Transparency Help

[omegastarr82]

I'm working on a pair of "cut-off" jeans. I can't get the legs to appear. I'm using TSRW. cloned form the mummy mesh. Two groups, one is the legs and shorts, one the cuff/fringe part. I've included the file and textures below. The mesh is pretty much done except some very minor details on my part. So are the textures except updating the spec to include the fringe.

http://thumbs.modthesims.info/getimage.php?file=1300151

[BloomsBase]

update the transparancy map. :)
only the fringe meshpart should be white on it, not the whole map.

[omegastarr82]

That's what I thought too. It doesn't work. I based my transparency map form the hula skirts'.

http://thumbs.modthesims.info/getimage.php?file=1300152

[BloomsBase]

strange....seems they use the same shader then.
Ill have another look at your file.
I did similar stuff here: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=411123&highlight=alphaskirt
I used the stores hulaskirt for it and the skinpart and skirt use diffrent shaders.
Could be that tsrw assigned both meshgroups to the same shader.

Edit,
Try deleting the first parameter of the shorts/legs meshgroup in its materials tab

[CmarNYC]

It's the shader all right. I had to replace the entire shader in the jeans/legs mesh with the SimSkin MTNF from another mesh to fix it. I also fixed the muscle definition seam mismatch that cropped up with the skin visible. For lod 2 and lod 3 you can replace the shader/MTNF with Delphy's SimGeomEditor tool. You could also try copying the comments from another mesh in Milkshape.

[omegastarr82]

Sweet!!!! Thank you both so much!! Fixing the muscle definition was on my to do list. I used your mesh tool kit so much throughout making these, everything on it worked great so far.

Worked like a charm, thank you both again. Took but a second, LET THERE BE LEGS!

http://thumbs.modthesims.info/getimage.php?file=1300165

[BloomsBase]

sweet, would like to know if simply deleting the parameter would have done tthe same.
Ill might try that myself :)

[CmarNYC]

Bloom, I'm curious too. It was some parameter in the shader either instead of or in addition to the shader itself and I'd love to know what it was. :)

What Materials tab are you talking about? In TSRW? I'm not seeing it.

Glad you're using the tools, Omega. A shader editor is one of the things on my list to add to it - but if I keep fiddling it'll never be ready for upload! :D This was also a nice test of my tangent recalculator - I was amazed that it actually works to correct the muscle seam thing.

[omegastarr82]

The mesh tab where it lists the individual mesh groups, there's an option in the mesh group tab thing. Right under where it tells you the faces and vericies. (I believe)

The frankenmeshing tool has sped things up for me greatly and I've always used the morph mesh updater. Soon making clothing will be a snap because of you.

[BloomsBase]

wat the....you made a tangent recalculator? :)
I stopped doing CAS stuff cos of the muscle bug

[CmarNYC]

Thanks, Omega, found it. I'm just not very familiar with TSRW. :) Have to admit it has a lot of nice features.

Bloom, I found code online for calculating tangents that I stole, er, adapted. :) I've only tested very briefly but it seems to work to suppress that ugly line at the seam. Needs more testing and close examination of the results. I'm attaching the latest Mesh Toolkit - look in the Miscellaneous tools tab and there's an option to match tangents at the seam only and an option to recalculate the whole mesh. I suggest trying both and see if one is better. If you try any of this stuff I'd appreciate it if you report any errors or problems - some of it is still experimental and a few things are untested. Oh, and the 'Bone Scan' function is WAY too sensitive and will tell you EA geoms have underweighted bones. :D

[BloomsBase]

Thnx!! :)

[BloomsBase]

Cmar, would you be willing to have a look at this file?
Im trying to fix the tangents with your tool but i can not see any changes.
Its a bottom file cloned with TSRW and edited to have 2 meshgroups for each lod.
I did change the shader for the 2nd meshgroup but it is the 1st group of each lod i want to fix.
The mesh itself is based on a sims 2 one.

I once fixed the waist but lost the file and i can not remember how i did it..... :faceslap:

[CmarNYC]

Happy to, Bloom!

What's the problem you're having trouble with? There's no skin showing so I don't see where the tangents issue is coming up - when I change the muscle definition slider there's no change at all since the scales/fish skin covers the sim's skin. Do you mean the sort of seam and what looks like translucency near the ankles?

[BloomsBase]

uh?
You went in CAS with it?

Still testing here, i ran the mesh trhough the smd exporter/importer wich also changed the tangents.
But im losing other stuff when doing so.

Edit,

Are you viewing in CTU?
CTU can not display the transparancymap wich i used first to delete the fins.
I ment the seam on the waist:

[CmarNYC]

Yes, I looked at it in CAS. Is it different in the game? Still not seeing the tangent problem.

[BloomsBase]

i just checked in CAS with a new file.....see screenshot.
Here is that same file
Strange that you have it showing black....oh, not black....i only need to fix the waist.

[CmarNYC]

Oooooh! I had a top on the sim that hid the waist. Will see what I can see!

Edit: Yeah, the problem is matching tangents at a seam between two different meshes, not at a seam inside the mesh. EA may have calculated tangents in some non-standard way or done a whole-body calculation or who knows what. I'll have to take another look at those cutoffs to see what the waistline for that looks like. This should be fixable by copying tangents from the nude bottom, except you probably renumbered. Hmm, I'll have to see about adding a feature to my tool to match a seam with another mesh. I'll get back to you!

