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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 10th Jun 2020 at 7:05 AM
Default Milkshape Issue
I wasn't sure where to put this, so I decided to put it here as it relates to meshing. I'm working on a 4T2 conversion, and there's this weird issue that occurs when I do certain actions. If I do anything with the vertices, there's this one vertex that likes to snap together with another vertex at random. This vertex continues to snap together with other vertices until a certain point, in which when I delete the problem vertex, there are holes all over. This also happens if I import another mesh.

Even if I don't select anything and just press delete, these vertices will continue to snap together until it reaches the end.

I've tried to delete the problem vertex before anything happens, but then it snaps to the other vertex anyway. If I then delete that vertex, it snaps to the next one, and so on. I can't find anything that talks about this issue when I search for it, so I'm dropping it here. Please let me know if I have to post images or anything!
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Forum Resident
#2 Old 10th Jun 2020 at 10:23 AM
That’s really weird. Does this occur in whatever mesh or only this particular one? If it occurs in whatever mesh, I’m thinking (if no one else has any suggestions) you could try re-installing milkshape. If it’s that particular mesh, perhaps you could try re-do the conversion?
Mad Poster
#3 Old 10th Jun 2020 at 10:47 AM
Try to save and reopen the file, or opening it from an earlier point. Occasionally Milkshape can bug out a bit, but this tends to help.
Also make sure there aren't any MIlkshape "open file" windows in the background. They can sometimes make Milkshape behave a bit strange.
In "Model" tab, make sure the "Auto tool" and "Snap to grid" are not ticked. Not sure if they can have anything to say, but sometimes leaving a particular box ticked can have consequences.
Also make sure you don't have any stuck keys on your keyboard. I struggled a lot with a on-and-off stuck CTRL key on my previous laptop, and that caused a whole heap of random shortcut issues. The weld and snap tools have shortcuts (Ctrl + W and S I think) so that's a possibility.

Uploading pictures, possibly also the file in question could potentially be of help.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#4 Old 11th Jun 2020 at 12:19 AM
I noticed that the original mesh from 4 does not have this problem. My converted version to 3 (a TSRW object) also lacks this problem. However, I decided to check my SMD version of The Sims 3 version of the file, and it shares this issue.

Actually... it seems like this problem only affects .smd files and my one .ms3d and not .wso files from my testing. My .wso version of the file isn't affected by this problem, but my .smd is. I exported the file twice, and both of these files share this issue. I checked "Vertex Weights" when exporting to a .smd file because that's what my guide is telling me.

Here is an image from my .wso file for reference of the vertex's original position:


Here is an image from the .ms3d file where I was deleting skin from areas. I deleted managed to delete skin from areas, but the vertex merged with another one. This is after one vertex-affecting action:


I suppose it affects my .ms3d file because I saved it from a .smd? I believe it might have something to do with my .smd files. I don't know why.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 11th Jun 2020 at 1:53 AM
That area does look like it has some other issues as well. Maybe the mesh is having issues with so many edges going to one vertex, and it also looks like there are some normal issues, possibly some mixed front- and back-facing faces in there as well. Is the black area the outside or inside of the mesh? If it's the outside (and it's not a fully black texture), you have a problem, because the normals are borked.

It couls absolutely be the SMD files, if they show up like this.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#6 Old 11th Jun 2020 at 2:16 AM
It's the inside of the mesh, so I guess normals aren't messed up.

I did run the mesh through the DirectX Mesh tool to reduce polys when I first put the mesh into Milkshape. That might be the cause of the mixed faces?
Test Subject
Original Poster
#7 Old 11th Jun 2020 at 7:18 AM
I actually solved this myself! I opened up the original .wso file and deleted the problem vertex. It makes no difference to the outside of the mesh because it's on the inside, actually. It seemed to be an extra vertex. Whenever I exported as a .smd, the weird snapping-together stuff never happened.

Though... now I have another problem. Whenever I export my reference file as a .wso file, all the bones suddenly disappear. All I'm left with is a single-center joint and that's it. This is becoming increasingly aggravating, but oh well. Should I create another thread to address this issue or no?
Mad Poster
#8 Old 11th Jun 2020 at 11:51 AM
You can keep it in the same thread (keeps it less cluttered).

