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Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 29th Oct 2015 at 4:26 AM Last edited by attuned : 22nd Nov 2015 at 1:55 AM.
Default This and That
It seems that some build techniques are favored by some people while others prefer a completely different technique. Here is your chance to discuss different techniques.

First up- do you prefer:

NRaas Debug Enabler (object menu>move): http://nraas.wikispaces.com/DebugEnabler
~OR~
Decorator's Best Friend by Virtual Artisan: http://virtualartisan.blogspot.com/...est-friend.html

They appear to do the same thing- move objects in space. They both do not require downloaders to have the mod. I find DBF a bit easier to use. Anyone who has used both, what are the pros and cons? Even if you only have experience with one, please list pros and cons.

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Mad Poster
#2 Old 29th Oct 2015 at 7:53 AM
I haven't used either of those before, but I usually try to use techniques that won't mess up the lot if the mod's removed, or if the lot moved elsewhere.
Scholar
#3 Old 29th Oct 2015 at 6:54 PM
I remember trying the DBF once. But I can't remember it so much.

I'm going to install it again, and compare the two.

One thing I really like about the Debug Enabler>Move is the precision.

I can move an item up or down in increments of 0.001.

Something that has been happening since I reinstalled my game, and patched up to 1.67...

Some items will darken if I move them down - curtains, cupboards, tables....

I'll test to see if the same thing happens with the builder's best friends, cuz if it doesn't - I may have to use that for those items.
Instructor
#4 Old 29th Oct 2015 at 9:15 PM Last edited by Crowkeeper : 29th Oct 2015 at 10:49 PM. Reason: crows cant write...much:P
I never heard about the DBF thing! it looks awesome! Seems like it is possible to replace "tipsy OMSP" with it. I will definitely try it.
I am using Debug Enabler very often so I will add the pros and cons here after I try the "DBF" thing

Edit:
DBFDebug enabler
time consuming and hard to locate objectsquick and easy to locate objects
Can move doors and windowsCant move door and windows
Can move flowers and treesCant move flowers or trees
Has many options to move in different directionsCan only move up or down
Has no other option then moving stuffHas way more options like sculpturify etc.


So I will keep using debug enabler to move objects up or down but I will keep DBF fot the options which are impossible with debug enabler

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Scholar
#5 Old 30th Oct 2015 at 3:22 PM
Now I remember why I only used DBF a couple of times before removing it from my mods folder.
As Crowkeeper pointed out, it's difficult to find the object you actually want to move.
But the work-around to that would be to plan carefully, and write down the object's numbers so you can keep track? A real pain, BUT I'm willing to do it.

The fact that the DBF can move plants is a really big deal for me. I've just tested it, and it works.

I tested the doors and windows, and sure enough it does move them, BUT they are no longer usable.

The fact that the DBF tilts objects is a big plus.

I think that I'd need both the DBF and the Debug Enabler.

The Debug Enabler doesn't tilt objects (well, that I know of, so far), and it cannot move trees and shrubs, etc.
But it can smudge objects to look scratched up. It can sculpturify, and bring meteors.
It can burn objects, or just scratch them up. It can make puddles and scorch the ground with lightening strikes.

I'm glad you asked about this. I tried the DBF once, but wasn't that impressed, because it was a real pain finding objects in that list.
But given what I've learned here today, and if it isn't required for anyone downloading my lots to also download the DBF, I will definitely be using it in the future.
Screenshots
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 1:25 AM
Wow Crowkeeper, thanks for making that chart. It is really useful.

tsyokawe I know what you mean about finding an object with DBF. I was recently using it in a shop where there were dozens of items, and it was a pain. However, if you know what you want moved and where the item will be located, I suppose you can do that bit first, before lots of added items make it harder to find.

I think there may be a work around for windows, but I need to look into it. A person downloading a lot definitely DOES NOT need DBF for objects to remain in position. However, like Debug Enabler, it a person moves the object, it falls to the floor. (Love the car in your screenshot.)

What does "sculpturify" do- makes an object into sculpture? What would you use that for?

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Scholar
#7 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 1:38 AM Last edited by tsyokawe : 31st Oct 2015 at 9:26 PM. Reason: trying to clarify the instructions for changeing wood grain
Quote:
Originally Posted by attuned

What does "sculpturify" do- makes an object into sculpture? What would you use that for?


