If you want to delete all of the fence posts, try deleting the FPL record. No need for the LotExpander to have an advanced feature for this.

[Update:]

I wonder what happens if you add a new fence after deleting the FPL?

Do you mean the disappearing street light with "lot corruption"? If yes: the street light in my lot was placed with*out* moveobjects on; it's on the house side of the sidewalk, not on the street side.



I'd like to suggest we forget about this crash .. nobody has been able to reproduce it, is that correct? Plus, not even I managed -- I just built a new house and playtested that, thinking that the crash perhaps only occurs the first time around (because something needs to be reset, or something) .. but everything worked without a hitch this time. This is a lot I shrunk with 1.2.7.7, maybe that makes a difference, maybe it was just a stupid coincidence that my game decided to crash at a seemingly significant point in time, that time.

Also, the first time I upload a row house as a regular download (or anything else on a resized lot) I'll make sure that I have time for a lot of handholding/troubleshooting on the subsequent days .. and I'll label it very clearly as *experimental* and *testers wanted* and *back up first* and all that. And it might be a good idea to make a tutorial/how-to at the same time (I volunteer?), so that any subsequent troubleshooting / collecting issues+workarounds can be conducted in an orderly fashion -- not randomly clogging this thread I mean, which is about more than just that one application .. what do you think?

Not saying this has to happen next weekend -- just that I think problems with row houses / shrunk lots / resized lots are not necessarily problems with the lot expander.


Observations from playtesting:

* When moving in a family, in neighbourhood view, the green border doesn't appear around the lot (although they can afford it just fine) -- probably because the game can't figure out where to draw it? Not a problem I think, just a visual glitch.

* This may be just because I lack sleep, but: I do not recall ever having fixed the portals on this lot -- when I wanted to do that, all 6 portals showed up just fine (but not in the positions where I'd have put them myself <- which indicates that it really wasn't me who repeired them): does the LE fix them all by itself now? If yes, then it did a good job =).

* Played for two days, mailman/paperboy/maid/gardener/pizzagirl arrived and left without problems. On this lot, I put streetlights and fences *after* shrinking the lot (respectively: I can't remember whether or not there were any on the lot before shrinking .. I think not, but I'm not sure anymore) so it's not going to tell us anything about the missing objects problem.

* I found out that it's possible to repaint the outside walls (on the side) with shift-click (repainting the entire house, that is); also it's possible to repaint floortiles on foundations at the border of the lot that way. I have not found a way to *add* floortiles on 1st level at the border of the lot. (With "border of the lot" I mean the last tile on the left+right -- the normally unbuildable area)


Tested in Base Game only (BGS), with the Randoms again (Numenor mini hood), on a lot shrunk from 3x3 to 1x3 with LE 1.2.7.7.

Lot attached; no EPs required, no CC required. It has a small basement too (not on the pics). Have fun and thank you =).


ETA: I'm aware that I'm one version behind again .. I have 1.2.7.8 now (as of 1 minute ago)


ETA, as well: from what I've seen so far, I think it's wise to stick to some rules for redistributing shrunk lots:

* only build what you must before shrinking (add all objects afterwards) .. until the disappearing objects issue is figured out, I mean
* don't put anything on the to-be-deleted part; don't put objects near the lot border
* use the newest version of the LE for shrinking
* check the portals after shrinking
* What can't be changed after shrinking (near the lot border), so it has to be built before:
- Foundations
- Walls
- Halfwalls
- Modular stairs
- Floortiles that are "floating in mid-air" (like the frontmost ones on the front porches of my last lot -- you can see them missing in the "Portals" screenshot; I accidentially deleted them and had to undo plenty to get them back)
- Roofs
- Stages I guess; greenhouses I guess
- Anything at the lot border that relies on moveobjects on / "theoretical" floortiles (the white borders that show where a floor tile would be) -- like for example, off-grid columns or the ceiling trims from ats2 (?) (but that's already a rather exotic issue, not many people use them)
- Forgot something? (note to self: yes: 1. only build on 100% flat lots; 2. be considerate where you put basements)



Edit: Download removed -- reposted here . Please put all further feedback on gameplay issues in that thread, not here.

