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Top Secret Researcher
#2226 Old 26th May 2020 at 6:35 PM
I don't really get the video. I mean, yeah I guess you could make your toddlers use pet stuff. But you could also get some toddler blankets (like Atavera's or Huge Lunatic's) or toddler beds. And there are bottomless bottles/sippy cups. There are also toddler eating tables (like these or this one). These are not new things either. ...I guess using pet items is funnier.

Idk. I never really have trouble taking care of toddlers, especially since mods to help make them self sufficient and/or keep them out of stuff, exist. I really only have trouble when I have multiples (like 5+) at once. Then again, maybe taking care of 10 toddlers at once changes a simmer. After that, I guess I should feel confident, .

"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO

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Scholar
#2227 Old 26th May 2020 at 6:52 PM
I actually consider all of that stuff to be cheating. Real life toddlers can't take care of themselves, they need adult supervision and Sims toddlers should also need adult supervision. If you're playing a neglectful parent who doesn't supervise their toddlers well enough, the toddlers should have to use pet items and be generally quite a bit worse off than toddlers that have doting parents with time to attend to them.
Field Researcher
#2228 Old 26th May 2020 at 7:37 PM
Phantomknight, I have a friend who has no insecurities and managed to balance good grades with a party animal life and a regular sleep schedule, and your having raised 10 toddlers gives off the same inhuman celestial being vibes as he gives off. I'm quite sure you are not human.
Mad Poster
#2229 Old 26th May 2020 at 7:59 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 27th May 2020 at 12:58 PM.
A toddler with access to something soft to nap on, toys, and some toddler-safe snacks could do a little bit of self managing at home in a toddler-proofed house (not completely alone, of course, but with parents or an older sibling around the house, but say in another room or out in the garden), without being constantly watched, if they were 2+ years old or thereabout. If they're sleeping... hours? You'd honestly not sit constantly watching them 24/7. You'd go nuts. You have to do other things around the house. Even babies have a bare minimum of very basic survival abilities (they actually have a wide array of signs/reflexes to show which basic need they want help with, long before they start crying. If they're not met with understanding and it goes too long, they start screaming for immediate attention).

Without any help it's really difficult in TS2. I've had 3-4 toddlers at once in a relatively vanilla game, and it's quite the challenge because without the "cheaty" objects you need an adult to fill most needs and do most tasks, and the more toddlers the more outnumbered the adults are...

I've tried the 7 toddler challenge in TS4, and in comparison it's ridicolously easier - apart from needing potty training and some startup help on one of the skills, toddlers are almost completely self-sufficient, as long as adults prepare regular meals they leave out, clean up the potties, and occasionally give the toddlers a bath before they learn to go potty. They can get in and out of bed, go potty without training if they are independent, take servings from meals, skill, socialize with other toddlers or toys, and otherwise manage almost without interacting with the adult sim.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2230 Old 26th May 2020 at 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugoisama
So I found this video by Marticore on youtube. My wig is now gone, it was last seen with Bella Goth.


Unless they are using the mod to increase pet bed energy, the energy bar goes up so slowly in a pet bed that the toddler will wake for other needs before the bar is full and after eating, which takes longer at a pet bowl, they will gradually develop worse all over needs because of the amount of time spent on eating and sleeping, so there is very limited time to bath, play and socialize let alone for training.
Certainly in a pinch it is a vanilla way of handling toddlers but CC toddler beds and sippy cups as has been mentioned is far away superior and lets them be more independent.
My toddler life span is 8 days, if I want I can fully train a toddler over 1,2 days at most with no cheats. I don't normally want that but I have done by doing a dream date then using a thinking cap and smart milk and coffee. Even faster if it is Autumn. I could not manage this using an unmodded pet bed.

Toddlerhood in-game is an age range, that range is up to the player to determine, but to say that is realistic isn't true. Apart from the fact that rl toddlers are a lot of work, otherwise vanilla sims 2 toddlers are permanently stuck as 1-year-olds.
I have a variety of rules for toddlers that I change as they get older and learn skills, because real-life toddlers do not just sleep in a crib and get a bottle, many are fully on sippy cups by 18 months and toddler beds by 2. I view mine as age ranging from 1-4., with 1 year being gained every 2 days.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#2231 Old 27th May 2020 at 12:04 AM
I think the question of what should Sims 2 toddlers handle depends on if you see them as all 1-2 years old, or if you see them as stretching the entire age range to first graders as children start full day school in Sims 2.

