The ignorance of parents.

[Roseblossom90]

I'm sorry but I have to say something here. What is it with all of these parents being complete idiots when it comes to their children? I have only been a mother for three months but even I know not to stick my child on the roof of my car and drive off, or take her out of her carseat so I can strap in a gas can. And just last week a man was hiding out close to where I live because he beat two little children to death in their carseats.
Children are precious gifts from God (or any other greater being, whatever religion you may be). They shouldn't be treated the way they are being treated. There are so many people out there who long to have a child of their own and are not able to that would make a little child's life the things dreams are made of. It just doesn't seem right that people who doesn't want their children and treat their children badly can pop out as many as they want when so many people suffer because of their inability to recieve the blessing of a child.
I am sorry if I stepped on any toes with this but I had to say something or I was going to go insane.

[iCad]

The fact of the matter is that some people who have kids shouldn't be parents. Just as some people who acquire a dog shouldn't be a pet-owner. Thing is, they often don't realize that they're not cut out to be parents until AFTER they have a kid...and then they're rather stuck. And then sometimes the pressure builds and they just snap and then truly horrible things happen, from neglect to outright abuse to...worse.

It's tragic, of course, but we're all human beings. It's easy to judge when you don't know the whole story and you're not living the life of another person. Mind you, I'm not excusing brutal behavior toward children, but I'm also not going to demonize anyone without knowing all the facts. Because I know that at my darkest times, when my kids were younger and getting seriously on my nerves and I was under a lot of huge pressure for various reasons...Yeah, the dark side was looming. I looked into the face of it...and, thankfully, I turned away. But I saw enough to see the allure of the dark side, as it were, and I can understand how people succumb to it. It's amazingly easy when you're in the right place. Or the wrong place, as the case may be. Again, I'm not trying to excuse abhorrent behavior in general, much less when it's directed toward children. I'm just saying that I can see how/why it happens.

And, of course, people can be stupid and can be absent-minded and can make incredibly stupid decisions that seem like a really good idea at the time. I can't count the number of things I've left on a car roof and then driven off, from a cup of chai to a bag of groceries to a toolbox to a laptop to...all kinds of things. Granted, I've never left a baby up there, but it doesn't shock me that there are people absent-minded enough to do so.

Congrats on the new baby, BTW. :)

[Rawra]

You know what parent ignorance is to me, amongst other things? Slapping makeup on your 8 year old and making her think she's mature enough to have a boyfriend, then also buy her every gadget Apple has ever created, and, when she's older, actually be surprised that she's a whore, that she's drinking, taking drugs, etc. I know the meaning of "giving your child everything you can", but goddamn, I see 11 year olds crying about their broken hearts and whatnot, tweeting about it on their iPads and hating their parents for not providing them with other stupid things they should not have at their age. It also applies to boys, because they dress them like douchebags, and also forget to educate them (the kids, both boys and girls); when I was their age, I didn't have the guts to go to a 20 year old (aka me) and swear at them and call them names. Completely fucked up generation.

It's probably not what this thread was actually about, but it's a form of ignorance I see so often, I feel like beating the hell out of parents who are like this.

[paksetti]

Someone reads tosh.0 blog (http://tosh.comedycentral.com/blog/2012/06/07/protect-your-loved-ones/).

[fraroc]

I think we should give kids more time to be kids, It really is sad that because of this sick society, they have to act so grown up now.

[Roseblossom90]

I was 17 when I had my first boyfriend. It wasn't until I had my second boyfriend (now my husband) at 18 that I began dressing the way that I see eleven-year-olds dressing now. Heck, I was 15 before I even knew what sex was. Now I am not saying that I believe parents should hold off that long to have 'the talk' with their kids, far from it. But I had the long innocent childhood that I hope my daughter to be able to have. I don't want her coming up to me at the age of thirteen or fourteen and telling me that she's pregnant or crying over a 'broken heart'.
And iCad, I see your point with children getting on their parents nerves. I honestly do. But I just believe that they should be able to find another way than beating their kid. I mean, my father has been deemed unable to work because of anger and mental problems. And yes, he has raised his hand towards me before, but when I was a kid my parents knew they couldn't take care of me the way I needed they let me live with my grandmother. Even now when I have taken all I can of my daughter's screaming I rurn to my grandmother of her father. And I know that not all people have the support that I do but still I am sure they could call somebody if not even a nurse or something for support.

