Replies: 28 (Who?), Viewed: 3671 times.
Page 1 of 2
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 12th Jul 2020 at 8:13 PM Last edited by LittleCheshire : 12th Jul 2020 at 8:29 PM.
Default Sims 4 and How They've Handled Traits - Lets Discuss?
Long time no see, MTS. Long time no see.

Anyways, I've been immersing myself in other video games lately while waiting for that sweet sweet RTX 3000 series goodness and I ended up coming right back to The Sims. Honestly, I should've known I would always come back to this game. Besides that though, I played around with Sims 3 a bit before I put it off until my new PC is fully built and decided to float around all things Sims 4. Why? Who knows, I only have the base game and rare is it that I can bring myself to load up the game, but here I am looking around for fresh news and bite-sized pieces of interesting information. Last time I was here I was thoroughly confused and disappointed over the announcement of the Eco Lifestyle expansion pack that I felt should've most definitely been a game pack.

(Still don't understand why expansion packs and game packs are split. What even makes them different?)

I've come to learn that there's a...knitting pack? When people voted on general arts and crafts? That features that should've been in the base game have been added after six whole ass years? And are buggy as all fuck? That a community survey that was put out asking simmers to vote on things they've wanted to see implemented in the base game since the damn beginning? That a fucking reality TV show that is offering up 100,000$ is being made around simming of all things? And it's called fucking Spark'd? What? What.

(Gods, I ask of you: Make this make fuckin' sense.)

But hey, good thing out of all this is that I found out that Carl's Sims Guides has a Youtube channel. I mean, I'm probably late as a bitch to the party but I still think this is neat. Dude also sounds exactly like I thought he would? Very calming. This all brings me to the subject of this post.

Why Are We Getting No New Traits in The Sims 4?


Again, I don't play Sims 4. However, I do often think about buying expansion and game packs to see if it'll reignite my interest in the installment; Hel, maybe even fix some bugs? But then I just keep learning more and more about how this installment has been going and I just...don't understand? Why are Sims 4 players forced to give so much only to get so little in return? The answer is obviously capitalism but still. Still. Only 48 traits in all for the Sims 4 when the Sims 3 has 99? Yes, there is the argument that more expansion/game/stuff packs are coming and those will indeed add more traits, but there's 9 expansion packs and 8 game packs! That's 17 fucking packs! Why the fuck does the Sims 4 have so little traits this far into the installment's lifetime? I dunno, shouldn't planning to have way more packs than the previous installment mean that we should be getting a plethora of traits? Not only this but apparently most of the existing traits don't have much of an effect on the sim or the game, if any? Which...that's worse than bad. A core part of your gameplay is functionally useless? Wow, incredible.

And sure, from this point onward they could make it a point to dump 3-5 traits in expansion or game packs that effect gameplay, but is there even any way they can fully recover from this when existing traits don't do much of anything? Well I mean they can, but that would mean giving out content for free in a patch or whatever and something tells me that they aren't even gonna think about doing that.

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
Advertisement
Instructor
#2 Old 12th Jul 2020 at 8:49 PM
It's simple:

Sims 4 violates a rule that RPGs follow in that it's better to tie your abilities/quirks/traits/whatever to the character itself rather than to items or buffs. If I'm playing an RPG, I expect my character at level 38 to be more capable than he was at level 1, even when he's naked. Example of a game that violates this is Terraria: always kinda annoyed me if I de-equip everything and put a character in a new world, they've gained nothing since all their abilities are tied solely to their equipment and never to the character. (cept health and mana, which are linear progression anyways)

Sims 4 ruined traits because the traits themselves do nothing. They give buffs, and the buffs are the ones with personality. The problem with this is that if I take Romantic as a trait, simply painting a flirty painting, hanging it on the wall and viewing it is superior to the random buff from Flirty. It's something I can do on command at the precise moments I want that moodlet instead of at random. Within moments I can effectively make my sim a Romantic sim just by having the right decor. Moreover, a problem is that a loner and a romantic sim are identical when they have the same buff.