If your toddlers are eternally 1-2 years old, they shouldn't handle much. If some of them are 4-5 years old, they're a lot more capable. I have a real live five year old: pre-K this last year because of where her birthday falls. She can get a drink from the tap or a container in the fridge. She can help herself to fresh fruit or string cheese or washed and cut veggies from the fridge. She can make a pbj sandwich if someone has sliced the bread for her. She can read basic phonics. She can write but not spell very well. She can play two hands on the piano and read easy music. She's kid #6, I'd say except for being an early reader she's pretty normal for a five and a half year old child. And she'd start Kindergarten in the fall if she weren't home schooled, so if she were a Sim, she wouldn't be child aged yet. (What grades are my kids? Who knows? Who cares?)

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
Top Secret Researcher
#2232 Old 27th May 2020 at 1:01 AM
That's a good way for me to look at it Kestrellyn, because honestly, my view has always been that I'm the one looking after them. Like, 'don't touch the stereo, I'm listening to it' and 'what do you mean the kids need someone to watch them--hello, I'm here!' Anyway, I usually don't use things like bottomless bottles and sippy cups--I mentioned them for simmers who do have trouble looking after toddlers, cuz that seems more humane to me than letting them eat pet food. I generally save mods like those for the parents who don't care/are supposed to be hands off. It's an opposite approach in my game--the neglectful parents are the ones that will put out the blankets and the food and leave the toddler to fend for themselves. The more doting parents don't use bottomless bottles/sippy cups and will be more proactive about feeding the toddlers and paying attention to them. And everyone teaches toddlers their skills in my game. Or attempts to. I thought about this for a while and I don't think it's fair to stunt a kid's growth because of their parents' wants, especially since in my game, I generally don't do unwanted kids. Someone--either the sims or me--wants them. So I decided that all my sim kids have a right to a good start, that their parents and guardians will at least attempt to teach them the 3 main skills. If I run out of time after their extended 6 day span, then, oh well, but I tried at least. Instead my neglectful parents are more likely to hire a nanny and get someone else to take care of the kids and teach them skills. And parents' lack of motivation and interest will (eventually) influence the types of toys I use in the household, so that toddlers with neglectful parents end up with less skill points and worse relationships with their parents, but in the end are still well fed and their basic motives get met, etc. Does that make sense? And the parents who really, really don't want kids around will either leave, like my Jessica Peterson who just walked out on her husband and kids, or send the kids away (via adoption/boarding school/grandparents' house/etc.).

It also probably helps that I rarely have pets around in the first place. But, tbh, the toddlers eating pet food thing is a pet peeve I modded out because they do it when they're not even hungry or in low aspiration. It's just fun for them. Like Jo said, these items aren't really good at taking care of their motives. It'll do in a pinch, but there's cc out there that does the job better. I was thinking more along the lines of 'why would I let them sleep in a pet bed when there's perfectly good blankets and toddler beds they can sleep on instead.' But you're right, I didn't consider the story, or how young some see toddlers.

I do see TS2 toddlers as more 4-5, so them being able to go to sleep by themselves doesn't seem so weird to me--though real life toddlers probably tend to just sleep wherever they are, rather than going to bed. And because of that I do use Atavera's blanket almost all the time, unless I specifically want more of a challenge for a particular family. It's just more convenient for me and my sims and, on the whole, I see it as sim parents doing a bit more planning so that they don't have be bothered every five minutes. They set up the nursery and play area and sometimes even baby proof it so the toddlers don't wander. They make sure they've got everything they need to keep them occupied when they're awake and only check on them when it's time to eat--or they leave food out so the tykes can get it themselves. And it's okay if they don't have too much interaction with the kids sometimes, cuz like I said before, I'm watching them.

And Sugoisama, thanks! I'm definitely human, though, and I'm sure others could do the same. I think it just takes time for a simmer to develop their best approach to toddlers. For some it's snapdragons and smart milk or getting rid of the stage completely. For me its setting up all the things they need and letting them do what they want. It's funny, too, cuz it's probably the most autonomy I consciously give them!

"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO

XPTL Mod Archive | Change a Mod's Mesh into a CC Object | Increasing the Game Difficulty | Editing ACR 4 Your Age Mod
Bored? Read an unfinished legacy or sim story. | Kelyns on other forums
Top Secret Researcher
#2233 Old 27th May 2020 at 1:19 AM Last edited by yavannatw : 27th May 2020 at 5:06 AM. Reason: typo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbee
I think the question of what should Sims 2 toddlers handle depends on if you see them as all 1-2 years old, or if you see them as stretching the entire age range to first graders as children start full day school in Sims 2.