[iCad]

And iCad, I see your point with children getting on their parents nerves. I honestly do. But I just believe that they should be able to find another way than beating their kid. I mean, my father has been deemed unable to work because of anger and mental problems. And yes, he has raised his hand towards me before, but when I was a kid my parents knew they couldn't take care of me the way I needed they let me live with my grandmother. Even now when I have taken all I can of my daughter's screaming I rurn to my grandmother of her father. And I know that not all people have the support that I do but still I am sure they could call somebody if not even a nurse or something for support.

In an ideal world, that would happen, yes. But the world is not ideal. And a lot of people have very poor impulse control, and it seems to be an increasing problem. (Or maybe it's just that it's more highly-publicized now, I don't know.) Thankfully for you, your parents weren't among those impulse-control-challenged people. Fortunately for my kids, neither am I. But a lot of people aren't so blessed, especially when under pressure, and unfortunately, a lot of THOSE people have kids who suffer for it. It sucks. It's rotten. But, as I said, I can see why it happens.

And unfortunately, we can put all the resources in the world out there for people, but they won't always use them, for a variety of reasons, from "they simply don't know that resources exist" to "they don't want to admit that they have a problem and need help." It's unfortunate...but that's the world.

[Roseblossom90]

As I said, I do understand your point, iCad. I know some people refuse to admit they have a problem, I am among them with some things. I understand some people don't have the knowledge of the resources available to them. It just pains me that children are the ones who pay for their parents' shortcomings.
But I am not talking about only beating their children. I am talking about people who will leave their very young children (four years old and under) alone for hours at home while they go out and get drunk. About people who will leave a single diaper on a baby for an entire day until it almost falls of of them it is so full of waste and has caused sores so bad on the child that they bleed. There is no excuse for behavior like this but pure ignorance.

[Mistermook]

Eh, I think it's a mistake to think that people are merely being ignorant and evil to children. Humans are pretty much evil and ignorant to everyone and everything in varying degrees. It's not that these are bad parents, it's that they're bad people... who then have children.

[Mistermook]

I think we should give kids more time to be kids, It really is sad that because of this sick society, they have to act so grown up now.
Heh, because kids had more time to be kids in the past, when it wasn't uncommon to get married at 14 and work in the mines because tiny lungs used less oxygen.

[iCad]

In the end, some people aren't fit to be parents...but are anyway. If your priority is partying and having fun with your pals and getting drunk and such, then parenting isn't for you. Good parenting is all about self-sacrifice: You put your wants/needs second to those of your child. IMO, if you're not willing to do that, or at the very least if you don't realize that that's what you have to do and you do it even though you don't really WANT to (That's me, most of the time, because I'm not really ideal maternal material; it's easier now that my kids are self-sufficient), then you're not fit to be a parent.

But people have kids for many reasons and the children are not always wanted, and in those cases the parents' wants overrule the child's needs. I wouldn't call it ignorance so much as extremely misplaced priorities. We also can't dismiss the fact that some people with reduced mental capacity and/or mental disorders will have children, as well. Those people are often incapable of properly caring for children without outside help, through no fault of their own, and when they don't have help, that often results in gross (on many different levels, like your diaper example) neglect. My friends who foster children could tell you some TRUE horror stories about that. And about a bunch of other circumstances as well.

Like you said, it's kind of tragic that irresponsible people who don't really want kids but have them anyway can pop out babies as easily as they breathe while some people who really want and would properly care for a baby can't have them. It sucks. I wish the world was different...but it isn't.

[Saturnfly]

People will either be good parents or bad parents, somewhere there's an instinct that tells you that, and when you know you should never have children because you have a temper, or drinking/ drug problem, or anything which would have a major effect on a child's life, should just get themselves sterilized, or use multiple forms of birth control.

I would love to have a child one day (just one, lol), but atm I can barely afford to look after myself, let alone a dependant young human being.
I also have anger problems, definitely not an appropriate time to raise a child. I wish more people could understand their circumstances better, and realise the difference having children would make on their life, either for better or worse.