Sims 4 needed traits with permanent effects on the characters instead of a tendency to provide a buff with effects. Without that, they don't feel unique at all....because they factually aren't. The coding from one sim to the next is the same 99.99% of the time and it's only the respective moods that are different from each other. Great example is to put a Loner Sim and a Hates Children Sim in a room filled with people and children's decor. These two have very different grievances, (one hates the crowd, one hates the decor) but function identically since they're both given the Tense mood. Doesn't stop there either: add a jealous sim to the room without a spouse present, add a Loves the Outdoors sim that hasn't been outside in ages, add a Genius that hasn't done anything mentally stimulating lately....they all boil down to the exact same mood and the exact same set of interactions.
Mad Poster
#3 Old 13th Jul 2020 at 2:43 AM
Traits needed to be tied into specific series of autonomous actions for specific sims, less so moods (which all sims can get).

Sims 3 'Dislikes Children' trait:
- Sims with this trait will not enjoy being on lots with children.
- Sims that dislike children will react negatively to talking about children.
- Sims with this trait will often reject social interactions from children.
- Sims with this trait will get a negative moodlet from socializing with children, holding, or taking care of babies.
- Sims with this trait will autonomously use mean interactions on children.
- Sims with this trait will reject the silly face interaction unless the sim is best friends with the said sim.
- Male Sims that dislike children will be "bored" by their wives if they announce that they are pregnant.
- Sims who dislike children will autonomously chastise childish Sims for their behavior as a mean interaction.
- If a birth has taken place somewhere in the neighborhood, Sims who dislike children will talk negatively about the birth when the "Gossip" interaction is used.
- Sims will be able to "Shoo" children.
- Sims are able to "Gripe about Kids". Family-oriented Sims will always interpret this as an "impolite" interaction despite it being "friendly".
https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Dislikes_children

Note that a lot of this governs social actions, which helps characterize a sim- you can definitely feel the #childfree in these sims from time to time!

Sims 4 'Hates Children' trait:
- Sims with this trait get angry from being around a child, even if they're rather far away.
- These Sims will have the "Conception Tension" moodlet after try for a baby.
- These Sims will be tense when pregnant.
- These Sims will be bored while reading a children's book or watching the "Kids Network" TV channel.
- These Sims will become tense from being around toddlers.
- These Sims can use the "Crush Dreams" interaction on toddlers.
- These Sims can smash dollhouses even when not currently angry.
- These Sims get happy whenever they fail in a pregnancy test.
https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Hates_children

Note how most of them are tied to moods- there doesn't seem to be anything governing actions, which I think leads to the main complaints of traits being useless and sims feeling 'samey'.
Scholar
#4 Old 13th Jul 2020 at 7:13 AM
I couldn't care less how many traits there are, because they have little impact, hide the whims and even more less impact. Just fulfilling their aspirations tasks/goals is enough to get them on-top of life.
Theorist
#5 Old 13th Jul 2020 at 7:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citysim
I couldn't care less how many traits there are, because they have little impact ...


That is pretty much how I feel also. The Sims in my game have pretty much acted the same no matter what traits they have. This is 4 and I do not expect to find depth in this version. It is what it is. So I spend my time mostly in 3. I am still under 800 hours played for this version. They could have more traits or better and this still would be a pretty boring version to me.
Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
13th Jul 2020 at 7:56 AM
This message has been deleted by kusurusu.
Instructor
#6 Old 13th Jul 2020 at 2:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kusurusu
I see you're evaluating traits based on lists found on Wikia/Fandom. Have you ever considered browsing actual game files?


No browsing the game files needed, I can attest that the traits are reliant on buffs in TS4 just from my limited time playing.

Just because it's on a fan site, doesn't mean the information is incorrect. Traits in TS3 provide different behavioral patterns between Sims based on which ones they have. Some can be superfluous, like great kisser, but overall they do have an impact.