It turns an object into wood, or stone, etc.

I've used it to change objects that can't be cast (like the buydebug WA relics).

a couple of examples from some earlier uploads:

this WA vase
this wooden bowl
these two stone relics (by the way, I moved that heart-shaped gem up onto that heart-shaped key using NRaas).

edited to add: there are only 3 kinds of wood and 3 kinds of stone. you can't actually CHOOSE them,
BUT using the "change material," option, you can finagle a bit to get the type of wood or stone you want.

For example. You get wood grain 1, but you want wood grain 2.

1. You go to "change material," and select something different than the material you're using (try bronze or something).
2. Then go back again to "change material," and re-select "wood." There's a 50:50 chance you'll get the wood grain you want.
3. If you still didn't get the one you wanted, go back and "change material" to some other kind of material again.
And then again, go back in and "change material" to "wood". It's never taken me more than 3 times.
Instructor
#8 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 1:45 AM Last edited by Crowkeeper : 31st Oct 2015 at 2:03 AM. Reason: Tsyo said it already:)
What Tsyo said and you might also want to know that in order to prevent objects that are turned to ice via sculpturify from melting your sim needs to create 25 ice sculptures.

I made a tiny "tutorial" about SIM sculpturifying on my tumblr so I will copy it here:
Stop your game when your sim is making any “sculpture worthy” pose. (It doesnt work with pose player poses)

Then click on your sim and select: Nraas - DebugEnabler - Option:sim (sometimes your sim will be listed as smartphone:D) - sculpurify

You can choose from six materials

other notes:
I found out that when you make a sculpture of a sim wearing CC stuff, the sculpture will stay the same even after removing that CC from you game!
When someone downloads a lot with such a sculptures they will appear as ice goblins. But when the player saves the game and load it again it will appear correctly.
Screenshots

Visit my Tumblr for more creations http://crowkeeperthesimmer.tumblr.com :)
Scholar
#9 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 2:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowkeeper
You might want to know that in order to prevent objects that are turned to ice via sculpturify from melting your sim needs to create 25 ice sculptures.


That is really great news. I think the ice sculpture are the most beautiful.

When I built the Landgraab National Gallery. I'd sculpturified a few buydebug remains urns into ice. They were gorgeous.
But after a few days of route testing and such, they melted. It's too late now to make ice urns for that again...but in the future, I know I will do it.

I'll just make sure I"ve got an experienced Sim on the lot.
Instructor
#10 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 2:11 AM Last edited by Crowkeeper : 31st Oct 2015 at 2:35 AM. Reason: adding a tiny tip:D
Quote:
That is really great news. I think the ice sculpture are the most beautiful.

I agree

I was wondering If you guys know about a tool that can replace this: http://mahamudosim3.blogspot.tw/201...e93497c1bae9140 (the OMSP RESIZER)

EDIT:
Quote:
Some items will darken if I move them down - curtains, cupboards, tables....

I just wanted to add that this "issue" can be useful sometimes. I moved a sculpturified ice decor down and it became dark but it changes color according to the lighting outside which is kind of interesting...I call it "ice clock" :D:D:D:D

Screenshots

Visit my Tumblr for more creations http://crowkeeperthesimmer.tumblr.com :)
Scholar
#11 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 2:13 AM
God, that would be wonderful.

I read that they can resize in Sims 4. Too bad they didn't think to patch Sims 3 to do the same.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 2:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowkeeper
I agree

I was wondering If you guys know about a tool that can replace this: http://mahamudosim3.blogspot.tw/201...e93497c1bae9140 (the OMSP RESIZER)


I love playing around with that thing.
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#13 Old 31st Oct 2015 at 2:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsyokawe

Oh, the kitchen from my favorite house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowkeeper
I made a tiny "tutorial" about SIM sculpturifying on my tumblr so I will copy it here:

Thank you! This is SO helpful. I love the black and white sculptures- beautiful.

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Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#14 Old 3rd Nov 2015 at 4:41 AM
Next Up: CFE
Why do you love it (or in tsyokawe's case, REALLY love it ) or why do you hate it?

