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Alchemist
Original Poster
#176 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 6:44 PM
You are right about the export under the same name, which puzzles me why that should be different. The whole comments are gone, and what is generated appears to be missing the TGI table and the embedded material parts, which would not make for an accurate GEOM export. I will have to investigate why.

However, I could find no problem in what was exported for the UVs, even when overwriting the old file. I made a change, and it was passed to the output, and imported back in. Perhaps the other issues affect the game being willing to overwrite the original mesh with the modded one, since it is missing two important parts.

Please use the export to a different name workaround until I get a chance to see why the exporter acts that way.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Sockpuppet
#177 Old 8th Jun 2011 at 7:08 PM
I prolly made a mistake when reimporting the luv file on the uvmap issue, srry.
All ages/genders have one eye mirrored on the uvmap sharing one texture exept the very high and high lod from teen/adult and elder female(while the medium lod is mapped like all others....)
thats wat im trying to correct(flipping one eye on the uvmap)
Its requested to correct the custom contact lenses created that use a exentric texture

Just started with the elder and those have the save import issue, the importer does load the skcon on those but with a missing bonehash.
Ill ask peeps to test it first before i upload.

When each fixed lod is done i open it with Delphy's simgeomeditor and import the hashes back from the original geom but have no idea if this will fix all the data.
Sockpuppet
#178 Old 9th Jun 2011 at 7:15 AM
lol, this is the result of the missing bonehash

The teen with the left eye still on adult height.
Its strange because both eyes are in the same GEOM and the right eye is correct
Same thing with the elder

Those hashes are linked to all kinds of settings, the shader used on clothing and now this.
Screenshots
Test Subject
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Test Subject
#179 Old 27th Aug 2011 at 1:16 AM Last edited by RiverDaughter : 27th Aug 2011 at 3:20 AM.
I copied all of the files into the proper directory for Win7 64 bit, but Q Mesh is still not showing up. I noticed someone had a problem with this last year, but no one responded to them. Is there something else that's needed? I noticed a broken link to Virtual Runtime 2008, but there are multiple versions of that on the MS site as well. Can anyone clear this up for me please?

Edit: I have Virtual Runtime installed and working properly, it's only the Q Mesh stuff that isn't working, everything else on my computer that requires Virtual Runtime works just fine.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#180 Old 28th Aug 2011 at 3:22 AM
Please post the file path to one of the files. I am using Win 7 64-bit here and it works.

Also, note that qhilw UniMesh and my older plug-ins work back to version 1.7.8, the Q-Mesh plug-ins require MilkShape 1.8.5 (because of a feature added in 1.8.5). They will not load in version 1.8.4 or before. That seems to match your symptoms if you are right about where you put the files.

You should be able to get the update free, it is still listed as Beta, because there were some unrelated features that were not finished, but they released the code early (by request) so we could use it on Sims 3.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Test Subject
#181 Old 29th Aug 2011 at 6:48 AM
The issue was discovered: the trial version will not allow the use of the QMesh plugins. So I'm using Blender instead.
Forum Resident
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Instructor
#182 Old 24th Sep 2011 at 9:31 PM
Hey Wes,

I'm not sure if you'll be able to help, but I haven't found an answer elsewhere. I'm using your Q-Mesh importer to import Sims Medieval meshes into Milkshape. I've had some good sucess, but there are a few issues with bones I'm having. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong with your plug-in, or if it's just differences between TS3 and TSM. From what I can tell it seems GEOM files and BONE files haven't changed in TSM.

My issue is with getting the "Bone hash not in skeleton" message. One model in particular I get eleven separate missing hashes. I have found the hashes in the .skcon file, so I know they exisist. I've tried adding joints, and giving them the hash value, but in game I get the same messed up vertices. I can reassign the messed up vertices to other bones, and fix the issue, but I would like to retain the original bone assignments.

Am I not adding the joint right? I create a joint, and rename it to the hash value "0xDAB32757", named "b__L_Sword" in the .skcon file. I notice no change in Milkshape, or in game after exporting. I also thought maybe I had too many bones (after adding 11 my total was 132), so I renamed existing unused bones to the hash value with the same results.