In TS4, they provide buffs that make you more sad, tense, angry, etc. The emotion states are the same for every Sim. Having a "hates children" Sim doesn't make them inherently more rude towards children or dismissive. Just tense. And apparently they can destroy dollhouses, wow.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
13th Jul 2020 at 3:21 PM
This message has been deleted by kusurusu.
Mad Poster
#7 Old 13th Jul 2020 at 8:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kusurusu
Maybe not incorrect but incomplete. One thing I found out about Hates Children is that they wake up from baby crying even if it's not their own (no matter their energy level).

Isn't that, or at least should be, a thing that every Sim does regardless whether they have a trait or not? Cuz you know, crying => noise => noise is loud => loudness wakes you up?

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Smeg Head
#8 Old 13th Jul 2020 at 10:07 PM
TS4 has traits?!!!! Since when?!!!!

No wonder I've been playing this game so wrong and so bland for six years!

Oh, wait a minute... Traits? Are you taking about those poxy, almost worthless mood buff generator things you give adult sims three of in Cas, that make sims randomly mood change from an extremely limited set of moods, that in the most part don't really do much different except minor, random, inconsequential, unbalanced interactions when they may yell at someone one minute, yet be hugging them the next, except for moods that are designed to kill sims if they overdo it because Maxis thought that was a funny idea we'd love to see time and time again? Are those the Traits you mean?

Okay, Traits.

Damn, I haven't been playing this game all wrong then. It just is that shallow.

Traits

"Give your sim a trait. It can - and probably will - push to kill them. Hardy-har-har." All the gameplay fun you'll ever need. As well as the trait and mood mods to fix them and prevent the inevitable deaths, the Monty Python Ministry of Silly Walks and the random, unbalance behaviour. Yeah, traits, they're all good.

"Become a government informer. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!" Red Dwarf - Back to Reality.

Find all my TS4 mods and lots here: Main Website - simsasylum.com My Section - coolspear's Mods & Lots
Lab Assistant
DELETED POST
13th Jul 2020 at 11:53 PM
This message has been deleted by kusurusu.
Top Secret Researcher
#9 Old 14th Jul 2020 at 1:24 AM
I'm a newbie to Sims 4 and I find the traits and mood swings so superficial, and inaccurate. An "angry" Sim chatting away quite calmly, a "clingy" toddler wandering away, a boy being mean to his sister one second then helping her with her school project the next. I thought the parenting pack would make interactions deeper, but it appears not. No matter how many times the boy or parent was mean to a sibling/offspring, that kid was perfectly fine.
Scholar
#10 Old 14th Jul 2020 at 3:18 PM
In TS3, I could create sims that would be completely unpleasant to be around at all times. Other sims would HATE them and avoid them, but be drawn to them all the same. In TS4 any two sims can be friends and any two sims can be lovers no matter what they're traits. It makes it feel like playing dolls that I have to decide that Mary Sue is upset when Salim hits on her. If a sim is "Happy," which I can switch on easily with level 2 charisma, then they will happily respond to being hit on. Even Unflirty sims will generally be ok with romantic socials being used on them.

In previous games if you have a sim use romantic socials with someone else in front of their partner, the partner will get upset and might yell at them or go cry or even be angry with the flirt-ee. Skip, Brandi, Mary Sue, and Dan are teens in a study group together. Skip and Brandi are a couple and Mary Sue and Dan are a couple. If Mary Sue and Dan are on the outs and he decides to flirt with Brandi at study group, then Skip and Mary Sue should be upset with him, right? Not in TS4. In TS4, Skip and Mary Sue are just fine with Dan flirting with Brandi during study group and continue doing their homework. In TS3 or TS2, Skip and Mary Sue would be upset with Brandi and Dan.

I miss having aspirations tied to careers and hobbies. I miss whims having heft. Maxing a skill, a career, having a baby, or getting engaged feel really hollow when the sim doesn't care about it and can't tell anyone. When my sims don't have whims about dating, getting married, having kids, or changing careers it feels like none of it really matters.

