Replies: 299 (Who?), Viewed: 97915 times.
Page 9 of 12
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#201 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 3:10 AM
Lol! I'm not making plans of organizing a "shader project", au contraire! It was an elegant way to call me out from a possible inclusion of the shaders in the TXMT project :P
And as for the shaders/TXMT hierarchy, I think Teko and I are saying the same thing: TXMTs are somehow "less important" than shaders. A shader could even be coded to work without any TXMT passing parameters to it.
Teko has already proved that it is possible to talk about the shaders almost without mentioning the TXMTs, but of course, writing an analysis of the shaders isn't possible without referring to the various TXMT parameters. I would be more than glad if Teko would write about the shaders; I only think that it would be much easier for him if he could access (and refer to) the TXMT data collected by us, without having to duplicate the efforts.

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Mad Poster
#202 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 8:26 AM Last edited by niol : 27th Nov 2006 at 5:35 PM.
Sorry for my a few days of absence...

Actually, from what I've seen and expreimented.
Sometimes, for certain settings such as those for pool-surface-tiles, the shaders can have the ultimate effect on the colouration of the these tiles while the locally modded floor tiles can't control the final coloration.
Yet, in the same example, the wavy x and y parameters in the local pool-surface-tiles can override the shader default settings locally but not globally, so those tiles are basically local mods themselves.

So, I don't think a 1-way hierarchy can help others understand the shader's role in my view. A bistable type of circuit may do it! :D
I'd say the material shaders and the txmt files can have variable roles of dominance, co-dominance and/or recessiveness.

A material shader is a global setting for a particular sort of material while txmt file is for local "fine-tuning" settings generally but unnecessarily to be so. [*added* From my limited experiences so far, all the property parameters of txmt are predefined by the material shaders. *added*]

A modded txmt file can build up a mod as a recolour when it can contain upstream parameters or predefined upstream material type that will affect how the game renders.
Instructor
#203 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 5:15 PM
Your elegant way wasn't clear enough to me, Numenor

Without understanding shaders (just first 'aha-effects') but what I just saw so far it seems to me that shaders and TXMT behave more like Niol says - that's why I was talking about going on with both at the same time, "a bistable type of circuit may do it!" :D

Welcome back, Niol! At least you undestood me again Hopefully Numenor understands you, you and me Numenor, Teko at least one of us - in best case rather you or Numenor than me, maybe even all three of us, Pixelhate could maybe understand one of this bunch, maybe even Numenor and in this case we can just hope that Numenor understands at least Teko and you... and I just can go on talking because you understand me and can translate Khaibit to all the others, clear?

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#204 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 5:26 PM
I don't understand you, usually, so I hope Niol can translate for me too

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Lab Assistant
#205 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 5:42 PM
OT: Khaibit, your last part is even harder to understand than the shaders.

I have never written a wiki article but I can try that. I just need to collect more of the data I know (saved in my head, not written down yet) and make sure it's right what I tell. And it would be good if Niol can have a look at it and if he's got the same results about shaders.

Numenor, I think you can go on with the xls-sheet you have posted. It looks very complete to me.
By the way, I guess there can be added own links for parameters between the shader and the TXMT. Like this:

$MyVeryStupidLinkForAValue (Shader)

MyVeryStupidLinkForAValue : 0.6,0.6,0.6 (TXMT)

At least it's just an assumption and isn't very useful though.

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Instructor
#206 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 6:20 PM
Inge, of course I didn't forget you - but I already realized that you usually don't understand me so including you in this complex understanding huddle would maybe even have been too much for Niol
Teko: this was still an easy-to-follow version because I tried to be understood :D

Topic:
Teko, as you talk about linking single shaders seems like you want to make it "big" - if I understand the stuff I can try and write an analogy for understanding (= without 'lots of background is required for understanding the shaders') the differences and similarities of Material Shaders and Material Definition if you don't want to write it on your own/ would like to be helped even by me.
Maybe the refering topics should be explained similar (mean: well enough, understandable) to point out the differences and similarities and the relation. Clear what I mean? (Frustrating that I really started to ask all the time if I'm understood but obviosly I ain't... )

Cross links will be great (one of the big advantages of the Wiki) so when the stuff is prepared - so far - adding the related cross links will be easy Maybe finding out how to cross link can be the tricky part - just one cross link/ other additional shaders/TXMTs referring to this, is the cross link- structure finished or is something missing? (Niol, could you, please...?)

