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#1 Old 8th May 2015 at 1:26 AM
Default Simming Christians - Kia ora
Hi, to anyone who reads this
I have created this thread as I can see that the older ones are months and years ago from their last replies.
With such a large number of Simmers there are bound to be many who believe in God our heavenly father, and the teaching of the Holy Spirit inspired Bible.

this is what I plan to be the new "hello" thread. Any issues that you would like fellow Christians to address you should post along with your greeting.
I do this because I currently know only one other Christian Simmer. AndrewGloria

Issues I think worth addressing:
Origins (created or evolved etc)
The Fall (who's fault was it?, what kind of fruit was on the tree, why the death penalty?)
The Flood (Fossilization, specie stacking in the Ark. Was it Global or local?)
Biblical accuracy (Is it truly the word of God or of man?, historical connections)
The Resurrection (what Jesus Christ, the Son of man went through)
Sims (Influences in the game, how do they affect our relationship with God and other people)

Thank you for taking the time to read this post.
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#2 Old 8th May 2015 at 3:03 AM
Those are some very controversial issues so everyone will have to be respectful of other's opinions and not let this degenerate into useless arguments.

My thoughts:
Origins (created or evolved etc)
Evolution - God could have used any method to create, I see no problem with using science to discover how. I believe the creation account was an overview of a process way too complicated and too long to explain to Moses (who had no concept of 'billions of year' and 'genetic mutation'). It was a story the people of the time period would understand but still true in the greater context.

The Fall (who's fault was it?, what kind of fruit was on the tree, why the death penalty?)
Man in general caused the fall. I believe the Adam/Eve story is an allegory. If man would now sin, no telling how much sin he would commit if immortal. Look how bad the people were before the flood and how God decided to shorten their lifespan in consequence.

The Flood (Fossilization, specie stacking in the Ark. Was it Global or local?)
Most likely local. The word 'world' can also mean 'land', as in the 'land' surrounding Noah and in other places the 'land of Israel'. Plus the Bible is full of hyperbole.

Biblical accuracy (Is it truly the word of God or of man?, historical connections)
Word of God, but written by men. The message is true, but the details like place names, spellings, and sometimes dates are not necessarily correct all the time.

The Resurrection (what Jesus Christ, the Son of man went through)
I believe it happened.

Sims (Influences in the game, how do they affect our relationship with God and other people)
Not at all in my case. It's a game, just a game, a pleasurable diversion from life no worse than reading a book or watching a movie (more fun though - in my opinion). For the most part, religion does not exist in my game. The exceptions are one sim is a pastor because it goes with a certain storyline (complete Thornbirds rip-off by the way) and one family lives in an abandoned church.
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#3 Old 8th May 2015 at 4:53 AM
I do not wish to get into debates, friendly or otherwise, I did just want to recommend listening to David Berlinski. I don't think he officially labels himself anything but I'd think if he had to be placed into a category it would be agnostic. Very wise man. I wish more people were like him.

God bless.


Truth will not fear scrutiny.
Mad Poster
#4 Old 8th May 2015 at 1:49 PM
Hi! I'm new to this Group, though I've been on MTS for about two and a half years. I'm sure I'll be familiar to those of you who play TS2, but for the rest of you, I live on the Sims 2 discussion forum and usually post there several times a day. I've been a Christian (albeit not a very good one) for somewhat longer than I've been a Simmer. In some ways my Christian beliefs are not dissimilar to venusking's: I believe absolutely in the historical truth of the resurrection. The historical accuracy of other things in scripture, especially in Genesis is less important to me, but I am at least open to the possibility of the creationists being right. At school I became sceptical even about Newtonian physics when our experimental results didn't bear out what our physics teacher was telling us. So it's logical to be sceptical about Darwinism too. I used to believe in it mainly because I liked nice stories about dinosaurs! I'd say my attitude to such matters now is largely agnostic. Whatever the truth of them, it's a very long time ago, and not really relevant to my daily life. Whether the world is 6,500 years old or billions of years old, either way it's an awful lot older than I am. I really don't get why it's so important to some people. Interesting, yes, but not directly relevant.

