont want to merge with, for whatever reason. the science behind physical attraction is actually quite fascinating. (for example, people tend to find symmetrical faces attractive, as an unsymmetrical face can be an indication of a genetic abnormality.)

someone could be a fantastic person, but its not fair to them or yourself to force yourself to have sex with them if they do not sexually excite you.

and generally, i have not met a person who has fallen in love but refuses to date someone who is outside of their racial preference. i really dont know anyone who would do that. twitterpation-love, after all, is a blindingly intense flurry of brain chemicals (that i refer to fondly as "happy juice"). there is a bit of difference between simply not finding a shade of color/type of texture/shape of facial features attractive, and being a mind-numbingly in the closet racist.

but when it comes to dating, everything is optional. i am lucky to live in a country where women are not forced to marry someone in particular, so it is my freedom to dictate who i do and dont want to date based on whatever criteria i have personally decided as being sufficient. trying to shame others into dating outside of their comfort zone will only breed resentment on their part, and entitlement on the others'. i said it once, i'll say it again: nobody is OWED a date based on their cultural status, whichever it might be.

missy harries

8th Sep 2012, 02:19 PM

im sorry, but no matter how inwardly beautiful the elephant man is, there is no way i would have sexual relations with him. i dont think that makes a person shallow..just, not blind.

I think comparing the elephant man to dating outside of one's own race is a bit extreme.......

and thats what physical attraction boils down to...the draw to bind genetics with another human. if they LOOK hideous to you, chances are, there is something in their genetics that you dont want to merge with,

someone could be a fantastic person, but its not fair to them or yourself to force yourself to have sex with them if they do not sexually excite you.

Hmmmm well, the most jaw droppingly gorgeous person on the planet can suddenly become ugly once you realise what a twat/idiot/>insert whatever personality turn off< they really are and that not so good looking guy up the road really can seem more attractive if you know what a fantastic person they really are. There is more to sex than looks and it's not just looks that can turn a person on. Besides, once the lights are out we're all the same.

(that i refer to fondly as "happy juice")
I love that!

there is a bit of difference between simply not finding a shade of color/type of texture/shape of facial features attractive, and being a mind-numbingly in the closet racist.
I'm aware of that.

trying to shame others into dating outside of their comfort zone will only breed resentment on their part, and entitlement on the others'. i said it once, i'll say it again: nobody is OWED a date based on their cultural status, whichever it might be.
I'm not sure where this came from :wtf: whos shaming who!
But I still stand by my previous statement. I think it is shallow and I'll be honest here, I generally don't find Indian men attractive but to disregard the Indian dude before he's even given a chance just because he doesn't conform to my Irish boy aesthetics is what I'd call being shallow because people can be beautiful no matter what race they are and if you can just look past the skin/hair/whatever colour then you could have found someone to really make you happy. Is all I was trying to say.

Would you consider that disregarding someone of the same race because (lets just say) thay have blonde hair as being shallow?

Shoosh Malooka

9th Sep 2012, 06:00 AM

Racist is when you like to see a group as a whole fall behind, fail, suffer. It's when you celebrate at news of their misfortunes and tragedies and spit whenever they take a step forward. If that's why you won't date their race, then yes it is racist. Ask yourself that before you hang your head in shame and wear a sign in public that reads "I will not date x because I am bigot!"

I wish I could articulate my thoughts better on this topic like the rest of you, or maybe it's just my laziness.

SuicidiaParasidia

16th Sep 2012, 06:06 PM

I think comparing the elephant man to dating outside of one's own race is a bit extreme.......

possibly, it is. but my point was just that looks do matter when it comes to romantic endeavors. nothing is purely on a personality basis, and its unrealistic to think that its all that "should" matter. (i might add, in a perfect world where looks dont factor in to anything and everyone falls in love for personality, disease, famine, and poverty dont exist and neither does doctor phil.)

Hmmmm well, the most jaw droppingly gorgeous person on the planet can suddenly become ugly once you realise what a twat/idiot/>insert whatever personality turn off< they really are and that not so good looking guy up the road really can seem more attractive if you know what a fantastic person they really are. There is more to sex than looks and it's not just looks that can turn a person on. Besides, once the lights are out we're all the same.

this is true. but again, i just think its unrealistic to say that only one system of judgement is valid.
sometimes, it is just looks that can turn a person on. personally? im not into casual sex with strangers, but i imagine that people who are into casual sex with strangers, dont care at all about what a horrible/fabulous person their prospective partners are. and if that gets their rocks off, i couldnt be happier for them. but thats because i respect that different people can have different standards and not be judged as "shallow" for not having the standards or beliefs that i do.
(and i flat-out disagree with "once the lights out we're all the same".)

I'm not sure where this came from :wtf: whos shaming who!
But I still stand by my previous statement. I think it is shallow and I'll be honest here, I generally don't find Indian men attractive but to disregard the Indian dude before he's even given a chance just because he doesn't conform to my Irish boy aesthetics is what I'd call being shallow because people can be beautiful no matter what race they are and if you can just look past the skin/hair/whatever colour then you could have found someone to really make you happy. Is all I was trying to say.

Would you consider that disregarding someone of the same race because (lets just say) thay have blonde hair as being shallow?

again, that is your reasoning and you are entitled to it. but your reasoning, and your standards, and your beliefs, are not universal set-in-stone facts, nor should they be hoisted onto others if those others are doing fine in another way that suits them better. beauty is not objective, it is subjective, and you cant "make" someone find someone else attractive if that simply isnt what gets them excited. they shouldnt have to be shamed about it if this preference isnt formed out of malice.
happiness is also subjective, and there are many people out there who can "make you happy". passing one by who would genuinely make you very uncomfortable to settle for isnt the end of the world. being single doesnt make you less of a person, or even magically less happy than anyone else.

and, no. i would not consider disregarding someone of the same race because of their hair color as being shallow, if it simply didnt fit the persons preference. i would consider it a quirk, but not necessarily one that makes either of them less of a person...like judging them as being racist, would.
because when it comes down to it, liking or disliking colors doesnt make you racist.
unless you are ready to kill them because they asked you out while daring to look a certain way, i seriously doubt "racist" is a term that applies to a person who simply doesnt find a certain (set, even) of skintones, eye colors, hair colors, etc, appealing.

now if you asked me if i would consider disregarding someone of the same race because of their hair color being an obvious outward sign of their inherent inferiority as a specific ethnicity of person shallow, then yes, i would, and i would also call that racist.

ie, if someone refused to date me because they find brown hair ugly, i may be a bit puzzled, but thats when i realize that i am not going to be beautiful to EVERYone, and move on. this person doesnt owe me any of their time, and i dont owe them a lecture on how i feel unfairly rejected. life isnt fair...dealing with it is part of what separates adults from children. having different standards of beauty than i do, isnt enough for me to soundly call them racist or shallow.

picass0blue

15th Oct 2012, 07:00 AM

More on the subject of finding similarity/difference attractive - I have a cousin of the opposite sex who looks virtually identical to me in all important ways. We could be mistaken for siblings. However the people I've been most attracted to have looked dissimilar to me, either genetically or because of the way they choose to look. I am most drawn in by personality, especially the way the person portrays it creatively (via function/form choices with clothing, makeup and body mods) or to express their needs. Despite it being mostly a personality/portrayal thing, I have an overwhelming preference for people who look unlike myself, whether naturally or not. I actually have very high self esteem, and my need to be myself/authentic fuels (I suppose) a need for others outside the family to LOOK noticeably different to me by any appropriate means, including platonic friends. Could this be rooted in reproductive instincts?