The end is nigh...

[fraavio]

Simprograms posted a picture (http://www.simprograms.com/42108/5-more-add-ons-after-diesel-stuff/) that shows that after the Diesel SP there are gonna be 5 more EPs and/or SPs. I assume it's gonna be 3 EPs and 2 SPs, considering that after SP, an EP comes out.

Thoughts?

[kiwi_tea]

My thoughts are they are placeholders and we have no way of knowing whether they are just what's in dev at the moment (which I assume is what it is), or if they are a signal of the last TS3 content. I see absolutely no reason to make the kind of assumptions that people are making about this image.

[matrix54]

It could be a bug...

[kennyinbmore]

I doubt simprograms has someone in the EA offices giving them that type of information, so I'd take it with a grain of salt

[DeathByBeingStoned]

I don't think this is a signal of the end, it's of my opinion that TS3 will be ending next year and that there will probably be two EPs & SPs in addition to the confirmed and rumored EPs/SPs in that time.

[olomaya]

I don't really find that all that surprising. There are already 6 EPs out with 2 more on the way this year alone. It's not like they are going to keep producing add-ons for this game ad infinitum.

[Anniversary]

I doubt simprograms has someone in the EA offices giving them that type of information, so I'd take it with a grain of salt


...Did you even click the link? It's an updated Launcher UI that every single player installing the patch should be able to see. It has nothing to do with insider information being leaked by somebody official.

[cameranutz2]

...There are already 6 EPs out with 2 more on the way this year alone...

Did I miss an "official" announcement or is this still conjecture?

Either way, the end of S3 will come in time so I don't look at a pic of the launcher icons as a signal it will be dead by next year.

Of course if it does, that's fine, cuz I have no intention of giving EA any money for another Sims game that is so screwed half the time that I have to rely on mods to run it without bugs and annoyances.

[fraavio]

Did I miss an "official" announcement or is this still conjecture?

Either way, the end of S3 will come in time so I don't look at a pic of the launcher icons as a signal it will be dead by next year.

Of course if it does, that's fine, cuz I have no intention of giving EA any money for another Sims game that is so screwed half the time that I have to rely on mods to run it without bugs and annoyances.

I'm not saying it's gonna end by next year, I simply posted what I saw. I think we still have a couple, a couple and a half years of TS3. I'm certain it's gonna be a two and a half years of disappointment AND awesome.

[Spiritbw]

I have to agree with kiwi_tea on this one. Without more info for allw e know it's just place holders for what is in development right now. Till they say that it's the last EP or SP I am not going to assume anything.

To be honest, the only reason I can see them going to the next Iteration of the sims(aka Sims 4) is if they think they ahve refind the technology or the gameplay enough to need one. I don't think they are quite there yet but then I've no idea what goes on under the hood so to speak.

[Artimis]

:faceslap: Oh my god, I feel sorry for those people who buy everything for sims 3. This is going to be expensive $$$$£££££$$$$. For stuff I got for sims 3 it cost me £91 or more. This action may kill the seris and that's why ea will do it for the money.

[DaBoogadie]

:faceslap: Oh my god, I feel sorry for those people who buy everything for sims 3. This is going to be expensive $$$$£££££$$$$. For stuff I got for sims 3 it cost me £91 or more. This action may kill the seris and that's why ea will do it for the money.
No need to be sorry for us. We know what we're doing.

If you don't have the whole game...You can't play the whole game!

[Duxfever]

IT really could be either just a bug, but if they were really indeed actual, meaningful placeholders.. I'd suggest that the second placeholder is Supernatural (first one being the Diesel SP), then we'd be getting two more stuff packs following that, like we just did recently with the Katy Perry Sweet Treats and Diesel packs. That would fill three out of the six placeholders. After the second stuff pack, would be the next/final EP, with stuff packs to follow.

Obviously I'm thinking about a more-than-likely-to-be-bug (or photoshop) too much, but it's always nice to share thoughts.

[crocobaura]

To be honest, the only reason I can see them going to the next Iteration of the sims(aka Sims 4) is if they think they ahve refind the technology or the gameplay enough to need one. I don't think they are quite there yet but then I've no idea what goes on under the hood so to speak.

They will make Sims4 simply because there are lots of people still willing to buy the game. Refined technology and gameplay doesn't actually mean better, they can make a few changes here and there and call it a new game.

[Anniversary]

I have to agree with kiwi_tea on this one. Without more info for allw e know it's just place holders for what is in development right now. Till they say that it's the last EP or SP I am not going to assume anything.

To be honest, the only reason I can see them going to the next Iteration of the sims(aka Sims 4) is if they think they ahve refind the technology or the gameplay enough to need one. I don't think they are quite there yet but then I've no idea what goes on under the hood so to speak.

Kiwi_Tea? more like Skeptical_About_Absolutely_Everything. We're not allowed to speculate anymore, apparently. :cry:

Also, reports are coming in that if you hover over these icons, the names of the expansions/stuff packs they represent pop up.

BUT IM SURE IT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE.

[katya_stevens]

Alan Bradley: Excuse me
Richard Mackey: Yes... Alan
Alan Bradley: Given the prices we charge to students and schools, what sort of improvements have been made in Flynn... I mean, um, ENCOM OS-12?
Richard Mackey: This year we put a "12" on the box.

-----

The placeholder of five new EPs/SPs doesn't surprise me as I've been suspecting that TS3'll end next year. If those are the final releases (and not just placeholders for what's in development now with possibly more to come) before TS4, that gives us Supernatural and Seasons and a total of 3 EPs/SPs for 2013, finshing up in the early half of the year and allowing for a possibly Q1 release for TS4 in 2014. It was only about a year between the last EP of TS1 and TS2's release, and about 8 months between M&G for TS2 and TS3's release (which would have been a mere 4 months has TS3 been released in Februrary as originally scheduled).

[Sunshine021]

:faceslap: Oh my god, I feel sorry for those people who buy everything for sims 3. This is going to be expensive $$$$£££££$$$$. For stuff I got for sims 3 it cost me £91 or more. This action may kill the seris and that's why ea will do it for the money.