If your toddlers are eternally 1-2 years old, they shouldn't handle much. If some of them are 4-5 years old, they're a lot more capable. I have a real live five year old: pre-K this last year because of where her birthday falls. She can get a drink from the tap or a container in the fridge. She can help herself to fresh fruit or string cheese or washed and cut veggies from the fridge. She can make a pbj sandwich if someone has sliced the bread for her. She can read basic phonics. She can write but not spell very well. She can play two hands on the piano and read easy music. She's kid #6, I'd say except for being an early reader she's pretty normal for a five and a half year old child. And she'd start Kindergarten in the fall if she weren't home schooled, so if she were a Sim, she wouldn't be child aged yet. (What grades are my kids? Who knows? Who cares?)

Children start school at different ages in different countries. In New Zealand they start school at age 5 and go to kindergarten before that. So for me, toddlers in Sims are ages 1-4.
I don't usually have a problem playing toddlers unless the parents have a big family and little time, then they tend to become neglectful parents or the older children help out. I don't tend to use any cheats (not even smart milk), as I don't feel the need for them. I do, however, have a toddler blanket and toddler bed which they can use.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2234 Old 27th May 2020 at 2:12 AM
Even if a simmer views in-game toddlers as being 2, in real life bottles are contraindicated for 2 year olds by the Academy of Pediatrics and plenty are in toddler beds by then because they can climb out of a crib.

I get why a never go bad sippy can be seen as neglectful since nobody in RL who is not neglectful is going to leave milk out for days on the floor, yuck. However in game that doesn't really bother me lol, I guess because it doesn't go off and I don't feel a need to drag parents out of bed to feed any toddler who is at least 2 or older at night. If a parent is very particular I have them use Bek's booster seat and toddler foods, but again, not in the middle of the night. I never fed my kids in the middle of the night as toddlers. Real-life toddlers sleep varies a lot, my two were good sleepers who mostly slept all night.

People can play their sims however they like, but when people dislike in-game toddlers for reasons that have been modded or fixed, that seems rather pointless.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Instructor
#2235 Old 27th May 2020 at 2:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
I actually consider all of that stuff to be cheating. Real life toddlers can't take care of themselves, they need adult supervision and Sims toddlers should also need adult supervision. If you're playing a neglectful parent who doesn't supervise their toddlers well enough, the toddlers should have to use pet items and be generally quite a bit worse off than toddlers that have doting parents with time to attend to them.

If it's about realism, a real life child could get a bottle from the fridge to feed a toddler, and they can't in the game. Toddlers also (generally) sleep through the night instead of waking up after 4 hours like they do in vanilla cribs. I guess if it's cheating or not depends on whether the player thinks the game standards are set in stone, regardless of inaccuracies, or if they want to imagine real life scenarios.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2236 Old 27th May 2020 at 3:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspiredzone
If it's about realism, a real life child could get a bottle from the fridge to feed a toddler, and they can't in the game. Toddlers also (generally) sleep through the night instead of waking up after 4 hours like they do in vanilla cribs. I guess if it's cheating or not depends on whether the player thinks the game standards are set in stone, regardless of inaccuracies, or if they want to imagine real life scenarios.


There is a mod for that, http://www.leefish.nl/mybb/thread-2095.html only they don't hand it to the toddler but place it on the floor.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#2237 Old 27th May 2020 at 5:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I never fed my kids in the middle of the night as toddlers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspiredzone
Toddlers also (generally) sleep through the night instead of waking up after 4 hours

What species were they? What planet did they come from? (Where can I find some?) But in all seriousness...once my kids were about 18-24 months they did finally start sleeping 6-8 hours in a stretch. Before that, though, yes it definitely was every 4 hours at a minimum that they woke up. And yes, I needed to feed them. Of course, being a real human and not a sim, I could in fact just feed them in my own bed from my own breast rather than hiking all the way to the fridge for a bottle. And then they also went right back to sleep, since it was still the middle of the night and they still needed to sleep. It would be nice, I guess, if we could get sim toddlers to behave a bit more like real human ones, but I feel like there are some game limitations we just kind of need to learn to live with in one way or another.

