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#2301 Old 22nd Dec 2009 at 7:24 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 22nd Dec 2009 at 8:41 PM.
I was just looking at the help forum and realized that we may not have done the research on flooded basements:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=383028

What I currently know:
- The neighborhood package has one value for the standard water elevation in the neighborhood; Water Table Elevation in NHTG. This value is always 312.5.
http://www.simswiki.info/wiki.php?title=NHTG

- The neighborhood package also has an entire array which may hold water elevations, relative to 0 (probably associated with the Water Table Elevation above). I have never seen any value in this array, other than 0.

Things we want to research:
- Does the game actually use the Water Table Elevation value to determine the level of water in the neighborhood? [Update: Yes, this value is used.]

- Does the game actually use the water elevation array in the neighborhood view? If so, the LotAdjuster already has the appropriate logic to find the neighborhood elevations associated with a lot, so we might be able to lower the water level for lots with basements. [Update: No, changing the values in this array doesn't obviously affect the water level in the neighborhood.]

- Does the game use the water elevation array in the lot view? [Update: Yes, but not in the way that I expected. Instead, some lots were changed from a green terrain to a sand (beach) terrain, where I was expecting some lots to be underwater. Very odd.]

[Update:]
One further piece of information which is important: when I change the array values then play the game, the values are reset to 0. So, this looks like it's not likely to be a solution.
#2302 Old 22nd Dec 2009 at 9:11 PM
Mootilda, have you tested to see if that information is consistant across game versions?

...and a reminder to myself to place a built lot in the lot bin and test.

Speaking of which, anyone have any recomendations about how to go about trying that?

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Alchemist
#2303 Old 23rd Dec 2009 at 1:24 AM
Don't you just install it? Or did you mean to place it into the lot Catalogue? If so, no idea.
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#2304 Old 23rd Dec 2009 at 3:44 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 23rd Dec 2009 at 5:55 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralOperationsDirector
Mootilda, have you tested to see if that information is consistant across game versions?
No. Good idea, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralOperationsDirector
Speaking of which, anyone have any recomendations about how to go about trying that?
First couples of tests, I just used SimPE to edit the NHTG record, using the "c2DArray" string to guide me to the locations of the various arrays. The next couple of tests, I created a small test program which would change every single value in the unknown byte array at the end of the record (to an arbitrary value).

However, the fact that those values aren't kept between saves means that it's really a useless array. The Water Table Elevation could be useful, though, and it's very easy to change, since it's just one single floating point value.

At this point, I'm completely stumped on this problem. We know that there are two separate water levels on a lot:

One water level has variable elevations and is stored in a 2D Array within the lot package. This one is fairly easy to manipulate and I'm planning to add manipulation of the water levels to the TS3GridAduster.

The other is the neighborhood water elevation and it looks like there may be just one elevation for the entire neighborhood. This is the value which causes the flooded basements at lower elevations.
#2305 Old 23rd Dec 2009 at 7:03 PM
"Speaking of which, anyone have any recomendations about how to go about trying that?"
What I was refering to was how to place a built lot into the empty-lots bin.

I`m assuming that the easiest way to try is to find a built lot in the built-lot bin, copy it into the empty-lot bin, and rename it to replace one of the templates [preferably of the SAME SIZE, just in case, although it would also be interesting to see what happens if one uses a template of the wrong size, by renaming the templates so that the program tries to access the wrong file].

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Alchemist
#2306 Old 23rd Dec 2009 at 11:28 PM
...You know, it might be possible to make default replacements for the lot templates in the same way as for other things in the game. Then I could replace those enormous lot sizes with minis...I haven't thought about this in terms of default replacements before. Adding new lot templates to the catalogue sounds quite different from replacing existing ones.
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#2307 Old 24th Dec 2009 at 12:04 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 24th Dec 2009 at 12:36 AM.
I must have missed something. When did we start talking about replacing or creating empty-lot templates? I don't really know of any way to do this. I've tried to document what I do know in this thread. Please let us know how it goes.
#2308 Old 24th Dec 2009 at 5:03 PM
Months ago I tried to place a template into the lot bin, and when I reported the results, I also wondered what would happen the other way around. I haven`t gotten around to doing it yet, and was trying to remind myself to do so.

aelflaed, personally, I *want* large lots, as my Sims tend to accumulate too much stuff to place on smaller lots.