The parents are also not 100% to blame for preventing child abuse, child welfare groups who are paid to make sure children are safe, don't always properly do their job. If they did, I'm sure a lot more children wouldn't have died in cases of extreme child abuse.
I also don't think that it's always bad people that have children. Sometimes being a parent can bring the worst out in you. In the circumstances when babies and toddlers die from being shaken violently, it is obviously the result of someone who is incapable of coping with parenthood. Family members and friends should be able to pick up on when someone is having problems, what really angers me is when they ignore the signs and their own instincts.

[Roseblossom90]

Bad people could be good parents the same as good people in general can be bad parents. Perhaps I should have made that more clear that in their parenting skills some people are ignorant or 'evil'. But either good or bad in general if they are mean or neglectful towards their children then they are bad parents.

[fraroc]

Heh, because kids had more time to be kids in the past, when it wasn't uncommon to get married at 14 and work in the mines because tiny lungs used less oxygen.

Im just saying that back in the 90s and 80s there was more time for kids to behave like kids and think like kids, nowadays these companies DELIBERATLEY try to get to kids to buy their stuff. Back then, 7 year olds didn't have iPhones and iPads. I had a little VTech plaything that was shaped like a computer and took freakin' CASSETTE TAPES. I had X-men action figures! (Remember, I was born in late '92)

Now if kids don't act a certain way or do certain things, they get left out in the dust. :cry:

[Roseblossom90]

All of the examples that I have given are true as well as recent, most within the last week or two. And I know the world isn't going to change, if anything it will just get worse.
And as far as people not having the resources to care for their children such as money problems, what have you, I am not pointing this at them or saying they are neglectful. If they are doing all they can for their children then I cannot say they are neglectful. But if a person can have ten dogs, a new video game system, new computers, and other expensive things but still not care for their kids it is a different matter entirely.
I do not claim to be mother of the year. I am far from it. I get annoyed, even angry, at my daughter. There are nights when I would give my right hand if she would just be quiet and allow me to sleep. But never in a million years would I think of hurting her.
And as for mental problems, they run strong in my family. My father I have told you about. I am also a victim of severe depression. My husband has severe anger issues. But neither my husband nor myself would ever dream of harming our daughter. We find ways to channel our problems and we aren't even on meds or take any sort of therepy.
When to have children, as I also know, is a choice that many people make without even wanting to. My daughter was unplanned. I wasn't married, had just gotten a job flippin burgers, was living with my grandparents, and didnt even know if I would be able to have children and live through it because of a heart problem. I was due to be married on my birthday and was going to live in a camper in my grandparent's back yard. A week before my birthday, though, I learned I was pregnant.
I was kicked out of the house, had to quit my job because it was a high-risk pregnancy, and had to go from friend to friend to find a place to live. My husband and I got married and I we eventually moved into the camper and then back into my grandparents house seeing as we had no running water. It was just by the grace of God that I survived the pregnancy without any problems from my heart.
My point is, even if things aren't the best for the parents and the timing is off, there are ways to get around the difficulties and take care of your children.

[SpookyOkyBatGirl]

It's hard to let kids be kids because kids are very expensive. The toys are more expensive, and if kids don't have a certain toy, they're not liked by other children.

Plus, I believe sometimes people just have kids too early. My brother had his first child at 15, and I ended up raising her until she was two when he finally became mature enough to even want to acknowledge her. Our parents, on the other hand, had us at almost thirty, when they were done partying, traveled where they wanted to go, got sick of beer, and had a steady position in their careers. They openly said that we weren't planned, but they weren't stressed because they felt like they could properly care for a baby with their given situation.

[Roseblossom90]

When my husband was a child his parents looked in trash heaps on the side of the road and dumpsters for his toys. My sister and I played with sticks, grass, hand-me-down toys, or made dolls out of paper. All of us did fine as far as friends. That is, those of us who wanted friends.

[frankokomando]

I saw this video on yahoo one time where this guy put his 3yr. old son into a washing machine and turned it on. Luckily, one of the employees at the Laundromat turned off the machine before anything really bad could happen. When I watched I was like"REALLY?! who really thinks it's okay to shove your toddler into a washing machine and turn it on for fun?!"

People are morons.

[Roseblossom90]

Like the woman in Colorado who took her toddler out of its carseat so that she could strap in a gas can...I mean, she could have at least put a seatbelt on the child or something but she didn't.

