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Scholar
#101 Old 10th Mar 2007 at 11:21 AM Last edited by Nouk : 11th Mar 2007 at 11:27 AM. Reason: I switched Cevic and Callum around XD
Thank you, Callum and cevic!

Cevic, I did as you told and just removed the hair part. It then worked.

Callum, what I do is finish up the adult mesh, assign all parts to bones, animate, etc.
Then test in game to see how animations are, see if all is well.

Then to convert to other ages without having to do all asssignments over and over again:

Use any age with a different skeleton, here it's teen.
*New project: Import a teen hairdo.
*Import the exported adult hair over it, choose to exclude the skeleton.
*Now delete teen parts.
*Import teen face obj. file for reference on how to fit the hair.
*Now resize the adult hair to fit the teen face/neck.
*Save export as teen, and it should work perfectly, done within a few minutes.

Huzzah you're done! Animated and all

Please visit WickedNoukFamily Forum for my creations.
Can't take requests, I'm completely swamped with unfinished projects! :O
Instructor
#102 Old 10th Mar 2007 at 11:10 PM
Nouk,Im glad to hear-and see-that it worked I dont get it when some people question my method,keep that in mind for next time,and Ill keep that what you mentioned in mind for next time too

DONT ASK ME FOR A REQUEST ^-^
New Policy,applies to all my meshes ^-^
Im not meshing/Simming now,details in my Policy thing
Test Subject
#103 Old 10th Mar 2007 at 11:32 PM
Now Milkshape 1.8 is released So i have question about compatibility
Do the plugins V4.08 work properly with it (won't there be any "hidden", unexcepted bugs) ?
Alchemist
Original Poster
#104 Old 11th Mar 2007 at 5:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Szynszyl
Now Milkshape 1.8 is released So i have question about compatibility
Do the plugins V4.08 work properly with it (won't there be any "hidden", unexcepted bugs) ?


I don't know that there aren't any hidden bugs in the plugins with older versions. If they weren't hidden, I could then fix them for y'all.

But I tested 4.08 (and 4.07) with a prerelease version of MilkShape (it was originally going to be 1.7.11 but then the feature list grew). I have used 4.08 with 1.8.0 and all the main things worked here.

There were several bugs in the original MilkShape 1.8.0 release that were fixed. If the message on the MilkShape downloads page said it was the fixed version, you're good to go. If it didn't, hightail it back there and get the newer copy.

I have found the 4.08 skeletal changes allow some very nice body mesh posing to be done using MilkShape's Anim mode.

<* Wes *>
Scholar
#105 Old 11th Mar 2007 at 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callum91
Nouk,Im glad to hear-and see-that it worked I dont get it when some people question my method,keep that in mind for next time,and Ill keep that what you mentioned in mind for next time too


I switched you and Cevic around in my answer, lol. However i did not question your method..?

Please visit WickedNoukFamily Forum for my creations.
Can't take requests, I'm completely swamped with unfinished projects! :O
Instructor
#106 Old 11th Mar 2007 at 2:47 PM
Nouk,lol....no I ment that tig sort of did,and Ive had my method questioned my others,but cant remeber who,lol >.< 'Obj would lose all the bone assignments, and I never do it that way' thats sort of questioning it,but hey,it works for me and thats what im used to,lol! i didnt mean you

DONT ASK ME FOR A REQUEST ^-^
New Policy,applies to all my meshes ^-^
Im not meshing/Simming now,details in my Policy thing
Admin of Randomness
retired moderator
#107 Old 12th Mar 2007 at 1:54 AM
Callum, it's not so much questioning as pointing out the drawbacks to that method. If a hair mesh has complex assignments, a person might not want to do them over for no reason. So yes, if someone is having a problem and you suggest obj format, I'm going to say 'hey, that isn't _necessary_ with these newer plugins', rather than having them think that obj is the only solution

"Undertake something that is difficult; it will do you good. Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn

Please do NOT PM me with requests, creation questions, or game help questions. Click for help:
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Instructor
#108 Old 12th Mar 2007 at 3:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggerypum
Callum, it's not so much questioning as pointing out the drawbacks to that method. If a hair mesh has complex assignments, a person might not want to do them over for no reason. So yes, if someone is having a problem and you suggest obj format, I'm going to say 'hey, that isn't _necessary_ with these newer plugins', rather than having them think that obj is the only solution


YEah,sorry for accusing you,but its just how I see things...I see things differently,lol!
I think I might try ditch my method,and try it how Nouk said,it sounds better

DONT ASK ME FOR A REQUEST ^-^
New Policy,applies to all my meshes ^-^
Im not meshing/Simming now,details in my Policy thing
Alchemist
Original Poster
#109 Old 13th Mar 2007 at 3:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouk
I switched you and Cevic around in my answer, lol. However i did not question your method..?


I never did see an example of a hair mesh with too many P1s.
Is this a pressing open issue? Or is it one to look at for next release?