Same in my game, just hadn't thought to mention it. Happens with other shrunk lots too.

LE should currently fix portal positions with shrinking/expanding, but not with rotated lots. I think.

* I found out that it's possible to repaint the outside walls (on the side) with shift-click (repainting the entire house, that is); also it's possible to repaint floortiles on foundations at the border of the lot that way. I have not found a way to *add* floortiles on 1st level at the border of the lot. (With "border of the lot" I mean the last tile on the left+right -- the normally unbuildable area)

Do you mean you couldn't use SHIFT for those upper floortiles at the edge? So they can't be repainted at all? Or just that they can't be added from scratch to the edge of the grid, which is normal.



This is a useful list to have. Thanks!

Mootilda, I've got the 1278 version, so I'll see how it goes.

I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting a tutorial for. Reporting problems? Shrinking lots?

I'll have to watch for this. The neighborhood should know how big the lot is...

Did you edit and save the lot, then move it in the neighborhood (ie. standard procedure)? If so, then the game should know how much the lot costs.

Yes, I added code to move the portals. However, there can still be issues with the portals' height-above-terrain, etc. when shrinking at the front of the lot.

I assume that you mean the streetlight? Have we seen anything else disappear?

Overall, your list of recommendations looks pretty good.

The price offered on these lots looks fine to me, and the green shadow is the correct size for the lot, just the light green outline is missing.

I've been testing the fences and shrinkage...all good with LE 1278.
I had two lots for each u11 value. I first laid a selection of fences on each, then shrank them all by one on either the left or right side (in pairs). After struct. change and replace, and the catalogue check, no problems at all.

Then I shrank all eight lots from the rear. Again, no fencepost issues, no oddities at all. If the fix was missing something, half these changes should probably have created missing posts.

Photos attached:
one of my test lots, giving an idea what fences I chose (not identical for each lot, but Uni, NL and basegame selection, including halfwalls).

another of one particular lot, with the pictured slope taken from the n'hood road. The template was placed opposite the distorted lot from yesterday, with the distorted road, and took that slope into the template. Interesting.

I haven't expanded the lots, or shrunk from the front, but Mootilda's fix appears to be working fine. Should I do any more?

This testing looks pretty thorough. I think that you've done good code coverage. The only thing that you didn't mention is what EPs you were using. Someone should probably try creating at least one lot with fences using Bon Voyage and expand on three sides. This would be the most likely test to tell us whether any of the later EPs have additional versions of the FPL record. Right now, the only version that I know of is 1.

[Lot -shrinking] - troubleshooting - streetlight?

The street light also occupy an invisible grid for lamp position?
The upper part of the light is occupying an extra grid out.


[fencePostLayer]



The fence post wlll just get omitted while additions can regenerate a new fence post layer file for only the new additions. So, the fence-posts are treated differently from the fence rails.

For those posts on an upper level, there is the value 01 to indicate those fence posts are on the upper level named 01 instead of the ground 00.

So, by editting the fence post layer, one can make fences to postless or even just the posts without new game contents.

The attached pix is based on my conclusion plus infos from the wiki
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=AB4BA572

http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...1&postcount=466
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...7&postcount=499
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...6&postcount=513
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...6&postcount=517
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...6&postcount=532
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...5&postcount=534
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...0&postcount=562

You know, I have just realised we're chasing shadows about the disappearing streetlamps, and it's all my fault.

Of course they disappear! They are sold, with everything else from the buy catalogues, when the family moves out. Build items stay, buy items are sold. Duh.

I think I was confused because streetlamps shouldn't 'belong' to a household, they are neighbourhood things in real life. And because I noticed it when I had been in the middle of a lot of other testing.

Anyway, we can all stop worrying about that, assuming anyone WAS worrying.

By the way, (to direct you all back to a more shining moment of mine) I did the 1278 fencepost testing with UptoNL, in Numenor's MiniGame hood. I don't have BV, so can't do that testing - someone else gets that part.

