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The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#26 Old 4th Jan 2005 at 2:05 AM
You're right, the MATD doesn't link to the GMDC, did I say so?
The SHPE file undoubtedly points to a GMND and holds information about the parts the object is composed of.
These parts are used, in different ways, by the GMND (that associates a MATD to each part), and by the GMDC (that contains the 3D mesh of the various parts). That's why, I think, the parts listed in the GMND must be the same that are in the GMDC.
Nearly alive
#27 Old 4th Jan 2005 at 1:04 PM
No, I didn`t say you said they do.

That reply was more to Delphy to tell him that when a new GMDC file is created it must have all the parts which are listed in the SHPE file. Missing out one part from the GMDC has the effect I said. (or it seems so from my tests anyway)

As for the GMND, with some objects it doesn`t seem to list all the parts which are in the GMDC (the cornucopia for example only lists the groundshadow in the GMND, while others list all parts.)
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
#28 Old 4th Jan 2005 at 2:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by numenor
RGiles, would you please post the MATD for that iridescent sphere, so I can study it? Or maybe you can describe what MATD values have to be changed to have such an effect.

This was very simple. I extracted the MATD for glass car windows. Then I used OW to create a new color package for the sphere. I replaced the MATD in the color package with the glass MATD (of course changing it's name and TGI to match the old one). That made a nice crystal ball.

Then I imported a texture image to replace the reflection map that was used on the glass. I think it was called "outdoordaytime-envcube". I put my own small texture imag in that reflection slot, so my swirling texture is reflected onto the image. Changing that reflection map can produce a lot of different effects, especially different metals.

Here's the package. Sorry for the pathetic file name. I hadn't meant to share it.

RG
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Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
#29 Old 4th Jan 2005 at 2:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miche
As for the GMND, with some objects it doesn`t seem to list all the parts which are in the GMDC (the cornucopia for example only lists the groundshadow in the GMND, while others list all parts.)

The GMND lists all subdivisions for which retexturing is possible. If the object has only one color option be default, the subdivisions don't need to be listed in the GMND, since that list is just an instruction to the game to display options. We added that list to the GMNDs of objects that didn't have it to create the CEP. (Sorry if you knew this already, of course. I have no idea who had the patience to follow our previous thread.)

RG
Lab Assistant
#30 Old 6th Jan 2005 at 11:57 PM Last edited by HoneyB : 7th Jan 2005 at 1:12 AM.
I am trying to make the glass on the Matte and Glass Door dark. Just so u know what I've done so far I created a package for the door itself. Then I created a second package for the glass & changed the stdMatDiffCoef to 0,0,0 to make the glass dark. I then used both sets of files to make a combined package (door & glass). The thing is that I see the door image just fine but the glass is still the same as the original door.

What am I missing?

Edit: Nevermind...I wasn't missing anything. It worked! I was trying to use the design tool to look for the different color glass but it didn't show the dark glass option. But when I went to place a door from scratch, the option was there for the dark glass:



The dark glass is now an option for all my doors even though it is packaged with the black one. If I want to offer just the dark glass option without the door, I can package it seperately & it should work right?

Thank u again for all the help!

-B
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#31 Old 7th Jan 2005 at 2:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyB
The dark glass is now an option for all my doors even though it is packaged with the black one. If I want to offer just the dark glass option without the door, I can package it seperately & it should work right?

Thank u again for all the help!

-B


I'm glad that it worked! I always suggest to create 1 package for 1 recolourable part, so you can share only the glass. If you *really* want to make a package that contains bot the wooden part ant the glass, you can select *both* parts when creating the recolour package (by CTRL-clicking on the subset names in the listbox until all of them are highlighted).
Try some more combination of the stdMatDiffCoef and/or the stdMatEmissiveCoef: even if the stdMatEmissiveCoef values are intended to "lit up" an object, low values can add a warm/cold feeling to your glass.

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Alchemist
#32 Old 7th Jan 2005 at 7:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by numenor
Another very important function of the MATD is to hold information about the blend mode.
Among the other things, the blending lets the user alter the look of the object, adding to the texture transparency, color, brightness, light/shadow patterns and so on.


I have found this thread quite 'illuminating'.
I found that if you specify blend, but don't supply the right type of texture for that, you get a black/blue object, the same as if you had no texture image at all.
That took me a while to track down, as I spent some time trying to figure out a naming issue that wasn't there. When I changed it from blend to none, everything worked well.
<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#33 Old 7th Jan 2005 at 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wes_h
I have found this thread quite 'illuminating'.
I found that if you specify blend, but don't supply the right type of texture for that, you get a black/blue object, the same as if you had no texture image at all.
That took me a while to track down, as I spent some time trying to figure out a naming issue that wasn't there. When I changed it from blend to none, everything worked well.
<* Wes *>


That's very interesting. So, the "stdMatAlphaBlendMode=blend" *requires* an actual texture to work correctly. Thanks!

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Field Researcher
#34 Old 11th Jan 2005 at 2:57 PM
Thank you all for this conversation. You gave me enough courage to go into the Material Description and start playing around, and in the process, I discovered how to fix several hanging lamps that I'd almost tossed ~ they glowed green when they were lit. That wouldn't be so bad if they weren't red lamps.

Changing the stdMatEmissiveCoef to a warm-red RGB (0.8,0.09,0) solved the problem, and I now have lamps that glow red when lit.

Setting those RGB values to a matching color will let you light a lamp in any appropriate hue. This affects only the color of the lampshade, not the color of light cast on walls, floors, or other objects.
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#35 Old 11th Jan 2005 at 3:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairfish
...they glowed green when they were lit. That wouldn't be so bad if they weren't red lamps.

LOL!