Snufflepaws, I didn't know about David Berlinski, so I looked him up on Wikipedia. He seems to be a proponent of intelligent design without coming from a Christian or religious perspective at all. Yes, that is interesting; perhaps we've all been too ready to accept Darwinian survival of the fittest as fact.

As for the impact of Christianity on The Sims and vice versa, that's really why I came to this group. Sims2Christain posted on the Sims 2 forum about witches, and mentioned her concerns about getting her Sims involved in the occult and whether that was acceptable to God. That seemed to upset some members there, and she removed her remarks about her beliefs. I thought that was a pity, so I suggested coming to the Christians group as it wouldn't be off-topic here. Personally I've never been attracted to the occult in any way, but there are other things in my game, that are likely to offend some Christians, and possibly offend God too. Like a lot of pre-marital and gay woohoo. I think I'll start a separate thread about that, but part of my solution has been to introduce a church into Veronaville, and try to deal with some of those issues there. There's a little bit about my church on my Simlbr here and here.

[EDIT] I seem to be assuming that Sims2Christain is female, but her/his profile doesn't actually say. When I joined MTS I thought I had to say which I was. Could you correct me Sims2Christain if I'm wrong?

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
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#5 Old 8th May 2015 at 5:13 PM
To clarify - I do not wish to debate either, even in a friendly way. The OP wanted thoughts so I gave my thoughts and brief reasons behind those thoughts. I am open to hearing other people's beliefs with the knowledge that I will not agree with everyone on everything. That's fine with me. I'm not going to fight for my viewpoint or attempt to persuade others to my side. On most of the issues, we're not going to really know for sure until we are no longer here! I just like to converse with other believers.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 8th May 2015 at 9:16 PM
venusking, I hope it didn't come across that I was trying to debate, far less argue with you. I merely mentioned you because my thoughts were so similar to yours, and I didn't want to repeat what you'd already said, probably far more eloquently than I could. My posts are long enough without that!!

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
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Original Poster
#7 Old 8th May 2015 at 10:28 PM Last edited by Sims2Christain : 9th May 2015 at 12:02 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewGloria
I seem to be assuming that Sims2Christain is female, but her/his profile doesn't actually say. When I joined MTS I thought I had to say which I was. Could you correct me Sims2Christain if I'm wrong?


Male
I am not easily offended but what you just did was not even on the "offending Sims2Christain scale".

It is okay for Christians to believe that we evolved because nether evolution or one week creation can be proven as they are historical sciences of which no one alive today has observed.
But like all science theories they have to be measured against the facts (The Bible and science). They are here we get our answers and interpretaions from.

Plus the Bible states that we need to believe with all our heart mind and soul that Christ is Lord and we will be saved, so I expect to see you all after our own deaths and resurrections.:-)
Believeing in Creatiomism, Evolutionary origins, the big bang or whatever doesn't stop us from being given eternal salvation. Neither does my sinful addiction to slightly Occultic things (almost entirely on Sims) though it does damage my personal relationship with the Lord.

Debating isn't always fun. I am probably the odd ball of the group taking Genesis as literal.

AndrewGloria I just created that thread for you so you don't have to make it.

We should seperate each issue into several threads assuming that is okay.

Good to see people can find this thread.
I write too much
Scholar
#8 Old 9th May 2015 at 3:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewGloria
Snufflepaws, I didn't know about David Berlinski, so I looked him up on Wikipedia. He seems to be a proponent of intelligent design without coming from a Christian or religious perspective at all. Yes, that is interesting; perhaps we've all been too ready to accept Darwinian survival of the fittest as fact.


Oh, I wouldn't look to Wikipedia for info. If anything, I'd recommend listening to him talk for a few minutes on Youtube. I don't want to use any offending words, but essentially he'll explain how Darwinian evolution is just as much a faith-based religion as any other, but it is pushed in the schooling system as "scientific fact" for many reasons. My belief is financial interest (i.e. money is the root of all evil) and so that people's attention is drawn away from God, and to believe there is no need for a God (aka an ultimate authority). I recommend Mr. Berlinski because 1) He never actively labels himself anything so one-sidedness isn't a worry, and 2) well, I'll just paste this....