Sorry for misdirecting everyone.

Oh, and I am suspecting a similar confusion with the report about the green border being missing. Haven't quite thought that out yet.

aelflaed,

Guess I'm already tricked by my ignorance before Holloween...
But true, I didn't worry about that at all ...

good for you to skip BV to avoid all the craps Maxis has delivered. Maybe, after they "can" fix their messes.


[ lot level number]
all,

1. lot level number:
guess I just figured out where the level numbers are at

01. world database: the one after height and width resembling them: (N-1)
02. 3D arrays: the one after height and width resembling them: (N) except instance 14 where (N-1)
03. wall graphs: the one after height and width: (N).

Now, I'm gonna try to see if I can alter a lot level number like that.
No crash so far for an empty lot.

The attached jpg "only-worlddatabase-levelvalue=7" shows an empty lot with just the worlddatabase's level number altered to 7. I can access up to level 7, but probably due to lack of corresponding alterations on the other 2 sets of files. the light-mapping is messed up and lights can light up the scene.

the attached "noWallGraphFix" just shows the walls are built at 0 height, so all the levels are on the ground now . For this setting, I've only altered both the worlddatabase and the 3D arrays only.

I've tried to alter all 3 types, but the results remain the same as the "noWallGraphFix".

So, there're something missing.

However, after relocation, the walls still couldn't form properly, (no graphical components but I'm using easy wall setting.)
Yet, I could make a foundation block. On it, I can build wall segments of 4-click-high.

from the pix of wall1a & b, it shows the grid layers were compressed down to the ground. :D

I now have a theory that the grid layer by default is actually on the ground level and a replicated copy of the first gridlayer of a given lot. It's the build tools that make them separate by 4 or 16 click-high.

Making either flattop or flat bottom false in wall.txt will impair some of the wall build tool limitation. With V1ND1CARE's undo-redo-scripting to by-pass the build tool limits, we can already build walls<4-click-high for at least a level above the ground level. But if we can impair or even control the height by wallgraph and/or 3D arrays, we may be able to get more <4-click-high walls built in >1 level?


[record formats (lots and neighbourhood)]


2.more on fence data:
Wall layer instance 4 has references on the fences as well.

3. the H and W values for wall graphs are not arbitrarily (N+1) but at least >(N+1), for many built lots.

What is the context for this? Is this a freshly shrunk lot in situ, or one you already took to the bin and placed elsewhere? As far as I can tell you still have to enter a shrunk lot, do a token build action, and save again before all the data about its new size is saved. Did you do that before moving to bin?

I may be the only person who's been truly concerned about this; but it's a relief to know that this isn't an odd lot-corruption problem created by the LotExpander shrinking code.

Every crash in expanded / shrunken lots is a concern. Too bad that we have no way to distinguish between crashes caused by the LE and other random EA crashes.

That's fine. If no one else does BV testing, I will do it when I have a chance. You've done most of the work. I'm hoping that the Fence Post Layer is simple enough that EA never has a need to change the record format.

Thanks for determining what that first DWORD is. I'll document it in the LotExpander, for future inclusion in the wiki.

I'm not sure that fence posts without fences will ever display. Otherwise, why didn't they display when we found the bug in the LotExpander? We would have seen both fences without posts and posts without fences.

Anyway, sounds like you agree that there's no reason for the LotExpander to keep this intermittent bug available.

Yes, I'd like to understand this issue better. There must be something which is causing this behavior.

[Lot -shrinking]



I may not appear to worry about that coz from the start I believed that shouldn't be any significant problem at all.
There're multi-tiled objects and blah blah blah. It's best for the users to remove the sims' attentions or functioning with the gonna-be-trimmed-off contents before trimming the lot with LE.
Or, easier data corruption can always be a potential worry just like the craps Maxis did.


[fencePostLayer]



lol, that's just a BTW act...
I only checked with fences on the ground and the first upper level, so I assume the rest will be 02, 03, etc.

Lol, I've to take part of the statement back coz I accidentally missed typing something while I thought I did.