ENOUGH ALREADY. We already know you don't like The Sims 3. Jesus. Load The Sims 2 and move on.

[Artimis]

ENOUGH ALREADY. We already know you don't like The Sims 3. Jesus. Load The Sims 2 and move on.

Look, I AM LIKING SIMS 3 MORE THAN I USED TO!! I cannot play sims 2 as it is not working and at the moment sims 3 is the only which is working. I am only saying this as I knew how much money I spent on sims in the past.

No need to be sorry for us. We know what we're doing.

If you don't have the whole game...You can't play the whole game!

I feel sorry as I know how much sims can cost that's all.

I may not have the whole game but depending on how supernatural is I may buy the stuff I have missed.

[Kestie Freehawk]

They changed the launcher mid stream in Sims 2 so that the buttons were different, why would they not do that with Sims 3? They do get pretty corroded.

[AzaraGore]

Just gives me more time to think about the Sims 4 and how I'll hate it at first then come to love it after getting tired of my Sims faces in TS3

[nikkiforest99]

I'm not buying the Sims 4 unless it's a major overhaul with TONS of new features and crap, moderately priced. Which means I won't be buying TS4 any time after it comes out. ;)
The reason I say this is that I haven't even come CLOSE to buying everything TS3 has to offer. I don't have WA, Gen, or SHT; or any of the stuff packs or store worlds (except Riverview, but that doesn't count). I'm planning on buying everything TS3 before I even venture into TS4. And considering I'm a teen who doesn't have a job (yet), the only cash flow I have coming in is what I get for holidays and such. Which means this might take a while.

[DigitalSympathies]

This thread:

90% People Who Hate Each Other
10% Actual Speculation

I go away for a few freaking days and this is what I come back to?! Children, off to your rooms.

*stern face*

[McChoclatey]

My computer would commit suicide. O_o

I wonder what the last expansion will be about...

[chreai]

I'm not buying the Sims 4 unless it's a major overhaul with TONS of new features and crap, moderately priced.

I agree. I've already decided that unless Sims 4 adds some extremely awesome new features that put TS3 to shame, I'm gonna stick with TS3 for at least a while. TS3 already has everything I need anyway. Well, almost.....But I will not say the S word here lest that particular topic start infesting this thread. I'm especially happy that we seem to be getting a decent, almost-akin-to-Sims-1's magic EP. That'll keep me entertained enough to not think about the other stuff we're currently missing. For a couple of months anyway. :lol:

[KISSESfromCARIE]

Look, I AM LIKING SIMS 3 MORE THAN I USED TO!! I cannot play sims 2 as it is not working and at the moment sims 3 is the only which is working. I am only saying this as I knew how much money I spent on sims in the past.



I feel sorry as I know how much sims can cost that's all.

I may not have the whole game but depending on how supernatural is I may buy the stuff I have missed.

A) Expensive/not expensive is subjective. Not everyone thinks Sims costs that much. I don't, but the way I view it is in relation to other things I buy, which tend to cost quite a bit.
B) If someone enjoys the game, I don't think they really care how much they spent.

Anyway, back on topic: I agree with those who think next year is Sims 3's final year. I think Sims 4 will come out sometime in 2014. Sims 3 came out in what, 2009? It's time is coming to an end.
I'll definitely buy Sims 4 unless they somehow REALLY screw it up. I've played since 2005 and I just wouldn't feel right not getting it!

[Misanthrope]

I'm not sure if I'd want Sims 4 when it comes out, because then I'd lose all the CC and would have to wait for expansion packs to enjoy the game. If only EA would fix all the bugs and make sims less pudding-face'd, I'd be super happy. I just don't really see a need for TS4, 'is all >__<

[clynnc19]

I hope they make a lot more expansions :) I love the Sims 3.

[DigitalSympathies]

I swear to God, if the graphics are anywhere below GTA V's . . . I'm not getting TS4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkkoHAzjnUs

[Spiritbw]

They will make Sims4 simply because there are lots of people still willing to buy the game. Refined technology and gameplay doesn't actually mean better, they can make a few changes here and there and call it a new game.

I've already decided that unless Sims 4 adds some extremely awesome new features that put TS3 to shame, I'm gonna stick with TS3 for at least a while. TS3 already has everything I need anyway. Well, almost.....But I will not say the S word here lest that particular topic start infesting this thread. I'm especially happy that we seem to be getting a decent, almost-akin-to-Sims-1's magic EP. That'll keep me entertained enough to not think about the other stuff we're currently missing. For a couple of months anyway. :lol:

That...pretty much is my argument in a nutshell.

Unless they think a majority of people would buy into the new game it would seem easier just to churn out expansions for the existing game. Unless there is some tweak they need to rebuild the core up I can't see EA going with it because if we're going after the people who will by anything Sim then expansion packs will do the same. They still get a bunch of cash either way and the expansion packs net the money for less development.

[eskie227]

That...pretty much is my argument in a nutshell.

Unless they think a majority of people would buy into the new game it would seem easier just to churn out expansions for the existing game. Unless there is some tweak they need to rebuild the core up I can't see EA going with it because if we're going after the people who will by anything Sim then expansion packs will do the same. They still get a bunch of cash either way and the expansion packs net the money for less development.

The problem with that line of thought, though, is that we already know the TS3 engine is not all that robust. You can't keep adding on EPs, and expect people to be able to play it on a mainstream, modern computer. I'm not even talking about those of us with higher end machines that can still choke on this game. The "AI", such as it is, is demanding. It's got lousy memory management. While it's no FPS, the graphics requirements for an "open world" are significant, and, from what I can tell, not exactly optimized. Face it, the base game engine was made 3-4 years ago (well actually ~5 if you count the start of development) when this would run on a P4 running XP (like it ever could). Even for that time, their graphics implementation was not "cutting edge".