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Mad Poster
#15 Old 3rd Nov 2015 at 7:17 AM
I did the little CFE tutorial two different times, but it never clicked with me. My building style has evolved from the sad beginning of giant barn-like boxes to more focus on color and proportion and that's probably as far as it's going to go. But maybe some day I'll have a CFE inspiration/revelation - I wouldn't mind if that happened.
Scholar
#16 Old 3rd Nov 2015 at 3:51 PM Last edited by tsyokawe : 3rd Nov 2015 at 4:26 PM.
I love CFE because it can offer so many different solutions.

We can use CFE to shape gables, to fake ramparts, to fake cornices, to fake raised lawns, to arc bridges (or to drape them)
to vault ceilings, and/or to put open beams in ceilings, to make crenulated castle roofs...
to raise roofs so that their eves don't hang down quite so far, or to fit hipped roofs on to cornices.

edited to add: I prefer to make my foundations with CFE, because that way I can replace walls with fencing if I want.
And it's less complicated with CFE (versus a foundation) when putting in a basement.

Now that you have taught me that DBF can move plants, this particular use won't be necessary anymore,
but CFE can be used to move a plant up. I once used CFE to move a fern so that it would appear to be
growing in a vase...a WA relic vase that I had sculpturified into stone.

There are just so many cool things that we can do with CFE. The different heights, angles, and arcs
can add interest to our lots, and in many cases make them unique.
Instructor
#17 Old 3rd Nov 2015 at 4:57 PM
CFE is hardIt requires to plan ahead.....and that is something I cant do :D

So I use CFE only for the absolutely basic stuff like making bridges and higher buildings etc...

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Mad Poster
#18 Old 3rd Nov 2015 at 6:40 PM
I tend to think of CFE as something to use as a last resort- it's certainly useful, but at the same time, it can make other aspects of building much more difficult, mess up other parts of a lot's aesthetics, and (for me, making lots that I upload for other people to use) can make a remodel almost impossible for someone who isn't as familiar with the nuances of CFE manipulation. It has its place, no question- just not on every lot!

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Scholar
#19 Old 3rd Nov 2015 at 7:37 PM Last edited by tsyokawe : 4th Nov 2015 at 5:01 PM.
I agree; I would never recommend the gratuitous use of CFE.

But it is still the only tool I know of for manipulating walls and floors to aid in the production of attractive lots.
(And with the exception of my foundations, I guess "last resort" would apply to several of my lots, because CFE
was the only way to effect the results I'd worked for).

When I use CFE (which has become routine, since I use it for foundations), I make sure to warn the downloader that I've used it, and where I've used it.

Late edit: I have finally comprehended the closing sentence in your post!
Zarathustra! I am one of those builders who uses CFE "on every lot!"
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#20 Old 5th Nov 2015 at 12:45 AM
I do not have lots of experience with CFE. I have seen builders do amazing things with it, especially with bridges and roofs. I know some will not download lots that use CFE, I guess because of the difficulty in remodeling. I think builders should build what they love, but if you are uploading the lot, some consideration should be given to the people downloading. However, I don't think you should change your build to please others.

I don't even understand how one would use CFE to move a fern so that it would appear to be growing in a vase(???), though it sounds intriguing. I also agree with Crowkeeper about the difficulty of planning ahead as a build evolves. I have seen floating floor tiles on some builds. Is that a result of CFE?

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Scholar
#21 Old 5th Nov 2015 at 1:09 AM
With a little patience, you can remove those ceiling tiles permanently. I really should go back and look at my earlier works...I probably have tiles on those.
If I find any, I'm just going to remove those uploads from my collection.

As you know, from the underside of those ceiling tiles, you can delete them using the sledge hammer.

To delete them permanently:

1. go around and delete all tiles.
2. make a share file of the building.
3. delete the original building.
4. now place your share file building on to the lot you just deleted the original building from.
5. look for ceiling tiles in your new lot. if there are any, delete THOSE tiles.
6. save THIS new building as a share file, and get rid of the earlier one.

This latest building should be empty of floating ceiling tiles. It is this new building that should be safe for upload.

