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Mutantbunny
Forum Resident
#576 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 5:13 PM Last edited by Mutantbunny : 25th Oct 2007 at 6:02 PM.
I'll investigate. Thanks.

EDIT: no go. All files and folder tried exactly in their proper place and also with dlls copied into the LE folder, updated SimPE etc. No worky for me.

Only option left is to move it to the desktop XP and load the game there (all won't run on my laptop XP--not enough umph), which in reality just isn't doable for me right now because of the location of that machine. So I get to wait.
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Inge Jones
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#577 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 7:16 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Mootilda
I believe that this is very simple. Set the road (U10) to 0x00.

[Update:]

Of course, these lots won't be movable until you set the road back to the correct U10 value, but they should be completely buildable... at least, after deleting the road and sidewalks, and then running the LotExpander to unlock all of the tiles.


Hmm this didn't work as expected. The lot was 3x3, and was a deeply sloped flooded lot. I stretched its backyard to make it 3x6 and used start over on LE, then shrunk the front yard to make it 3x2.

Then I opedned the LTXT in SimPE and set U10=0

When I got back into the lot, it was still in the same place but the difference was it had got a whole lot lower, flattened, and pulled the road down with it.
"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#578 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 9:06 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Mutantbunny
Only option left is to move it to the desktop XP and load the game there (all won't run on my laptop XP--not enough umph), which in reality just isn't doable for me right now because of the location of that machine. So I get to wait.
You shouldn't need to install the game on your XP machine. Just copy the neighborhood - everything that the LotExpander needs should be available through the Browse button. Once you've run the LotExpander, copy the neighborhood back to your Vista machine and run the game there.

I haven't tried this myself on a machine without the game, but I believe that it should work.
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#579 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 9:26 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 25th Oct 2007 at 9:52 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
Hmm this didn't work as expected. The lot was 3x3, and was a deeply sloped flooded lot. I stretched its backyard to make it 3x6 and used start over on LE, then shrunk the front yard to make it 3x2.

Then I opened the LTXT in SimPE and set U10=0

When I got back into the lot, it was still in the same place but the difference was it had got a whole lot lower, flattened, and pulled the road down with it.
When you expanded the lot in the back, the LE expanded the lot straight back from the lowest point (since the lot is sloped down at the back). This means that the back 3 rows are flat, even though the front 3 rows were steeply sloped.

Then you removed the front 4 rows, which contained the entire sloping portion. This should have left you with 2 flat rows which were at the lowest points, since they were expanded out from the back of the original lot. So far, this all seems like expected behavior.

However, the LE moved your lot forward to the road, because of the code that I wrote to keep the lot in its "correct" place in the neighborhood. I could certainly make this movement of the lot optional.

Then, when you set U10 = 0, you told the game that the lot no longer has a road. However, this doesn't actually delete the road or unlock the tiles.

When you ran the game, the game moved the road down to match the lot.

So, this all seems like expected behavior to me, except that I forgot that the LE would move your lot forward to the road after shrinking it.

It seems to me that you are expecting something from the LotExpander which is more easily accomplished by just changing the Top, Left, U10 (and possibly Z) values for your lot in the neighborhood package.
Inge Jones
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#580 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 9:40 PM
Well I don't understand what to do with those values, and I remembered there was a time the LE didn't automatically bring the lot forward to the road, so I wondered if the code was still there, that was still a possible advanced tickbox.

Is the info about Top and Left in this thread somewhere?

How does the game treat a lot differently when you tell it that it doesn't have a road? Does that just free up the road it was on for the benefit of placing another lot?
"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#581 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 10:02 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 25th Oct 2007 at 10:45 PM. Reason: TEST Version now available for download
Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
Well I don't understand what to do with those values, and I remembered there was a time the LE didn't automatically bring the lot forward to the road, so I wondered if the code was still there, that was still a possible advanced tickbox.
I'm putting this option in now (see below). Note that this may not move the lot as you expect. Depending upon the current position of the lot in the neighborhood and it's orientation, the game will automatically decide which corner of the lot will be at the Top Left value specified in the neighborhood, so the lot may still be moved (just as it was in Andi's version).

Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
Is the info about Top and Left in this thread somewhere?
Top and Left are the coordinates of the lot in the neighborhood. Unfortunately, I believe that these coordinates are affected by both the neighborhood rotation (ie, where is 0,0 in the neighborhood) and the Orientation of the lot in the neighborhood. Top, Left, and Orientation are all in the LTXT record in the neighborhood package, along with the U10 value. I have no idea where the neighborhood rotation is stored. However, you should be able to determine this by fooling around with the Top and Left values... decreasing the Top value should move the lot closer to the top of the neighborhood, decreasing the Left value should move the lot closer to the left of the neighborhood. If you haven't rotated your neighborhood since creating it, then this should correspond with the top left corner of your computer monitor.

Quote: Originally posted by Inge Jones
How does the game treat a lot differently when you tell it that it doesn't have a road? Does that just free up the road it was on for the benefit of placing another lot?
I haven't tested this, but it should free up the space which was used by the road, so that you can build on that space. However, you'll still need to unlock the tiles using the unlock tiles feature of the LotExpander.
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#582 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 10:40 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 26th Oct 2007 at 5:14 PM. Reason: Removed TEST version
Default Testers Wanted: Lot Shrinker with Advanced Features
WARNING to everyone:

This is an UNSUPPORTED TEST version of the LotExpander (1.2.7.10). Use at your own risk.

Here is a link to the current supported version of this tool: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1747180

Changes from 1.2.7:

- The LotExpander now has the option of shrinking the size of a lot.
1. Land to be removed must be completely empty of objects and sims. If it is not, shrinking the lot may result in lot corruption and unexpected crashes. If a sim is currently interacting with an object on land which will be deleted, stop your sim and direct them onto the land which will be kept.

2. Shifting a building on a lot has not been implemented. If you shrink in one direction, you cannot grow on the other side of the lot. However, these two operations should be able to be done in two separate runs.
- There is now a Browse button on the Lot Selection screen, to allow you to choose a lot based on lot number or date, rather than name.

- The final screen now has a "Restart" button, which takes you back to the initial screen.

- Resolved an issue where the LotExpander would crash if it couldn't determine the primary neighborhood.

- Temporarily removed the logic which deletes the view of the lot in the neighborhood.

- An intermittent problem with missing fence posts after expanding or shrinking a lot has been fixed.

- The "Over the road" checkbox has been moved to an Advanced Features screen and the following new advanced features have been added: Automatically move portals (Default: Yes); Align lot to road (Default: Yes).

[Update:]

Testing complete. Removed TEST version download.

If you are looking for the TEST version of the LotExpander which includes the ability to shrink a lot, please use version 1.2.7.8:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1801236

There is no need to download a newer version.
Mutantbunny
Forum Resident
#583 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 11:03 PM Last edited by Mutantbunny : 25th Oct 2007 at 11:08 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Mootilda
You shouldn't need to install the game on your XP machine. Just copy the neighborhood - everything that the LotExpander needs should be available through the Browse button. Once you've run the LotExpander, copy the neighborhood back to your Vista machine and run the game there.

I haven't tried this myself on a machine without the game, but I believe that it should work.


Thanks for worrying about me, Mootlda, I appreciate it, but I am SOL here. I'm sure the LE would run without the game installed (because t loads up just fine on my laptop without the game installed)--but what I want to do is screw around with shrinking the beach lots, and I don't want to have to take them back and forth, load the game, shut it down load the game etc. with each edit. IF Vista and XP played nice together on a network, it's be a bit easily but they don't (it works sometimes, but doesn't most of the time.) The PIB (pain in butt) factor will take all the fun out of playing with the lots. I could just install the base and BV on the old pc, but that still leaves the problem of where the pc is located--no place for the keyboard and mouse, no place to sit, no room for a chair, no place to move it, hence it rarely gets booted up. The new monster took it's place.

I'm sure the LE/Vista issue will get resolved sooner or later. Wish I knew more so I could do it, but I don't. So I get to wait until something changes.

Inge, I LOVE your spotted flamingo and portals! I have used so many of Andi's small lots, I have so many portals to relocate . With the ability to move portals, we can now get the taxi stopping right where it should for hotels etc. on all of our lots. Thank you so much for these.
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#584 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 11:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Mutantbunny
Thanks for worrying about me, Mootlda, I appreciate it, but I am SOL here.
I'm so sorry. I will certainly keep this issue in mind and let you know if I can come up with something.