About the exporting issue, are you sure you've read all the information you need to know in regards to the SMD files? It could be you've skipped over something important that for some reason is making the mesh behave weirdly. It's my understanding that the WSO/SMD steps are only there to rotate the arms and/or transfer the weights, so you shouldn't do anything to the mesh itself (except rotating the joints?) until you've successfully transferred it over to a TS2 skeleton.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#9 Old 11th Jun 2020 at 6:29 PM
Oh, that's the thing. All of my existing .wso files' bones suddenly disappeared and left a single joint in the center of the mesh. Whenever I use my existing AF body file and export that as a TSRW in order to restore the skeleton, all the bones suddenly disappear. When I check vertex weights, it appears like the vertices are still weighted to the bones that are missing?

Yeah, I had followed the video tutorial step-by-step, only using the s3 .smd to rotate the arms, then proceeding to change the s3 skeleton to the s2 one using the mesh tool kit. My current .smd's bones had disappeared, so I had thought to redo it.

Here's an image of the body with all the bones intact:


Here's an image of the body exported as a TSRW object:
Test Subject
Original Poster
#10 Old 15th Jun 2020 at 7:47 AM
Hey. I've been a bit busy, so if anyone's tracking this thread or something for updates, I'm sorry!

I tried reinstalling Milkshape to fix the issue, but nothing happened. I also tried to reinstall the plugins, but nothing changed either. Whenever I use the Mesh Toolkit, it's not as if the rest of the bones were invisible? Only the center joint carries over like expected. I only have this issue with .wso / TSRW files. Every other type of file exports skeletons fine.

Does anyone have any other ideas? Perhaps I could've accidentally checked something somewhere... or maybe I'm just misunderstanding the entire thing. I'm not entirely sure! I'm out of ideas, personally. (Maybe some force really doesn't want me doing conversions, lol.)
Mad Poster
#11 Old 15th Jun 2020 at 7:33 PM
Just wondering, but which version of Milkshape are you using? 1.8.4 or 1.8.5? Could be a problem in relation to the plugins if they're made for one version and aren't working properly with the other.

I also seem to remember something about having to rename the auskel bone to get them to import properly (there should be a step about this if I'm not mistaken), so make sure you've followed that. It's been a while since I tried any of the conversion tutorials, so I can't remember exactly where that step is.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#12 Old 15th Jun 2020 at 11:35 PM
I use 1.8.5 Beta 1. I looked at the TSRW website, and I don't see anything about the plugins. None of the actual wikis are loading for me (which is rather problematic...) If there's anything about plugins being incompatible with a certain version of Milkshape, anyone, please let me know!

I tried your suggestion, and it doesn't seem to have worked, sadly. I remember this being addressed in the tutorial I was following, and since I remembered I hadn't been doing it, I hadn't done it. Though, it appears as if nothing has changed either way. I tried this with 3 different meshes to see if only one mesh had the problem and all do. Two of these files were .5gd files, and the other was a .smd if that's relevant. None of the files had a joint named "auskel" prior to exporting as a .wso. I had named the .5gd ones, "123456" and the .smd "FullSkeleton."
Mad Poster
#13 Old 15th Jun 2020 at 11:53 PM
Just so we're on the same page, which tutorial(s) are you using?

Also, does anyone know if Rented-Space has a username here on MTS? If anyone can figure this out it's probably them...
Test Subject
Original Poster
#14 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 12:26 AM
I'm using MDP's tutorial.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 12:39 AM Last edited by simmer22 : 16th Jun 2020 at 12:57 AM.
I'm not sure if it helps, but have you tried this one? https://serenity-fall.dreamwidth.org/1366.html - it could help having it all in written format, so you're sure you're not skipping a step. I know it says TS3 to TS2, but I think a lot of the steps are similar. It's mostly the mesh extraction and editing that's the different bit.

It does look like this tutorial has a step that fixes the jumping vertex and problem joints. Could be you can use the tip alongside MDP's tutorial.

Nintendolover made a written one here:
https://nintendolover13.tumblr.com/...othing-tutorial (Main)
https://nintendolover13.tumblr.com/...othing-tutorial (A)
https://nintendolover13.tumblr.com/...othing-tutorial (B)
(Continues with the identical parts of Serenity-fall's 3t2 tutorial)
Test Subject
Original Poster
#16 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 12:57 AM
When I was looking at that tutorial, at first, I was like, "Hm. I already did all of this."