Do I need to reassign the vertices to the bone? I've noticed Milkshape list a bone weight for the vertices, but not a bone. If so is there a way to find the original hash each vertice was assigned to?

I can give you the files I'm working with if you want them.

Thanks for the plugin. Even if I have to reassign the vertices to different bones it allows me to mesh with TSM meshes.
Sockpuppet
#183 Old 24th Sep 2011 at 10:00 PM
if i remember correct there are max 5 joints missing when importing a TSM GEOM, the rest are slots.(like the sword)
It seems you can not load the GEOM with its correct skeleton like you normally do.
It might be that the Skcon is named diffrent, you should check that.

The missing bones are arround the calves and skirt and should be reassigned if you can not load the correct skeleton.
If you do manage to load the correct skcon then you can rename the joint tmp to a not used joint, like the tongue or cheek bone
Export and load the file again with a TS3 skeleton(or the default one included in the plugin)
and reassigne them to the correct joint
Instructor
#184 Old 25th Sep 2011 at 7:08 PM
Thanks for replying BloomsBase. My .skcon is named correctly to the TGI reference, and I've double checked that I exported the correct BONE file from S3PE. I get no missing skeleton error, but I get the same missing bone hashes as I do when using the default skeleton. It also seems that I get the same bone names, however, those name are valid in the .skcon. I looked through the .skcon, and can verify that the missing hashed names exist there. I notice though that the .skcon contains 152 bone names, although the model seems to load only 121.

I don't quite understand about the renaming of the joints. It sounds like that's preparing it for TS3, but Iwant to use them in TSM. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Wes said in an earlier post that a bone could be added and named the hash value, but he also said if the bone didn't have weights assigned to it, it would not be exported. So, even if I add the new bone I'll still have to assign new vertices to it? Is there anyway to add the bone with the existing vertice weights?
Sockpuppet
#185 Old 26th Sep 2011 at 2:35 AM
If you look at the mesh its vertices in Milkshape you will see that those who do not have a joint assigned do have the correct weight percentage.
I have seen a few as Cocomama is facing the same issues.

So instead of reassigning the vertices its weight only thing you have to do is assigne a joint to it.

You can use Milkshape ANIM function to see wich vertices dont have a joint assigned.
ANIM/select joint/rotate joint
But it is still alot of work...

I am not 100% but you should have a look at these tools:
It didn't work out for me but there is the possibility to edit the rigfile that is used.
Maybe im mistaken but couldn't you rename lets say the tongue joint into the belt/sword or any aother TSM joint so that when you import your mesh those vertices get their joint?
I am fiddling with it right now....
Alchemist
Original Poster
#186 Old 26th Sep 2011 at 2:51 AM
Here is how this works:

When the .skcon file is in the same folder as the mesh file, the plug-in reads the bone positions from it and applies them to the 'standard' 121-joint skeleton that is coded in the plug-in. The .skcon file is not a complete skeleton layout (that is the RIG files) but it does have 'tweak' information that the plug-in uses to relocate the joints. This effect is most noticeable loading child meshes, where without the .skcon file the adult skeleton is used, and the skeleton is twice the size of the mesh. With the .skcon file, the joints match the child height, because the values in the .skcon file were used to adjust what is essentially the same skeleton. This works on adult skeletons, too, but frequently the differences in positions are only evident by looking at the skeleton position values by using something like exporting the file to MilkShape 3D Ascii. Usually, the differences are small and nearly imperceptible.

A GEOM file does not have a whole skeleton in it. It only has the has values of joints that are weighted, and the weights per-vertex. The exporter plug-in does not write .skcon files or RIG file values out. The idea is that these are linked by reference. The reference is read when it is imported, stored in the comments, and written back out on export. While sometimes the EA GEOM files contain an extra joint that is not weighted, I believe that is an anomaly in their exporter script(s).