Thanks for the warning about Vista, though... I've been thinking about replacing my internet machine, but I absolutely require my machines to talk with each other. It's terrible that Vista doesn't play nicely with the other operating systems.
Mutantbunny
Forum Resident
#585 Old 25th Oct 2007 at 11:21 PM
The networking problem is well know and I'm sure it'll get fixed asap. Networking is important for businesses and Vista is all about a business setting. All in all, I like Vista much better than I liked XP when I first got it, but there is a learning curve that comes with it--I have most of the bloat under control but there are some things, like the networking, which simply isn't there yet. I haven't checked updates in a month or so either so it may be fixed already and I just don't know it. Have to check that out.... Service Pack one is out I hear but it is still considered buggy, so I am avoiding it.
plasticbox
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#586 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 3:38 AM Last edited by plasticbox : 26th Oct 2007 at 4:16 AM.
Turns out my 7PM crash when playing a resized lot was not just a random hiccup -- someone else has had it too. The good news: s/he secured the error logs. I'll go look whether I can find mine .. sorry I didn't think about that sooner.

Edit. Here it is. I never posted a crash log before .. the txt file called "Sims2Exception 2007.10.19 18.56.30.txt" is what's important, I hope? Also, here's a link to my original description of the crash.

ETA: I think I must have shrunk the first lot (my crash) with 1.2.7.7 (not sure anymore). The second lot (Rascal's crash) was shrunk with 1.2.7.8. Would it make sense to test this again with a 1.2.7.A-shrunk lot?
Attached files:
File Type: zip  Sims2Exception 28.56.30.txt.zip (3.0 KB, 6 downloads) - View custom content
Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Rascal
Lab Assistant
#587 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 3:54 AM
Hi - I've been testing Plasticbox's house and managed to get the same crash at 7pm issue she had. When I reloaded the game I played through to 7pm again and no crash - none at 7am either. So I tried another sim in an identical house next door - no crash.

After posting all this in her house thread I had a brainwave. I tried placing the house in a different neighbourhood and moving in a new sim - again the crash at 7pm - again no crash on replay.

I have all eps up to and including seasons and no stuff packs. My game is definately not hack free - I have a large assortment from MATY and a few bits and pieces from here. I will try this again with no hacks later tonight and report back - but my game is usually very stable.

Plasticbox suggested I upload the error logs here - I'm afraid they mean nothing to me but they may be of use to some you clever folks. Most of the logs txts are empty but I included all of them in case the filenames are any clue.

Thanks so much for all the hard work on this Mootilda and others - I hope this is just a Rascally issue and not a major problem.
Attached files:
File Type: rar  crash logs.rar (21.7 KB, 6 downloads) - View custom content
plasticbox
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#588 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 4:01 AM Last edited by plasticbox : 26th Oct 2007 at 4:18 AM.
I don't think it's the hacks -- when I crashed, it was in an entirely hack-free game. I think you might be onto something with the "different neighbourhood" idea .. I just wondered, on the other channel, why the heck I never crashed again, but I think I was doing all the testing with the same family so it must have been in the same hood.

aelflaed, were you also in the same hood all the time?
Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#589 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 5:27 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 26th Oct 2007 at 6:20 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by plasticbox
ETA: I think I must have shrunk the first lot (my crash) with 1.2.7.7 (not sure anymore). The second lot (Rascal's crash) was shrunk with 1.2.7.8. Would it make sense to test this again with a 1.2.7.A-shrunk lot?
Absolutely NOT. There are no changes in 1.2.7.A which would make any difference at all. There are only two things that have changed:

1) There is now an option to turn off the moving of the portals, requested by Inge.

2) There is now an option to turn off the moving of the lot (so that it touches the road correctly), also requested by Inge. This just goes back to using Andi's old logic, which avoids setting Top and Left in the neighborhoood. If you uncheck this option, your lot may not end up in the correct place in the neighborhood - I'm not at all sure that this is a useful option.

That's it. Honestly nothing that would make any difference at all.

There was a real difference between 1.2.7.7 and 1.2.7.8: I fixed the fence posts.

Quote: Originally posted by plasticbox
Edit. Here it is. I never posted a crash log before .. the txt file called "Sims2Exception 2007.10.19 18.56.30.txt" is what's important, I hope? Also, here's a link to my original description of the crash.
In general, it's probably a good idea to zip up both the .txt and the corresponding .mdmp (mini dump) file.

I'll take a look at the exceptions, but I don't know that there is a lot that I can do about this. Unfortunately, I don't have access to EA's code base.