@all, I guess not only Niol can help Teko out like Teko could have additional infos for us, also for the TXMT plugin I guess, so a cooperation does makes sense

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Mad Poster
#207 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 8:16 PM Last edited by niol : 1st Dec 2006 at 5:38 PM.
Trying to catch up...


My hero Numenor,

For the Q on post 191, Bingo!
"a fourth value for the Intensity" = the transparency alpha value (surely when the alpha blend mode is enabled.)

On one hand, I do agree with you that the material shaders should be a separate topic from this project coz I doubt we all (those in the txmt project) can deal with the material shaders with full confidence unless someones with such full knowledge will join in to help out (Then, that's an another story). Just to try not to chew more than we can bite before we choke is often a wise decision made.
Yet, we may find Teko to help out to talk about the shaders somewhat for better undestanding. :D

Sorry, just dl-ed and haven't read the new xls yet, so no comment yet...:P

Actually, there're many infos from the shaders, which we do need for our txmt projects "unfortunately"... ***added : Oops... Having read the previous posts but forgetten the contents of the recent post... So, you also think so..., so I should get slapped for that...! ***


the txmt project members,

Lol just in case, what Khaibit meant was that we may learn more about both the txmt and the shaders through an interactive learning back and forth on these 2 subjects. Yet, I guess we (the txmt project members) may not "publish" anything about the shaders in the txmt sections until the shader wiki is ready to start, but we can still "discuss" the shaders for the txmt project.

As for the scope for the txmt project, let's finish up the field of the base game first before the EPs, or we'll have started too many things at a time that the pressure may enervate our motivation. Surely, Khaibit may be an exception coz the cell cycle of her spirit is ALWAYS on! (For those who's learnt a bit of general biology should understand what I meant.. Shall I get stomped later? :P)


Khaibit,
for post 192, you're not alone wanting 7z to be used in MTS2... I want uha, too, esp. for Bodyshop products.. :P
There're no "thousands of new TXMT materials"... but just less than a hundred ones so far for the listed. lol, just open your eyes to count it again... But, I can't tell how many paramters are there! :P
"for what kind of package would these make sense, couldn't 'texturing' not solved with already available stuff?"
No, niol can never be satisfied by the already in-game materails... If so, I wou;dn't be digging for more! (:ranting: I want a bloody wavy watery surface for my horror themes... I want new roof materials... I want new glass materials... I want ghostly materials.. blah blah blah... oops... niol is just leaking his greed as der "vint"!)
After all, aren't mutual understanding and comunication parts of our goals? :D
When we get to the parts, we'll know what might have been missing... So, no worry...!


My heroine Inge,
It's time for you to interact with a German in order to understand them... :sarcastically and honestly... The first time I talked with a German at the college I was in, I was shocked and amazed by how that person expressed things in English... But, getting along a while, I started to understand what they really mean... That's a big good thing about multi-culturalism! I see more things than I do in one "colour-blind" culture. Surely, I think I've benefitted a lot from that... :D


Teko,
For material shaders, I think and believe you know much better than I do...
Thanks for the useful links. :thumb up: Now, I can learn more about the shader thingy.
it was just that I was fooling around about the applicability of them rather than the coding structures..
:ha ha ha: for your humourous descriptions and probable help on the shader wiki (so, I can learn more by the way...)... Danke.


All,

can someone post the material shader scripts of Pets... for analyses if that's OK?
I'm curious how they do the layering thing...

[@ all, this's what I think.

txmt files do need materails shaders to work out, or they become meaningless when alone. Many material shaders can work alone well without txmt files, such the roof shader, the neighbourhood shader, the wall shader, the mirror shader etc... Yet, it sucks when they have no txmt files for local customisations, just think about the roof recolouring! And if they do like the wall shader, full customisation is unavailable, argh...(Why didn't they just make up one major material for most materials for much more possibilities in the future? When the coders couldn't think of some possibilities, they unconsciously shut the door to them.) Without local customisability by modded txmt files , we're gonna lose easier local game modding. txmt files can be a local graphical partial hybrid or linker between a local object and a "global" material shader.