The Mayflies Legacy- a Random Legacy Story
Test Subject
#11 Old 15th Jul 2020 at 4:29 AM
It does feel like a massive step back, and I rarely actually play the game because every character and interaction feels so samey and hollow, just action/environment = one of a very limited number of moodlets that do almost nothing aside from affecting which facial expression your sim has while they go about their day normally. In terms of gameplay and autonomous behavior my snobbish, loner vampire is indistinguishable from his flirty, outgoing husband is indistinguishable from the paranoid, trailer-dwelling old cat lady from strangerville is indistinguishable from the garbage fire hedonistic rockstar from Del Sol (who I recreated as closely as I could from sims 3 only to find that he's incredibly boring now, I can't even deliberately manufacture the kind of shenanigans he used to get into).

The whole "trait = random moodlet or environmental response that is also a moodlet > your sim goes about their regular day with a different facial expression than usual" system makes sims somehow feel both weirdly omniscient and dumb as a bag of rocks, both in the least interesting way possible, and relationships familial, romantic or otherwise mean almost nothing because everyone just lives in their own moodlet bubble and doesn't even appear to care. The only reason I even play 4 is basically because it can run on my computer + I like the art style better and I mostly just make cc instead of play these days anyway.

It feels like EA somehow believes people play the sims in the same way children in tv commercials play with dolls. It's all excruciatingly safe and vanilla and almost impossible for anything to go unexpectedly.

Also, the fact that any sim is just about equally likely to do any action doesn't help with the blandness (like, a geeky/goofball/mean sim should be way more likely to autonomously use the "troll teh forums" action than a good/outdoors loving/vegetarian sim, and one with the "hates children" trait seems like they should avoid interactions with children, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all)
Lab Assistant
#12 Old 15th Jul 2020 at 11:16 AM Last edited by kiddypatches : 15th Jul 2020 at 8:35 PM.
I agree. No matter what traits you give Sims in 4, they all end up being overly happy with that stupid grin 95% of the time. Traits have no consequences whatsoever. The moodlets are weak and just superficial. What's the point of traits if they don't affect anything significantly? Sims 3 traits may have given moodlets as well but at least the moodlets didn't overrun everything else and the traits still impacted the game. Don't get me wrong, I do like playing Sims 4 when I can get into it, but it's so frustrating how no matter what traits I give my sims, they always are in a happy or fine mood.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#13 Old 16th Jul 2020 at 3:43 AM
Well, gotta say, this thread has been intriguing to read through. I'm now curious as to people's thoughts on whether EA/Maxis could improve the traits system? Well, of course they could improve it. The survey they put out asking simmers if they wanted fucking story progression and the like proves that they in fact can do it. But how would you suggest they go about it? Or have you just kind of given up on the Sims 4, which seems to be a common sentiment on this thread? Me though, I'm just watching this show till the end, really. I want to see how people look back on this installment of the franchise once all the pieces have been painstakingly handed over to be finally put together.

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
Scholar
#14 Old 16th Jul 2020 at 3:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleCheshire
Well, gotta say, this thread has been intriguing to read through. I'm now curious as to people's thoughts on whether EA/Maxis could improve the traits system? Well, of course they could improve it. The survey they put out asking simmers if they wanted fucking story progression and the like proves that they in fact can do it. But how would you suggest they go about it? Or have you just kind of given up on the Sims 4, which seems to be a common sentiment on this thread? Me though, I'm just watching this show till the end, really. I want to see how people look back on this installment of the franchise once all the pieces have been painstakingly handed over to be finally put together.


This would require an overhaul of both the traits themselves and the way emotions override traits. It would be awesome if they would do that. But that is a big task and I am not sure if there is enough incentive for EA to do this. I have given up for now, but the moment EA would come up with some interesting changes to the core gameplay (in this case, traits) I would be very interested. But for the active playerbase there might be more pressing issues EA have to deal with first. Like fixing what is broken atm.