To make the posts-only scene, I'll have to silence the rail parts but not the post part or the fence post layer values.

Something you all probably know, but I haven't read it so I mention:

There is the trellis fence which is different than the others. It is the most expensive fence, is non-selectable with the eyedropper and, important here I think maybe, can be used with other fences--yes, two fences on the same grid line--I've seen it used in conjunction with others on downloaded lots, have not tried it myself. Which all says--this fence is coded differently. I haven't seen it mentioned in any posts, so it may call for a look at it?

I am also curious about--and if I can ever get the LE working on my PC (which I haven't had a crack at it to run the debugging version yet--tomorrow, tomorrow..) I'll give it a try--but if it doesn't work again:

On the row houses--the peaked roof bothers the hell outa me because in reality if a roof was like that there would need to be proper drainage in the resulting middle trough allowing all the rain water to run off (are roofs like that in England?) I would first and foremost compulsively NEED to change them to flat roofs. I like to build a flat roof with a front rise, usually accomplished with one of the fences and the tarpaper look flooring (I'm a fence lover ) giving the building that city-townhouse-finished-front look--do you follow what I'm trying to say?

Ok the point is: if we need to build roofs, fences and floor tiles before the lot is shrunk--how is that going to affect a flat roof? Are the end posts of that 'front rise' going to diappear? and: Can a peaked roof be changed to a flat roof and vice versa after the lot is shrunk?

Thanks for pointing this out. I will do this testing when I test fences in Bon Voyage.

The missing fence posts have been fixed in the latest test version (1.2.7.8).

Good point. I assume that you're talking about roofs which go right to the edge of the lot, into the unbuildable area (otherwise, there's no issue at all). Let me test this.

[Update:]

You can replace a peaked roof with a flat roof, but the last tile around the edge of the lot is unbuildable, so there will be one roof tile missing around the entire edge of the lot. As well, you cannot build a peaked roof at the very edge of the lot using the non-auto roof tools.

Of course, the solution to this is simple: expand the lot, change the roof, shrink the lot again.

Auto roof will allow a new hip roof to be added to the lot, including the unbuildable area at the edge of the lot. So, hip roofs do not need to be added to a lot before shrinking.

The auto peaked roof which creates walls at the ends (is this called a "gabled" roof?) will build the roof, but not the end walls at the edge of the lot.

It might be interesting to play-test these lots through a snow-storm in Seasons and see whether the incomplete roofs protect against the weather. For that matter, has anyone play-tested any of these shrunken lots with weather?

I don't think so. Not if the building reaches right to the edge like with a row house. Then you would be trying to place build items on the last tile which the game will not allow. The player will need to design their house first, build it, then shrink. I did try altering a building after shrinking, and it did not allow me to put anything there, just like it would not have done if the lot started that size. But if you wanted to use someone else's lot, you could always expand it, make your changes, then shrink again.

(lot border stuff)


The lot was ready to play (standard procedure), and actually moving in the sims *worked fine*, also there was nothing wrong with the lot price as far as I can tell.


Same here. Again, the issue I was describing is *not* a gameplay problem, it's only a visual glitch -- the missing outline -- I was probably not expressing myself very clearly yesterday, I was tired =).



This is good news! Thank you =) Yes I was worrying, and much relieved to hear it's not a problem after all.



Actually "how to build walls up to the lot border", which is now indirectly possible by shrinking lots. This has been asked about quite often (there's a sticky, still saying "not possible", over in the Build mode forum).


Regarding "disappearing objects" <- note the quotes

Yes, I meant the streetlights. No, I haven't seen anything else disappear. The whole procedure now seems to be problem-free =).

What you understand as ready to play may not be what I am asking about. By standard procedure, do you mean you had been in to the lot, made a build activity, and saved the lot *after* shrinking and before even trying to move the sims in? I think that needs answering definitely before Mootilda worries the outlines are not showing up properly - cos they may well not do if you didn't do those things.