Look in the group comments for your file for one like this:
Code:
TGIRef03: 00AE6C67 00671F49 00000000 D72292D9

You will see that the 00AE6C67 value is the file type for .skcon, and, that the Group (for this file) was 00671F49 and the instance value was 00000000 D72292D9. Of course, the particular mesh you are working with will have different group and instance values, and the "TGIRef03:" tag might have a different number, such as "00" or "01" and so on. In all the files I examined, the .skcon reference was the last one, but what number it used generally depended on how many textures were also linked. I think Delphy did some more work on deciphering how you determine which texture files and types went in which position, but that is sort of outside of the scope of what I was trying to do. Note that you can also edit the texture references this way, but you will need a better adviser than I for what should go where.

By editing this value you can change what .skcon file the exported GEOM is linked to. If that .skcon file has a Sword bone in it, then there will be a Sword bone associated with your new mesh, regardless of whether you placed a Sword joint in your MilkShape file.

Now, as I understand what you are trying to do is to make meshes that will interact with Medieval (which I don't have). As an example of a process I think will work, let's say you wanted to convert the wedding dress mesh to work in Medieval. The simplest way would be to get the .skcon for the medieval mesh, put a copy in your work folder, but renamed to the wedding dress .skcon name, import the file, change the comment to the particular Medieval .skcon values, and export the mesh. You need not package or be concerned with the .skcon file any more, because the reference specified in the comments will direct the game to the original Medieval .skcon file in your games files.

The one thing that is missing is only that you will not be able to see the Sword bone while you are making the mesh unless you manually add it like you have been doing. If you were adjusting say some sleeves or something that had to be compatible with a sword, this would be important. But if you were just wanting to make something like a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, well that process should work, and your new mesh should be able to hold swords (or whatever), regardless of whether they were in MilkShape when the export was made.

The "Bone hash not in skeleton" is just a warning message... I tried to make a tool that would work on almost everything, but it did not seem right to just import a mesh and not mention that there was something special in the .skcon file that the importer was not prepared to add. There are a very few base game meshes that have references to some slot or another that will give the same message. Why the plug-in cannot add these is that the .skcon file does not have an hierarchy information, and so it is not possible to build the skeleton and animate any new joints correctly without that. So while I could have allowed the importer to make new bones and position them, they would not function as they should, because they would all be parented to the world, and in the case of a sword, if you moved the arm the sword would not follow as it would if the joint was correctly parented to a hand or wrist or whatever it is parented to.

This hierarchy information is available in the RIG files, but it defied all my efforts (as well as Karybdis and others) at decoding the layout well enough to be able to read and write them. But this plug-in should work for you, even if it has a few warts.

<* Wes *>

If you like to say what you think, be sure you know which to do first.
Instructor
#187 Old 26th Sep 2011 at 6:01 AM
Thanks for all the info. I almost asked for the source code so I could have a better understanding of how it worked.

So, if I'm understanding right, the "Bone hash not in skeleton" means there is a bone not in the 121 bone default skeleton. But, after I export the mesh to a .simgeom file the missing bones are deleted from the file. I've been looking at the file with a hex editor, and have seen the bones in the original, and they are gone after an export. Also, on the first import bone weights are there, but have no bone assigned. After exporting and re-importing those weights are gone.

The model definately has problems in game after exporting. The missing assingments cause the sword and cape and probably the kneecaps to be pulled into the floor. From looking a the .skcon and other files I'm sure I can reassign the problem vertices. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

I do appreciate the plug-in, many meshes seem to have no issues at all, and I really appreciate the detailed explanation on how the plugin works. On a side note, TSM doesn't seem to use the grannyrig format for RIG files. The new version seems to be easier to understand.
Sockpuppet
#188 Old 26th Sep 2011 at 6:56 AM
You are correct, the missing bonehash is the missing joint(or slot)
You get this message because the importer doesn't recognize those hashes and it would be cool if Wes would update the importer with those joints.