Quote:
"David Berlinski was raised in New York City, educated at Columbia College and received his Pd.D in philosophy from Princeton University. He later become a Fellow of the faculty in mathematics and a post doctoral fellow in molecular biology at Columbia University. He has taught philosophy, mathematics and English at Stanford, Rutgers, Columbia, the Universite de Paris at Jussieu, the University of Puget Sound, the University of Santa Clara, San Jose State University and San Fransisco State University.

He has been a Fellow at both the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis and the Institut Des Hautes Etudes Scientifiques. He is the author of works on systems analysis, differential topology, theoretical biology, analytic philosophy and the philosophy of mathematics, as well as the author of "A Tour of the Calculus", "The Advent of the Algorithm" and "Newton's Gift". Berlinski is currently a Senior Fellow with Discovery Institute."


God bless to all, I'll probably be bowing out now.


Truth will not fear scrutiny.
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Original Poster
#9 Old 9th May 2015 at 5:32 AM Last edited by Sims2Christain : 9th May 2015 at 6:14 AM.
As I stated above, (not intending argument with anyone) Both Evolutionism and Creationism are scientific theories on the origins of existence (historical science).
Neither can be proven by observing a bird's flight or anything. They are what we believe about the beginnings and subsequently now. Historical science isn't really science at all, but faith.
If a theory is accepted by the majority of "scientists" and public it becomes a "scientific fact" even if it can't be proven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venusking
Those are some very controversial issues so everyone will have to be respectful of other's opinions and not let this degenerate into useless arguments.

My thoughts:

Biblical accuracy (Is it truly the word of God or of man?, historical connections)
Word of God, but written by men. The message is true, but the details like place names, spellings, and sometimes dates are not necessarily correct all the time.

The Resurrection (what Jesus Christ, the Son of man went through)
I believe it happened.

Sims (Influences in the game, how do they affect our relationship with God and other people)
Not at all in my case. It's a game, just a game, a pleasurable diversion from life.


you are right with Biblical accuracy and what you think about it. the writers were just as human as we are and are bound to mess up on some details ( like the account of the angels at Christ's tomb, mark 16:4 mentions that the women saw one angel whereas Luke 24:4 mentions both angels were there. both accounts are correct because even though around 20-25 years had passed by the time of writing, and one mentions one angel not two shows pretty much that people forget things over time) Plus we don't know exactly when the books were written, but we had a fair idea due to lineages.

I probably went too deep (and as you said controversial) for some people and so if this causes arguments blame me.

anyway, what topics would you people wish to discuss.
Scholar
#10 Old 9th May 2015 at 9:28 AM
Quote:
If a theory is accepted by the majority of "scientists" and public it becomes a "scientific fact" even if it can't be proven.


I can't tell if you were being serious or sarcastic about that?


Truth will not fear scrutiny.
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#11 Old 9th May 2015 at 11:52 AM
nor can I anymore! oh well.
I think serious, but I can't remember what I had in my mind at the time.
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#12 Old 11th May 2015 at 2:39 PM
AndrewGloria - no, I didn't think you were trying to debate at all. I was referencing the post above yours about not wanting to debate and I was clarifying that I didn't want to either.

I have been on christian boards where arguments get way out of control on things that don't really matter for day to day living. It can get vicious (especially with some of the topics above...and also on the 'end times') which always leaves me dismayed. Anyway, I didn't want this to end up like that. As reasonable people, I think we can discuss things and just agree to disagree. We don't have to change the subject.
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#13 Old 13th May 2015 at 2:26 AM
Viewing this thread tells me that 2 people are viewing.
Me and someone else.
Yet there is no guests viewing at this time or other members.

Jesus said that wherever followers of him meet and pray that he is with them also.

Father
I pray that even though we have differing veiws and come from different places and backgrounds that we may connect with each other here over your word and that you will give us enough compassion and understanding so that any threads in the Christian social group and elsewhere will not degrade into useless sinful arguments as the fallen angels so want. I pray that we do not put a stumbling block in the way of our brothers and sisters in Christ. I pray that we may focus on the things that you have done for us and not on our own hurtful opinions of other people veiws.