But outside of this website I don't see many people complaining about gameplay issues in TS4 anymore. This is why I think there is not much incentive for EA to make big changes in TS4.
Smeg Head
#15 Old 16th Jul 2020 at 5:10 AM
Traits, in the most part, issue specialized buffs to sims. Be they buffs that appear on screen, or the vast majority hidden. Buffs, in the most part, issue/open Static Commodities. Static Commodities are the set (static) weights that push sims to do certain things. Most Interaction XMLs come with sets of Static Commodities relative to the interaction, relative to the trait>buff>static commodities>push to do. The Static Commodities on Interaction XMLs can also be further multiplied (beyond their static value) to really, really push specific sims to do the specific interactions.

But then there are skills thrown into the mix. Most Interaction XMLs, especially anything to do with crafting, will also have skill level bans and allowances. Then there is also the Maxis system of whitelisting and blacklisting all sorts of other buffs, traits and moods to tighten up or loosen up specific sims doing the given interactions.

For one example, it does make it that if you were to give a sim all the musical traits in the world and leave them to their own devices, hoping to witness the next Mozart bloom autonomously before your very eyes, that sim may never actually touch a musical instrument ever until you first command them to get that skill level up and running. Thereafter the autonomy should kick in more regularly and that system of trait>buff>static commodity + skill start = now that's more like it!

But this is only one example, and related to crafting. Sims do a heck of a lot more than that, and to see those traits you give them work more efficiently, more finessed, especially in the way they socialize and their characteristic behaviours being more steadfast and continuously unique, (The big tamale everyone has a general gripe with.) Maxis would certainly have to do a lot more work, a great deal more caveats, regarding the whitelisting and blacklisting of traits>buffs>static commodities + skills + moods, for all social interactions and object interactions. Essentially doubling the amount of coding on Interaction XMLs for this individual sim characteristic finessing.

I know I do my fair share of complaining about Maxis. But if you imagine, you take one buff, or one mood, or one skill - on one skill level, and try to definitively break that down on any given Interaction XML, for all the times an individual sim can be more robust and steadfast in their characteristics to hold true more often, it's like that mathematical thing you do with taking one grain of rice on a chess board. And for each new square on the board, you double the amount of rice. How much rice by the final square? How many caveats of whitelisting and blacklisting can an XML hold before it collapses into LE meltdown due to the sheer weight of on-off-on-off-on-off confusion? And that's just for one sim trait-defined type!!! What about all the other sims and their traits?

But sure, we know Maxis can do better, simply because they have done so in the past. But I think because they jammed TS4 with so many sim interactions - four times as much as all the other iterations put together, was that not their original boast? - (Albeit most of them are the same damn thing.) This has caused the evolution of traits>buffs>static commodities + skills + moods = interactions, to be like... (I'll borrow from Bilbo Baggins here.) "Too little butter spread over too much toast." Albeit most of that extra toast is all the same damn thing only with a different name.

If caveats be rice grains, how many needed on the final square to finesses/fix all that?!

Doable, but a lot of damn rice. More than EA Maxis want to cook up. Their favourite food is too little butter for too much toast. No time or taste for rice.

"Become a government informer. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!" Red Dwarf - Back to Reality.

Find all my TS4 mods and lots here: Main Website - simsasylum.com My Section - coolspear's Mods & Lots
Top Secret Researcher
#16 Old 16th Jul 2020 at 5:03 PM
Generally speaking, I prefer the points system of 2 to the traits of 3 - and 3's trait system is about a thousand times better than 4's.
Mad Poster
#17 Old 16th Jul 2020 at 6:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusannaG
Generally speaking, I prefer the points system of 2 to the traits of 3 - and 3's trait system is about a thousand times better than 4's.

IMO I've always maintained that a combination of the two would have been best- the points system to flesh out basic characteristics that work better as a gradient, and the traits system to add particular quirks and characteristics.

I.e. Everyone is on a sliding scale in terms of neatness, but something like vegetarianism is mostly a binary yes-no sort of thing.