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#2309 Old 24th Dec 2009 at 6:52 PM
Ah... a quote would have helped in this instance. I'm eager to hear your experiences with this; it would be wonderful to be able to customize our empty lot templates to match our play styles.
#2310 Old 24th Dec 2009 at 7:06 PM
Before I try that, though, I`m thinking of trying to mis-name a lot template and see what happens. Perhaps by exchanging the names of two of them. Might get the wrong size, or might get no effect.

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Alchemist
#2311 Old 24th Dec 2009 at 8:23 PM
Yes, it was harking back to an old discussion.

I don't mind if you like the big lots, GeneralOperationsDirector, but I find them annoying and unneccesary. I tend to use 1x1s a lot, although I admit they can be a little cramped for a family of six! And my island hood isn't using minilots so much, as nearly everything is single-storey and spread out with verandahs. Can't do that on tiny plots.

Anyway, it being Christmas Day, my family will be wanting prezzies anytime now, so I'll catch up with this idea in a day or two. Have a wonderful Christmas, everyone!
#2312 Old 24th Dec 2009 at 8:31 PM
It was, indeed.

I don't mind if you like the little lots, aelflaed, but I find them annoying and unneccesary. I tend to use 6x6s a lot, although I admit they can be a little empty for a family of one!

Anyway, it being Christmas Eve, my family will be wanting prezzies anytime now, so I'll catch up with this idea in a day or two. Have a wonderful Christmas, everyone!

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Alchemist
#2313 Old 25th Dec 2009 at 11:55 PM


Happy Boxing Day!
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#2314 Old 26th Dec 2009 at 5:37 PM
What? You're not out shopping?
Alchemist
#2315 Old 26th Dec 2009 at 8:01 PM
Apparently Boxing Day isn't happening until Monday here. Go figure.

Anyway, I hate shopping. It's amazing how long you can go without groceries, let alone fripperies like new clothes.
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#2316 Old 5th Jan 2010 at 9:33 PM
Default Translation of "Tutorial"
Can anyone help me? If you have a non-English version of the game, is the Tutorial neighborhood named "Tutorial" or something else? Thanks!

Explanation:
The LotAdjuster currently excludes all hoods which have prefixes which are not 4 characters long. I assume that this code was added to remove the Tutorial neighborhood from consideration. However, I've been asked to allow non-standard prefix names, so I'm trying to determine whether there is some other way to exclude the Tutorial hood.
Alchemist
#2317 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 2:43 AM
There's a tutorial neighbourhood? I thought you just opened Pleasantview and started playing...

Sorry, mine is an English install.
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#2318 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 3:58 AM
Run the game. When you are given the option to choose a neighborhood, there is a choice to "Learn to Play" on the lower left corner of that screen. You start with Tutorial Joe Sim and then add Tutorial Jane Sim.

On your disk, one of the default neighborhoods is named "Tutorial". That's the one that is used for "Learn to Play". I seem to remember that someone made that hood available for normal play as well... perhaps at MATY?
Alchemist
#2319 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 5:22 AM Last edited by aelflaed : 6th Jan 2010 at 5:38 AM.
Very likely. I don't think I've ever used it.

I just came up with another question...

What I currently want to do is move a lot away from the road, and place it on a hill nearby. I know how to move it, but it ends up digging out the hill. I thought that might be okay, just putting the lot into a depression instead of on the rise. In hood view it looked like that would be acceptable. However, it doesn't look good inside the lot.

My last attempt used 'update hood terrain' - hoping to give my lot the shape of the hill. I kept the hood edges and unticked 'Keep lot elevation'.

In the first picture, the hill is at left and the lot is at the bottom of the slope, on the right.

The second picture shows the lot I just moved - put back in its original position, but still with the shape of the hill around it. It doesn't look like that from hood view.

Is there a way to put the lot on the hill?
Screenshots
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#2320 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 6:16 AM
The LotAdjuster doesn't change the existing terrain on a lot; the only option is to change the edges.