[Saturnfly]

Im just saying that back in the 90s and 80s there was more time for kids to behave like kids and think like kids, nowadays these companies DELIBERATLEY try to get to kids to buy their stuff. Back then, 7 year olds didn't have iPhones and iPads. I had a little VTech plaything that was shaped like a computer and took freakin' CASSETTE TAPES. I had X-men action figures! (Remember, I was born in late '92)

Now if kids don't act a certain way or do certain things, they get left out in the dust. :cry:

Well sure, who wants to carry around a cell phone in the 80's - 90's that weighs like 10 pounds? xD

Technology wasn't so advanced then, at least not easily portable technology, so children relied more on conventional 'old fashioned' entertainment like books and board games, etc...
It's a shame really, but as technology evolves, so does every day life I s'pose.

[whiterider]

I don't think it's to do with technology per se. There's nothing wrong with a kid having a phone, any more than there was something wrong with a kid having a scooter or lots of Barbies when I was growing up (in fact, a phone is probably even more advisable, from the perspective of your kid always being able to contact you if they need to). In the same way, there's nothing wrong with a kid eating junk food, or being bought nice clothes, whatever else.

It's far more a question of the attitudes that accompany these kinds of things. If as a child I'd been bought every book I wanted, when I wanted it, I'd have grown into a spoilt brat as surely as if I'd been bought every Apple device ever made (not that that were many Apple devices when I was a kid...). Probably would have cost more too. At the end of the day, the most important thing is the attitudes and expectations that children learn from their parents. A sensible, mature understanding of the world allows a (young) person to function pretty well in almost any everyday situation, whatever the time period or other externalities.

[JDacapo]

Having read this, it seems to me that I'm lucky. My parents provided me with food, water, shelter, fun, education, and safety. They didn't always understand the way I 'ticked', but at least I had a pair of functional parents. I've grown up badly quite a few times, due to bad stuff happening, but it's mainly because they didn't know about aspergers syndrome, or any of these other neurological conditions. My parents may have been 'ignorant' and sometimes I do wish I had different, more understanding parents, but the ones I have did the best they could, and It's hard, but I've realized that they were just trying to do what was best.

[SommarBlomma]

Some people want to be parents, but it seems that they imagine it like playing with dolls. They forget that kids are sensitive, but sometimes can't say what they really feel and what they want; that kids can get ill, and need a lot of care and understanding on the parens' side; that all kids are different, and are not supposed to be as perfet, as kids from advertisements, nor become what their parents want them to be; that they have a mind of their own, and need to be respected, even in cases when they're actually told that they're wrong, and need to change their behaviours; that they copy their parents' behaviour, and if a kid is doing something wrong, it's most likely that one or both parents do this, too. To me, bad parents are not only those who neglect their child's needs, upbringing, and education, but also those who refuse to RESPECT their childrens' PERSONALITIES (yes, children have personalities, feelings and DIGNITY even in their early childhood!)

[Mistermook]

nowadays these companies DELIBERATLEY try to get to kids to buy their stuff.
Kids these days have NOTHING on the child marketing campaigns of the 70s and 80s, when children could reliably be expected to be sitting in one place and one place only at certain times of the day because there weren't any competing forms of entertainment. That's the only difference really. And that goes all the way back to television and the push to keep kids in public education for as long as possible following WWII. So it's as old as the Baby Boom, but that's just the set up for the other thing:

The truth of the matter is that the modern definition of a child is modern. It's something we've invented fairly recently, to go with our newly invented economies and compensate for the additional decade or so of schooling required to produce someone who can program video games and run nuclear power plants. When children's labor was best utilized milking cows and cleaning chimneys that's what we had them do. These days it's best that we push kids to stay in school, because that's where they need to be to provide for society. We have milking machines and electric heating and cooling.

That doesn't mean that modern people are "softer" or it's "better" these days, but it does mean it's different. The past is a foreign country with an alien culture. Don't idolize it or inflate it, or the present either really.

[paksetti]

Im just saying that back in the 90s and 80s there was more time for kids to behave like kids and think like kids, nowadays these companies DELIBERATLEY try to get to kids to buy their stuff.