With this in mind, a TS2-sort of attraction system could have worked, with the points system acting as the base, and the traits acting as turn-ons and turn-offs.
Scholar
#18 Old 16th Jul 2020 at 7:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleCheshire
Well, gotta say, this thread has been intriguing to read through. I'm now curious as to people's thoughts on whether EA/Maxis could improve the traits system? Well, of course they could improve it. The survey they put out asking simmers if they wanted fucking story progression and the like proves that they in fact can do it. But how would you suggest they go about it? Or have you just kind of given up on the Sims 4, which seems to be a common sentiment on this thread? Me though, I'm just watching this show till the end, really. I want to see how people look back on this installment of the franchise once all the pieces have been painstakingly handed over to be finally put together.



Just because I have problems with the game, doesn't mean I don't find it worth playing. Quite the contrary, I'm having a lot of fun and I'm debating on what DLC I want to buy while their summer sale is on. For me making traits matter, requires a few things:

1. Traits need to lead to changed behavior. Outgoing sims have a faster social need decay than other sims. Romantic sims do too, but they need to be weighted towards performing autonomous romantic socials. Self-Assured sims need to have a skill bonus to social skills as well as a greater likelihood of feeling confident.

2. Whims related to traits need to be bigger and need to have bigger rewards. Family Oriented sims need to have wishes related to interacting with their family and expanding it no matter what their aspiration is. Meet Someone New is worth 25pts, "Have a Baby" was a 5000 pt wish in TS3. The least amount of LTH pts in TS3 was 100 and it was for things like "pick a flower."

3. In TS2 and TS3 sims with compatible traits/interests got real bonuses towards friendship and would be excited about that and their relationship meter would jump up a lot upon discovery. Similarly if they discovered an opposite trait their relationship would take a big hit. If Brandi is cheerful and Cassandra is gloomy, that doesn't effect their friendship at all. IRL, Brandi might find Cassandra a drag and Cassandra might find Brandi annoying. It would take a lot of work for people with such different outlooks on life to become friends.

The Mayflies Legacy- a Random Legacy Story
Scholar
#19 Old 19th Jul 2020 at 11:53 AM
I would almost enjoy the traits in Sims 4 more, if you could make an adult Sim in CAS have more than three.
Even if I were to cut down my personality to the most prominent features, it'd be difficult to pick three and still get something remotely close to what I am actually like, and not just a bland copy that maybe, maybe acts differently from the next Sim.

If only lifetime happiness points allowed you to get another trait, you know, like in Sims 3, where getting a degree allowed you to do that.

As it is, I know I end up making SIms traits based more on what I think would be advantageous (if I make a homeless Sim, giving them glutton is pretty good because they can get food out of trash cans, and eat food regardless of quality or if it stinks) and less about what I think is more of a personality.
Lab Assistant
#20 Old 3rd Aug 2020 at 9:38 PM
Been some time I played TS4 so I might be wrong but what about the hot headed trait? I tried playing a sim with it and it's ridiculous how some small inconvenience can get the sim angry for the rest of the day like WTF BRO
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#21 Old 24th Mar 2021 at 1:58 PM
1.) I'm back.

2.) I'm bringing this thread specifically back because I've heard that The Sims Team have taken the time to improve some base game traits? Has anyone tested this and is able to confirm that they've been improved? I mean, I would hope that when The Sims Team say that they've improved traits that they mean traits now affect the autonomy of the sims.

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
Instructor
#22 Old 24th Mar 2021 at 4:27 PM
Suggest you look here for people who actually play it.

https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/di...ovements#latest
Scholar
#23 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 2:34 AM
Looks to me as if they went from being caricatures because of their emotions to being caricatures because of their traits. Left to autonomy, sims do not come alive, they become flanderized versions of what the player intends them to be. (I play without autonomy, but unfortunately conversations are an exception to the rule and override my setting).