If they want to maintain a profitable franchise, they will have to update the engine in the near future. They cannot do that to the current installed TS3 user base, as it would break too many users games. They have to step up with TS4. They have to attract both new and current players, and expect them to have more capable machines, running on Win 8 (I know, I'm not looking forward to Win 8 either). Will it be next year, or early 2014? I don't know. But I'm sure EA has a PowerPoint presentation somewhere that outlines the production timeline.

[purexevil666]

It could be a bug... It could be photoshop...

[ButchSims]

See, that's the trouble with the internet. someone posts something, people see it, they spread it around, and suddenly everyone starts to believe it's veracity, simply because so many people are talking about it. Until EA actually comes out and says, "This is what we are doing", EVERYTHING should be taken with a huge Morton container of salt. In video game land, things can change at any time. How many times have people read about this or that game, and then it got scrapped, or delayed, or the company busted out, or whatever? Until a game pack is actually for sale, in stores, and I can actually buy it and take it home to play, it doesn't exist yet for me. Maybe there will only be that many EP's left. Maybe there won't. Maybe it will end with Supernatural. Maybe the zombies in the game will crawl out of our computers, start the apocalypse, and end the world as we know it. Hell, It could not even matter, if what some people believe about the Mayan Calender is true. Speculation if fine, it creates anticipation for the next steps in the series, I just wish that some people (in general terms, not aimed at anyone specific) would stop jumping to conclusions, without all the facts. The truth is, we simply don't know for sure.

[fraavio]

This thread:

90% People Who Hate Each Other
10% Actual Speculation

I go away for a few freaking days and this is what I come back to?! Children, off to your rooms.

*stern face*

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Kudos to you.

[KGirl]

The big thing I want to post is that there's no "end" coming anytime soon regardless.

Even if it is actually true that there will be three EPs and two SPs and then no new stuff for TS3 will come out, we can still play it for years if we want-- many people are still playing TS2.

My best guess is there will be a TS4, but even if there is we can keep playing TS3 as long as we like. Assuming there is a TS4, I intend on waiting until there are some EP's and a good number of mods out before switching over to it. It's amazing how much modders end up doing. I remember when TS3 was new and everyone thought that we could have just one core mod and the rest would have to be tuning mods only.

Then someone came up with the scripting mod, and Twallan and others have done amazing things with scripting mods, which can do most of what core mods can do but don't conflict with each other.

I got off on a huge tangent there, but the point is that regardless of when EPs and SPs stop coming out, the end of any of our TS3 experience is our own decision, so the end isn't nigh regardless if you don't want it to be.

[DigitalSympathies]

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Kudos to you.

Failure to read my signature and ascertain that I have lady parts = -1 internets to you. But haha, thanks.

[Spiritbw]

The problem with that line of thought, though, is that we already know the TS3 engine is not all that robust. You can't keep adding on EPs, and expect people to be able to play it on a mainstream, modern computer. I'm not even talking about those of us with higher end machines that can still choke on this game. The "AI", such as it is, is demanding. It's got lousy memory management. While it's no FPS, the graphics requirements for an "open world" are significant, and, from what I can tell, not exactly optimized. Face it, the base game engine was made 3-4 years ago (well actually ~5 if you count the start of development) when this would run on a P4 running XP (like it ever could). Even for that time, their graphics implementation was not "cutting edge".

If they want to maintain a profitable franchise, they will have to update the engine in the near future. They cannot do that to the current installed TS3 user base, as it would break too many users games. They have to step up with TS4. They have to attract both new and current players, and expect them to have more capable machines, running on Win 8 (I know, I'm not looking forward to Win 8 either). Will it be next year, or early 2014? I don't know. But I'm sure EA has a PowerPoint presentation somewhere that outlines the production timeline.

Good points and I agree for the most part.

Thing is does any of us have an idea of what they want the next version to be capable of doing? What they think worked and did not work in this round? How to fix it so it does work as inteneded? Unless there is an EA employee here(and I doubt they would say) we've really got no idea. It really depends on what they are doing to make a new engine and how much of a change it is from the current one.

Thing is we have nothing to say that EA/Maxis is developing a new engine for the sims yet. Even then we have no idea when a Sims 4 would be coming out. Look at simcity. They are only coming out with a new game next year after ten years of development on the Glassbox engine for it. For all we know they could devote the same time to a new Sims engine which would mean not seeing Sims 4 till 2019. That's assuming they started development as soon as they finished work on the engine for the Sims 3.

We also have no proof that they are ending the EPs next year. We have possible placeholders but no info on weither they will make more after that, or even if they will actually make all those that might be placeholdered already. That is a possibility too after all, that a project gets cancelled if they think it's going over budget or turns out to be beyond thier abilities to do.

So why do I put money on them doing more EPs than Sims 4 for the immediate future? Because based on the info we do have confirmed, it's the more likely option.

[tangie0906]

So far the only things that I have read (and this has all been general info and not specifically related to TS4) is that players want online and multi-player games. Seriously, that's the direction the CEO is spouting about everytime he's interviewed.

On the positive side, there are some rumors afoot that the CEO might be getting ousted by his board. Those of us who aren't interested in online multiplayer (or don't trust EA to do it justice) can only hope it's true. :beer:

[eskie227]

Then of course, don't forget that EA sees their future as a total digital marketer. They would like to move their next gen gaming to a 100% digital distribution model. Which makes sense, as they can collect the full "retail price" without sharing revenue with a store (sorry Best Buy), and avoid the manufacturing costs of DVDs and their attendant distribution expenses. So it looks like Origin is what they want their "online store" to be. Of course, they still do a huge business in console gaming, so I'm not sure how that will work into their plans. The source of this info was an interview in a business publication, not a gaming source.

As to whether players in general want online and multi-player games is a matter of speculation. It depends on the game, and the audience. EA has faced significant resistance with that in the Sims franchise. Now, their corporate direction may very well be to encourage online and multi-player gaming, but that doesn't mean the Sims franchise is the best place for that. I guess we'll see what happens with he new Sim City and its "required" online interaction. Remember, even games that do well as MMOs, such a Diablo III, courtesy of Blizzard, can be bombs when poorly executed. Just read some Diablo/Blizzard forums to see the kind of player outrage that can be generated from a poorly implemented popular game. Maybe EA will take the hint, and not force a dramatic change to the Sims world by moving to a mandatory online play experience.