Yes, I was curious about building right at the edge, as Inge talked about and that answered my question: anything right at the edge will need to be there before the lot is shrunk and can not be changed but can be deleted. This is a bit disappointing in that what if one forgets or wants to change or add some feature? It will require many steps to get it added in. BUT at least it is all possible to get done now which is wonderful!

I have been waiting to read more about the beach wave portals--since I can't get at them myself yet. Inge, have you discovered anymore about how those wave portals function?

Which brings up other questions about portals:

Can portals be added and do portals come/belong in pairs?

If one puts additional exit/enter lot portals, for instance, in the back of the lot instead of on the sidewalk at the front of the lot, would they be used?

With "peaked roof", you mean like the way I built them? Nooo, they're not bothersome! Not in reality, at least .. see pretty pictures below. Totally cute, aren't they? :lovestruc

I have no idea how the drainage works, though .. but I assume it works *some*how, those houses have been around for a couple hundred years. Those are called "Giebelhäuser" (gable houses) in German, they're everywhere between the Baltic Sea and Bohemia. Still available in much uglier contemporary row house style (which is kinda what I was aiming for with my sim interpretation).


Mootilda, thanks for the info re. roofing, spares me some testing =). And yes, roof with wall at ends = gable roof.

It's only the shell you'd have to worry about. It lets you place objects and wallpaper. Hmm maybe you can do the floor and that would let you do a flat roof too. Yes you can definitely lay floor tiles on the ground right up to the edge, so maybe you can on the upper floors too, and that would allow a flat roof - and a parapet too, as fences are also allowed on the edge.



The waves are just an object with animations, seperate from the beach portals. I suppose you could put them anywhere. Did I make buyable ones? If not, would you like me to? The beach portals are like invisible pool ladders with different animations. Nothing magic about them either except they have tests to see if the lot is a beach lot and if it isn't it stops the sim using them. Perhaps I could share a hacked version of that without that test. I have had a hacked one working on a flooded lot that was not officially a beach.



Yes you can add extra portals - I have done so for pedestrians. You have to have at least one of each, but they don't have to be in even numbers. I have pedestrians walking in one corner and out the other, and I have had a car pool arriving under the sea at the back and driving off through a mountain side at the front. You can't tell the sims which portal to use, and normally if you have extra ones the sims will decide which they prefer and still only use the one pair. Basically it's a "set to next", so it usually ends up by finding the same one each time.

I think that it would be wonderful if you could create a tutorial for "how to build walls up to the lot border". For now, perhaps you should point that sticky over here!

Excellent. I'm feeling much better about this whole process. The problems are disappearing, instead of the streetlights and fence posts.

Are you still waiting for people to test fences in different U11 values or are you happy with that now? After yesterdays testing I was hoping to leave this to someone else, but I will do it if you need it.

Yes, that's why I thought of a tutorial in the first place .. that "sticky" is a bit of a mess atm, with info and different questions all over the thread. But I already pointed Numenor over here, I can also add a pointer to the tail of that sticky (hopefully people will see it). I'll do that in a minute.

You can always expand the lot, make the changes, and shrink the lot again. So, I don't think that this is a really big deal.

It really depends upon the type of portal. You must have Car Start / Stop in pairs, as well as Service Start / Stop. However, pedestrian portals and beach portals can be singles.

We haven't tested this completely, but it looks like you can have multiple sets of portals without any problems.

Inge, Thank you for answering my q's!

I'm not sure I understand 'set to next'--I can guess two things: the one they have used before or the sim will use the portal they are near.

If you can get a car entering the back of the lot/out of the water and if it will 'park'--then a functioning boat can be made, yes?

I think I misused 'wave portal' when I meant 'beach portal'... I think So if they're like ladders, it should be easy to move them, yes? And smaller beach lots are just around the corner? I can hardly wait to get LE working on my PC where I can work on shrinking beach lots.

Buyable waves? May be good: I can see wanting them for a lake if the wave intensity can be turned down a bit--slow the animation? If not then I can't imagine a reason to want them--OH! maybe if one added a seawall or rocks on the beach front and wanted realistic breaking of waves on them. Possibly?

Mootilda: No, not a big deal.