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DSS - A more realistic romance system (and more)

by CtfG Posted 16th May 2008 at 8:19 AM - Updated 18th May 2008 at 11:54 AM by CtfG
132 Comments / replies (Who?) - 23 Feedback Posts
Picked Upload! This is a picked upload! It showcases some of the best talent and creativity available on MTS and in the community.

(Edit: This text was re-written because the first description led to misunderstandings due to my not-so-good english)

DSS ("Dark Side Of Sims 2") consists of three interacting components:
a) modified relation behavior, based on attraction (called SRM = Sims Relation Manager)
b) teen-adult relations, including teen pregnancy (called TAM = Teen-Adult Manager)
c) more difficulties, more diseases, more deaths, more breaking objects, all based on both random dice rolls and sims' / pets' personality (the actual "DSS" itself)

Sims Relation Manager (SRM) and Teen-Adult Manager (TAM) are finished so far and included in this alpha release. The main component DSS will follow as soon as these two components are mostly bug free.

Now what exactly do these components?

a) SRM (Sims Relation Manager) takes care that all romantic interactions like flirt, kiss, hug etc. can only take place if the chemistry (attraction) between two sims is high enough. A "Wolf Whistle" requires low attraction, while "Woohoo", "Marry" and "Have Baby" demand a very high attraction. Two sims with low attraction to each other cannot fall in love, even if they flirt or exchange a romantic kiss. To check whether the attraction is high enough, the in-built "DSS-Spy" can be used. A detailed listing of the seven new attraction levels can be found in the enclosed "DSS Manual", which covers just the basics for now and will be completed with the ongoing project.

b) TAM (Teen-Adult Manager) allows teen woohoo, teen-adult and teen-elder relations, teen pregnancy, home birth and teaching the later toddler to walk, speak etc. As it was suggested in this thread, these teen-adult options can be turned off and on individually for each lot. By default, they are all turned off. Though the whole "DSS" is meant to make the game more realistic, more challenging and to bring in a lot more problems and catastrophes, I decided to implement these "switches" because 1.) depending on education, culture, religion and/or other factors, teen-adult relations might be offensive or even illegal in some countries, and 2.) to let the player decide to which extent the realism shall go in this point.

These two components are quite complete by now, and I hereby ask the community to test this alpha as excessive as possible, because this is a task I cannot do on my own. It will simply cost too much time, and it would take me probably months to test every single aspect.

c) DSS itself exists yet only as ideas in a text file and waits to be programmed. This component is designed to add the most realism into the game, like breaking kitchen counters, breaking sofas and beds that are used too intensively, power outages during thunderstorms, accidents on the way to work / school, random physical attacks by mean sims and wolves and dogs, slower job promotion, and even unpredictable deaths of sims / pets in all age groups. Since "The Sims 2" introduced aging and death at a certain age, I found it only fair to add a (very) small chance of death through other opportunities.

The bad news: Since the whole package of DSS with its three components modifies a big amount of resources, DSS is likely to conflict with many already existing hacks. It will not be compatible with hacks like "Teen Woohoo" or "InTeenimater". It will not be compatible with age controllers, visitor controllers, LifeTime Wants hacks, phone hacks, job and school hacks. All of these (and some more) are already included or will be programmed with the ongoing project. The reason for this is: All components interact with each other, like gearwheels in a clock. The three main components will come as a single package, but not as modules, since modules would require that I write several versions of each and every resource. As a short example: When two sims sit on a sofa and want to cuddle, at first "The Sims 2" does all necessary tests if this interaction is possible, and if yes, my SRM checks the attraction value, my TAM checks for same or different ages, and my DSS will check if the sofa is about to break when the sims "Make Out" during cuddling. It is simply too much work to set it up as modules, and it is not designed to be that way. I accepted the criticism about teen-adult and teen-elder relations, and I converted this into the described configuration options. But I cannot split the three components and create three different modules. All three components very often use the same resources and therefore must be combined into one single package.

