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Lab Assistant
#3101 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I replied to point out to him that in TS1 and TS2 there were premade poor sims living in trailers, and many of us enjoyed playing them.


That was two separate thoughts strung together in a short tweet. The Sims 4 has some trailer park homes in it as well, but not anywhere I'd truly consider "poor". Beyond that though what I'd like to see in the game and what it hasn't had is Sims who recognize things like being rich or being poor in meaningful ways. I'd personally be really interested in exploring something in-game where if you have 500 simoleons to your name compared to 5,000,000 then that Sim acts differently and has different priorities in life. Maybe a poor Sim values family more and finds happiness in the small things while the rich Sim is always chasing the next big purchase to fill a void. How do their traits play into it? How does a Sim feel about being broke? What if the game had genuine homelessness and you weren't forced to own a lot? I wish money was more meaningful past the first few weeks of gameplay. I'd find it really interesting if I could decide the level of wealth of my family in CAS and then depending on your selection the way you started the game would vary in things like the neighborhood you live in, the people who would associate with you, the job opportunities available, etc.

One small thing I pushed for in Sims 4 that's different than Sims 3 is you can no longer just go bulldoze a lot next to a mansion and expect to be able to afford it with your new family. Property value has a more significant impact now.

Anyway, many people appreciate the lighthearted nature of The Sims, but personally I often find myself wanting a life simulation that explores some of the darker themes of life as well. Maybe those nasty parts of life could also get subverted in humorous ways as The Sims is known to do. I feel like there's a ton of untapped material to explore there. As is though, Sims are pretty happy-go-lucky no matter what slice of suburbia they exist in.

Sims Producer Graham Nardone - Follow me on Twitter @SimGuruGraham
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Forum Resident
#3102 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:05 AM
Hello

Did I miss any bad news today?

Edit: interesting thoughts, Graham. I'd love for Sims to be aware of their financial status.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3103 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
I'd personally be really interested in exploring something in-game where if you have 500 simoleons to your name compared to 5,000,000 then that Sim acts differently and has different priorities in life.


Oh Graham, wouldn't it be lovely to expand the autonomy system so a Sim who is poor (and set to full autonomy), depending on personality (lazy sim may not bother) to pick up the wretched paper and get themselves a job? Or for that matter, a Sim who has a "whim" to eat mac&cheese actually choose the make mac&cheese interaction from the fridge instead of spag bol? But yeah for 14 years Sims have had no clue about their socio-economic needs

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Field Researcher
#3104 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
Anyway, many people appreciate the lighthearted nature of The Sims, but personally I often find myself wanting a life simulation that explores some of the darker themes of life as well. Maybe those nasty parts of life could also get subverted in humorous ways as The Sims is known to do. I feel like there's a ton of untapped material to explore there. As is though, Sims are pretty happy-go-lucky no matter what slice of suburbia they exist in.


Graham, you may not be able to answer this, but are the 'darker' kinds of things you're discussing elements that get seriously discussed among the Sims team? Or does that veer too far from the goals that are in mind for building the game?

I ask because it seems there are a lot of themes that could expand the game in interesting ways, and that could attract more of an audience. I'm not expecting Sims to suddenly be able to murder other Sims, but I think a lot of people are getting the idea that the game is being geared towards a happy-sunshine-unicorn audience only.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3105 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
What if the game had genuine homelessness and you weren't forced to own a lot?


From what I've heard you'd not actually be able to implement this in TS4 (or any of the previous games) without a deep code change because in all of them you are forced to open a lot in order to start Live mode. And that is how the active household is selected in the first place.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#3106 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:19 AM
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.

Sims Producer Graham Nardone - Follow me on Twitter @SimGuruGraham
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#3107 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


This is good news! Just one caveat - in TS3, being a famous rock star hardly got you much richer than just working in the bistro! I wasn't able to buy my rock star a much better home than my chef! So I hope there is more difference between lower and higher income in TS4 to cover all this

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#3108 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:26 AM
Thanks for your posts, Graham. Unpaid bills resulting in cut-off power and water supply sounds brilliant, honestly. And I agree with Inge, real-life differences between wages should be present in the game as well.