Amen
Scholar
#14 Old 13th May 2015 at 3:15 AM
I´d like to adress only this, if that´s okay with you:

Sims (Influences in the game, how do they affect our relationship with God and other people)
Spiritually speaking all my sims are me. Everything I have them do, I am capable of, too - of course in real life I am given the choice to act out or control those urges.
It stands to reason that I will have to stand trial for what happens in my game, just like for every other of my actions and thoughts.
But there is a difference between enjoing a story about people in a warzone and outright enjoying war - just like the author of a crime novel isn´t a criminal herself. So I hope I´ll be asked "What real world issues did you need to come to terms with, Enki, when you had the Athis Empire execute Matthew Picaso?" instead of "Why did you kill Matthew, Enki? I thought you disagreed with the death penalty?".
Since sims are not seperate entities, drowning them in a swimming pool like many simmers enjoy isn´t murder in my book.
Nevertheless I felt cold inside when I lost three gravstones and thus three sims with no hope of bringing them back from the death. The heart doesn´t always listen to the head, after all!

That said, I had trouble playing a historically correct game for a long time. For the longest time my sims always followed made-up religions only, never real-world ones. When I included the Watcher-religion from Sims 3 (that makes the player the god) I felt the need to include a "Study, but don´t worship me!" commandement.
It was easier in my stoneage neighborhood. Somehow there I had no problem with my sims worshipping "Lady Enki the player who gives fertility" along with EA and MAXIS in ORIGIN beyond. It was so over the roof, so obviously a fake, that I didn´t feel bad for it. To the contrary the neighborhood with the Watcher cult in is a very immersive and serious one, so in that neighborhood assuming the mantle of a deity feels wrong.
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#15 Old 13th May 2015 at 4:30 AM
Enki

Will Wright and most if not all of the creators and designers of Sims are atheists so there is nothing wrong with being god in their opinion as he doesn't exist according to them.

It does feel like we're being God in the Sims games. I have felt the same. I just recently killed at least 12 sims three of them were related to my selfsim.
Now I know nothing about the watcher cult you described but I feel as though I have been disobedient to God with the Witches in Sims 2 producing a cult out of them. I have no interest in Occultic things in real life but I do in Sims. You could make the watcher cult fall apart, if it feels so real. The fallen angels can use many tactics to pull people away from God, Parts of Sims can be like that.

These feelings surface from the command "you shall have no other Gods than me" for you, And from the fact that Occult influences reek of the demons (Satan and the third of the angels who fell to Earth) for me. We know that the world is corrupted and dying, and as we live on it so are we, but God has bot given up on us and he never will.

God cares about our struggles. I have asked for forgiveness with my Sims Issues but still play with the Witches, being that I am sinful.
no doubt that you still play Sims even with the I am playing God with these Sims thought.

Why did you get Matthew killed? now Jessica is a window... I mean widow.
I guess that you wanted to understand dictatorships of the negative kind, not that you want to be an powerful dictator who makes widows out of happy couples But I am geussing you wanted to understand what happens in countries where people are killed for their faith, race or not being "prefect"

I hope that this helped you.
Lab Assistant
#16 Old 13th May 2015 at 6:34 AM
Hi, I'm Krinci. I'm 14, Catholic, and emo. Prepare to be mildly irritated by my childish worldview.
I believe in guided evolution, the idea that lifeforms evolved over time, guided by the hand of God
As for the Sims, I feel that, from a religious standpoint, the game serves two purposes.
1. To remind us that if we have trouble managing eight sims, it's impossible for us to comprehend God keeping an eye on 7 billion people
2. To get our anger and general weirdness out of our systems rather than taking it out on our fellow sentient beings.
Nice to meet you.

May your plumbob glow ever green.
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#17 Old 13th May 2015 at 7:17 AM
Krinci

God created time and he isn't bound by it.
We and Sims live in it so it is difficult for us to plan their lives. God has all the time in forever to do everything he needs. But still 7 billion people at least is a lot of people to look after.