However, this has convinced me that shrinking lots needs to be an advanced option. While shrinking has been working much better than I feared, it's obviously not perfect.
jeeeeeeeeen
Test Subject
#590 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 5:34 AM
Default i downloaded plasticboxes backdoorlane 24.
just wanted to let you know i downloaded backdoorlane 24 right now and i was really excited.
i turned on the game and opened my practice neighborhood.
the game allowed me to set the lots in my neighborhood.
BUT when i tried entering a lot to check it out it started loading it and then BAM the whole game shut off.
so im removing it.

and just to let you know.
i have all of the expansion packs except seasons and vacation...and im on a mac.
maybe that will help...
good luck tho i think its a great idea.
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#591 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 6:34 AM
Quote: Originally posted by jeeeeeeeeen
just wanted to let you know i downloaded backdoorlane 24 right now and i was really excited.
i turned on the game and opened my practice neighborhood.
the game allowed me to set the lots in my neighborhood.
BUT when i tried entering a lot to check it out it started loading it and then BAM the whole game shut off.
so im removing it.

and just to let you know.
i have all of the expansion packs except seasons and vacation...and im on a mac.
maybe that will help...
good luck tho i think its a great idea.
I don't believe that we've had anyone testing on a mac before... I don't think that the LotExpander will run on a mac because of the .NET requirement.
niol
Mad Poster
#592 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 6:50 AM Last edited by niol : 13th Nov 2007 at 8:55 AM.
Default [Lot -shrinking] - trouble-shooting? [build mode - windows infos][chit-chat]
[Lot -shrinking] - trouble-shooting?

One thing that is sure is that the problem resolves automatically after a second reload.

I had a a crash problem on a built lot after shrinking but the others of the same or similar build are working well with a crash at all.
In that crash case, the lot was run for a few sims days and crashed when saved. That lot ran well and saved well for further runnings and no abnormal behaviour seen since then so far.

Probably, one can use a dummy family to run through the crash, and then "make the sims a townie" or simply let it pass away fast to reserve the furnished or even lower the price.


[build mode - windows infos]

More to add to the windows objects issue, they have 2 graphical sides, north and south. Each requires a mesh and its scenegraphical group. They're at least a 2tile object occupying the grids from both sides.

If they're placed before lot shrinking, quite likely parts of their data may be affected.

I've tried to place them in both directions, they all appear in my base game instances after shrinking. and I've not experienced missing windows so far.

But, I think people with that problem, they can add the windows with the cheat "moveobjects on" after lot shrinking. For the diagonal ones, they can just place the windows on diagonal walls before using that cheat.

In other words for tutorials general users may be advised to add windows and doors after lot shrinking to avoid such potential problem.
This can be true to other multi-tiled objects.


[chit-chat]

Mootilda,

jeeeeeeeeen didn't mean jeeeeeeeeen had run the LE in Mac but plasticbox's lot. I think jeeeeeeeeen could have made her post in the more relevant thread.

As for the window placement thing. No worry, just reload the lot after that. By then, the graphics will be fixed.
Mootilda
Site Helper
Original Poster
#593 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 7:09 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 26th Oct 2007 at 7:15 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by niol
One thing that is sure is that the problem resolves automatically after a second reload.
Good point. I suppose that people should save frequently, just in case.

Quote: Originally posted by niol
But, I think people with that problem, they can add the windows with the cheat "moveobjects on" after lot shrinking. For the diagonal ones, they can just place the windows on diagonal walls before using that cheat.
I tried that, but it wouldn't allow me to place a window on an edge wall.

Quote: Originally posted by niol
I think jeeeeeeeeen could have made her post in the more relevant thread.
I believe that the problem is that plasticbox gave people three different options for reporting problems: the shrinking tutorial, the main LotExpander thread, and here.

[Update:]Nope, four possible places to report problems: also the house download thread.
niol
Mad Poster
#594 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 7:15 AM Last edited by niol : 13th Nov 2007 at 8:53 AM.
Default [build mode - windows infos]
Quote: Originally posted by Mootilda
...
I tried that, but it wouldn't allow me to place a window on an edge wall.


lol,
Quote:
...
Windows can be added back easily with the moveobject on cheat when the object arrow is facing inside the room. Diagonal windows can be made on diagonal walls before the application of the stated cheat.
...

save it and after a lot reload, the graphical will be updated itself.

I've tried this without any problem before posting the method for this case. And that's how I fixed and made use of my first row house indeed. :D
Rascal
Lab Assistant
#595 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 8:31 AM
With further testing I'm afraid I can't establish a consistent set of circumstances that will cause a crash. I've only ever got the crash with the first of these lots in the neighbourhood that I've moved a sim into - but I've twice managed to move a brand new sim into a brand new lot in a brand new test neighbourhood with no crash. The only consistent thing is the time - always 7pm.