You could try this:
- Expand the lot backwards from the road, which will pick up the hood terrain for the expanded area.
- Shrink at the front; the LA will probably try to move the lot forwards towards the road, so you'll want to move backwards to compensate.
- Repeat as required.
- Once you have the lot with the correct terrain in the correct location, build.
Alchemist
#2321 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 9:22 AM Last edited by aelflaed : 6th Jan 2010 at 10:34 AM.
You mean to move the lot to the hill site, then do the repeated shanges outlined? Will that raise the lot?

Another possiblility I've just thought of, might be to alter the terrain at the bottom of the hill so it is the same height as the hilltop, and then move the lot sideways. But that would be likely to mess up my hood rather. Your way would be better.

Perhaps I need to start with a smaller lot than I want, and expand to match the terrain as you suggest. And don't worry, I'm certainly not doing much building until I get the terrain happening!

Come to think of it, maybe the first attempt did work better than I thought - I was confused by the sunken effect, but perhaps I could have just flattened the centre of the lot to match the edges at that point, removed the road and been done. Hmm. I'll have a couple more goes and see what happens. Thanks!

Update:
Partial success. For some reason, I've reached what should be the final version, except that objects and fences are almost impossible to place, and the lot imposter looks very wrong, with mountainsides where they are not, within the lot. The placment trouble is probably related to the weird shape of the lot imposter. As there is no road, I can't snap it back into the hood to regenerate (without adding the road again).

Could be just too many alterations piling up.

I'll probably delete this and try afresh, but in case you want it as a test case, I'll leave it alone for tonight. I have versioned backups! (At least, I ticked the box...I suppose I can locate them if wanted.)

It occurs to me - belatedly - that I should have put this in the LA thread. Oh well.
Screenshots
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retired moderator
#2322 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 2:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
Can anyone help me? If you have a non-English version of the game, is the Tutorial neighborhood named "Tutorial" or something else? Thanks!
My TS2 was English, so I can't help you directly. But doesn't the game have some sort of string resources with all the localised names? I don't recall anymore how the Windows TS2 is put together, but TS3 has a bunch of files with localised strings for the UI, alerts, error messages etc – and I've also seen all of the names for game files and directories in there. Sorry if this is unhelpful or too obvious =).

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
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#2323 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 4:30 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 6th Jan 2010 at 9:18 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticbox
My TS2 was English, so I can't help you directly. But doesn't the game have some sort of string resources with all the localised names? I don't recall anymore how the Windows TS2 is put together, but TS3 has a bunch of files with localised strings for the UI, alerts, error messages etc – and I've also seen all of the names for game files and directories in there. Sorry if this is unhelpful or too obvious =).
Not a bad idea... I'll look into it if no one can answer my question.

[Update:] aelflaed, you may want to skip this post and the next one... my best solution is two posts down. I'm leaving this post and the next to remind me of the issues. [End Update]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
You mean to move the lot to the hill site, then do the repeated shanges outlined? Will that raise the lot?
No, I mean move the lot by repeatedly expanding at the rear and shrinking at the front until the lot is positioned where you want it. However, it sounds like you may actually need to move it sideways, rather than backwards... the same idea applies: expand on one side and shrink on the other until the lot is where you want it.

There are a couple of caveats:
- The only way to get the LA to terraform your lot is to expand it. It will not adjust the existing grid on your lot.
- None of the original lot will remain intact, so you won't be able to build until you get the lot into place.
- Be sure to remove the roads first, so that the LA doesn't try to flatten areas for the roads during the process.
- The LA will attempt to move your lot back to the road when you shrink at the front. So, you must compensate by moving the lot backwards by the same amount that you shrink at the front. This must be done at the same time as the shrinking, so that the LA will not deform your hood.
- Since the relative zero point inside the lot will not change, you shouldn't change the lot elevation. I'm not sure how to explain this in a non-techy manner, so you'll just have to trust me on this one.