By the way if you took the Sims 2 limit of 32767 sims you would need only 213700 neighborhoods or worlds to contain a Sim of everyone alive today.

I am not mildly irritated by your worldview.
I do not believe in Evolution (Speication is what we see, which I believe is a loss of Genetic information from the original created kinds since the Fall ) but I respect your veiws.
Nice to meet you too.
Scholar
#18 Old 15th May 2015 at 3:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims2Christain
It does feel like we're being God in the Sims games.

Actually, that´s not what I feel. My sims experience is like roleplaying with myself or telling a story to myself. I prefer to be outside this story, not a character in it (not a big fan of selfsims, either). But as I wrote before, I consider the sims to be tiny aspects of myself. I am Matthew and I am the man who killed him and I am also everyone else in Desiderata Valley, in the same way that I am pretty much every character from every story I´ve ever written (Unlike in the stories I write, in the Sims games I do not have full control over the flow of the action and I find that very appealing).
Sims 3 Medieval tried to change that by defining the player as the "Watcher" and the Sims as some seperate entities that were supposed to be aware of this watcher. My head KNEW it wasn´t the case, but the game pretended it was too and that was a very creepy feeling. I guess it added to me putting aside that game after a few weeks.
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#19 Old 15th May 2015 at 8:14 AM
Enki

Okay. I know what you mean, sorry that I misunderstood.
I tried to write a book and every character had some element of my life intwined in their own.
And so do Sims, a visual representation of those characters born in our heads.

Being their "watcher or god" makes you feel seperate from them when you created them as visual represention of yourself.
Instead of being you or your thoughts the sims become beings who should worship you instead. Am I on the right track now?

Wow I just completely reiterated what you said and added nothing new. I must be tired.
Scholar
#20 Old 15th May 2015 at 4:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims2Christain
Being their "watcher or god" makes you feel seperate from them when you created them as visual represention of yourself.
Instead of being you or your thoughts the sims become beings who should worship you instead. Am I on the right track now?

English not being my first language I sometimes have trouble putting my thoughts down, especially thoughts that aren´t easy to express in my mother tongue in the first place. But your "Visual interpretations of myself/my story" nails it down well I´m a writer, too (only almost all of my manuscripts were rejected and the only one that was printed sold less than 20 copies) and I experienced how characters seem to demand how a story should enfold and force certain actions. But that doesn´t mean those characters are real, it is only testament to the fact that I have a much more thourough concept of those characters and basic human psychology than I am aware of. I have said things like "Those pushy farmers wrote themselves into the scene AGAIN!", but what really has happened was that while writing I realized how much better that scene would work with said farmers in.

Sims Medieval tried to change that and draw a line between me and the sims. That was disturbing enough, but urging me to set myself up as their god felt downright wrong. In the other sims games the distinction isn´t there. That´s why it was possible for me to set up the EA/Enki/Maxis/Origin "religion" in Sims 2, because I wasn´t pretending to be a deity TO anybody. It stayed in my head and nobody was fooled.
If I suspected that the sims were housing self-aware souls capable of choosing between good and evil I could not play the game anymore. Instead I´d feel responsible to give them the best life possible, explain to them how their world works and prepare them for the afterlife. So I´d be, what, a messenger angel perhaps?
Ah, words, words, words. The gist of it all is that I should simply let Sims Medieval rest in the cupboard if it gets me so worked up

On a side-note, there was a game called "Creatures" before the Sims. In this game the player had to train animals called Norns to get around in their environment. I think you were also supposed to communicate with them, but I never played that game. I´m pretty sure the Norns had no sentience, but the simulation made it appear as if they had. The illusion was too perfect for me to comfortably handle it.
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#21 Old 16th May 2015 at 2:02 AM
I made one of my witch Sims have a more normal everyday outfit (the one she had before) so her household seemed more like a woman and her pet cat not a witch and her feline familiar even though that was exactly what they were. I did that because i felt that the good-bad system of witches in Sims 2 diverges into salvation by another way than through Christ. (what should I expect! the game was designed by atheists who believe that we make our own definitions of good and evil).