Just in case, just think of the TS2 material engine (in a general overall sense) like a paint programme and a 3d programme for those who happen not to be aware of that. To set the txmt parameter values is just the same as to set the filter values to see preview(s) of the editted graphic in your paint programme. Shaders in TS2 are kinda like graphical plugins for such rendering.]

Shaders are responsible to connect the traslations between the MS D3D (according to Teko's post) and graphical presentations of TS2. MS D3D is a 3D graphical means for the hardwares (video card, the monitor...) to read for 3D graphical presentation? (lol, please correct me if I'm wrong... I'm only telling what I've "understood" from what I've read so far.)

I meant "a bistable type of circuit" in the context of applicability rather than that of the original structural intention when I thought back... I know some ways to use them might not be intended, but you know how naughty niol is.
Lab Assistant
#208 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 8:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niol
Shaders are responsible to connect the traslations between the MS D3D (according to Teko's post) and graphical presentations of TS2.

To the exported Maya materials were Assembler code and HLSL code added. That's what the Maxis Material Shaders are.

(Based on notes by Maxis in the shader code)

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Instructor
#209 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 9:07 PM
quick notice:
I put all the 68 MATSHAD together in one txt I'll upload with the 'real' reply, ok?!

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Mad Poster
#210 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 9:35 PM
teko,

Thanks... Still, I'm in confusion... :twinkle little stars:
Was that from the shader with HLSL codes? Now, I guess I was reminded of that statement I read somewhere among the shaders.
I'm still thinking what that statement can mean...
They're Maya materials (probably back in 2002!)... Can new Maya materials be integrated into TS2... by the way? :D

There're some shaders designed for running in / identifying a range of hardware types and grades in order to choose the appropriate settings for rendering... Some dummy tests...

(I"m gonna take a nap again... before anything else.)


Khaibit,
"68" MATerialSHADer... Danke...


(Oops: that German was one of the those I had conversations with.)
Instructor
#211 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 10:26 PM
Here's the real reply...
and HA! Someone who agrees at last!
Quote:
Actually, there're many infos from the shaders, which we do need for our txmt projects "unfortunately"...
That's what I meant, the interactive understanding/ learning - nothing more, nothing less so far Niol, you're not only my "understanding-hero"

No reason to stomp, trample down or kick you - but it seems like you have quite a good understanding of happenings while I'm busy with boring stuff, like e.g. having a shower vs. bored mind... Hopefully I can lead my spirit in one direction

Do you know this German expression "tierische Übertreibung"? Actually it seemed to be round about 3 mio. new TXMTs, roger? :D
Seems like they find better solutions for already working/ available stuff, more solutions for new stuff and more ideas which require even better solutions, don't they? Ok, it was a stupid question... your wants sound bloody familiar to me and I like so far our goals :D

Now I am curious: how do German express things different in English? And don't just reply: 'German' please, that's not helpful...
@Moderator Numenor: get Delphy ready to enable 7z-file support in here, please. (already wanted by two members! )

To the txt (RAR because of the size):
Hopefully quite self-explaining...
In #46 there's something about a "version 4", shader for mirror reflections... changes in comparison to older EPs??? Anyway, some useful hints and lots of confusing stuff inside... Teko?! :D
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: rar Pets_MATSHAD.rar (97.4 KB, 20 downloads) - View custom content

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Lab Assistant
#212 Old 27th Nov 2006 at 10:27 PM Last edited by teko : 27th Nov 2006 at 11:32 PM.
HLSL is more common today than Assembler. Sims 2 is kept on a very low level of possibilities with graphics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niol
Can new Maya materials be integrated into TS2... by the way? :D

Don't know. But if it's similiar to the MATSHAD we have in Sims 2 I guess so.
It would be actually interesting to see such an exportet Maya material.