Ah, the eighties- golden age of 30 minute toy commercials like G.I. Joe, My Little Pony, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and X-men.
Any company would go under if they didn't want people to by their product, by the way.


I really don't understand this whole "things were much better in my day rabblerabblerabble" attitude. Man, the grass was greener and the sun was brighter and we all pooped gold coins 20 years ago, but now, kids are fucking stupid, parents are fucking stupid, food sucks, toys suck, tv sucks, music sucks, everything sucks, fuck everything because it was better in my memory.


I dunno, people say that everyone eventually gets like that, but fuck I hope not. I get nostalgic, sure, but I never want to make a gigantic ass out of my self by misremembering everything that happed before as better than everything that's currently happening. I don't know why people can't see past their rose-tinted glasses.

Kids use computers and ipods now because everyone uses them. Even if you don't have an ipod, cellphone or other portable media device, you obviously own some sort of device that allows you to get on the internet. I do think that children should have limited internet, video game and cellphone time just as they should have limited TV time, hell, so should everyone, but I don't see anything wrong with a kid having a new toy. If they're old enough and responsible enough, why the fuck not?

The world is constantly changing, and we can either piss and moan, or accept it.


That wasn't directed solely at you, fraroc, it was not my intention to attack you. :turtle:

[BlakeS5678]

There are so many ways you can be a bad parent ignorance is practically a small factor.

For example:

Too nice = Brat

Too Mean = Low Self Esteem

Too Strict = Defiant

Too Relaxed = A child that does whatever they want

You see, these are all *technically* forms of ignorance, but, usually we just think of ignorance as someone who goes out and parties or something.

It also bring up the theory of what to do with bad parents. What could / should we do? Take 'em away! Not so much. A lot of the time foster homes and orphanage facilities can be MUCH worse. Especially, (As stated before) when the people who are checking on the joint aren't doing their jobs properly.

I'm really at a lost as to what to do. It's pretty general as to what happens:

(This is a general flow chart, not necessarily what ALWAYS occurs)

Bad Parent = Bad Kid = Bad Adult = Bad Parent (Because Bad Adults are excessively prone to having children)

[JDacapo]

Not to mention that for the kids who falsely accuse their parents of abuse, expecting to get better parents, are in for a rude awakening. Foster homes ain't Hawaii, though for the sake of the kids who actually were abused, I wish there was some sort of Hawaii-like place for them.

[Zexxa]

Unfortunately, bad parents start as bad children. It's a neverending cycle. I've seen some people who had children in their teens turn out to be great parents, and those who waited until they were 'ready' turn out to be terrible parents. You never really know how good of a parent you are going to be until you become a parent.

I do wish that everyone would practice safe sex and birth control. I don't know how many people I've seen have unplanned, unloved children, while I watch friends of mine(namely one of my best friends) cry because she couldn't get pregnant. Thankfully, she has now had her first, and probably only child, and it's a very delicate balance to ensure that she grows up to be a well-adjusted adult.

I know that her parents could and want to shower her with gifts because she is their miracle baby, but they refrain, because they don't want their baby spoiled.

On that, I didn't have a cell phone until I was driving. Granted, some kids need them because they have social lives before they start driving, but I fully know of several youngsters with cell phones who literally sit on their beds and chat with their friends. I know that land-lines have gone out of fashion, so giving a child a phone may be the next logical course. When I was their age, I was talking on a land-line.

On the note of irresponsibility, I have seen times when a parent puts a post it note on their dash to remember to check for the baby. There is nothing wrong with that. I have seen people talk badly about those people with those notes, but if it helps them be safe, I say go ahead. Sometimes I would forget where my head was if it wasn't attached, we can't expect parents to suddenly become superman because they had offspring. If parents, and people looking at parents, would just remember that we are all human and all make mistakes, then perhaps parents wouldn't feel ashamed to ask for help.