If you don't like the idea of having so many hacks in one single pack, search for other hacks MTS2 is full of good hacks, while my DSS is just an offer to those player who think the original game is too easy or too boring with its fast falling-in-love behavior.

"DSS" supports (or will support) all Expansion Packs through separate "AddOn's". These are included in the .RAR file and will also be updated and extended with the ongoing project. Right now, "DSS" includes:
- DSS-Configurator, to allow/disallow teen woohoo, teen-adult relations, teen-elder relations
- DSS-Spy to check other sim's aspiration and attraction value
- Age Controller for sims (pets to follow)
- SimRefresher (takes care of all the motives that drain too fast and sends babies, toddlers and children to bed at 9pm, letting them sleep the whole night)
- Lifetime Wants Extension, for a wider range of possible LTW per aspiration
- CtfG's Garden mods, Homework mods
- an improved Compost Bin, based on CtfG's mod and following some suggestions in that thread
- Tending harvestable plants, pulling weeds and trimming bushes creates invisible "trash" on the sim and can be deposited in the new compost bin.
- Slightly improved crafting times for all crafting stations from OfB and FT, and almost completely new crafting costs which allow to run a profitable business (needs testing, especially the very fast crafting times when employees work at a station)
- Modified school times for children (their school day ends at noon, one hour before teens come home)
- Sims can sell aspiration points. 10.000 points = §1,000. Available from a sim's pie menu, "DSS..."
- Reduced bonus on job promotion (new salary plus 10% only, no longer new salary x3)
- Re-written "Show Hidden Skills" from CtfG now shows also Badge progress
And a few other things I can't remember right now. A full list will be included later in the manual.

It is higly recommended to start a completely new neighborhood after installing DSS. For instance: the married adults "Jocque" from FreeTime were not able to kiss because of low attraction. Only after resetting their zodiac signs and turn-on's they finally behaved like married sims and had all the pie menu options one would expect. To avoid these problems, it is best to create a new neighborhood and set up all user-sims as needed. Please consider before you install DSS that this neighborhood might get lost with a later version of DSS! For this alpha test, if possible focus on a) the romantic interactions and their existence / absence in relation to the attraction value, and b) on teen-adult / teen-elder relations including teen pregnancy. My test sims had all in all five babies, but that doesn't mean that it will work always.

Besides of this, the existing DSS version can be used as a mod that redefines the romantic behavior as stated above. If you are happy enough with this and do not need any catastrophes in your game, feel free to use this mod and post your experiences here. This will also help to find out what is wrong, what could be improved, and what is working.

As usual with pre-release versions, I will collect all problems and fix them bit by bit. Post here if you find errors, bugs, problems, wrong values, or if you have suggestions. When this alpha test for the components SRM and TAM is done, I will start with the DSS itself. Right now, after a) updating all of CtfG's mods and b) setting up and coding DSS, I'm a bit tired and need a few days for myself, though I'll check here at least once a day. I just want to see something different than the SimPE screen for now

Thank you in advance for participating, and good luck to all your sims!


DSS needs the Expansion Packs "Nightlife" and "Freetime".

Additional Credits:
CtfG, who has left TheSims2, for his work on all the mods I included here with his approval.

You must have the expansion or stuff packs listed below installed to use this custom content. Please see the post text for any exceptions.