While TS3 may be the lowest selling version of the Sims franchise (TS1 and 2 way outsold it over time), it's still an important revenue source. One would think that pushing the Sims into a direction to which there is already opposition would give them pause. Sim City, OTOH, is picking up a series that has been dead. I can understand wanting to experiment with a new model there, as there is no actively purchasing community to disenfranchise. The last Sim City stopped production, what, 5 years ago? Whereas TS3 will still be not only played (as Sim City still is by some) but will be available for purchase until quite close to a TS4 release. I think that makes them different animals.

[Spiritbw]

So far the only things that I have read (and this has all been general info and not specifically related to TS4) is that players want online and multi-player games. Seriously, that's the direction the CEO is spouting about everytime he's interviewed.

On the positive side, there are some rumors afoot that the CEO might be getting ousted by his board. Those of us who aren't interested in online multiplayer (or don't trust EA to do it justice) can only hope it's true. :beer:

So do I. I did a Google for "EA always online" and got a few hundred hits calling it EA's Always On DRM policy. Given the lousy track record they have at release for these games I really got to wonder if such a person is trying to kill the company.


While TS3 may be the lowest selling version of the Sims franchise (TS1 and 2 way outsold it over time), it's still an important revenue source. One would think that pushing the Sims into a direction to which there is already opposition would give them pause. Sim City, OTOH, is picking up a series that has been dead. I can understand wanting to experiment with a new model there, as there is no actively purchasing community to disenfranchise. The last Sim City stopped production, what, 5 years ago? Whereas TS3 will still be not only played (as Sim City still is by some) but will be available for purchase until quite close to a TS4 release. I think that makes them different animals.

Ten years since the last Simcity, five if you count Societies(which many fans of the series don't count).

Looking at the simcity site and seeing nothing but three pages of threads that boil down to "DO NOT WANT" regarding the online and them still pushing ahead makes me wonder. Anyone that get's that game doesn't even really own thier own cities. It's going to all be cloud based.

Then if it doesn't do well you could face this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/03/ea-announces-server-shutdown-for-14-games-citing-dwindling-player-numbers/

No patch, no fix to let them keep the content they lost for those games no-longer being online and were all only on the server.

Think simport is bad?

[ButchSims]

Then if it doesn't do well you could face this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/03/ea-announces-server-shutdown-for-14-games-citing-dwindling-player-numbers/

No patch, no fix to let them keep the content they lost for those games no-longer being online and were all only on the server.

Think simport is bad? To be fair, It looks like many of those titles fall into their "sports" lines of games, which under-sell in general anyway. They seem to pump them out every year, without actually changing/implementing any new gameplay aspects. I would rather they drop some underperforming titles if it meant they would focus on delivering better games for the titles that do sell.

However, the fact that they make people pay to play, even after purchasing the game, and then shutting it down after only one year is kinda skeevy.

[Auroradreamergirl]

Probably been sad before, but I will not be buying Sims 4 when first released. I was a big hater of sims 3 when it first came out. I was so disappointed with it. I love it now, since mods and things were created. I honestly think that if I am to ever by the sims 4 it would be atleast a couple of months after the release and I have confirmed that there is mods to fix annoying glitches/errors/ea-settings to it. Unless I get it as a gift then maybe I will try lol

[writerchick]

The problem with that line of thought, though, is that we already know the TS3 engine is not all that robust. You can't keep adding on EPs, and expect people to be able to play it on a mainstream, modern computer. I'm not even talking about those of us with higher end machines that can still choke on this game. The "AI", such as it is, is demanding. It's got lousy memory management. While it's no FPS, the graphics requirements for an "open world" are significant, and, from what I can tell, not exactly optimized. Face it, the base game engine was made 3-4 years ago (well actually ~5 if you count the start of development) when this would run on a P4 running XP (like it ever could). Even for that time, their graphics implementation was not "cutting edge".

If they want to maintain a profitable franchise, they will have to update the engine in the near future.

What I'm about to say is pure speculation...

From what's been reported online, it appears that's what Refresh may end up being: a total reboot of the game engine. Now, take that with a grain of salt, because I'm no insider... but that's certainly what Refresh is looking like to me.

If that's what Refresh is, then that means EA can continue to pump out more EPs and SPs for TS3 until they run out of ideas, because they'll be plugging them into a revitalized/improved base game engine which can handle the load. (Is anyone else wondering why the latest patch addressed long-standing problems with the game? Maybe this was some kind of test run for an even more massive fix... Also, with the Lucky Palms world, they just proved they could change/improve the look of water in the game. Why would they be doing all this changing/cleaning up if they were planning on scrapping the game for TS4 in the next year or so?)

With all the ideas for EPs that EA presented in some recent surveys, it seems plausible that they'll be creating those sooner or later. Sure, it could be for TS4, but that's not the game they were asking us about, is it?

Also, as someone else said, their idea is to take the franchise into an online-only direction, where players are connected in kinda creepy ways with their games. There's already been a lot of outcry over simple things like Simsport (I simply refuse to use it, thank you very much). How many of you want the game to know where you are at all times in real life, and tell you how to hook up with your friends?

So, what if they're planning on continuing the TS3 series for players who really don't want the various online aspects they're planning, while developing TS4 for those who do? Yes, we've never seen that kind of approach where two competing lines within the same franchise are in production at the same time, but you have to admit, it'd be a pretty bold and innovative concept.

Like I said, it's just my idle speculation... but I wouldn't mind them cleaning up the base game code while improving the AI system in the current game and continuing to release EPs and SPs over the next few years.

[Duxfever]

In a way, all of that actually makes sense prior to what's been going down at EA lately. Have you heard the news that there'll be a Battlefield 4 Beta coming with Medal of Honor: Warfighter pre-orders?