As far as toddlers being stuck at a certain age goes, that's how every life stage works. Children are perpetually 6 until they pop suddenly into 12-year-olds. Adults are 20 until they pop into ancient and stooped "ah! my back!" territory. (If Parlives manages to pull off gradual aging, I'd be quite interested how that works from a game-play perspective!) I think in TS4 the toddlers start out walking (it's been a while since I played TS4), so it makes sense that they can get in and out of a bed and on an off a potty without help. It probably makes a lot less sense that they can reach all the way up on a counter and grab themselves a plate of food without spilling it, tho. I could never get the TS4 highchair to work for me at all. idk if it was me or the game that was bugged. When I asked about it, people said don't bother because toddlers can just grab a plate of adult food from the counter like everyone else. But the toddler wanted special highchair foods. Oh, it's fine; wants don't matter in TS4.

I think probably one of my own biggest gripes with the TS2 toddler system is the cribs. My rl children didn't really use cribs; they just slept in my bed with me and then moved to a toddler bed that was right up against my bed. My kids didn't need help in and out of bed since they learned to walk, though of course I still needed to help them go to bed at night because a toddler just lying down and sleeping without complaint or protest is something I do not believe happens irl. Just thinking about this now...maybe what I'd really need is a mod that makes toddlers get hungry (a lot?) faster but tired a lot slower. Hmm.

There's probably a point where making things realistic really would sap too much fun out of the game. I'm just not sure where that would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
There is a mod for that,

oh darn. It doesn't work for custom fridges. I use a couple of those quite regularly in my game and while I see there are instructions on how to edit each custom fridge...that's a heck of a lot of work.
Alchemist
#2238 Old 27th May 2020 at 6:10 AM
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2239 Old 27th May 2020 at 7:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosawyn
What species were they? What planet did they come from? (Where can I find some?)


You will kill me, but my daughter started sleeping 6 hours at night from 4 months and my son about the same at 4 1/2 months, and they lengthed that fairly quickly. Not sure exactly when but 10-12 hours sometime between 9-12 months.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Scholar
#2240 Old 27th May 2020 at 7:17 AM
I don't consider toddler beds cheating, since they exist irl, and I don't use eternity bottles. It's not that difficult to make a bunch of smart milk to conveniently store in their catalog. But then you remember smart milk doesn't exist irl either. So isn't that cheating? But it's vanilla!

The point is, there's so much in the game that isn't realistic, so that shouldn't necessarily determine what is cheating or not. Regardless, everyone plays their game how they want to, there is no "you should/shouldn't" here.

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Instructor
#2241 Old 27th May 2020 at 7:48 AM
I don't see the point in bathing toddlers when the diaper table brings their hygiene to full quickly. I don't bother to potty train them though because it's only 4 days and they usually don't need more than a couple of diaper changes a day. Now that I finally have Pets, I might see how the basic pet beds work for toddlers out of curiosity but they won't be allowed to eat pet food. That's something I find icky. Not sure how I'll handle a household that has both a pet and a toddler but I'll figure it out when I get such a household. I'm still in testing 'hood mode to make sure all my new Pets-related mods work well before I go back to my real 'hoods.
Scholar
#2242 Old 27th May 2020 at 7:55 AM
I rarely bathe my pets (oops Freudian slip, I meant toddlers) either. If I've potty trained them, I just put the potty in their inventory if they're starting to get low on hygiene, so they can't use it and I let them pee themselves so they can have a diaper change. That brings the hygiene (and social) up in just a couple seconds. It takes longer with baths, although the social goes up full if you do that, so I guess there's a point if both their hygiene AND social is very low.

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Scholar
#2243 Old 27th May 2020 at 8:33 AM
If you do want to use pet beds, there is a mod here somewhere that increases the energy they give to toddlers. I actually have that installed, because while I do want to have the option to have a toddler raised almost entirely on pet objects if their parents are evil/neglectful enough, I'm not *quite* that masochistic.
Alchemist
#2244 Old 27th May 2020 at 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMposiast
I don't see the point in bathing toddlers when the diaper table brings their hygiene to full quickly. I don't bother to potty train them though because it's only 4 days and they usually don't need more than a couple of diaper changes a day. Now that I finally have Pets, I might see how the basic pet beds work for toddlers out of curiosity but they won't be allowed to eat pet food. That's something I find icky. Not sure how I'll handle a household that has both a pet and a toddler but I'll figure it out when I get such a household. I'm still in testing 'hood mode to make sure all my new Pets-related mods work well before I go back to my real 'hoods.


I think Jfade's Auto-refilling pet bowl keeps toddlers away https://sims.jfade.com/index.php-ca...1&subcat=1.html
There are recolors around for it too.
Mad Poster
#2245 Old 27th May 2020 at 7:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMposiast
I don't bother to potty train them though because it's only 4 days and they usually don't need more than a couple of diaper changes a day.

