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Test Subject
#51 Old 9th Jul 2008 at 6:58 AM
I don't think I've ran into that yet, or if I have I didn't even notice. However, I make lots of different families, and most times now when I'm making kids for a couple, I use the pacifier. I also have The Sims 2 Store Edition now, should get the sims based on my brother and my sister-in-law pregnant again, see if the kid turns out like their teen daughter.
Test Subject
#52 Old 17th Sep 2008 at 7:31 AM
Very interesting ... I didn't know any of that. Should be helpful!
Field Researcher
#53 Old 10th Dec 2008 at 9:02 PM
Default Did I forget to roll?
I have a lesbian couple who have had 3 daughters using the Tombstone of Life & Death's "simulate genetic merger with" option. Their first 2 daughters have a family resemblance, but are certainly not clones. Baby number 3 was born last night and is still an infant. I never rolled the pacifier in CAS for any of these children, but I did use the patient method of choosing the baby’s gender. Baby boy born, exit to neighborhood without saving, re-enter the house. Since there have been at least 3 baby boys born for each girl, would that have had the same effect as rolling the pacifier? Otherwise, I’m not sure why the first 2 girls, which were not born during the same play session are not clones.

EPs I have: All of them! OMG, Ultimate Collection!
Lab Assistant
#54 Old 10th Dec 2008 at 9:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melethana
I have a lesbian couple who have had 3 daughters using the Tombstone of Life & Death's "simulate genetic merger with" option. Their first 2 daughters have a family resemblance, but are certainly not clones. Baby number 3 was born last night and is still an infant. I never rolled the pacifier in CAS for any of these children, but I did use the patient method of choosing the baby’s gender. Baby boy born, exit to neighborhood without saving, re-enter the house. Since there have been at least 3 baby boys born for each girl, would that have had the same effect as rolling the pacifier? Otherwise, I’m not sure why the first 2 girls, which were not born during the same play session are not clones.


Yes, it would. Any method of reseeding the RNG works.
#55 Old 10th Dec 2008 at 9:28 PM
When you roll the pacifier, play a lot, and then exit that same lot to play another, will the game keep the same pacifier effect or will I have to roll it again?
Scholar
#56 Old 10th Dec 2008 at 9:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by littbrat5
When you roll the pacifier, play a lot, and then exit that same lot to play another, will the game keep the same pacifier effect or will I have to roll it again?


So long as you don't quit the game between loading lots, you're fine.
Field Researcher
#57 Old 10th Dec 2008 at 10:01 PM
AdmiralAeris - Thanks! I was very worried that baby number 3 was going to be a clone. No worries now!

EPs I have: All of them! OMG, Ultimate Collection!
Field Researcher
#58 Old 11th Jan 2009 at 6:14 AM
Just did a full test and well, here is the result.

Test performed with Free Time (latest update installed).

Had a female adult have 3 pregnancies in a row, using InTeen to make her pregnant from the the paperboy (he happened to be the first NPC around) and forced an immediate delivery. Named them Baby A, Baby B and Baby C. Since the last pregnancy happened to result into a set, the fourth baby was named, surprisingly, Baby D. I saved and exited from the game completely in between each pregnancy, even though they all occurred within one sim hour.

Result proves what was already known, that is, nothing was ever fixed. Baby A, B and C all had the exact same personality. Baby D had a completely different personality, since the genetic RNG was already rolled for Baby C at the time. Visually they all looked the same, even D. Even hair cuts were the same.
Be like the 22nd elephant with heated value in space- Bark!
retired moderator
#59 Old 11th Jan 2009 at 4:06 PM
Yes, that is what I've found (despite there being contrary information from several game coders). The discussion starts on this page:
http://forums.sims2community.com/sh...&page=155&pp=25

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Field Researcher
#60 Old 11th Jan 2009 at 8:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsample
Yes, that is what I've found (despite there being contrary information from several game coders). The discussion starts on this page:
http://forums.sims2community.com/sh...&page=155&pp=25


Oh I didn't know of a recent test! Well because of those contradictory information I wanted to perform my own test and sort it out for good. Now it's a done thing
Be like the 22nd elephant with heated value in space- Bark!
retired moderator
#61 Old 11th Jan 2009 at 9:00 PM
I always assumed the firstborn effect didn't affect the faces as I'd read on so many forums that it affected only personality. However it seems that all of these forums were possibly getting the information from the same, incorrect source!

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Lab Assistant
#62 Old 12th Jan 2009 at 2:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsample
I always assumed the firstborn effect didn't affect the faces as I'd read on so many forums that it affected only personality. However it seems that all of these forums were possibly getting the information from the same, incorrect source!


Not only that, it even jumps neighborhoods with respect to pre-mades! (I once intended to exploit both of these facts in a contest entry once, using a sim born to the same two parents in another neighborhood to represent my entry sim as a child.)
Site Helper
#63 Old 13th Jan 2009 at 5:07 PM
Before I knew about it, I had one family with 4 boys and one girl. Two of the boys even consistently grew up into the same outfits! It is impossible to tell them apart.

