Replies: 20 (Who?), Viewed: 502 times.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 27th Apr 2021 at 7:22 PM
Default Wants Based Play and Homework
I've been wondering, those of you who play wants-based, how do you handle child/teen homework? I thought that playing wants-based for homework would be great, because I figured it would give me more grade variety, but the thing is that, most sim children generally want to do their homework, and once they grow into teens they rarely if ever want to do their homework (even knowledge teens, I've found...) So now I'm feeling a different kind of lack of variety.

I'd like to hear how others go about this.
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 27th Apr 2021 at 7:53 PM
When I was a child and a teen I never wanted to do my homework but I was terrified of the consequences of going to school without it done. So I generally did it. On the three or four occasions in the whole thirteen years I was at school, that I didn't do my homework, I made sure I was off sick the next day. I didn't pretend to be ill; the thought of what would happen if I went into school without doing my homework was enough to make me really ill.

My schooldays were definitely not the happiest days of my life. They might have been if it hadn't been for homework. Hours and hours of it every day.

. . . My Sims generally do their homework -- one way or another. (A few serious ones even enjoy it!) I just find it hard to imagine anyone not doing it.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Mad Poster
#3 Old 27th Apr 2021 at 7:59 PM
Yeah, the homework is a pain in the neck, generally. One thing you could do just to reduce the number of times you have to make a decision about it is install a mod that has them only bringing homework home once in awhile.

Other than that, it's character play and resource juggling. The big thing people forget about being a kid is - you don't have much control over which wants you fill and which motives you address. I always fill the "learn to study" want ASAP because it makes everything so much easier, but y'know, not every kid has an older person around who is actually willing or able to help them learn to study. A kid who is tanking fun and energy when they get home from school may not be able to keep up with homework regardless of how much they want to. A player who is motivated to get the homework done can almost always find a way, but if you can restrain yourself on that point and only make the effort of finding that way for households that are stable and well-run enough to justify it, you can introduce grade disparity based on realistic economic and social factors.

Teens are a different matter because they hardly ever roll a want to do homework. Which makes sense - I never did homework because I actively wanted to, but because various social and psychological factors pushed me to get it done. Homework, in and of itself, is a crock! But the teen years are when the ability to make larger plans starts to kick in. A teen who doesn't want to do homework may still do it because they want to go to University and get scholarships, or because they want to be an Overachiever, or because they don't want to get fired from their after-school job, or because the teen they're crushing on is a Knowledge sim and they want to impress them. A teen with lots of responsibilities, or with an aspiration focused on non-academic priorities, or who never rolls a want to go to university until late in the game, may blow off not only homework, but school entirely, since they are not taken by the social worker if they get bad grades.

If you have trouble doing this organically, you may find systems like Jo's calculation of motivation helpful. Or you could make your own ruleset that guides you. For instance, I have played "simmigrant" families in which "learning to talk" in toddlers meant "learning to speak Simlish," and kids and teens without "learn to talk" memories could not learn to study in those households, nor could those with "learn to talk" memories learn directly from the original simmigrant generation, the idea being that without early code-switching skills the formal, written Simlish of homework was a huge barrier. Mine the memories, bios, personality points, and other data making up a sim and its surroundings for anything that makes sense to you as a way to supplement the want-focused playstyle.

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Scholar
#4 Old 27th Apr 2021 at 8:11 PM
I generally require Sim children to do homework, though in some more chaotic households it's difficult to get them in a good enough mood. Sometimes a more enthusiastic child will do a sibling's homework, too. Teens only do homework on a Saturday, a Snow Day, or if they have an active want to Do Homework, to Go to College or to Get the Scholar's Award. I don't lock the wants, so some teens - mostly Knowledge and Fortune - consistently do their homework, while the other aspirations may not. It's still not particularly satisfactory, but better than going by the Do Homework want alone; I do seem to get a wider variety of grades that better reflect the students' aspirations.

IMO, it would have been better if children and teens could maintain a C grade just by turning up to school on time every day and if doing homework brought the grade up only slightly (that is, if doing one lot of homework earned C+, the next one B-, etc), but EA didn't ask me . . .
Mad Poster
#5 Old 27th Apr 2021 at 10:31 PM
I have the 'auto-do' homework' and I require them to do it no matter what. Because I also have a hack that puts kids to bed at 8, if they don't get it done, they will either do it the next morning before school or when they're scheduled to do it again at 7 pm.

Why am I so strict on it? Heck, when I was growing up, I had no excuse for not doing it, and neither do they. The kids get enough rest, and they're usually in good moods by the time homework rolls around, so there's no excuse for them, either-except when they do not have homework to begin with, which is always a possibility.

Then again, I do have the odd children who like doing homework, and they'll roll wants to do it, so I lock the want and then oblige them the next time.