If you use simler90's Skill Speed Mod or Badge Speed Mod or both (found here) or the bed-wetting mod from the Simlogical page Annaminna linked a few posts up, the Potty Trained memory or lack of it becomes quite relevant. (There may be other mods that use the memory was well, but those are the ones I know of.) And also even in an unmodded game, toddlers do of course get the LTA points for learning each of their toddler skills and generally they'll want to learn the skills as well, which will give them a decent chunk of aspiration points and a nice mood boost.

Since this thread is about awesome things we found, I'll go ahead and say I highly recommend that Skill Speed Mod and the Slower Cleaning and Slower Repairing mods found at the same link. I haven't had a chance to try the Badge Speed Mod yet since it's newer, but it says it works the same as the skill one but for badges

And just as a bonus since we're on the subject, I also use simmodder's Harder Repair (found here) and I love it in combination with Slower Repairing.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2246 Old 28th May 2020 at 1:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMposiast
I don't see the point in bathing toddlers when the diaper table brings their hygiene to full quickly. I don't bother to potty train them though because it's only 4 days and they usually don't need more than a couple of diaper changes a day.


I have a rule for training, and that is at least one sim has to have the want unless they are highly motivated which is 8 points or more. (cleaning+Activity-playfulness)
occasionally I have a toddler who does not get trained because of my rules. That kid is frequently miserable. Once it reaches red they stop playing to back and up cry then once the use their nappy they cry more including going into the parent's bedroom and waking them up. I sit there hoping to goodness someone rolls a potty training want. The only benefit is the bed wetting mod.

As to bathing, it raises social and hygiene but its also cute and its quality parent-toddler time together, that alone makes it an action worth doing.

Of course having the toddler age span be 8 days brings things into focus more, but even 4 days I doubt I would play any differently. Unlike many I love toddlers. I don't play to get through it, I actually enjoy them as a life stage. Part of this is playing slowly. I think anyone who uses a lot of speed 2-3 probably does not enjoy toddlers because that speed doesn't gell well with toddlers or pregnant sims.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#2247 Old 28th May 2020 at 3:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
Once it reaches red they stop playing to back and up cry then once the use their nappy they cry more including going into the parent's bedroom and waking them up. I sit there hoping to goodness someone rolls a potty training want.

That is very interesting. I think the only times I've ever had a TS2 toddler use their diaper is when they are in the process of aging into a toddler from an infant so I've never seen them get upset about it. In TS4, tho, they're perfectly calm about it. I had my TS4 toddle sitting there on the couch eating his breakfast (he woke up very hungry) and as soon as his bladder meter got to half he went ahead and put "use diaper" into his multitasking queue and happily went on eating. Of course his dad wasn't too happy about it because apparently diapers stink. But it sure didn't bother the toddler.
Instructor
#2248 Old 28th May 2020 at 4:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annaminna
I think Jfade's Auto-refilling pet bowl keeps toddlers away https://sims.jfade.com/index.php-ca...1&subcat=1.html
There are recolors around for it too.
I have that already, as part of my first Pets downloading spree. It works great, didn't know it also kept toddlers away.

Pideli, you're right, bathing helps if the toddler has low social. I do bathe a toddler once in a great while if the house has a bathtub, but generally I keep their social up by having an older sim give them attention. Or if there are two toddlers, or an older child sibling, they can play on the dollhouse together.

Rosawyn, I don't have the EP with the Lifetime Aspiration Meter. Think you need Freetime at least for that, right? From what I've read, LTAs are an alternative to the LTW for achieving permaplat, correct? In which case I'd be nerfing it anyway as I don't enjoy playing permaplat sims very much.
Mad Poster
#2249 Old 28th May 2020 at 5:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMposiast
Rosawyn, I don't have the EP with the Lifetime Aspiration Meter. Think you need Freetime at least for that, right? From what I've read, LTAs are an alternative to the LTW for achieving permaplat, correct? In which case I'd be nerfing it anyway as I don't enjoy playing permaplat sims very much.

It does come with FT. And you might be interested in this mod if you don't already have it (Fragile Permaplat by Cyjon): http://cyjon.net/node/345
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#2250 Old 28th May 2020 at 8:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosawyn
It does come with FT. And you might be interested in this mod if you don't already have it (Fragile Permaplat by Cyjon): http://cyjon.net/node/345


And slower gain
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s...ic,12387.0.html

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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