I tried the other shrunken lot house Plasticbox uploaded earlier in this thread and managed to get a crash the first time I moved a sim into that one too.

Having my hacks folder in or out doesn't seem to make any difference.

If you are aware this could happen and save prior to 7pm its not really a drama if it only happens once. Trouble is that there is no way to know that it will only happen once.

If you have any bright ideas and want me to test anything else out for you I'm more than willing.
aelflaed
Alchemist
#596 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 8:50 AM Last edited by aelflaed : 19th Nov 2007 at 4:09 AM.
Default testing, rowhouses
Quote:
1. Land to be removed must be completely empty. If it is not, shrinking the lot may result in lot corruption and unexpected crashes. If a sim is currently interacting with an object on land which will be deleted, stop your sim and direct them onto the land which will be kept.


Maybe this note should have something like "If a sim is on the area which will be deleted...", since that was actually what happened on my test lot - there were no objects, and shouldn't be if users have followed the beginning of your warning.

Just a thought.

Re the 7pm crash:
Quote:
aelflaed, were you also in the same hood all the time?


I have played the two test rowhouses, but not the newest (public) one. I have never had a crash.

I think I have used the first lot in Basegame, up to NL and in full game (Up to Seasons, no Pets). Different families each time since the same sims are not available - I didn't use the Randoms at all. I assume different Minigame hoods count as different hoods proper, since they are separate installations. My full-game hood is a custom one. I have used the second house in NL and fullgame.

Is there any test approach that might locate the problem now that we have a further hint? My brain is off right now, but if someone tells me what should be done, I can do it this evening.

I could put another n'hood into the BSG. And maybe I should get back to my own tutorial - well done plasticbox, for getting yours up so fast!

i'll check back here later in case of suggestions.

EDIT - I have realised I can't have used plasticbox's houses in the basegame, since they require NL. Oops.

More edit - one of the houses is basegame, so I DID use one there.
niol
Mad Poster
#597 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 10:34 AM Last edited by niol : 13th Nov 2007 at 8:50 AM.
Default [Lot -shrinking] - precautions
Quote:
...
1. Land to be removed must be completely empty. If it is not, shrinking the lot may result in lot corruption and unexpected crashes. If a sim is currently interacting with an object on land which will be deleted, stop your sim and direct them onto the land which will be kept.


Maybe this note should have something like "If a sim is on the area which will be deleted...", since that was actually what happened on my test lot - there were no objects, and shouldn't be if users have followed the beginning of your warning.

Just a thought.
...

but there're actually many invisible objects in a lot file according to objT instance 0 listing...
just wonder if their positions are also figured out and handled. but the origin point can't be wrong for almost all cases to avoid removal.

If no, we've got a research here
aelflaed
Alchemist
#598 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 11:14 AM Last edited by aelflaed : 19th Nov 2007 at 4:11 AM.
Default rowhouses, testing
I've had a couple more goes at crashing one of those houses, in Minigame and in a fresh neighbourhood. No luck so far. I did discover that the 'dirt' neighbourhood is really ugly.

No pizza confusion with this house - it MUST be the double front doors on the rowhouses. I was able to alter walls and floors. Internal walls were normal, even on the lot edge. Floors and external walls required Shift.

I've had a thought - knowing about the possible 7PM crash, I have been carefully saving my houses sometime before that on the first day. Maybe this is a factor? Would the lack of a save contribute to the crash? Apart from Murphy's Law, I mean.

Has anyone had a 7pm crash when they had saved the house already?
Rascal
Lab Assistant
#599 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 11:46 AM
Murphy's Law - lol. I didn't save once my sims had moved in but I did enter the house in build mode prior to moving them in and altered the staircase and then saved the lot. I didn't do this the second time I got the crash though so that obviously doesn't make a difference. I will have a go at saving once sims are on the lot and see - of course I may not get a crash no matter what I do.

I should add that when I crashed the double row house it was in the same neighbourhood as the first crash (single house) but using a different sim family. So you can get the crash twice in the same neighbourhood if you use a different house. Or maybe that's because they were shrunk with different versions of the lot expander?
Inge Jones
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#600 Old 26th Oct 2007 at 11:47 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Mootilda
- The "Over the road" checkbox has been moved to an Advanced Features screen and the following new advanced features have been added: Automatically move portals (Default: Yes); Align lot to road (Default: Yes).


I was just thinking - is using "over the road" just the same as expanding at the front with the "align to road" option set to no? If so you might save a tickbox.
"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
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