[SuicidiaParasidia]

I'm sorry but I have to say something here. What is it with all of these parents being complete idiots when it comes to their children? I have only been a mother for three months but even I know not to stick my child on the roof of my car and drive off, or take her out of her carseat so I can strap in a gas can. And just last week a man was hiding out close to where I live because he beat two little children to death in their carseats.
Children are precious gifts from God (or any other greater being, whatever religion you may be). They shouldn't be treated the way they are being treated. There are so many people out there who long to have a child of their own and are not able to that would make a little child's life the things dreams are made of. It just doesn't seem right that people who doesn't want their children and treat their children badly can pop out as many as they want when so many people suffer because of their inability to recieve the blessing of a child.
I am sorry if I stepped on any toes with this but I had to say something or I was going to go insane.

i think youre confusing not knowing any better (ignorance) with simple stupidity.

third bold part: those people have an option...it's called adoption. if children in general are supposedly so special, it shouldnt matter if theyre their own crotch fruit or someone elses', if they genuinely cant produce their own.

also, you do realize there's a vent tread...right?

[alisha99]

Its sad really but im 12 and i HAD a abusive stepdad and he wasn't abusive to us phisically but he was mentally and he used to be phisically abuisve to my Mum and it only just stopped about a year ago, but since then i've moved to my Dads house( only about 2 months ago) And things are finally starting to get better:!: FINALLY but yeah i see what ur sayin and know how it feels:!:

Congratulations on the newborn:!: :bunny:

[Rawra]

im 12

Then what are you doing on this site?

[whiterider]

You'll notice that she's no longer doing anything on the site.

[fraroc]

Not to mention that for the kids who falsely accuse their parents of abuse, expecting to get better parents, are in for a rude awakening. Foster homes ain't Hawaii, though for the sake of the kids who actually were abused, I wish there was some sort of Hawaii-like place for them.

The Child Protective Service is as corrupt as fuck, they don't do backup checks on foster parents at all, a kid could be sent to some concentration camp-esque household and they won't give a shit, they could go to a home of a serial child molester and they wouldn't bat an eye.

[BlakeS5678]

The Child Protective Service is as corrupt as fuck, they don't do backup checks on foster parents at all, a kid could be sent to some concentration camp-esque household and they won't give a shit, they could go to a home of a serial child molester and they wouldn't bat an eye.

I'm genuinely scared for the people who disagreed with this.

Is it you DON'T THINK THIS IS HAPPENING!??! HUH!?

My mother was molested by her uncle as a child for two years and TO THIS DAY Child Protective Services never knew about it.

[paksetti]

Just a question, and I hope this doesn't offend as it's not meant as a personal attack, but you just seem so angry and extreme in all of your posts here, fraroc. (Granted, I don't leave general discussion anymore, so I don't know of anything outside of this area, really). I used to think you were just young, and that would certainly explain why you were so mad at everything, but now I know that you're the same age as I am, and while I'm nowhere near perfect, I'm just sort of wondering why everything makes you so angry all the time.

[BlakeS5678]

Just a question, and I hope this doesn't offend as it's not meant as a personal attack, but you just seem so angry and extreme in all of your posts here, fraroc. (Granted, I don't leave general discussion anymore, so I don't know of anything outside of this area, really). I used to think you were just young, and that would certainly explain why you were so mad at everything, but now I know that you're the same age as I am, and while I'm nowhere near perfect, I'm just sort of wondering why everything makes you so angry all the time.

What do you think he's angry about specifically? Because I'm 110% with him on the CPS corruption thing.

[iCad]

The Child Protective Service is as corrupt as fuck, they don't do backup checks on foster parents at all, a kid could be sent to some concentration camp-esque household and they won't give a shit, they could go to a home of a serial child molester and they wouldn't bat an eye.

Well, um...no. My closest friends are foster parents and they went through all sorts of background-checking before they were accepted as such. Not only that, they had to attend mandatory parenting classes AND counseling sessions AND some of their family members were interviewed as well, to make certain that they had a "support system." Things like that. They basically went through the same process that one goes through when adopting, only the state paid for all of it. Perhaps they do that because foster parents do often end up actually adopting children that they foster. (My friends acquired their two daughters that way, and they're thinking of permanently taking in a boy they're fostering now to round out their family while continuing to foster other children. They're gay, so they can't have kids the old-fashioned way, you see.)

So...Not seeing "corruption," no. They really won't give a kid to someone just walking in off the street saying, "Gimme!" Granted, I suppose there may be differences from state to state (and certainly from country to country) and even from county to county within a state, perhaps, but I tend to think that any major "corruption" that occurred would be nipped in the bud pretty darn quickly. If corruption were so rampant, you'd be seeing a lot of high-profile court cases, at the very least.