Sorry for the old quote, but I still need to vent about this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original_Sim
Grant can't tell the difference between ages and life stages. <snip>

He's working on a Sims game and talking to Sims fans about it - and he doesn't think that maybe those fans want him to use Sims terminology?
Lab Assistant
#3109 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


Our water being shut off wouldn't be an issue if we had pools, we could just get water from them.

I'M SORRY I HAD TO

On a serious note, I'm loving a lot of the little details. I will say, once you guys get the 'generations' EP and the 'pools' EP out, and bundle them with the sims 4 like the ambitions bundle, I might be interested in this game.

Just, good work on the idea of electricity and water being shut off. That's something that I really do like and find intriguing.
Alchemist
#3110 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:29 AM
@Graham no poor sims? So there will be no Brandi Broke? She was always one of my favorites.

Are we even going to get any gameplay video? Before the launch of The Sims 3 we had a lot of gameplay videos but The Sims 4 has none.
And the forbidden question: why was toddlers not a priority in the game?
Field Researcher
#3111 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


I really like the sound of that. I still have reservations about TS4, but I hope there's more stuff like this in the game (and also to be included in future EPs).
Field Researcher
#3112 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:31 AM
So, Will we see some non-staged gameplay from TS4 soon? @SimGuruGraham
Instructor
#3113 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAsher
Our water being shut off wouldn't be an issue if we had pools, we could just get water from them.

Ba dum tss!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimsTias
So, Will we see some non-staged gameplay from TS4 soon?

Part of me wonders they're holding off on doing that, because if they did, people would see through the game for what it really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by intransitmatt
"Sims traditionally shies away from the difficulties of life"?!
Um no, it was just swept under the rug with TS3 where your sims would never have fears and could get rich by selling rocks and flowers.
I swear, the more the SimGurus spew shit out of their mouths on twitter, the more I want to cancel my preorder.

Well said. Difficulties and conflict are the spices of life. Might as well just have a machine that the sim straps themselves into and increases all their wants and needs. Yay, no difficulties!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Certainly not TS1, which was the darkest of all, even the humor was kind of dark (eg clown, mark shark)

I loved the dark and depressing atmosphere of TS1. Especially the music that played if a sim died or skipped work. Now, everything is happy "bubble cum" and roses and bunny rabbits. Blech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
I think it's probably genuine lack of knowledge about the essence of past games. You have to immerse in it to understand - reading a potted theorised history is probably all most of them get time to do.

Pretty much from the looks if it.
Lab Assistant
#3114 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.



Aaargh!! If only my toddlers were in the game, I'd buy it in a flat second!!
Lab Assistant
#3115 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedw
Graham, you may not be able to answer this, but are the 'darker' kinds of things you're discussing elements that get seriously discussed among the Sims team?


Not typically. On occasion I've seen designs or choices that push the current boundaries but they usually get reeled back in. It's a tough situation... you've got an extremely popular and established franchise that you need to protect, and with that comes "rules" that have been established over the years about what you can and can't do. Some of those rules were established by people who haven't been at EA for years, but it almost becomes tradition passing them down to new people.

Here's one of the less serious examples... the plumbob isn't supposed to exist in the Sim's world. A Sim should have no knowledge of it. That rule has been broken many times in the name of self-referential humor, but it's definitely a rule that still comes up in discussions.

(really stopping now - this keyboard is miserable to type on atm with the broken key)

Sims Producer Graham Nardone - Follow me on Twitter @SimGuruGraham
One Minute Ninja'd
#3116 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:42 AM Last edited by eskie227 : 29th Jun 2014 at 10:53 AM. Reason: avoid a quadruple post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
This is good news! Just one caveat - in TS3, being a famous rock star hardly got you much richer than just working in the bistro! I wasn't able to buy my rock star a much better home than my chef! So I hope there is more difference between lower and higher income in TS4 to cover all this


that was one of those things that made the Singer career from SHT so attractive compared to rock star. Once you got to lvl 10, your singer could make 20K to 30K in one performance in a big venue. Far more realistic than the "awesome concert and you made 620 simoleons" for the rock star..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pendragon
ETAA 8 sims per household. Not sure if I've seen this said before, I know I read the 20 sims per lot statements.