Quote:
Changing the stdMatEmissiveCoef to a warm-red RGB (0.8,0.09,0) solved the problem, and I now have lamps that glow red when lit. Setting those RGB values to a matching color will let you light a lamp in any appropriate hue.

I'm so glad that even an academic discussion like this could lead to positive practical results...

Quote:
This affects only the color of the lampshade, not the color of light cast on walls, floors, or other objects.

Take a look at THIS THREAD: it's quite old, but I think it's very interesting and useful!

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Lab Assistant
#36 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 3:25 PM
I had a question about using the alpha of an object to create transparency.

I made some glass panels on a door (no RG it's not THAT door thank goodness! LOL) so I turned the blend on but I noticed that the frame now blends as well & I can see it slightly coming through the edge of the door...not overly bad but enough for me to notice. So I opened the file for the Moroccan Screen because I know that parts of it are transparent & I studied it. I saw that while the alpha had black sections to make it see-through, the blend mode was set to "None".

How can parts of an object be transparent with the blend mode set to none?

-B
Test Subject
#37 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 3:51 PM
This topic has since changed directions, but I'll say it anyway. It is just a thought and I have no idea if is even remotely true, but in another thread, someone (was it wes_h?) that was trying to figure out the process of how the slice of cake was removed from the whole. I haven't read that thread in a while, so i don't know if he figured it out, but maybe that BHAV that Inge Jones mentioned is how it is done. The BHAV turns part of the cake nvisible, giving the appearance a slice was taken. I dunno, just an idea that crossed my mind.

§
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
#38 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 4:18 PM
Trombones,
That conversation was me talking to myself about how the cake slices disappear. I found where it's done in the BHAVs. But I still think I'm missing part of it.

HoneyB,
I just cloned the screen so I could look at all the MATDs and textures. Some of them are "blend" and some of them are "none" and I don't know why. We just don't know enough about these yet. My guess (and I really do mean guess) is that if there is a texture image with transparency, "none" will give you binary alpha (you'd have visible and invisible, but nothing in between) and "blend" will give you a full range of semi-transparent states. The sceeens with then more complex patterns in terms of the transparency use the "blend" mode. So it's a guess, but not really an answer.

RG
Test Subject
#39 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 4:20 PM
Ok, I couldn't remember who it was. I thought it might have been you, but I couldn't remember. I'm glad you figured most of it out.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#40 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 4:39 PM
Could explain why the cheap shower only responded to render alpha 0 for full transparency and anything else was opaque.
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#41 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 5:04 PM
Inge, this question has still no response, for me. I can only suppose that the Render Alpha operator serves to another purpose: make an object "vanish", applying a transparent texture to it.

Anyway, make some tests with the semi-transparent shower I've made (see attached file).
I've used a DXT3 texture, with a proper alpha channel.
In the alpha image, the white parts makes the texture look solid, while the grey parts create a semi-transparent effect (there are no black parts, that would look completely transparent).
In the MATD, the stdMatAlphaBlendMode is set to "blend".

If you compare it with the original shower, you'll see that the alpha channel is completely white (texture completely solid) and the stdMatAlphaBlendMode is set to "none".

Maybe the Render Alpha will have different results with a semi-transparent object...
Screenshots
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One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#42 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 5:10 PM Last edited by Inge Jones : 13th Jan 2005 at 5:30 PM. Reason: Later obsrvation
I've downloaded that and will look at it. It puzzles me that they gave us the render settings in a long integer field if they only needed to be a flag though.

Later... Hmm now when I tried making a shower transparent by importing an alpha channel - I tried doing a completely black one - all that happened is the shower was black in the game. It was some time ago, maybe it was a SimPE problem. I might have tried it just as Quaxi was fixing a bug or something.
Lab Assistant
#43 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 5:31 PM
Ok RG...well that makes sense. But I tried to reproduce the effect that the none blending screen uses on the door but I can't get the transparent parts to be clear without using blend. I'll keep trying different things to see what they do. Thx.

-B
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#44 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 5:37 PM
HoneyB, what door are you working on? A plain wooden door ar a multi-part door? Just to know...
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#45 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 5:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
You ask why 0-255 if it's only a toggle? Well in my time with The Sims I have come across zillions of quirks where I thought "Why on earth did they do it like that?!?!" :D


You told that... :D

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My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


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One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#46 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 5:55 PM
I'm not immune to being bewildered or puzzled though <giggle>
Lab Assistant
#47 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 6:15 PM
Plain wooden Numenor. The Justadoor cheap door.

-B
Administrator of Loverat's Tea and Underpants
#48 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 6:31 PM
B,
Don't forget when you're working on the doors that they all need 2 Material Overrides, one for placement on a straight wall and one for placement on a diagonal wall.

RG
The ModFather
retired moderator
Original Poster
#49 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 7:37 PM
OK, I think I have another bit to add to this MATD "encyclopedia".

The stdMatAlphaTestEnabled should be set to 1 in order to declare that the texture uses an Alpha channel. In this case, the stdMatAlphaBlendMode can be set to none

On the other hand, if we set the stdMatAlphaBlendMode to blend, the game seems not to apply the Alpha channel to the texture, but applies the general blending factors (set in the MATD itself) to the whole texture.

Let's say that stdMatAlphaTestEnabled stands for stdMatAlphaTextureEnabled :D

Anyway, here is what I could do (look at the picture).
Mind that, unlike other more complex doors, in this case the "glass" is just a part of the main texture: it can be made more or less transparent by modifying the "grey" level of the Alpha channel in the texture, but can't be coloured usinf the stdMatDiffCoeff (unless you want to add some colour to the whole door... )
Screenshots

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#50 Old 13th Jan 2005 at 7:43 PM
Ooh those do look good! <slobber>
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