... However, this sentence caught my eye, "Start a new in milkshape and import your reference mesh first as a unimesh; this will lay down the skeleton base we need, then import the new TSRW file you made with Cmar’s tool."

That fact that .wso files don't transfer skeletons must have been something I had forgotten. I must have also forgotten that to get the skeleton, you import a mesh with the skeleton first. I honestly feel really silly right now, but I guess that stems from a lack of understanding of how the Mesh Toolkit works! Thank you for showing me that tutorial!!
Mad Poster
#17 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 1:06 AM
It's always that tiny "insignificant" thing, is it not
Sometimes it helps going over everything a few extra times. It really does.


(Yesterday I wondered why a pose I'd made wasn't interacting properly with an item that appeared to be in the right place. Couldn't figure out why. Tried every possible combination of pose and item ingame, but nothing worked. Opened up the file this morning. Had one look at it, and... I had moved the item )
Test Subject
Original Poster
#18 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 1:19 AM
Yeah, I think I should focus more on my projects so the information sticks. I tend to multitask between playing games, talking to friends, drawing, and doing the model stuff. Oh well! This will be a pretty memorable mistake, and I'm sure I won't forget as easily!

Oh man, I think I'd make the same mistake. I think I'll hold off on making poses for now, mostly because I know barely anything about them. However, they are interesting, and I'd like to dip my toes into the water later on.
Mad Poster
#19 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 1:55 AM Last edited by simmer22 : 16th Jun 2020 at 12:40 PM.
I've dipped my toes into the water the other way around lately (making some stuff for TS4 - I wish poses (poseboxes, really) were as easy to make for TS2, but there's a lot of differences between S4S and SimPE... One is so user-friendly you barely need a tutorial to use it - though Blender is not... the other almost demands an engineering degree to extract a mesh, or so it can feel like if you're a beginner), but I do prefer working with TS2.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#20 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 2:11 AM
It's cool to see what others create for the games. I haven't played TS4 much, mainly because I don't have any of the expansion packs and also because on every video I watched of it, people in the comments were like, "TS2 is way better! It has so many things in it even without mods!" I haven't turned back since, though I did adore CAS. Also, I appreciate Body Shop a lot, mainly because I theme my sims off my characters, thus I can easily customize eyes and hairs to fit them! SimPE has always appeared daunting to me, though as I continue to make conversions / other related things, I hope I can become more comfortable with it. (also I'm not sure why typing that in links to another thread, so I don't know how to prevent that?)
Mad Poster
#21 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 12:48 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 16th Jun 2020 at 6:41 PM.
TS2 is better. More to do, more interactions, sims have more personality, storytelling is a lot easier (while making posepacks is way easier in TS4, posing sims is not - it's a nightmare! There's no way to move sims except moving the teleporter thingy, so if you want to move the sim, you have to move the teleporter and re-pose the sim (and all the other sims). If you want to move a prop just a little bit... all sims jump out of their poses, and you have to start all over again. And again. And again. And you're limited to one face expression per pose, so that's fun... I never thought I'd miss TS2 face morphs, but after doing so many uninspired face poses, there ya go. At least in TS2 I can skip that step and do it ingame instead).

Bodyshop is really neat, and while SimPE can seem overwhelming at first, it does get easier to use the more you use it.

(Writing certain words on the forum triggers auto links, they have dotted ... lines under them, so if I write SimPE it will link you to the nearest place you can get the SimPE download. Same if I write backup or some other word with an autolink, but I can't remember any others at the moment. If you manually add a link, the link will have a full ___ line under it, like so: Link to Download area).
Test Subject
Original Poster
#22 Old 16th Jun 2020 at 6:06 PM
(Ohh, I see! That's funky.)

Yeah, agreed. The animations are just filled with way more life. Honestly, before I even discovered any of the various blogs and websites, I thought the creator community for this game was dead. I was glad to be proven wrong!

Wow, that TS4 stuff sounds hard. When I played that game, I didn't even know posepacks were a thing, haha.
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