DICE recently said that even though they're releasing Battlefield 4 during the run of Battlefield 3, they'll still continue to support Battlefield 3 when 4 releases.


I know it's different companies and everything, but they're all under EA, so it's all the same idea. Perhaps, TS4 and BF4 will, in fact become more online-oriented. And the reason they'll continue support for the previous titles is because they know that not everyone will abide to those terms.

But like you said, it's all just speculation.

[eskie227]

What I'm about to say is pure speculation...

From what's been reported online, it appears that's what Refresh may end up being: a total reboot of the game engine. Now, take that with a grain of salt, because I'm no insider... but that's certainly what Refresh is looking like to me.

If that's what Refresh is, then that means EA can continue to pump out more EPs and SPs for TS3 until they run out of ideas, because they'll be plugging them into a revitalized/improved base game engine which can handle the load. (Is anyone else wondering why the latest patch addressed long-standing problems with the game? Maybe this was some kind of test run for an even more massive fix... Also, with the Lucky Palms world, they just proved they could change/improve the look of water in the game. Why would they be doing all this changing/cleaning up if they were planning on scrapping the game for TS4 in the next year or so?)

With all the ideas for EPs that EA presented in some recent surveys, it seems plausible that they'll be creating those sooner or later. Sure, it could be for TS4, but that's not the game they were asking us about, is it?

Also, as someone else said, their idea is to take the franchise into an online-only direction, where players are connected in kinda creepy ways with their games. There's already been a lot of outcry over simple things like Simsport (I simply refuse to use it, thank you very much). How many of you want the game to know where you are at all times in real life, and tell you how to hook up with your friends?

So, what if they're planning on continuing the TS3 series for players who really don't want the various online aspects they're planning, while developing TS4 for those who do? Yes, we've never seen that kind of approach where two competing lines within the same franchise are in production at the same time, but you have to admit, it'd be a pretty bold and innovative concept.

Like I said, it's just my idle speculation... but I wouldn't mind them cleaning up the base game code while improving the AI system in the current game and continuing to release EPs and SPs over the next few years.

Well, a few items about your thoughtful post.

First, if Refresh is a truly updated game engine, EA will essentially be forcing all current TS3 owners to buy the new basegame, that is, if they want to buy any EP following Refresh. It might be possible, but would be a terrible business decision, as folks who bought the original basegame TS3 will be forced to upgrade. It would also create the problem of maintaining backwards compatibility with all "Pre-Refresh" EPs and SPs. That alone would severely limit the extent by which the current game engine can be modified. So, while possible, I would put it in the not probable category.

The second item you raised was TS3 for us antisocial types, and TS4 for the online socially addicted crowd. Why split your customer base like that, and have to supply tech support and patch updates to 2 versions? We know that EA sees the future as being online, whether their customers want it or not, so I would expect TS4 to follow the corporate line, while TS3 is, by the standard EA is creating for itself, is a dead end in development strategy. EA is a big enough company that development teams are forced to adopt the corporate strategic strategy, adapting their game to the policy, whether appropriate or not. As has been pointed out, just look at Simport.

I would love to know the real figures for gameplay on Sims Online/Social, whatever they're calling it now. How many players, what's the frequency of play, how long is the average player sticking with the game? If the numbers are high, I guess EA can make a good argument for pushing development in that direction. If low, then EA must really be blind.

[writerchick]

I would love to know the real figures for gameplay on Sims Online/Social, whatever they're calling it now. How many players, what's the frequency of play, how long is the average player sticking with the game? If the numbers are high, I guess EA can make a good argument for pushing development in that direction. If low, then EA must really be blind.

I can't offer any numbers, but will say that I used to play Farmville pretty avidly, along with a handful of other Facebook games. Sims Social was one, but I played that for less than a day. The reason? I didn't want to plunk down real money for yet another online game, particularly one where my energy is limited. For me, the beauty of Farmville was that as long as you had in-game cash (not real money) to plant crops, you could just keep on plugging away. With the limited energy games, there's only so much activity you can do until you have to do something else (like play a different game while you power up in the first one). If you want more energy, you either have to beg it from your friends or buy it. Frankly, I didn't like my play limited like that. So that one died a very quick death for me.

True enough, I may not be their target demographic and I may not be indicative of most people and how they like to play online games... all I know is for me, if I wanted to play The Sims, I'd much prefer just playing TS3, as opposed to playing a very pared down Sims Social that I have to quit after thirty minutes or so.

But that right there is the difference between what TS3 is about versus what EA is saying the direction of gaming's future will be -- TS3 is self-contained play for a single player, whereas the future they're heading toward is online social gaming. Individual play allows for long play sessions and isn't reliant on the availability of other players cooperating with you in order to achieve your goals. On the other hand, social gaming is all about connecting with others and playing cooperatively.

Some of us just don't want anyone else in our Sims games. That won't change, no matter what bells and whistles they throw in there to entice us.

You said something about (sorry, I deleted the rest of your reply, so can't quote it directly) why would EA dilute their revenue stream by keeping TS3 in production while also selling TS4? For me, if they go to an online-only, social networking game with TS4, they're cutting any possible revenue from me out of their earnings. I don't need to play their game that badly. So for people like me (and I have no idea how representative I am), if EA goes online-only, then I'm outta here. I'll play my TS3 without spending any more money with EA, and that will be that. So I could ask the flip question: why would EA completely discount a possible revenue stream because it doesn't follow their concept of online-only delivery? Why put all your effort into a direction which might not pan out?

At the very least, it's possible they'd produce the two games concurrently until they see which one is more profitable, at which time they'd make a decision to cut one lose, if necessary. Or not...

But that's my opinion, FWIW.

As for your other points in reply to my previous post, all I can say is *shrug*. We'll see when it comes out or when EA gives us some details what Refresh is, what it does, and how it does it. Until then, we're all just guessing. I can offer no further response to your points, because what can I say? Neither of us know what the future holds. I've thrown in my two cents, which is worth the same as everyone else's...