Well, they did want some continuity to prior games, so we still get an 8 sim max limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by missgothika

@SimGuruGraham: @kaiity_xx Off the top of my head... you can choose other specific Sims for them to socialize with, you can build specific skills, can sleep, can have them maintain their needs... things like careers have their own set of away actions that are more relevant to their work.
Source


Well, that's a relief. At least sleep made the cut to remain in the series. Although, have we actually seen any beds yet? Maybe that will be the first premium Store item to be offered. "Get your sims a place to lie down and rest that's more comfy than the couch!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
Here's one of the less serious examples... the plumbob isn't supposed to exist in the Sim's world. A Sim should have no knowledge of it. That rule has been broken many times in the name of self-referential humor, but it's definitely a rule that still comes up in discussions.

(really stopping now - this keyboard is miserable to type on atm with the broken key)


You mean there wasn't supposed to be a plumbob?
Then again, while I knew WE can see their plumbob, I didn't know the sims were aware of the plumbob over their heads until now, either.

And really Graham, given the amount of tweeting that's required for your position, EA should really pony up for a replacement keyboard for you. Hell, if you post your Amazon wish list, I'll even get you a new one (but not the $100 lit up gaming keyboard from Razer I know you had your eye on, but a nice Logitech is OK).
Instructor
#3117 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shuttlegrannyjo
Aaargh!! If only my toddlers were in the game, I'd buy it in a flat second!

I wouldn't, although it certainly would help inch me towards the "sort of want" crowd instead of the "how about no" crowd. They're stripping more and more features from the game, yet the price remains the same, at a whopping $80.00. That ain't chump change.
Inventor
#3118 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
I'd personally be really interested in exploring something in-game where if you have 500 simoleons to your name compared to 5,000,000 then that Sim acts differently and has different priorities in life. Maybe a poor Sim values family more and finds happiness in the small things while the rich Sim is always chasing the next big purchase to fill a void. How do their traits play into it? How does a Sim feel about being broke? What if the game had genuine homelessness and you weren't forced to own a lot? I wish money was more meaningful past the first few weeks of gameplay. I'd find it really interesting if I could decide the level of wealth of my family in CAS and then depending on your selection the way you started the game would vary in things like the neighborhood you live in, the people who would associate with you, the job opportunities available, etc.


I'd also love this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
One small thing I pushed for in Sims 4 that's different than Sims 3 is you can no longer just go bulldoze a lot next to a mansion and expect to be able to afford it with your new family. Property value has a more significant impact now.


This is a really awesome development. I like this a lot. A LOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
On a side note related to money stuff (and I'm going to keep this short - the spacebar on my keyboard broke today and it's really annoying typing), the consequences of not paying your bills is more severe now. Let your bills go without paying them? First your power gets shut off. Next your water gets shut off. It's a fun scenario to put your Sims in on occasion (they recognize it and get some unique socials about it). The bill upkeep on more expensive homes is harsher than it's been in the past as well, so you truly better be earning enough to support living in one. I hope both those things contribute to greater challenges when you put your Sims in those situations.


LOVE THIS BIT.

Shy, Clumsy, Insane, Artistic, Hopeless Romantic, Cat Person, Supernatural Fan

Art tumblr
deviantart
Lab Assistant
#3119 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
I often find myself wanting a life simulation that explores some of the darker themes of life as well.

Oh Graham, I wish Sims 4 would also show the bad sides of life. When i played the Sims 1 I was really afraid of thieves and I was really sad when a Sim died. Now everything seems so ridiculous. Sims can die of laughter and live in a Katy Perry fluffy unicorn world.

Emotions are the main point of the game? Really? To be honest, all the Sims act like children now. Last year i thought we will get a deep emotional game, which is so emotional that i have to blink my tears back when my Sim die or smile when my Sim fall in love. I want an affectionate relationship and connection to my Sim and not feeling awkward because of all the weirdness.