Sims 2 Nightlife Free Time
Key: - File was updated after upload was posted
Filename - Tip: You can click the magnifying glass to see the archive contents Size Downloads Date

Size: 241.1 KB · Downloads: 32,226 · 16th May 2008
241.1 KB 32,226 16th May 2008
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Basic Download and Install Instructions:

1. Download: Click the download link to save the .rar or .zip file(s) to your computer.

2. Extract the zip, rar, or 7z file.

3. Place in Downloads Folder: Cut and paste the .package file(s) into your Downloads folder:
  • Origin (Ultimate Collection): Users\(Current User Account)\Documents\EA Games\The Sims™ 2 Ultimate Collection\Downloads\
  • Non-Origin, Windows Vista/7/8/10: Users\(Current User Account)\Documents\EA Games\The Sims 2\Downloads\
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  • Mac: Users\(Current User Account)\Documents\EA Games\The Sims 2\Downloads
  • Mac x64: /Library/Containers/com.aspyr.sims2.appstore/Data/Library/Application Support/Aspyr/The Sims 2/Downloads
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132 Comments / Replies (Who?) - 116 Feedback Posts, 8 Thanks Posts
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Not actually evil.
#2 Old 17th May 2008 at 3:03 AM
Thanks for this, romance is entirely too easy. Would you be at all willing, if its easy to do, to provide a version without the teen/adult romance? I don't want random adult sims, especially elders, hitting on my jailbait teen sims and vice versa, eeeew. Or just make it so that it can only happen if player initiated?

Please spay or neuter your pets. --- Cat Music Video! --- my meshes
Test Subject
#3 Old 17th May 2008 at 3:45 AM
This sounds like quite the project. Will part 1 work on its own? and am I correct in reading that it doesn't conflict with inteen (but part 2 does)?
The Anti-Social Extrovert
#4 Old 17th May 2008 at 4:01 AM
Wow...this is intense! I will definitely be trying this out! >^.^< Enjoy your break...from that read I know you are in need of one :D

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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#5 Old 17th May 2008 at 5:30 AM
Originally Posted by CatOfEvilGenius
Thanks for this, romance is entirely too easy. Would you be at all willing, if its easy to do, to provide a version without the teen/adult romance? I don't want random adult sims, especially elders, hitting on my jailbait teen sims and vice versa, eeeew. Or just make it so that it can only happen if player initiated?

Two separate versions were my initial idea, especially since I included elders in this romance system. But when I found out that both the age checks amd the relation checks for flirting & kissing use almost always the same functions, I did it all in one. But it will be splitted later on, yes. I tried everything to set DSS up as a "modular" system, and as soon as part 1 and 2 are working, the teen-adult relation will be transferred to its own module, leaving the choice to include it in the game to the players.

Originally Posted by moonracer1313
This sounds like quite the project. Will part 1 work on its own? and am I correct in reading that it doesn't conflict with inteen (but part 2 does)?

The way DSS is set up right now, the package includes both part 1 and 2, and both parts conflict with InTeen. For instance: two sims are sitting on a sofa and want to cuddle. First, the original TS2 checks if the relations are high enough to do this, and if yes, DSS checks in addition, if the attraction is high enough to do this. These checkings will conflict with InTeen, since (as described in the reply to CatOfEvilGenius above) both InTeen and DSS use the same original functions, but modify them in different ways. It was this conflict that made me to program the teen pregnancy; otherwise I would have saved me this work But I couldn't offer teen woohoo without teen pregnancy. That wouldn't have matched the idea behind DSS.

Let Teens Live Alone With TeenStar PC
Let Teens Adopt A Baby/Toddler/Child
>>> Check my profile page for further hacks <<<
Not actually evil.
#6 Old 17th May 2008 at 6:27 AM
Thanks for answering my question, I await the modular version. No rush though, we're all busy and I wouldn't want this to become a chore for you rather than fun.

Please spay or neuter your pets. --- Cat Music Video! --- my meshes
Lab Assistant
#7 Old 17th May 2008 at 6:37 AM Last edited by SIMale : 17th May 2008 at 6:51 AM.
This is a great addition to my game.

I like the idea of babies being able to die, not that I'm morbid (I like realism), but will they become ghosts? Will part 3 have the option to not allow any ghosts. I play some hoods ultra realistic and have to delete ghosts manually. I also have a question of aliens, vampires, zombies, werewolves, plantsims and bigfoots, will they too be able to in some way be blocked from appearing with this?