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Instructor
#6 Old 27th Apr 2021 at 11:13 PM
I have a mod that reduces the time homework takes, and I think this helps a lot because it doesn't totally tank their fun. For teens, they do their homework if they have a goal of going to college or doing well in their afterschool job. Otherwise, they may not do it, and sometimes for various reasons, they also play hookey from school. The consequences are that teens with a D grade when they graduate do not have the option of going to college.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#7 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicEcho
I've been wondering, those of you who play wants-based, how do you handle child/teen homework? I thought that playing wants-based for homework would be great, because I figured it would give me more grade variety, but the thing is that, most sim children generally want to do their homework, and once they grow into teens they rarely if ever want to do their homework (even knowledge teens, I've found...) So now I'm feeling a different kind of lack of variety.

I'd like to hear how others go about this.


I play a combination of want based and motivation/smarts based.
I add up each sims motivation/smarts score by adding neatness and activity together -playfulness.
Sims who score 0 or below are low, sims scoring 1-7 are average and those scoring 8+ are above average.

So with homework, if a parent is above average and driven they will make sure homework is done every day. They will give homework help every day since being driven and ambitious they want their children to do well. In this situation, the wants don't matter.

If the child is above average they will always do their homework most times asking the parent for homework help. Wants don't matter.

If the parent or child is average or below I then go by the child's wants. if the child has a want to do homework they do it, if they don't want to they don't.

I also use a mod called homework sometimes so homework is not an everyday thing.

I also use sshack which makes the social worker more sensible.
"The social worker will not be summoned for a child receiving bad grades unless the number of bad children outnumbers the number of passing children"

If more than one is going to fail I make them do enough homework for that not to happen.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Scholar
#8 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 12:27 AM
I have an autonomous homework mod and a mod that gives partial credit for partially done homework. The kids and teens will tend to do it just a little bit every day on their own. It’s enough to keep them in the C range.
Field Researcher
#9 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 5:14 AM
Typically, my kids get the want to do homework enough to create some variety. Some kids get it pretty rarely and have bad marks, some kids get it in the morning and try to do their homework before class and are sometimes successful and sometimes not, some kids do it every day.

Teens "want" to do their homework if they want to go to University, want to be an overachiever, or want to make money (and might otherwise lose their job).
As I find for Pleasure Seekers and Romance Teens especially that can mean they NEVER want to do their homework, which means ALL of them FAIL (which is boring), I also allow parents to have an influence.

If a parent/guardian goes into the same room as there are more than 2 sets of homework needing to be done, then that parent will make their child do the homework.
Typically, this means a parent has gone into the kids room and therefore cares enough about their kid to realize if they are doing poorly in school, so can do homework with that kid. It also means that interaction can fail, or that, despite going into that room, the parent may not have the time/energy/happiness level to help their kid.

I also have certain parents who have expectations of their kids.
The Burbs, for example, are parents who both care about Lucy but also have expectations of her. If she doesn't maintain a B average, she can't go out with friends.
Dina Goth has a reputation to uphold, so if any of her children hit a D, they are grounded until they get it back up to a C.
Brandi, on the other hand, doesn't have time to focus on that, and Nina certainly isn't going to tell her kids what to do - she never responded well to that.

I find then that if Dina's kid wants to go downtown or spend time with friends, it means that they also "want" to do their homework.

I love Wants-Based play, but there are a few areas where the wants system was not designed well for it - either all or nothing. Finding other wants that are justifiably going to mean a Sim does certain actions that they might never roll a want for is key to making it work for you.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#10 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 6:10 AM
Quote:
As I find for Pleasure Seekers and Romance Teens especially that can mean they NEVER want to do their homework, which means ALL of them FAIL (which is boring), I also allow parents to have an influence.


Yes, this pretty much sums up my conundrum. I really want to have variety in my sims' grades, because making everyone do homework is easy and would lead to every child/teen being an A+ legend. At the same time it's not fun at all when all of them fail either and that's what I was starting to experience after a while. Even sims who'd done really well in school at the beginning of their teen years would drop to a D.

This is also why in the past I've experimented with mods such as harder grades, or partial homework with harder homework. Harder grades was just... too hard and unfun, no matter how much I tried it, and the other combination wasn't so bad, but I figure there must be a way to play it out without mods satisfyingly enough.

I'm thinking about taking a look to see if they have a "go to college" want when they come back from school as a guideline to have teens do their homework more. I know it doesn't require them to have high grades to go but it seems like a decent work around. But now that makes me worry if I will have too many teens with high grades haha.

Quote:
I play a combination of want based and motivation/smarts based.
I add up each sims motivation/smarts score by adding neatness and activity together -playfulness.
Sims who score 0 or below are low, sims scoring 1-7 are average and those scoring 8+ are above average.