<* Wes *>
Scholar
#110 Old 18th Mar 2007 at 1:27 AM
I've never seen it before, I don't know if it really is a problem. I didn't completely understand what it means yet, even after an explanation that everyone else gets, lol. Does it mean I have too many groups with the same name?

Please visit WickedNoukFamily Forum for my creations.
Can't take requests, I'm completely swamped with unfinished projects! :O
Alchemist
Original Poster
#111 Old 18th Mar 2007 at 4:36 AM
So this is one you made?
If so, OK. I will rework this limit for the next release.

What it means is that each group has a set of vertices, normals, UV coordinates, bone assignments, skin weights and maybe morphs. So the data for each of these kind of things is stored in a part of the file we called "P1" (for part one). So each group has five or more 'slots' used, plus about a dozen always.

Right now, the importer only set aside 128 slots, mainly due to the way the code is written and because that was way more than any mesh I had seen. And it has been this way for a long time (starting with my plugins long before UniMesh).

So it is more complex than the number of groups (of any name), but it is kind of like the number of groups times 5 plus 12 being limited to 128 or less.

But there is no longer any reason that the limit can't be larger. So unless this is an emergency, I will add that to the list for next release. Until then, just combine a couple of groups together.

<* Wes *>
Scholar
#112 Old 18th Mar 2007 at 2:01 PM
Ok thank you
I wonder, did you get any bodymesh to work made with the current SimPE and Seasons installed?

Please visit WickedNoukFamily Forum for my creations.
Can't take requests, I'm completely swamped with unfinished projects! :O
Alchemist
Original Poster
#113 Old 18th Mar 2007 at 3:22 PM
Myself, I have not created any new body meshes with seasons. The body meshes did work with the BodyShop that shipped with seasons.
Right now I have my game set back to the base game (to do some R&D).

<* Wes *>
Instructor
#114 Old 18th Mar 2007 at 4:32 PM
Nouk, all my body meshes made with SimPE 0.58 and Seasons work fine. I also helped a friend with a complicated accessory and it's ok.
Scholar
#115 Old 19th Mar 2007 at 8:46 PM
Thanks guys!

I also got my mesh to work fine A new outerwear mesh. Would have been awful to wait even a week for stuff to start working again with new updates XD I'm too impatient.

This is the mesh:
Screenshots

Please visit WickedNoukFamily Forum for my creations.
Can't take requests, I'm completely swamped with unfinished projects! :O
Instructor
#116 Old 19th Mar 2007 at 10:41 PM
Wow what a great idea for the Rave outfit, nice work!

Be sure to stop by Warlokk's Tower Workshop to see my latest creations!
Need help with the Bodyshape Sets? Bodyshape How-To Tutorial updated 11-18-06
Instructor
#117 Old 19th Mar 2007 at 10:45 PM
Great job, it's lovely!! :D
Alchemist
Original Poster
#118 Old 20th Mar 2007 at 2:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouk
A new outerwear mesh.


Nouk:

All I can say is you are very talented. That is quite a nice piece of work.

<* Wes *>
Test Subject
#119 Old 20th Mar 2007 at 2:27 AM
some one pleez help me im addicted to the sims and now i wana make my own clothes and i wana make a sim that looks like chris brown or bow wow but i have no clue how to use sim body shop and i read like a million tatoriuls
Alchemist
Original Poster
#120 Old 20th Mar 2007 at 3:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tifferz
some one pleez help me im addicted to the sims and now i wana make my own clothes and i wana make a sim that looks like chris brown or bow wow but i have no clue how to use sim body shop and i read like a million tatoriuls


I want to memorialize this message, in case the poster gets embarrassed and comes back to delete it. I particularly liked the dyslexic spelling of "tatoriuls". I also wonder where the other 999,000 or so BodyShop tutorials they read are posted at.

Certainly, someone addicted to The Sims 2 would be hard pressed to spend 10 minutes each reading a million tutorials. That would take about 19 continuous years to accomplish, and since The Sims 2 has only been out two years and change, I would guess you would have made Evelyn Wood jealous for your speed reading ability.

Or maybe you exaggerated a bit?

Gosh, why would anyone want to project such a poor image of themselves on their first post?

<* Wes *>
Scholar
#121 Old 20th Mar 2007 at 3:54 AM
Default One remaining Bug
I'm not sure if this is really a bug in UniMesh, or in the way MilkShape is passing the data to you for exporting, Wes - but I finally have realized what is causing this problem.

I myself have only had this happen with object meshes, but it also would explain some of the odd problems people have occasionally had with hair and body meshes -

See the pics - the first is the mesh in MilkShape before export, the second is how it looks when put back in the SimPE file, and in the game. The pic is actually the same GMDC I just exported, imported again with UniMesh just to show you, but it would look the same in SimPE and in game, with all the dark blotches.