[chyrun]

Sims 4 teh Internetz. Eww.

[Petchy]

Alan Bradley: Excuse me
Richard Mackey: Yes... Alan
Alan Bradley: Given the prices we charge to students and schools, what sort of improvements have been made in Flynn... I mean, um, ENCOM OS-12?
Richard Mackey: This year we put a "12" on the box.

A thousand win-points to you, sir. I applaud the.

But on topic I think it's hilarious that I'm only just starting to get the hang of TS3 and people are already predicting it's demise! I think the game has a few more years in it still, for sure, I expect there to be a gap between "the end" and TS4's arrival or speculation (I predict that EA will place focus on SimCity for awhile before directing fans to Sims again) and there to be a LOT of development. There just doesn't seem the "expansion" of raw game this time around, and I think the team will be working a lot on how to change the feel of the game, the stability, everything from ground-up will be looking at and being tweaked.. at least in theory.
My favourite part of the game process, however, is concept art so I really hope some of that gets released within the next few years. However, I'm definite that TS3 won't be shutting itself down for a good, long while.

[kiwi_tea]

This just speculation, but could The Sims 3 actually be the first phase of Skynet?

[eskie227]

Writerchick, I agree with all your points. I also fall in the "make this online only, and I'm gone" crowd. In a sane business world, we shouldn't even have to worry, as no company would shift their successful model to an untested model which already has customers growling about. After all, look what happened with "New Coke". You would think EA might remember corporate disasters like that. Unfortunately, when any company invests heavily in creating a new strategic vision (both financially, as they're not cheap to "develop", and politically, as in senior management tying their future to the success of the chosen business direction) it is very hard to dissuade them from following that course, until it becomes clear that they were either, one, geniuses with great vision when it works out, or two, they were idiots for destroying the underpinnings of a successful business. I guess we'll find out over the next few years who has the better vision in the evolution of the Sims franchise. I'm betting on us customers, not the visionary executives at EA when it comes to the Sims. I will say, though, that there are many other games and game genres that may very well benefit from this new direction, and EA will come out a winner.

[simsample]

This just speculation, but could The Sims 3 actually be the first phase of Skynet?

Oh my goodness, we will have mentally deranged self-awareness any day now!

[rian90]

Online has become big because of data-mining. I suspect that gaming and gamers have not increased the revenues quickly enough for the stockholders and they believe data-mining is the next big thing. So in some ways, they will abandon gamers for something that makes more bucks. Customer bases grow when companies can use players to advertise their goods, such as getting your friend to play so you can play together online. Each new customer is new information to sell...and they bring in their friends so more information. ST was a test of this...can people get their friends to play just so they can simport them across the intertubes?

[eskie227]

Online has become big because of data-mining. I suspect that gaming and gamers have not increased the revenues quickly enough for the stockholders and they believe data-mining is the next big thing. So in some ways, they will abandon gamers for something that makes more bucks. Customer bases grow when companies can use players to advertise their goods, such as getting your friend to play so you can play together online. Each new customer is new information to sell...and they bring in their friends so more information. ST was a test of this...can people get their friends to play just so they can simport them across the intertubes?

Well, they didn't get any of my friends.

[writerchick]

Remember back several years ago, when companies started getting on the internet, and just about the first thing some did was sell their online customer lists to third parties? Remember what the outcome was, when customers realized the companies they'd entrusted with their private information sold that to other companies, which immediately started spamming them?

That is why so many companies now have boilerplate explanations about how they'll never sell or share your personal info with other companies. Except a lot of social networking sites like Facebook think that since they offer their site for free to users, they can go ahead and exploit all your personal information, including who your friends are, the companies you prefer, etc, and sell that info to other companies.

It seems like a very dangerous game Facebook and other social networking sites are playing with data mining, and any game company that thinks they're going to be able to monetize data mining by selling players' personal information is going to get a very rude awakening. Their plan of forcing players to pimp out their friends in order to get them online, too, will fail miserably.

Seriously... the whole "you have to add four or five or ten more friends to your friends list to expand to the next farm level" is a big part of why I quit Farmville and other social networking games. I just got tired adding people just to play a stupid game. So not worth it. I actually quit Facebook altogether and deleted my account to prevent EA and any other company from trying to exploit my social networking habits and connections. I refuse to allow companies to exploit people who know me just because they're acquainted with me. So in my case, EA's plans literally drove me off social networks -- not that I mind, really. Yes, it'd be nice to be able to DM with my sister because we're both online at the same time, but if I really want to interact with her I can still call her on her cellphone. And since actually talking to someone and hearing their voice is so much better than typing at them, it's really a win.

As for the topic, I really don't think TS3 is shutting down anytime soon. Yes, I'm aware of what the lifespan of TS1 and TS2 were, but I also know that neither of those had open neighborhoods and CAS. If we could just get more animations, interactions, and stability in the platform and AI... in other words, more depth and breadth in TS3, it'd be perfectly playable for years to come. So it seems like EA investing production costs into stabilizing the game mechanics would be money well-spent. But, maybe that's just me and my 20th Century thinking... :lol:

[zigersimmer]

writerchick, did you know that the primary financial backers for facebook are the CIA and the DoD?

[writerchick]

writerchick, did you know that the primary financial backers for facebook are the CIA and the DoD?

Let's just say I'm not unaware of the connections between them and leave it at that... ;)

[eskie227]

Actually, the agency that likes Facebook more than anyone else is NSA. Bet they even have a program in place to monitor online gaming patterns already ;)

[fraavio]

Failure to read my signature and ascertain that I have lady parts = -1 internets to you. But haha, thanks.

Gentlementlery and Scholarness are traits inherently awesome, therefore have no sex.

[Spiritbw]

To be fair, It looks like many of those titles fall into their "sports" lines of games, which under-sell in general anyway. They seem to pump them out every year, without actually changing/implementing any new gameplay aspects. I would rather they drop some underperforming titles if it meant they would focus on delivering better games for the titles that do sell.