SIMale the Simlish linguist. Simlish made easy: Version 1 & 2 and Version 3 & Comic (Now only available at IS)
Field Researcher
#8 Old 17th May 2008 at 7:33 AM
Tired, so I'm not sure how much sense I will make. I would be interested in some of these fuctions, but I share the game with my sister who may not. Is there a way to isolate them to specific neighborhoods?
Also, we generally pick spouses based on our own weird criteria rather than actual chemistry, but I like the idea of making things harder for the romance sims (though we only have a few) and protecting the family sims (there have been a couple of cases where sims "accidentally" flirted due to a player not knowing what she was doing.
The idea of stuff breaking and food in the fridge going bad is interesting. I don't much care for the baby dying part, but I am curious, if a baby dies does the social worker come for the rest of the kids?
The idea of teens marrying is interesting to me along with all that goes with it, though I do agree with CatOfEvilGenius that I would rather such a function be user directed, so as such things don't happen on accident. (Yes, I know that's that exactly what CatOfEvilGenuis said).
I will check back in, because I am interested, just not sure how much I am interested in yet.
Field Researcher
#9 Old 17th May 2008 at 9:41 AM
Is it compatible with Pescado hacks from MATY, like harderjobs, and romancemod?
Because they do almost exactly what you have described, like waiting for job opening, one Mayor in town, harder relationtips and so.
I really liked breaking and spoiling in part 3, I would love to test it separately.
Test Subject
#10 Old 17th May 2008 at 4:08 PM
It's super interesting! I really love the real way!
Field Researcher
#11 Old 17th May 2008 at 7:34 PM
This sounds really good and more realistic because I have always a hated how Sims can fall in love so quick,Thank you so much for sharing.
Field Researcher
#12 Old 17th May 2008 at 8:31 PM
This sounds like a massive project and I think it's fantastic, with one exception.

Teens not having a pregnant belly IS NOT realistic at all. This is the ONLY thing I can find so far that I don't like about your project. If it's just not possible to code in I understand, but it just isn't realistic.

I quite like the breaking of items in your part 3 & look forward to seeing that. It always bothered me that the dishwasher or trash compactor could break but the refrigerator & stove NEVER do. And I never understood why EAxis gave us lightening with thunderstorms but the power never goes out. It would be so much more real if that happened once in a while.

My not liking the pregnant teen, "no preggie belly" part is in no way to be taken as a put down about you or your work. It's meant to be constructive criticism and that's all.

Oh, what does "DSS" stand for?

Not having a sig IS my sig. Oh wait, this is a sig, isn't it? Nevermind...
Lab Assistant
#13 Old 18th May 2008 at 4:57 AM
This sounds really great! As soon as an InTeen compatible version comes out I'll be all over it
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 18th May 2008 at 5:10 AM
@CatOfEvilGenius: Though I didn't want to program on the weekend, I did a test yesterday and put in a configuration switch which lets you determine if you want teen-teen-woohoo, teen-adult relations and teen-elder relations. Each can be set individually, and with the few interactions I re-wrote, it seemed to work. Would that do for you?

@SIMale: I'm not sure about ghosts yet, but I'll most probably will not let babies, toddlers and children become ghosts. Would be too much for the parents About the other "special" NPCs: Some of them will appear more often, and I don't intend to block them or prevent them from appearing.

@Faerieimp: Since this is a global mod, it is not possible to restrict it to a certain neighborhood. But following CatOfEvilGenius' suggestion, I might put in a major switch that turns DSS on or off. Let me think about that, okay?