Edit:
Thanks Khaibit. This is very useful! ... Gosh! Very very very useful!! I've just found a simple Pixelshader and Vertexshader which explains the structure of much better to me. Maxis thought at us.

Edit2:
I forgot to mention that the reflection shader hasn't changed since the base game. It was always version 4.
Between, through reading the txt-file the code is now much clearer to me than an hour ago. I have an assumption how to combine the mirror reflection with a normal map. :D

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Instructor
#213 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 4:03 AM
Default Maya owner around?
I just would like to know what exactly a "Maya Material" is... googled and found a Making a Glass Shader tutorial (a PDF which can be downloaded in there...).
I took a look but uhh? Without the prog (and understanding all words in there) this didn't help me out so is a Maya user around who can please explain to a stupid one what exactly these Materials are? What's the difference to ordinary texture materieal applied to the mesh? OK, shader are "thingies" for effects in Maya, right? But in which point is the difference, what makes them special - and referring to topic, how can they be used by Maxis (yes, they were "improved" but they're used as a base...)?
(tried to express myself clear - did it work? :D)

Next qustion would be: what are these "MS D3D" :D

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#214 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 9:32 AM
Is MS3D3 the Milkshape file format?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Instructor
#215 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 9:55 AM
Hey, Inge, you understood at least the "next question"! *patpat* :p
Would make sense - but why Milkshape when Maya was topic- Niol???

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#216 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaibit
*patpat* :p


/me Kung-fu kicks Khaibit

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Instructor
#217 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 10:42 AM

/me strikes back with Kibotu

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#218 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 10:49 AM
Watch out or I shall invert your normals! (Actually I am very good at that...)

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Instructor
#219 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 10:56 AM
Try that and I weld you together

(absolutely senseless fooling around - we're kiddies )

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Scholar
#220 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 11:27 AM
I think the Milkshape file format is : .ms3d

Understand Material definition-TXMT and customize the look of your objects ! This way

"The longer something exists in this world, the more wear and tear it will have."
Instructor
#221 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 11:38 AM
*throws a Christmas tree ball at Pix*
Maybe it's version 3 :D
I just lost all my updated downloads, my updated neighborhood, collections... ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!
For sure when you one time, just one **** time not back your files up because 1 million times didn't happen anything this time it happens, Murphy's law - at the moment I hate the base game starter - and the data recovery freeware tool Numenor suggested only says "Error 6" when trying to read my HDD - ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!
I don't know anyway why Milkshape should be involved in Maya's shaders so why not version 3?
*takes a deeeep breath*...
I'm fine... *throws some Christmas tree balls around*

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Scholar
#222 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 11:49 AM
Actual version of Milkshape is 1.7.10, so I don't get the link with a V3 ??

Despite all that blinky christmas crap all over me, I feel sorry and compassionate for you, Khai !

Understand Material definition-TXMT and customize the look of your objects ! This way

"The longer something exists in this world, the more wear and tear it will have."
Instructor
#223 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 12:06 PM
*still throwing Christmas tree balls around*
The stuff at TSR isn't free anymore! Such a great male hair mesh!

There's nothing to 'get' except a valid explanation - mine was just the 1st idea I've had... MS could also be Microschrott without any reason - I don't know that's why I ask... and what's the result? Inge clobbers me, my PC looses data, and I still don't know more about the stuff... feels like Friday, 13th so far... :banghead:... and you even laugh at me...
*goes on throwing, targeting Numenor*

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Lab Assistant
#224 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 12:30 PM
Khaibit, you have mixed something up.

Niol said

MS D3D = Microsoft Direct 3D :D

Minisite

TSR Workshop
A Custom Content Tool for The Sims 3
Instructor
#225 Old 28th Nov 2006 at 12:38 PM Last edited by Khaibit : 28th Nov 2006 at 5:21 PM.
at least I wasn't wrong with Microschrott then!
What about forching Niol to type words instead of abbrs which confuse even Inge? :D

*throwing Chtrba at N.* :D

Thanks Teko

Edit: Teko, do you actually know what "KiBoTu" is? Inge didn't understand me again I guess :D

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Page 9 of 12
Back to top