(And don't mess with those kids: They are hyper-active, outgoing neat freaks with a sociopathic bent. Six cow mascots and a couple of townies have found out about the secret society's cowplant by getting one of them angry.)

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retired moderator
#64 Old 23rd Jan 2009 at 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralAeris
Not only that, it even jumps neighborhoods with respect to pre-mades!

Yes, it is the game 'randomizer' that is affected and that is common to all hoods. It seems that the game uses the same randomizer for all aspects of the game, and that this randomizer is not truly random. Hence the repetition of personality and appearance.

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Mad Poster
#65 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 7:08 PM
*No necromancy meant*

According to the wiki about the the first born syndrome, rolling the pacifier will only need to be done once during a playing session and all babies born (even those in the same household that are born after each other) will not look the same, what about the sim randomizer from the batbox?
Mad Poster
#66 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 7:16 PM
The sim randomizer on the batbox is the same thing as rolling the pacifier.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
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Site Helper
#67 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 8:15 PM
If you always roll the pacifier the same number of times, then you will still have the first-born syndrome. The idea is to roll it a random number of times at the beginning of a game session.

EA doesn't believe in random numbers, because they make testing more difficult.
Test Subject
#68 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 8:31 PM
...I wonder with the new combined packs its fixed? Or maybe I just forgot that I did something? I got all my Sims 2 games after Sims 3 came out, so I got the Double Deluxe version, as well as the Uni, OFB, and Pets packs that were combined with stuff packs. I now have all expansions and stuff packs excepted for the Glamour one and Holiday Stuff.

I played two of my Sims (who were CAS created), and they had twins. Quite a few quit and plays later, the same couple had a boy - I can't really speak to whether his face was similar, since I haven't taken the time to compare, but I do know his personality WAS different. (He was much meaner than his siblings.) I wonder if this means it has been fixed, or maybe I just did something different and have forgotten.
Site Helper
#69 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 9:19 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 2nd Jul 2012 at 9:32 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Duhamel
Just did a full test and well, here is the result.

Result proves what was already known, that is, nothing was ever fixed. Baby A, B and C all had the exact same personality. Baby D had a completely different personality, since the genetic RNG was already rolled for Baby C at the time. Visually they all looked the same, even D. Even hair cuts were the same.
Note that 4 sims is not a significant sample. Especially given that D had the same appearance as the other three, which implies that the couple tend to produce identical looking children, regardless of randomization.

I cannot consider this a "full" test. Just one sample point.

Create several hundred children without the randomizer and several hundred more with the randomizer. At that point, we might be able to say something about whether appearance is affected by the randomizer. If every single child produced without the randomizer has an identical appearance, and some number of children produced with the randomizer have different appearances, then you've actually shown something interesting.

Of course, the minute that you have a non-randomized sim with a different appearance you can stop, since you've proven that appearance is not affected by the randomizer.

It might be useful for this experiment to install all dominant or all recessive genes, to increase the likelihood of alternative genetics:
http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=434085

At the very least, the parents should both have dominant genes, or both have recessive genes, to decrease the dominant / recessive effect.

It probably also makes sense to have the two parents have very different personalities.
Field Researcher
#70 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peni Griffin
The sim randomizer on the batbox is the same thing as rolling the pacifier.


I am only slowly getting into the batbox and the other handy things that I downloaded with the insimenator (or was it MATY's hacks? No idea). How exactly do I use the sim randomizer?
Mad Poster
#71 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 10:42 PM
I find it best to use it when I'm through with one lot and about to go to another, because using this feature of the batbox puts you at the neighborhood view, which is where you're about to go anyway.

So, go through whatever lot-leaving routine you have, SAVE, then click the Re-randomize the Sim Generator button on the batbox. The lot will freeze momentarily, then boot you to the neighborhood screen.
Field Researcher
#72 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 10:58 PM
Cool, I didn't know that.

Thank you Darby, you're a great tutor! :D
Mad Poster
#73 Old 2nd Jul 2012 at 11:07 PM
Thank you, and you're welcome.
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retired moderator
#74 Old 3rd Jul 2012 at 12:13 AM
When I started my legacy I had no idea of the first born effect and saved and exited the game before each of the three births. I had a girl, a boy and another boy to that family all with first born effect. I didn't realize it until the youngest was a child though, but all three have the same face, same personality points, same star sign and even the same hobby. Two of them even ended up with the same LTW.

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Be like the 22nd elephant with heated value in space- Bark!
retired moderator
#75 Old 3rd Jul 2012 at 1:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
Create several hundred children without the randomizer and several hundred more with the randomizer. At that point, we might be able to say something about whether appearance is affected by the randomizer.

My daughter and I managed to do around 70 unrandomized when we were testing this several years ago, and all appeared identical.

We used two computers with the same gameversion, and spent a whole day reloading the game over and over! I still have the images somewhere- we took pictures of each of the offspring's faces, so that we could compare them.

So that's why I concluded that the sim appearance is governed by the randomizer (although Pes maintains that this is just because there are so few permutations for the offspring of any two sims, so it's likely you'll think there is a 'firstborn' effect).

@julmoo- the batbox sim randomizer rolls the pacifier a random number of times, so that you will have a true random starting point.

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