@BlackCat007: From last christmas on to April, I worked my way through CtfG's hacks and updated them. From February on, I started to design DSS. So I have not the faintest idea what other hacks are out there, except from what I read here and there. Since the majority of hacks I saw just make things easier, I don't have any hack in the game and cannot confirm whether DSS conflicts with a specific hack (except for InTeenimater, since CtfG asked me to keep his hacks InTeen-compatible). But I would almost bet that DSS conflicts with everything that modifies jobs, school, visitors, relations, sickness, death, crafting, owned shops etc., because DSS touches (or will touch) all of these functions. The published Alpha version already contains some job modifications: on promotions, a sims will get the new salary plus a 10% bonus, but no longer the new salary x3, and on quitting the job, any PTO will be paid out. To be on the safe side, I would say: Yes, DSS conflicts with everything else. That's why I planned it as a whole package of functions, not just one hack for one certain situation.

@Mimi52861: Teens not having the belly disturbs me a bit too, but this is exactly the part which brings me to stealing codes from others. Jase's Inteenimater is the only hack that offers this option (AFAIK), and I faintly remember to have read that he fought a hard battle to get it done. I don't want to copy his idea, not to speak of the coding itself, so I have to live with this. But I thought of making the teen fat on the last day of pregnancy. "DSS" stands for "Dark Side of Sims 2", which will show up later in part 3, when all the mean and sloppy sims populate a community lot and meet those nice and neat sims. The "constructive criticism" finally: I understood your post in exactly that way

@JeffreyC: There seems to be some misunderstanding. DSS will never be InTeen-compatible. As I wrote in the Download Details: "Though I programmed in a different way, I (naturally) had to modify the same resources that InTeenimater uses, and to separate DSS from InTeen got finally impossible." Or, in other words: DSS and InTeen will conflict most heavily.

Let Teens Live Alone With TeenStar PC
Let Teens Adopt A Baby/Toddler/Child
>>> Check my profile page for further hacks <<<
Field Researcher
#15 Old 18th May 2008 at 5:10 AM
This sounds very interesting. I won't download just yet, as I already have a teen pregnancy mod (no it's not the Inteen), but look forward to the separate versions. I too hate that sims fall in love too easily, and despite having lost a baby myself, the babies being able to die definitely adds that extra touch of realism and unpredictability to the game. In fact I have an idea; make infant death and miscarriage come under the same module. There are loads of people out there who want risky pregnancy in the game, but not all the other features that come with the inteen - which in itself is so big it can cause all manner of problems. To have the choice of a separate version would be awesome

Ooh, one big question though. How nicely (or not) would it play with ACR?

Please don't PM/IM me with requests
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#16 Old 18th May 2008 at 5:15 AM
Originally Posted by Sadie79
(...) Ooh, one big question though. How nicely (or not) would it play with ACR?

Sorry, but what is ACR? Never heard of that, as I have to admit.

Let Teens Live Alone With TeenStar PC
Let Teens Adopt A Baby/Toddler/Child
>>> Check my profile page for further hacks <<<
#17 Old 18th May 2008 at 6:13 AM
ACR -,19.0.html

The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision. - L. Lavner
Field Researcher
#18 Old 18th May 2008 at 7:23 AM
Interesting. Yeah, I enjoy ACR as well- I like not having to specifically prompt my coupled/ married Sims to be intimate. I like the idea behind Part 1, not so much Part 2, so I'll test as soon as they're separate as well.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#19 Old 18th May 2008 at 12:06 PM
I re-wrote the "Download Details" because I noticed terribly bad formulated phrases on my side which lead to misunderstandings about DSS. In short: There are no separate "modules", just three separate components in one single package, of which two are almost complete and wait for "mass testing". The only "modules" are the separate AddOn's for the several Expansion Packs.

My apologies for that and for all resulting confusions.

As for ACR: From what I read, DSS will conflict with ACR. Please re-read the "Download Details" to get a better idea of the whole package. I hope I expressed the basic idea behind DSS better this time: three interacting components, of which one component controls the romantic interactions via attraction value, the second component is responsible for teen romance interactions among teens and to adults and elders, and the third component will add the "Dark Side" to the game. As I hopefully explained better this time, these components cannot be separated due to the many possible combinations and the resulting amount of duplicate resources.