I think the problem is that sims have zero situational awareness. I have mean and goofball sim, one of my main characters, and he is the reason I won't patch anytime soon, because under the new system he will insult and prank his husband even worse than now, he'll antagonize his boss and the governor of Michigan and as a storytelling player I'd then have to jail him.
What we need is some sort of framework similar to the timed events, lets call is "situation". A situation could be "workplace", "outing", "crime scene", "protest" and so on. It would define what behaviour is appropriate and what not. Police and secret service sims at crime scenes would get different pushes than civillians, teachers different pushes than parents in an "afterschool club" situation.

In addition to pushing certain behaviour the game also needs to nuke inappropriate behaviour of the kind that a person with at least a modicum of social skills would recognize as big red flags. My mischief/mean sim is a mature adult, he wouldn't just handbuzzer prank his superior in a "workplace" situation, but maybe in a "staff outing" one.

The club system could have been a good start, and I often wish the rivalries and alliances would carry over to normal life outside club outings.

Anyway, I'm writing into the void, that's not the kind of game they want to make. But that's what smarter sims would mean to me: acting with surrounding awareness, not follow every instinct.
Lab Assistant
#24 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 5:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki
Looks to me as if they went from being caricatures because of their emotions to being caricatures because of their traits. Left to autonomy, sims do not come alive, they become flanderized versions of what the player intends them to be. (I play without autonomy, but unfortunately conversations are an exception to the rule and override my setting). . . .


Some time ago in another thread I basically wrote that a player must use an extreme amount of imagination to play the sims 4. I received several disagreements on that. I wish I knew why they disagreed. Perhaps they didn't understand what I meant. But, as you said, the sims are caricatures that Maxis wants you to believe are like actual people. But due to the lack of personality and situation awareness and other factors, they CAN'T act like real people, so we must IMAGINE they're being like real people and play accordingly. As you said, a mischievous subordinate would not hand-buzzer his boss except in a non-businesslike situation - so, we must IMAGINE that at work, the subordinate is close enough to his boss that he could do it and get away with it. Yes, it's stupid, it's unrealistic, but many people play their game this way and enjoy the hell out of it.

Lately, I've started my game, gone to some households, and find the sims there extremely ANGRY. Why are they angry? Sometimes the game tells me, but most times it doesn't. Would most people be so angry (lasting up to 3 or 4 hours!) over nothing? Well, the sims do.

Such is the life of a sim. We must IMAGINE it different.

Expect poison from standing water. - Walter Blake
Scholar
#25 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 9:24 PM Last edited by Enki : 25th Mar 2021 at 11:09 PM.
I may have been one of those disagreers if you sounded as if having to use imagination to enjoy Sims 4 was a downside or design flaw. In this case my apologies! I may have been oversensititve, because I often feel my playstyle getting dismissed as writing a dollhouse story (it isn't, that's two different pairs of shoes and I do both in the game, although generally in different saves) and marked as wrong.

It's not that I would have trouble imagining what would happen next in the handbuzzing example, in fact, since the boss is a sim of mine, too, I know exactly how she'd react and if it's a one-time occurence I'd call it a cool storyhook. After all, we all slip now and then, and for a Mean/Goofball sim it is still believeable. But Mean and Goofball seem to be tuned in a way now that they kick in almost constantly (from hearsay, haven't patched yet). At this point all the devs have achieved is alienating their fans (me) and those players who want the game to tell them a story, because they want an engaging story, not a comedy.

EDIT: Uh, correction. I just read the new posts at the official forums and they like it. I rest my case

EDIT 2: On second thought, my sims are more than their traits. If the autonomous conversations become too strange, then I'll just swap out the offending traits for neutral ones. The sim used in my example also has elements of a cat lover, family oriented, glutton, adeventurous and loves the outdoors, only they were not defining enough that I'd made them his main traits. With two of these (or cc ones that do absolutely nothing) he'll act self-preservingly while in the hands of the A.I., and when I control him he'll live out his darker sides.
Page 1 of 2
Back to top