However, the fact that they make people pay to play, even after purchasing the game, and then shutting it down after only one year is kinda skeevy.

Well, to be fair 9/10ths of EA's releases have always been sports games. Still, it's suprising to see just how many servers they ahve shut down to date.

http://www.ea.com/1/service-updates

Sims Social for facebook was shutdown I see from the list.

They also seem to be shutting down a lot of the Pogo stuff they aquired.

[writerchick]

http://www.ea.com/1/service-updates

Sims Social for facebook was shutdown I see from the list.

No, SimSocial on Facebook is gone, but The Sims Social (which is the new version of their online game) is still there.

Yes, it's confusingly similar.

[tangie0906]

One of the reasons that I'm skeptical that they will upgrade the game engine of TS3 is that for most of TS3's existence they have mostly refused to spend any resources on things that customers have already paid for. Why should they spend time and money on fixing problems or content that doesn't work, when they can spend those resources instead on making new things that customers will pay for? (Why a lot of us buy it anyway is a whole other study in psychology, ha ha). But up until recently, that seemed to be exactly their attitude.

However, within the last few months, since the release of Showtime I would guess, I will concede that they have begun to revisit items and game play and enhance previously developed content. Examples include Store items that didn't function correctly that they have now fixed or the fact that, among other things, they are adding an on/off switch for famous animal vampires ( ha, just kidding ;) ) in the next EP. This is pretty unusual when you consider their history prior to the past few months. When you consider the very serious and realistic gameplay style we had in the beginning of this series, you could even go farther and point to the fact that there is a Supernatural EP at all to see that they are finally listening to players and their compaints. You even see more gurus participating on the official forums than you used to, which is another clue that they are trying to demonstrate that they are listening to players.

Perhaps someone new in charge has been changing course and actually trying to please paying customers, or maybe they are thinking there is a future for TS3 that they want to preserve. Too early to tell, IMO, but I do believe that there has definitely been a change in direction.

[Spiritbw]

No, SimSocial on Facebook is gone, but The Sims Social (which is the new version of their online game) is still there.

Yes, it's confusingly similar.

Your telling me. I haven't been on Facebook in months and The Sims Social really did nothing for me so I could believe it.

[lisfyre]

Well, they didn't get any of my friends.

They didn't get me and hubby nevermind friends. For the record, there are only 2 other people we know that play sims - hubby's co-worker and his wife and they're still playing Sims 2 not Sims 3 :rofl: The flip side of that is, we both play MMORPG's and have lots of RL (12 of us that also play AD&D monthly) friends that play the same games. We're all in guilds together and go hunt, farm and XP together daily. They don't play Sims and we kinda get the odd look that says "you're play what?!?!?!?".

[tizerist]

The end of the game (updates / EP's) to me is actually where the game begins.
Think how cool it will be when you can have 100+ gameplay hacks, knowing none of them will go out of date. Alot of my neighbourhoods are set up so that when this game is finally complete, after all those years, the fun can really start.
Similar to Skyrim, I'll come back to it in a year or 2, when updates are done, and mods are starting to come into their own.
I'll use Fallout New Vegas as an example. Anyone coming into that game fresh today, will have an absolute whale of a time. 5 DLC's from the start, the release of Beyond Boulder Dome (a mod bigger than some games) and being able to insert the mammoth Fallout 3 (and his DLC's too!) in it's entirety as a mod, there is a trillion hours of gameplay, and a gameworld bigger than some countries.
In some ways I'll be sad when TS3 is complete, especially if we don't get retail stores *stares at EA* but it will be a good day too. But we don't need this to end just yet. It will have been a miserable failure if it did.

[olomaya]

writerchick, did you know that the primary financial backers for facebook are the CIA and the DoD?

That's just a myth though they did invest early on in what became Google Earth. The largest shareholder of Facebook is actually a Russian company, I believe. Also considering that most Chinese use other social networking sites like Weibo and Russians prefer LinkedIn, I don't know how good of an investment Facebook would be for the CIA anyway. :)

On topic, I'm also looking forward to "the end" of TS3 mostly because I enjoyed TS2 so much more when Apartment Life came out then when, say, Nightlife, came out. The more time spent on the game means more EPs, more content and more importantly, more stuff from the community. Just because EA stops making more content for the game doesn't mean that I have to stop playing it. I don't think I will jump to TS4 as quickly as I did TS3 unless there is a huge game changer (and I can't even think of what I would consider to fit that) in a new iteration of this series.

[SeeMyu]

Just adding my "2 cents" in.. This is probably the reason why the EP's and store content are starting to turn to crap and give us that thought of "Well.. you could have worked a little harder on that." Most head Sims 3 developers have moved back to EA Redwood Shores, and which is why you see most sims 3 developers that you've never even heard of on the live chats and such. TS4 is obviously in development (was accidently leaked via twitter in 2010) and and becoming more of EA's focus now because it's the end of the Sims 3 series. We never really see any promotional videos anymore, barely any updates, and then we get shitty content (Master-Suite/Diesel) that was most likely put together in a week. This is sort of how TS2 ended.. with the not-so-great EP's at the end of the series because they were most likely putting all of their focus on TS3.

If TS3: Seasons comes out in November like it is rumored to be, then TS4 should be announced somewhere in the middle of 2013 and be released mid to late 2014. :P Obviously, this is just what I've put together.. I could be very well wrong though.. we just never really know with EA

[crocobaura]

I don't understand what's the rush to release TS4, especially when this means we get half developed TS3 EPs and probably shoddy TS4 base game too. They should concentrate to fix TS3 and then take their time with development of TS4.

[eskie227]

Well, for those of you wondering what could be done to improve the graphics in a new game engine, check out this link to the new Cry3Engine SDK available now. This is what will power Crysis 3. If you need to ask if your machine can run it, it probably can't. We can all only hope EA comes within the distance to the moon with this. http://dvice.com/archives/2012/04/realism-in-new.php

[writerchick]

Well, for those of you wondering what could be done to improve the graphics in a new game engine, check out this link to the new Cry3Engine SDK available now. This is what will power Crysis 3. If you need to ask if your machine can run it, it probably can't. We can all only hope EA comes within the distance to the moon with this. http://dvice.com/archives/2012/04/realism-in-new.php

I'd love to see Sims that realistic!