Your play system has always really intrigued me, it just seems a little daunting to me personally because there's a lot to keep track of hehe. For now I'd like to stick to some simpler solutions but maybe some time in the future I'll give this system a go because it does seem really interesting!

Quote:
But the teen years are when the ability to make larger plans starts to kick in!


That's a really good point Peni! I've actually been sort of neglecting lifetime wishes, because most of them are a little much for me.. Like 20 pet best friends, or 50 first dates or something.. I just can't be bothered haha. But there are some fun ones, especially the career oriented ones are great as a basic guideline for what the sim might want to do. But yes, wanting to go to university, or maybe even getting to private school, or even an in-story reason such as you said, can be great as a way to add some variety.

Thanks for all the replies everybody. I'd love to hear any further thoughts anyone might have on this topic as well.
Field Researcher
#11 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 7:27 AM
I have homework sometimes, which reduces the amount of homework kids and teens bring home. My sims generally do their homework when they have it, regardless of wants, but there are situations where they wouldn't.

For example, Tricou teen Vince never did his homework, because he started school in his mid-teens and didn't see the value of it. His siblings always do their, though - his older sister because she wanted to get into college, and knew it was going to be an uphill struggle starting school too late, and his younger siblings because it's just what you do, and because they had the good example of their foster-siblings.

Neo Matrix's dad died a few rotations ago, so he hasn't felt like homework. He prefers to hang out with his girlfriend to take his mind off things, and his mum's not in any state to help him. So when I opened his lot this rotation, he had three pieces of undone homework on his desk. Luckily, friends were on their way to rescue this family, and his honoury auntie helped him tackle homework mountain, and they got it all done in one sitting.

Teens with caring responsibilities might help their younger siblings with homework to the detriment of their own. I can forsee Luis and Sue Iana's marriage going south pretty soon, and when that happens it's easy to see eldest sibling Luisa blowing off homework to help her mami, take care of her baby brother, and help her other siblings with their homework.

I make it a rule that sims can't go to uni without a C (that's why Widespot cashire Sadie Wilkie never went - she was so close but blew off her last day at school to look after the Newson twins, who were still toddlers at that time), so if a teen really wants to go to college (or a friend or relative really wants it for them), they'll ususally get things sorted in time.

♫Cuz I don't have a home in this life, I have to roam. Got nowhere to lay my head, so I'll follow you instead, and set my gaze on the place I'm going to. Til then I'm homeless, but I'll roam with you...♫

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Top Secret Researcher
#12 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 9:16 AM
I don't see all of the kids in Dodge getting homework because many won't even be in school and those who do get an education likely got it by being home schooled until the town one day finally adds a schoolhouse and mostly it would only be children attending it and not even all children attend as a few live too far to attend and others because they are working on the family farm.That will change as the town moves into more modern times on entering the 20th century when education became more important and eventually became required by law.
Mad Poster
#13 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 12:08 PM
I use Homework Sometimes by TwoJeffs, along with Harder Homework and Partial Homework Credit both by Cyjon.

Also a social worker mod that only removes kids for poor grades if at least half the kids on the lot have failing grades - I always thought it was a bit heavy handed otherwise. This way it actually makes sense, because if all/most of the kids have bad grades, that probably means they're in poor mood a lot of the time, which is indicative of general neglect.

Harder Homework makes it so their personality and aspiration affects how quickly they can finish homework. Partial homework credit means that they can stop homework halfway through and not end up with an insurmountable pile that I can't keep up with. Homework Sometimes just gives me an occasional day off

I don't play solely wants-based. So I will direct sims to do homework, but only once per day and therefore if they are in a bad mood or they have a personality that makes homework hard for them, they probably won't get a lot of it done and it won't boost their grade by very much if at all. However, if they roll a want to do homework or get better grades, I can make them do it multiple times until it's completed.

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Mad Poster
#14 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peni Griffin
Yeah, the homework is a pain in the neck, generally. One thing you could do just to reduce the number of times you have to make a decision about it is install a mod that has them only bringing homework home once in awhile.
Ages ago I downloaded Jenflower's Homework Sometimes Faster Fun and it's been one of my favourite downloads ever since. It's pretty popular amongst a lot of my Sims too. With it Sims like Andrew, with his serious disposition and regular A+ grades, can polish off his homework in half an hour, and then he's free to go out and enjoy himself with a clear conscience. Moreover it helps a little with the problem of everybody getting an A+. Since they don't get homework every day it takes longer to get there. Hans Moltke (Julian's precocious little brother) started school in 2013, and he's still only a B+.