[BloomsBase]

I was fiddling with it also and think i found a solution.(sorry!!!)
When you run unimesh sims 2 assigne smoothing groups V4.09 on the mesh it fixes the waist! :)

So it tried with TSRW but then the smoothing groups(or tangents?) get killed....prolly due the vertex optimization
Same results if i ignore all popups, it kills them.
But when converting to package/export base GEOM/run make smoothing groups in MS on the base GEOM, it fixed it.
Really cant tell wether its tangents or that these meshes need diffrent smoothing groups, i dont know enough about it.
Wat i forgot to test are the morphs......

edit,
well, not good on this one, look at her bottom fins lol.
Gues i have to switched back to your tools Cmar :)
I tried a few of the tops from ss2 and it seems to fix the waist but the sides and innerleg are still the same.

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/7859/screenshot209o.jpg

[CmarNYC]

Very strange... I mean, I can guess in general what's happening... the tangents are calculated for each vertex using the locations and normals and UV coordinates for the vertex and all vertices it's in a face with. At a seam between two meshes the vertices in the other mesh aren't available for the calculation although they aren't in the same faces anyway so who knows. I can understand if EA uses a non-standard calculation but it's hard to understand why Milkshape seems to mess up with seams inside one mesh. And why it ONLY affects the muscle slider. And why smoothing groups would fix it! Although - smoothing changes the normals and that would change the calculated tangents. Too bad it seems to mess up other stuff.

TSRW is just not going to be very useful for this. The .wso meshes do not contain ANY tangent data and TSRW must recalculate the tangents on import. No way to change that, so you'll have to do your work in TSRW, export into package, fix your meshes, and replace them in the package.

Anyway. I think in the short term I may just hard-code the EA waistline tangents so both CC tops and CC bottoms can be easily fixed. Will also work on a tool to take an EA mesh and a CC mesh and copy from the EA mesh to the CC at the seam. Have to look for problems at the neck and ankle too.

[daluved1]

*gives Cmar a cookie*

[CmarNYC]

LOL, save the cookie, Dal! I found I never linked up the tangent recalculator function correctly so using it did the same thing as the single-mesh seam matcher. *blush in shame* And it turns out I have to separate out the tangent calculation to a separate program because it uses DirectX and forces a 32-bit only compile which probably won't run except on Windows, which I don't want for the main toolkit. And of course now there are bugs showing up. So this is taking a while but I'm eager to see what the complete recalculation will do.

[BloomsBase]

i have it working!! :)
First i ran the make smoothing groups on the mesh and after that i ran your tool on the seams.
It fixed the seams on the right side of the topmesh and her arms.

[CmarNYC]

Cool! I think the issue may be Milkshape's calculation of tangents not handling normals in the standard way. Or something.

http://thumbs2.modthesims2.com/img/3/2/1/6/5/9/6/MTS_CmarNYC-1300853-MermaidRecalc.jpg

And I've gotten the tangent recalculator done and it actually works! I ran your mermaid mesh through it and it fixed the waistline problem, also Omega's cutoffs mesh and it fixed the inside legs problem. (The male waistline seems to be okay regardless.) I've attached it for anyone who wants to use it, and will upload it along with the final version of the Toolkit. It requires .NET3.5 and DirectX and as I said will likely only run on Windows.

[BloomsBase]

That is awsome!!
As you may have read the smoothing groups tool breaks boneassignements so im so gonna use this.
One of the reasons i quit doing cas stuff, more reason to start again :)
Thank you Cmar, your a gem!!
Already started fixing my ss2 stuff :anime:

[CmarNYC]

LOL, I'll have that cookie now, assuming more problems don't show up - please tell me if they do. :) BTW, Bloom, that mermaid mesh and texture are absolutely gorgeous.

[BloomsBase]

Most of it done by Marvine though, one of the best sims 2 creators arround.
She gave me permission to do watever i like with her stuff :P
Was planning to do the whole family but couldn't find a good setup untill i found 2 shaders that work with tsrw(simskin and the EP6 necklace shader)
Keep up the good work :)

[BloomsBase]

Do you guys have Showtime?
I made a new setup for tsrw were you no longer need to:
-Enable transparancy
-Use the transparancymap
-Change shader afterwards
All is done with the multiplier.
I made this file for a girl that followed Cmar's transparancy tutorial but couldn't match the colors of the outfit.
Simskin and simhairsimple display the multiplier(and so its colors and patterns) diffrent.

So i used the shader of a Showtime neckless but was wondering if it is basegamecompatible?

[CmarNYC]

I have Showtime. I know someone who doesn't but isn't patched to any recent level. You probably need someone who's patched to the Showtime level (1.33 I guess?) but doesn't have Showtime.

[BloomsBase]

i have no idea, i did alot of objects last year and for some they need to be patched for others they dont....

[CmarNYC]

I thought you want someone without Showtime installed to test your TSRW setup?

Actually, I take it back. I have another computer with basegame only, but it hasn't been patched in forever.

[omegastarr82]

Ok, I am going to try this again. I can't seem to get the leg seam to go away. That's what that is yes? Or am I looking at something different? It's there with and without an default skins.

[CmarNYC]

Yes, that's the leg seam. Did you try my tangent recalculator on the mesh? Or my toolkit tangents seam fixer?

[omegastarr82]

Nevermind, I tried it again and it worked. It's weird to see too because I went back to check my other CAS stuff and some of them have it, some don't.