Please note that I've never tried this and I'm not quite sure how to achieve your objective, but this is my best guess. I may try this myself and one of us should write up a tutorial when we're done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Another possiblility I've just thought of, might be to alter the terrain at the bottom of the hill so it is the same height as the hilltop, and then move the lot sideways. But that would be likely to mess up my hood rather. Your way would be better.
You could always try this, then restore the original hood terrain using HoodReplace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Perhaps I need to start with a smaller lot than I want, and expand to match the terrain as you suggest. And don't worry, I'm certainly not doing much building until I get the terrain happening!
Yes, I'd start with a 1x1 lot and expand and shrink until I had it in place, then expand to the correct size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
Update:
Partial success. For some reason, I've reached what should be the final version, except that objects and fences are almost impossible to place, and the lot imposter looks very wrong, with mountainsides where they are not, within the lot. The placment trouble is probably related to the weird shape of the lot imposter. As there is no road, I can't snap it back into the hood to regenerate (without adding the road again).
I'd have to see this before I could give you any advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
It occurs to me - belatedly - that I should have put this in the LA thread. Oh well.
Then again, it seems like you're doing research on how to accomplish this. The LA just happens to be one of the tools that you're using to try to accomplish the task. Until we actually figure it out, this seems like a fine place to discuss things.
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#2324 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 5:51 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 6th Jan 2010 at 9:18 PM.
Default Off-Road Lot with Hood Terrain (first attempt)
[Update:] You may want to skip this post... my best solution is in the next post. [End Update]

OK, I tried the expand / shrink method and it basically works, with one main issue (described later)

1) Start with a 1x1 lot near your final location.
2A) Remove the roads.
2B) Expand the lot in the direction of the final location.
3) Run the game to check how it's going.
4) Shrink on the opposite side and move backwards at the same time.
5) Run the game to check how it's going. We've moved closer to our goal and terraformed the lot appropriately.
6) Repeat 2B - 5 until the lot is positioned correctly.

There's really one problem left. At this point, my lot is difficult to edit, because of the hill. That's because the zero-point of the lot is much lower than any other point on the lot... the zero-point is still at the elevation of the road. Think of it this way: the lot is on top of the hill, but the camera wants to focus at the elevation of the road.

If your hill isn't too high, this shouldn't be a problem. However, I think that I might be able to resolve the problem by using a combination of the GridAdjuster (to make relative changes to the grid elevations on the lot) plus a change to the lot elevation. Let me fool around with this a bit more.

The main issue with this technique is that you need to know how much to adjust the grid and then adjust the lot elevation to compensate. It might make sense to write a new program which will figure out how much to adjust the lot and make the appropriate adjustments to the hood and lot packages.

A new program? What fun!

Anyway, try this and then let me know if you have a problem editing the lot. Difficulty editing should completely depend upon the elevation difference between the original and final lot locations.

[Update:]
Used the GridAdjuster to adjust every point on the grid by -27.0000 and used SimPE to adjust the lot elevation by +27.0000. As expected, this made it a lot easier for me to edit my lot.

Notes for myself:
- The water level must also be adjusted by -27.0000.
- The lot imposter should be removed, since the lot appears to be flying in the air, until a build change is made on the lot.

[Another Update:]
I had another thought about how to accomplish this with the LotAdjuster, allowing the lot elevation to float.

Briefly:
- Start with a 1x1 roadless lot.
- Move the lot close to the final location, allowing the LA to reset the lot elevation. Don't edit the lot in-game, since that will corrupt the hood terrain.
- Expand the lot towards the final location. Again, don't edit the lot in-game.
- Shrink away the original lot. This should leave the newly expanded area of the lot in the correct location in the hood, with a reasonable relative elevation.

I'm off to try this technique now.
Screenshots
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#2325 Old 6th Jan 2010 at 9:12 PM
Default Off-Road Lot with Hood Terrain (second attempt - simpler and better)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
- Start with a 1x1 roadless lot.
- Move the lot close to the final location, allowing the LA to reset the lot elevation. Don't edit the lot in-game, since that will corrupt the hood terrain.
- Expand the lot towards the final location. Again, don't edit the lot in-game.
- Shrink away the original lot. This should leave the newly expanded area of the lot in the correct location in the hood, with a reasonable relative elevation.
Tried this new technique and it worked really well. Especially with the new LotAdjuster (version 3.0), which allows shrinking on one side and expanding on the other. Note that I was able to do all of the following in one session of the LA:
- Remove the existing road.
- Move the lot to its new location.
- Expand to get the correct hood terrain.
- Shrink to remove the existing lot terrain, which is too flat.
- Resize the lot to the size that I actually want.
- Change the lot elevation to match the new location, which makes it easier to edit the lot.

Warning: you can only shrink by the original size of the lot (or less). If you try to shrink by more, the LA may crash. I'll have to fix this.
Screenshots
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