Do we get this connection in the Sims 4? Please tell me
Theorist
#3120 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:53 AM
Quick couple of questions, Graham, there are crime-related aspirations so I assume there is a crime career? Aannnddd...will burglaries still occur? It's a silly question but we'd love piece of mind :3

@manueldog To be fair the weirdness thing is just a marketing ploy to show you can do whatever the flip you want with the game. Pretty sure it won't be THAT weird and luchador stripper-like parties won't break out lol. At least I hope they won't cause they kinda scare me.
Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
29th Jun 2014 at 10:54 AM
This message has been deleted by Manueldog. Reason: delete
Field Researcher
#3121 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimGuruGraham
Not typically. On occasion I've seen designs or choices that push the current boundaries but they usually get reeled back in. It's a tough situation... you've got an extremely popular and established franchise that you need to protect, and with that comes "rules" that have been established over the years about what you can and can't do. Some of those rules were established by people who haven't been at EA for years, but it almost becomes tradition passing them down to new people.


Thanks for answering; I appreciate it. Your earlier tweet suggested that Sims shies away from difficulties, but I'm going to chalk that up to tweets being short by necessity (and perhaps not your general thoughts as to the nature of conflict in the Sims world). After all, I think having your electric and water shut off is pretty difficult.

I understand the idea of this being a franchise to protect, but I believe there must be a way to get a balance. Things like having your utilities shut off, or having furniture repossessed (will that make a return in TS4?), deals with the more serious side of life. Sims having an idea of their own finances would be great. There are a lot of things that could be done, and until we can see the game for ourselves, have no idea how much of it has been done. The marketing has been a lot of wrestling masks and rocket ships, and it sounds like it could be doing the game a disservice.

I do hope that toddlers and pre-teens get added, and that there's gameplay that makes those life stages worthwhile (pre-teens could have sleepovers or doodle in notebooks, teens could go to prom and have "the talk" and learn to drive, etc). There's a lot I want to like about the game, and maybe having those missing elements included and done well could really sell me on it down the road.
Lab Assistant
#3122 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorcitydude
I wouldn't, although it certainly would help inch me towards the "sort of want" crowd instead of the "how about no" crowd. They're stripping more and more features from the game, yet the price remains the same, at a whopping $80.00. That ain't chump change.


Yes...I know

I definitely will not pay to have toddlers back in game - they should never have been removed.
Inventor
#3123 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovcat
Quick couple of questions, Graham, there are crime-related aspirations so I assume there is a crime career? Aannnddd...will burglaries still occur? It's a silly question but we'd love piece of mind :3


Seconding this. :3

Shy, Clumsy, Insane, Artistic, Hopeless Romantic, Cat Person, Supernatural Fan

Art tumblr
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Instructor
#3124 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 10:59 AM Last edited by Motorcitydude : 29th Jun 2014 at 11:15 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shuttlegrannyjo
I definitely will not pay to have toddlers back in game - they should never have been removed.

Damn cockin' straight.

If E.A.'s plan is to remove them and have us pay to get them back, I certainly know I will not be privy to such a dastardly and despicable scheme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manueldog
Emotions are the main point of the game? Really? To be honest, all the Sims act like children now. Last year i thought we will get a deep emotional game, which is so emotional that i have to blink my tears back when my Sim die or smile when my Sim fall in love. I want an affectionate relationship and connection to my Sim and not feeling awkward because of all the weirdness.

Emotions have been in the game since 2000; wants and needs go down, they get upset. They go up, they're happy. It's just marketing, and not even good marketing at that. Quite simply, it's an insult to the consumer's intelligence if E.A. think's they're going to fall for that.

TS2 had full 3D. TS3 had open worlds. TS4 has, emotions? Daphuck?
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#3125 Old 29th Jun 2014 at 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by applefeather2
Not exactly true. They made the social bunny into a damn guitar - on that last video, anyway. Not that it's what people meant, but damn it, I'm picky and pissed off right now.

That was the freezer bunny and if I had bought/would buy/might have bought* this game, I would never ever use that horrible thing.

*look - I'm not buying it.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
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