Let Teens Live Alone With TeenStar PC
Let Teens Adopt A Baby/Toddler/Child
>>> Check my profile page for further hacks <<<
Lab Assistant
#20 Old 18th May 2008 at 1:38 PM Last edited by SIMale : 18th May 2008 at 1:45 PM.
Is it possible not to block these other creatures, but to have it as an option for the player to block them through a menu of different settings?

SIMale the Simlish linguist. Simlish made easy: Version 1 & 2 and Version 3 & Comic (Now only available at IS)
Field Researcher
#21 Old 18th May 2008 at 2:23 PM Last edited by Mimi52861 : 18th May 2008 at 2:54 PM.
Thank you Vironin for responding to my post, and for re-writing the detailed description of this project. It is easier to understand now. I can only imagine the work you've put into this and the work you have yet to be done. I commend you for taking on such a challenge!

The entire thing interests me, but I'm most interested in the part 3, "Dark Side". While romance & relationships can always use tweaking for more realism, I really like your ideas on the darker, harder issues you've described.

As you've informed us of the many different kinds of hacks/mods that this project will conflict with, I'm holding off a bit in downloading & trying this out in my game. I have many such mods already & will have to weed through them & pull out/disable any that will conflict with this before I try it out. I think I'll wait until you have all 3 parts done & included, but I am going to try it out! Promise! :D

Not having a sig IS my sig. Oh wait, this is a sig, isn't it? Nevermind...
Test Subject
#22 Old 18th May 2008 at 4:21 PM
So far, everything is fine for me, and I have just one complaint:

Instead of making the energy bar continually decrease, can you make it so the children just stay in bed until dawn?

Other then that small annoyance, I'm loving it! ^o^ I started this with a whole new Gen. so far I'm midway through childhood and I will keep you updated if anything goes wrong.
Lab Assistant
18th May 2008 at 11:32 PM
This message has been deleted by HystericalParoxysm. Reason: Rude.
Field Researcher
18th May 2008 at 11:57 PM
This message has been deleted by HystericalParoxysm. Reason: Response to rude post. Been dealt with privately by moderators. :)
Test Subject
#23 Old 19th May 2008 at 2:24 AM
So I've downloaded your alpha test version and started playin with it a bit last night. Overall I like it but I have had a couple of problems and I'll try to explain as thoroughly as possible my exact situation. I started a new family in a new neighborhood with a husband and wife (made spouses before moving in) and a cat. I have all of the expansion packs. I have gotten the already spouse couple to 100/100 relationship-wise and they have one lightning bolt of chemistry and are both family aspirations. Now, the first problem is that I have no option of trying for baby in the bed though we've been doing a lot of woohooing. Now my question here is is there supposed to be an option, try for baby or do the sims just get pregnant sometimes when woohooing the regular way (more realistic)? Another problem is when I get into a car I have the option of trying for baby, however when they finish instead of staying in the car they dissappear and reappear out in the middle of the street in front of the house. I guess this would just be a glitch report more than a question. and the last one is similar, in the hot tub it seems that anytime I try to get them to interact they spawn immediately back outside the hot tub. just a few things, thanks in advance for the response, and it's an amazing program and a great idea behind it.
Test Subject
#24 Old 19th May 2008 at 4:52 PM
This seems like a great idea, and have decided to help you in your testing, but before I even got to start playing, I realised something and I'm not sure if this is to do with DSS or if it's to do with Content Manager. But I downloaded DSS and placed it in my downloads folder, I then attempted to go to Content Manager to disable all my Hacks (i.s INTeen), but Content Manager kept saying error, I had to take DSS out of my downloads, for Content Manager to work.

As I say I'm not sure if that's a DSS problem or it just prooves what you've highlighted in you thread saying DSS is not compatable with other hacks.

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