It's a little bit off-topic, but I had an interesting homework-related incident the other day. I was playing Val and Fay Briggs, and their two teenage boys, Robert and Victor, in Monopolis. While Victor is a menace, and the despair of his parents, Robert is the "good child" who always tries to please them. Val had already helped Victor with his homework in a (possibly doomed) attempt to improve his behaviour, but Robert had brought a friend, Freddie Oates, home from school, and he spent most of the afternoon trying to keep his new friend entertained, and by the time Freddie left, it was after eleven, and Robert hadn't even started his homework. To have a chance of doing it, he really needed help. His mother, Fay, is pregnant, so I told him not to ask her. So he went to ask his dad, Val. But Val was fast asleep in bed. What Robert then did, quite autonomously, was a brilliant piece of thinking. He turned the radio in his dad's room on, let it play for a couple of seconds, and then turned it off again. (It was Robert who thought of that -- I don't think I'd ever have thought of it. Who says Sims are stupid?) The radio was only on for seconds, but it was enough to wake Val up. And, as soon as he woke up, Robert was able to ask him for homework help. Of course Val got up and helped his son. After all, since he'd already done it for the badly behaved Victor, he could hardly refuse Robert.

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Instructor
#15 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 2:54 PM
Out of habit, I always make them do their homework, however I have been thinking of changing that. I'm going to put my uni rules into play here and have a child / teen do their homework if they either roll the want to, or have a high interest in school.

0-4 Interest = Only if they roll the want.
5 Interest = Keep grades to a C.
6-8 Interest = Keep grades to a B.
9-10 Interest = Keep grades to an A. Always do homework.

But that's just my system.

When a game is predictable, it's boring.
That goes for any medium that isn't life.
That's why The Sims 2 is my favourite sims game.
It has elements of unpredictability and everything feels more involved.
The Sims 4 is another story altogether...
1001001
retired moderator
#16 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 2:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsfreq
Harder Homework and Partial Homework Credit both by Cyjon.
Do you have a link to those please? I can't see them on Cyjon's site.
http://www.cyjon.net/node/42

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Test Subject
#17 Old 28th Apr 2021 at 3:37 PM
Default My Sims' Homework
I pretty much follow the system CrystalFlame360 uses, but since I can't keep up with how much homework earns a certain grade, I have my system set up thus:
A teen with 6 to 10 interest in school will always do their assignments.
A teen with 4 to 5 interest in school will do homework assignments on occasion, every other day.
A teen with 3 to 0 interest in school will never do their assignments, unless they fear getting fired from their job. In that case they will do just enough to keep a passing average.
I'm thinking of applying it to children as well, since they always pass, but I'm not sure. Maybe I'll give it a shot next round.
Instructor
#18 Old 29th Apr 2021 at 1:22 PM
They're on this site, @simsample

Partial Homework Credit.
Harder Homework

When a game is predictable, it's boring.
That goes for any medium that isn't life.
That's why The Sims 2 is my favourite sims game.
It has elements of unpredictability and everything feels more involved.
The Sims 4 is another story altogether...
1001001
retired moderator
#19 Old 29th Apr 2021 at 1:26 PM
@CrystalFlame360 Thank you! I never even thought to look here!

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Simpeople and Me Archive- -11Dots Archive- My Sims World Archive
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#20 Old 30th Apr 2021 at 3:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicEcho
Your play system has always really intrigued me, it just seems a little daunting to me personally because there's a lot to keep track of hehe. For now I'd like to stick to some simpler solutions but maybe some time in the future I'll give this system a go because it does seem really interesting!


I started playing this way as I got bored with every sim being the best. Even want based it was still too easy for sims to do exceptionally well. I play integrated so sims run everything, but who would become the maid or the nanny or the repair person if everyone goes through uni top of the class? Then I felt they should all be doctors, lawyers or CEO's but I needed shop keepers and gardeners. With double ageing, I had toddlers who had 8 points in some areas-they could have already got a scholarship! Then I saw another simmer mention their motivation score play so I took that and tweaked my own rules for it. Now I set toddlers as only being able to learn 1-2-3 skills in any given area and kids are 3-4-5 and teens I open up to 8. I wish scholarships were possible at below 8 points as it really doesn't allow them to go much past that.
This helps me sort out who will be going on to uni and who doesn't and what jobs they might have. I don't feel so much like I am picking and choosing for them.

I keep track of the score in the sim's bio. When I first load a house I go through and check. I add it up when they become toddlers and set overachievers smart on the batbox. No smart milk. They are either smart or not. Then I use the simblender to set the skill limits. Recently William made this easier to use.
But as to rules, well you don't have to have those. I just like them.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Top Secret Researcher
#21 Old 30th Apr 2021 at 6:13 PM
I've had the option to set limits on skilling and many factors play into how well sims attending school will do at it and many who don't attend school might one day have limited job options open to them and even those going to regular school might be somewhat less limited though there could still be limits if they didn't go for higher education though that pnly applies when higher education is available in my town as it get larger and more advanced.
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