This does not happen if I export as a .ms3dascii file - nor as an .obj file for that matter.

Anyway, I have finally realized that the vertices that are affected by this darkening are ones that a exact duplicates - for example, I made the inside of the top of the truck by duplicating the outside top faces, then reversing the vertex order and re-aligning the normals.

So, the blackened vertices are two (or more) vertices that share:

exact same 3d co-ordinates
exact same uv_mapping co-ordinates
exact same bone assignments (if any)
are in the same mesh group

In other words, exactly identical duplicates of each other EXCEPT for the normals.

I think either MilkShape's export handler, or else UniMesh, is mistaking these for useless duplicate vertices and combining them into one, thereby ruining the normals.

I hope this sheds some light...
Screenshots
Alchemist
Original Poster
#122 Old 20th Mar 2007 at 4:51 AM Last edited by wes_h : 20th Mar 2007 at 5:00 AM.
I have sent a request for a copy of this file.

The UniMesh exporter has a function that hunts down all welded vertices that have different UV coordinates and unwelds (duplicates) these. But that is about the opposite of what you suspect is wrong.

I want to see if the problem is vertices, normals, or if the ordering of the faces just gets changed such that the reversed faces are viewed above the non-reversed ones. I don't think the face order is changed from the order MilkShape gives it to me in, but I don't know that MilkShape internally doesn't look at the file differently when rendering the faces, or load the list in a different order from the way it passes them to the exporter.

I seem to recall when I made the insides of some things before I used the Scale function set to about 0.99 to make the inside part just a little bit smaller than the outer part.

When I look carefully at the roof, I see the faces gradually change from grey to black, rather than a sharp transition at what should be face boundaries, so I suspect ordering and rendering differences are involved here. But until I look at the file I am just guessing.

<* Wes *>
Instructor
#123 Old 20th Mar 2007 at 8:38 PM
As a long-time user of single-group alphas (same method: duplicate, reverse vertex order, align normals), I think there's something weird in the way these two-sided parts are treated.
Usually everything goes well on export, but if you use the "sel poly count" tool after this you'll see that it finds only one set of vertices for both sides when it sees two before exporting, while the extended manual edit still finds two. "Partial welding" is of course excluded, but there's something off in the way the mesh is read.
Now, in a way that seems random to me, sometimes the vertices are really welded on export and then the normals get messed-up - Dr Pixel's pics are a perfect example of this.
Instructor
#124 Old 21st Mar 2007 at 2:04 AM
Same here actually, I was using Marvine's single-group technique but found the results were a bit erratic... I had better success using separate groups for the inner layer, but it seems to need the inner layer above the outer in the group listing for the transparency to work properly. That's how it seems on clothing anyway, I imagine objects would be similar.

Be sure to stop by Warlokk's Tower Workshop to see my latest creations!
Need help with the Bodyshape Sets? Bodyshape How-To Tutorial updated 11-18-06
Alchemist
Original Poster
#125 Old 21st Mar 2007 at 3:40 AM
First, I replicated Dr. Pixel's prior screenshots here on both 1.7.10 and 1.8.0 versions on a copy of the .ms3d file he provided.

Since I didn't make the mesh, and have yet to make one like this to work on, I don't know for sure where the problem starts at. But I believe it is in MilkShape, either intentional or otherwise. And here is why I think this:

I dissected, to the best of my tools, Dr. Pixel's mesh. After looking at a lot of the mesh parts, I focussed on one area, which was his windshield group. I am attaching a couple screenshots, taken by loading the .ms3d file (before export and import).

One shot shows the entire group selected and then shown in the extended manual editor. This shows in the ms3d.log file as:

Passing group: "vehiclepickupnewblue_glassfront"...
42 triangles, 23 vertices.

The other screenshot is the windshield, with the front faces selected (ignore backfaces checked). You can count and verify there are 21 triangles on each side.

As you can see, either MilkShape is passing both UniMesh and ExtendedManualEdit this group with all the vertices welded (front to back) or MilkShape itself is welding them, and displaying them in a different sort order on the import versus the .ms3d file load.

Now, there is likely a way to determine if the .ms3d file Dr.Pixel sent me has seperate vertices or welded ones by examining the binary file itself. But either way, there is nothing I can do to change the outcome, because what UniMesh and ExtendedManualEdit get already have all of the vertices combined, one way or the other.

Now, with Dr.Pixel's permission, I can pass the file to Mete, who is on vacation for a few more days, I think. Or Dr.Pixel himself can pass the example (complete or partially stripped) to Mete. Besides the forums, Mete can be contacted by email.

I suspect there will be no quick fix (prior to 1.8.1) either way. The only short term suggestion I have is to use the Scale or Move functions after you Duplicate Selection to make sure that the vertices are at slightly different coordinates. As you can see in the screenshot, even before export/import the rendering is odd because the two sets of faces are co-planar.

<* Wes *>
Screenshots
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