ETA:

I'm genuinely scared for the people who disagreed with this.

Is it you DON'T THINK THIS IS HAPPENING!??! HUH!?

My mother was molested by her uncle as a child for two years and TO THIS DAY Child Protective Services never knew about it.

That's horrible about your mother, but the fact of the matter is that CPS is hardly omniscient. It's not as if they have a hidden spy camera in every house with children. In order for anything to happen with CPS, things have to be reported to them. If there's no report, OBVIOUSLY they won't do anything about a situation. When there is a report, they will do something. What they can do is, unfortunately, sometimes restricted by law, depending on the situation. So, every case is different. In general, with the ways the laws are set up, it's often very difficult for them to remove a child from a home or from custody of one parent or the other. (I know this because there were once some issues with my son and my ex-husband and I had to get CPS involved. Things didn't move NEARLY as quickly as I hoped, because of the way the agency is restricted by law.) However, you can't blame CPS for this. Good people who sincerely want to help -- but who are often overworked -- work for them, but sometimes their hands are bound. So, if you must blame, blame the law by which CPS is bound.

[BlakeS5678]

However, you can't blame CPS for this. Good people who sincerely want to help -- but who are often overworked -- work for them, but sometimes their hands are bound. So, if you must blame, blame the law by which CPS is bound.

I have a sincere, completely non-snarky question. Which law exactly are they "bound" by? I'd love to know more.

[fraroc]

Just a question, and I hope this doesn't offend as it's not meant as a personal attack, but you just seem so angry and extreme in all of your posts here, fraroc. (Granted, I don't leave general discussion anymore, so I don't know of anything outside of this area, really). I used to think you were just young, and that would certainly explain why you were so mad at everything, but now I know that you're the same age as I am, and while I'm nowhere near perfect, I'm just sort of wondering why everything makes you so angry all the time.

I wouldn't say I'm angry all the time, because I'm not. But I am a very emotional and opinionated person. I not only defend my opinions but I also try to educate people. I've witnessed firsthand how unbelievalbly stupid and ignorant society the human race can be.

[iCad]

I have a sincere, completely non-snarky question. Which law exactly are they "bound" by? I'd love to know more.

State laws, in general, if you're in the US. As such, they will vary from state to state. I can point you to the relevant Tennessee statutes, applicable to my situation at the time when I dealt with CPS because I was living in Tennessee then, but they wouldn't be helpful/instructive unless you're in Tennessee as well. In general, they have things to do with such things as...oh, privacy. And in general, the law protects the parents rather than empowers the government agency. (Remember CPS is NOT law enforcement; they can't barge into houses and arrest people. In general, if a child is being abused in any way, it's best for a concerned person to go to law enforcement. CPS is actually a secondary service. But even law enforcement has its boundaries.)

Everyone yells about how they can't believe CPS didn't "do more," but the truth is that, in most cases, they do what they can but, at the end of the day, the law favors the parents, and it takes a herculean effort, usually in concert with law enforcement, to remove a child from his/her parent(s). And they won't go on just say-so. It's a long and complicated process of visits and hearings and sessions with caseworkers and all sorts of things. Not fun. Very bureaucratic. I wish it were easier to remove kids from bad situation...but then, if that were the case, many kids would probably end up unjustly removed, perhaps just on the say-so of an embittered ex-spouse. It's one of those delicate balance sort of situations.

ETA:

Did a bit of poking, just because I have some time to kill until my daughter's done with work and I can go home. :lol: Found this (http://www.tn.gov/youth/dcsguide/clientsrights.pdf). It's for Tennessee folks, and it doesn't particularly spell out the actual laws involved (although it does reference them, so you can look them up if you're into reading legal gobbledygook), but it does give a good overview of the procedure (which is all dictated by law) that happens when child abuse is reported to CPS, either by law enforcement or a family member or an unrelated party. But as I said, different states (and even, in some cases, counties) have different laws/procedures. But I think Tennessee's is pretty typical. And, like I said, very not fun and very bureaucratic. It's definitely not, "Child abuse is reported and child is immediately removed from home." Not by a long shot. But if you're interested, there you go. :)

[Drakesecaravdis]

it's definitely not ideal. but I kinda agree with ICad. you can't judge what they are doing. the best way to know when a parent is bad is to have one.
just because a kid is being put in these dangerous situations, doesn't mean that the parent is necessarily bad. it's like how people would say Britney Spears is a bad mom...no she was going through mental issues people.
what's important is that they are trying which is a lot more than you can ever say for my sperm donor.