I posted a quick tutorial on how to use CFE to "raise" something. It's in my journal.
I don't know how to find the exact url of a journal entry, so you're gonna have to scroll down to it.
It's titled, Another Use for CFE!

http://www.modthesims.info/member.php?u=7849226
Top Secret Researcher
Original Poster
#22 Old 5th Nov 2015 at 3:40 AM
Oh, they are ceiling tiles, not floor tiles? I guess that makes more sense. Thanks for the link to your journal. I thought I had read all your tutorials. [OT] How do you decide where to put a tutorial? I read one on the wiki about roofs that wasn't accurate. Should I try to correct it?

Are there any other cons to CFE?

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Scholar
#23 Old 5th Nov 2015 at 9:15 PM
I don't know about modding and CC tutorials, but we're supposed to post our build tutorials in the Create>Building forum.
After you have it posted, you contact the mods for that forum (their nicknames are found at the bottom of the page), and let them
know you want it put in the tutorial section.

Once they move it, it will show up in the Wiki.
Then, if you want, you can add a link to it on the wiki tutorial lists.

Authored tutorials...I'm not sure if it's appropriate to edit those, but the general wiki information is actually set up for editing. I say go for it.

I've thought of another con to CFE...but I'm not sure how to describe it. If you think of the entire lot as a space that has 5 levels (above ground) it helps, I guess.
I'm not positive, but I think when we manipulate levels..it might actually interfere with future stuff underneath. I've had issues with ladder placements...the game saying the ceiling was too low...
when there was no ceiling or when the ceiling was clearly 16 steps high.

I believe this might happen if I've been CFE-ing above that area...I haven't formally tested that, though.
I do remember a few months ago, leveling out an area to its "original" wall height...No, there were no walls there. But I placed walls, one on top of the other. And I used the level tool.
To put an open area back to its original make up...then I deleted the walls. I was able to mess with it after that.

If it ever comes up, I'll try to make a quick picture tutorial for you. The best rule of thumb is to try to use as little space as possible when messing with floor levels. Add only as many floor tiles as you need to fit a stair.

The only real cons for me in CFE are the slanting of walls, and the fact that the damned game cannot read a combined two-levels as one level.
Every other issue has work-arounds. I am so grateful that I learned CFE. I haven't even done all the things I want to do with it. I have projects taped up on my wall.
Lots I wasn't able to reproduce from photos (until I learned CFE). It is a wonderful sculptural tool.

I think most people who are downloading realize that they shouldn't mess with a CFE lot. But they also realize that without CFE that particular lot couldn't be made.
I figure they probably weigh their priorities, and download accordingly.

Without CFE, foundations would be limited to two levels - either one step or 4 steps high. But in real life, we see many, many houses with 3, or as many as 12 steps up to the porch and front door.
Without CFE, we couldn't make proper attics. But many, many houses still standing in the real world have attics.
Without CFE, we'd have to use CC to put in L-shaped or U-shaped stairs, but a majority of houses with stairs rely on those two types.
Without CFE, we wouldn't be able to produce vaulted or open-beamed ceilings, but they exist in reality.

I admit, most of the other stuff might be unnecessary...our arched and draped bridges, our floating structures or structures up on wheels,
our insanely wavy roofs and our fantasy structures might seem a bit much to some, but architects do produce those, and as builders, we can't help but want to copy them.
Mad Poster
#24 Old 5th Nov 2015 at 10:51 PM
Hey, I luvs me some CFE too! Of my personal favorite lots that I've made, ALL of them used it, some of them pretty extensively! (the domes on my Galileo Station lot wouldn't have worked any other way!) I agree with just about all of your points about it, but it does make for a more complicated lot, and in many cases that may be something that you want to avoid for one reason or another!

This has also made me kind of curious what the differences are with CFE between TS2 and TS3... I wonder if it's more integral to certain build-styles in one game over the other?

Welcome to the Dark Side...
We lied about having cookies.
Scholar
#25 Old 5th Nov 2015 at 11:35 PM
Yikes. I don't know. I've never played Sims 2. That's a good question. I'm curious about that now, too.

I bet @Fergus' Mind would know. He's built in both versions.
And like you and cutsocks, he's genius at it.

I hear that Origin is offering Sims2, but I have issues with Origin.
I'm going to keep looking in second-hand stores and pawn shops.
I'm sure I'll run into a game soon enough.

uh. um. I'm sorry that that last post sounds so preachy...as though I'm witnessing for CFE.
I just get so enthusiastic about using it. I really do luvs me some CFE.
 
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