[Spiritbw]

It would be nice. Getting that realistic starts hitting the uncanny valley though when your using it for animation.

[purexevil666]

http://simsvip.com/?p=14295 Time to discuss back this thread... Apparently, there's one EP left and 2 more stuff back along with Seaside stuff (Rumored). And game files usually never lie...

[pico22]

[IMG]... Cry3Engine SDK ...
I want to see that face in motion, speaking, frowning, smiling ... As presented in the demo, it only proves that they can make ears more realistic than anybody else.

[Simoleon Real Estate]

I agree. I've already decided that unless Sims 4 adds some extremely awesome new features that put TS3 to shame, I'm gonna stick with TS3 for at least a while.

What if that one thing that was different was the ability to have Glass Roofs, or Curved Walls?

Changing one thing, but a HUGE thing.....

That would be interesting.
I think all current ts3 users would go for that in a heartbeat.

[writerchick]

http://simsvip.com/?p=14295 Time to discuss back this thread... Apparently, there's one EP left and 2 more stuff back along with Seaside stuff (Rumored). And game files usually never lie...

Yeah, because they've never updated the game files before.

According to Graham Nardone's twitter feed:

Any speculation that Sims 3 is coming to an end is that author's own personal opinion and not based on anything we've said. I think The Sims 3 still has plenty of life left in it :)

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/i8feql

They gave us a survey about weather, and what do we have coming out in November? The Seasons EP. Also in the survey were mentioned EPs which centered on farming, high finance, cruises, etc. It's pretty clear the Sims 3 team have plenty of ideas for new EPs and SPs.

Edited to add:

Looked through the surveys posted over at SimsVIP. Besides Seasons, EA asked for player input on the following concepts:


Billionaire lifestyle pack -- how would you live if you were a billionaire?
In-depth University pack -- allows child prodigies through adult/elders to attend university
Farming -- more harvestables, cash crops, livestock, selling excess meat, eggs, milk, etc; fighting the elements.
Reality TV star
Island Lifestyle
Ultra Vacation/Cruises


Just how likely any of these are is definitely in question, but I'd say that the Island lifestyle one, along with the vacation/cruise one and the farming concept could be pretty likely, since all of those dovetail nicely into the features of the Seasons EP. Also, Island lifestyle would introduce the mermaid supernatural for the EP, which a lot of players have indicated they'd really like to see.

The Reality TV star one could be a nice addition to Showtime, since it also deals with the acquisition of another sort of fame and includes elements to move more gameplay into the online realm. (Uploading videos of your sim doing outrageous things to become a reality TV star.)

University is an EP players have been begging for almost as much as Seasons, so it may well come to pass... it would be great if the concept was expanded well beyond the TS2 version, which the survey indicates it would be.

Maybe the least likely of all six is the billionaire lifestyle pack, but I can see how it could also be developed.

Whether EA has real intentions of developing any of these, of course, remains to be seen. But they've at least been considering doing so, since all were included on the surveys, along with Seasons.

Even if EPs are released more frequently than 2 per year, we'd still have at least another two full years or more of TS3, if these survey EPs come to pass.

[Drakesecaravdis]

I really hope they don't make it social like some of you are thinking. I can't stand how the world has gotten obsessed with this new social networking. while I love talking online way better than I do the phone, social networking is just boring in general (I miss the days of Myspace. that was actually cool) Facebook is slightly better than Twitter but I still don't really like it and the games are the worst. I love hidden object games but the one on Facebook I got bored with really fast. I don't know why but it's just not as fun. I'm barely on the networks and I only have a FB and a Twitter because I feel I have no choice..everyone moved to Twitter and FB I only got originally to find someone. Sims should not be the same way as this..meaning I shouldn't feel like in order to play I have no choice
but oh well they just won't get my business either...I'll find something else to do when I'm not playing 3.

as for the survey, Billionaire doesn't sound like it would have much to it.

[aeval99]

If I had to guess, I would say that Sims 4 is likely to be released in the first half of 2014. That would suggest that we will get two more EPs and probably two more stuff packs and a world or 3 in the store. One EP will mostly likely come from the list above and the other will probably be similar to Apartment Life, aka, All the stuff you've been whining for/shit we had lying around Pack.

I'd like to see farming and something similar to OFB. We can make a ton of stuff in the game, I'd really like a place to sell it properly (not the consignment store) and open restaurants. After that, I can't think of anything else I want. :D

[zigersimmer]

That's just a myth though they did invest early on in what became Google Earth. The largest shareholder of Facebook is actually a Russian company, I believe. Also considering that most Chinese use other social networking sites like Weibo and Russians prefer LinkedIn, I don't know how good of an investment Facebook would be for the CIA anyway. :)


I'll bet you also believe in magic bullets.

[kennyinbmore]

and open restaurants. After that, I can't think of anything else I want. :DI've got my Seasons coming, open restaurants would be the last thing on my TS3 wish list. After that, bring on an offline TS4

[Dramamine]

I'll bet you also believe in magic bullets.

But... but I have a Magic Bullet (http://www.buythebullet.com) , and it's incredibly convenient. I made salsa with it last night and then ground coffee this morning. A great little invention, imho.

Don't knock it 'til you try it, sheesh.

[shadedgrey63]

But... but I have a Magic Bullet (http://www.buythebullet.com) , and it's incredibly convenient. I made salsa with it last night and then ground coffee this morning. A great little invention, imho.

Is that from the makers of the 'Baby Bullet' that gets advertised in the wee hours of the morning? haha :D

[eskie227]

Is that from the makers of the 'Baby Bullet' that gets advertised in the wee hours of the morning? haha :D

They make one of those you can put a baby in??