It just pains me that children are the ones who pay for their parents' shortcomings.
true but it's a lot more painful to have a parent who doesn't care/has displayed not to care than ones who harm them by accident and maybe I'm wrong but I think the kids are generally smart enough to know why they're behaving in that way.

I was 17 when I had my first boyfriend. It wasn't until I had my second boyfriend (now my husband) at 18 that I began dressing the way that I see eleven-year-olds dressing now. Heck, I was 15 before I even knew what sex was. Now I am not saying that I believe parents should hold off that long to have 'the talk' with their kids, far from it. But I had the long innocent childhood that I hope my daughter to be able to have. I don't want her coming up to me at the age of thirteen or fourteen and telling me that she's pregnant or crying over a 'broken heart'.
And iCad, I see your point with children getting on their parents nerves. I honestly do. But I just believe that they should be able to find another way than beating their kid. I mean, my father has been deemed unable to work because of anger and mental problems. And yes, he has raised his hand towards me before, but when I was a kid my parents knew they couldn't take care of me the way I needed they let me live with my grandmother. Even now when I have taken all I can of my daughter's screaming I rurn to my grandmother of her father. And I know that not all people have the support that I do but still I am sure they could call somebody if not even a nurse or something for support.
are you kidding me? I didn't have one til I was biologically 18 and I was even older than that when I understood what sex was.
but then again I often feel like the rest of the world is changing around me and I'm still the same.
however my childhood was not so innocent..I think it was until I was 14 because even though it was still bad, I was oblivious.
I guess my point is even without what you are referring to, childhood may still not be innocent. there are so many things that can force you out of that.


I think we should give kids more time to be kids, It really is sad that because of this sick society, they have to act so grown up now.
the issue is that the kids themselves are often in a hurry to grow up and I really don't understand it. I mean why the hell would you want to be an adult? it f'in sucks
or are kids different nowadays?




It also bring up the theory of what to do with bad parents. What could / should we do? Take 'em away! Not so much. A lot of the time foster homes and orphanage facilities can be MUCH worse. Especially, (As stated before) when the people who are checking on the joint aren't doing their jobs properly.

I'm really at a lost as to what to do. It's pretty general as to what happens:
yeah there's not really anything you can do and the worst part is it doesn't necessarily end when the child grows up. it's not like a breakup. when a parent has hurt you and doesn't make up for it, it can carry through to your whole life

[Yazoo]

Unfortunately, bad parents start as bad children. It's a neverending cycle. I've seen some people who had children in their teens turn out to be great parents, and those who waited until they were 'ready' turn out to be terrible parents. You never really know how good of a parent you are going to be until you become a parent.

That is not necessarily true. People can change. That is like telling a child to be racist, hate this race over another. And I have seen kids look at that so called race, and realize that their parents were wrong. Or being bullied in high school. That doesn't mean the parent is going to turn out to be a bully. If every child who was brought up in a bad home, and they turned out to be bad parents. Then damn, there would be a lot of broken homes. I am going to give a personal example.

My mother was beat by her father, not only physically but mentally as well. Did my mother hit me or my brother? No. Did she ever put us down? No. In fact she was the opposite. She didn't want to hurt us, even if we did something stupid. She didn't call us names, because she knew that would just hurt us in the end.

Growing up in a bad home, doesn't make that person a bad parent. They make themselves a bad parent, thinking they need to do the extreme. Example, for beating a child, or calling them names. I will admit sometimes bad parents are bad because they were raised in a bad home, but NOT all turn out that way. And that is the truth.

Another example, I had a guy friend that was neglected as a child. Did he neglect his kids? No. In fact he is an amazing father. I have seen how his kids turned out, (BY THE WAY, he is older than me. In his 40's older).

So, like I said, bad homes do NOT always make bad parents. In fact, bad homes could make AMAZING parents. Because they do not want to make their child suffer like they did.