I tried to write a book, hit 150 pages or so, it descended into cliche madness. I may try to go back to it one day. It has a Christian tone to it, involving dinosaurs, space, Earth and a massive earthquake.
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#22 Old 16th May 2015 at 4:25 AM
Hi, I am Tish... (Strong opinionated Christian and supporter of Jewish/Muslim community as well).

As far as "Origins" goes... Well, as I see it, Evolution is, what it is... a "Theory". There really is enough proof out there, that we did not "evolve" from apes, or single cell organisms. If evolution were true, it would mean that we would be evolving into another species right now... "Hybrid Humans"... or whatever... Take note: a cat is still a cat, a monkey is still a monkey, a mosquito is still a mosquito, and blah blah on and on it goes... Genus/species/Phylum... It has not changed, cat always cat... ect., ect... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE2_2vuDTao (excellent science based!)

"The Fall" Eve was at fault, because she listened to Satan, who promise her that if she ate the apple from the tree, that she would have knowledge and be like God.

"The Flood" I believe Global, as it does say in the bible that "The Earth" was destroyed by water.

"Biblical accuracy" It is the word of God written by man. King James version Bible is not altered and should be the only bible trusted. Other versions alter content, and God did say, Revelation 22:18-19King James Version (KJV) 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"The Resurrection"... The reason we have Eternal Life.

"Sims/Influence" ... Just a game, fun time, to keep me out of trouble, pass time.

Hello, I'm Tiya Marie :)
I Hope You Dance!
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#23 Old 16th May 2015 at 12:38 PM
Hi Tish.

Many of your veiws are the same as mine.
but can I just say that the Bible is the Bible no matter which version it is, most differentiate by pronunciation.
Revelation 22 18-19 is not found solely in The ĶJV it is not a disputed "source manuscript" like the end of mark(?) is.

Also Christ is called the last Adam not the last Eve. It was the first couple of Earth who caused man's downfall together.

TransHumanism. The future "Evolved" state of man, basically larger Eyes and brains. No additional organs or information. IE there is no gain of Genetic information, biological evolution requires the increase of Genetic information.

Natural Selection removes genetic data from a population, this results in loss of functions and could cause organs to become vestigial (useless) as well as seperating a specie into two or more hence it being called Natural Selection(selecting between things).

The idea of TransHumanism is due to the facts that some people thought the brain size (and skull size) indicated how smart you were.
So a bigger brain made you more intelligent and "Evolved" than someone with a smaller brain. That is not true at all.
Ironically one main activist of the "bigger is better" idea had a smaller head than usual.
According to him he should have been dumber than the average person.
Scholar
#24 Old 18th May 2015 at 1:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIYARN007
"The Flood" I believe Global, as it does say in the bible that "The Earth" was destroyed by water.

Yes, definitely global, I believe so, too! There are accounts of the flood to be found in every culture.
It wouldn´t have to be as devasting to animal and plant life as we like to think, though. The flood´s purpose was to anhihilate the sinners (or, of you go by the apocryphae, the human/fallen angel crossbreeds who led mankind down a dangerous and sinful path), not to destroy the ecosystem. God wanted his chosen to survive, so he´ll haven seen to it that the means for their survival were still there after the flood. The texts preserve only the bare minimum we need to know about the event today, they would not go into more detail.
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#25 Old 18th May 2015 at 8:24 AM
The sons of God means humans not angels. I thought that it meant angels too but a older Christian told me that Angels are the servants of God but humans are able to be God's Children. The sons of God were human.

Dinosaur fossils have been found with muscle fibers and fragmented DNA. A dinosaur was also found with Birds in it's stomach. Most land animal fossils are also found in an suffocated state.
These all indicate rapid burial.

The power of water is amazing.

The Whole Ecosystem on Earth was destroyed
yes to punish Sinners, but also as a side effect to save every kind of creature.
They didn't deserve this world, animals never did anything wrong.
We kill any animal larger than us, Cows, Elephants, tigers.
This happened before the flood too
We are responsible for the extinction of the mammoths and most of the dinosaurs.

Noah by faith in God saved the whole of the living creation.
 
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