The weights are there tho on the first import its just a matter of reassigning those to a existing Sims 3 joint.
even if the importer would recognize those joints you still have to reassigne them to a sims 3 joint but it would be a bit easier as you then you could rename the joint and not have to reassigne all those vertices.
I tried renaming a sims 3 joint into a TSM joint and then import the mesh but that didn't work.
Lab Assistant
#189 Old 27th Sep 2011 at 1:29 PM
Hello everyone.
Is it possible in Milkshape, export a file in format Geom to format unimesh?
Everytime I try, I get an error: No quaternion values stored.
What does this mean? Is there a solution?
From already thank you very much.
Sockpuppet
#190 Old 27th Sep 2011 at 1:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inu300988
Hello everyone.
Is it possible in Milkshape, export a file in format Geom to format unimesh?
Everytime I try, I get an error: No quaternion values stored.
What does this mean? Is there a solution?
From already thank you very much.



You need to start with a Unimesh first in Milkshape.
Import your GEOM
Copy the meshcomments from the Unimesh mesh to the GEOM mesh.
Then you can export.

Keep in mind you can not use these meshes in sims 2 unless you fix the joints(boneassignements) aswell.
Lab Assistant
#191 Old 27th Sep 2011 at 3:53 PM
Thank you very much for responding.
Test Subject
#192 Old 12th Jan 2012 at 5:41 PM Last edited by dojopuffle : 12th Jan 2012 at 6:10 PM.
thank u
Forum Resident
#193 Old 17th Jan 2012 at 8:52 PM
Is there an update that adds the pet bones? I'm trying to alter a horse hair mesh and when I import the geom into milkshape I get the warning about bone hashes missing, I'm assuming those are the pet bones.
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#194 Old 30th Jan 2012 at 6:06 PM
I have a sort of similar question. I still remember ye olde days when you had to import the skeleton from the skcon file, none of these fancy defaults . I'm trying to import the bodymesh and skeleton of a cat, which I know how to do in theory; but the import plugin doesn't recognise the skcon. I can only assume that this is the case because the name of the skcon doesn't match that of the geom, as EA seem to have thrown their naming conventions out the window around Ambitions time. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to name the skcon in order to have the plugin connect it with the geom.

Could you perhaps explain how the plugin filters for the skcon?

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Ms. Byte
#195 Old 31st Jan 2012 at 4:18 PM
WhiteRider, when I tried importing with the cat skcon the import found it (I didn't get the 'missing skeleton' message) but I still got all the hashed bone not in skeleton messages, so not sure what's going on there. Is this what's happening for you? I imagine the import finds the skcon by using the TGI linked in the mesh itself so as long as the skcon is named with the conventional TGI format it should be good to go. Wes can confirm or deny.

I think there's also another problem with the Pets meshes - they appear to be in a new format with two sets of UV coordinates unless I'm reading the data wrong, and the import/export process drops the second set. I've only looked at the cat and dog meshes so far so this may not apply to other animals. And haven't tried an altered mesh in-game so I don't know what if any effect this would have.

I've attached the relevant cat body meshes. Wes - do you think you'll do an update to address these changes and the import/export of tangents problem?
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: zip CatMeshesEA.zip (160.3 KB, 16 downloads) - View custom content
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#196 Old 31st Jan 2012 at 8:21 PM
Yes, Cmar; but once I've clicked through all the hashed bone not found errors, what I end up with is a cat mesh and a very deformed sim skeleton, which is why I assumed that the importer was attempting to use its default skeleton rather than importing the cat skeleton.

Edit: Ok, I think I was wrong. There is a cat skeleton in there; but it looks like there is also a collection of human facial bones. Perhaps the importer is substituting human bones for missing cat bones with the same hash?
The bone at the very top in the image is hat_grip, which I'm sure shouldn't exist for pets.
Screenshots

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Ms. Byte
#197 Old 31st Jan 2012 at 9:03 PM
Thinking (and looking) back, Wes told us that the skeleton information in the skcon file is not the complete skeleton data - it has positioning info for individual adjustments but not the relationships between joints. The missing data is in a grannyrig file, in this case presumably a new one for cats. Wes hardcoded the grannyrig data into his importer, which would need to be updated for the new sets of bones for animals - likely for each species. IMO this explains the apparent odd mix of people and cat bones.

See reply #9 here: http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...613#post3636613
Née whiterider
retired moderator
#198 Old 31st Jan 2012 at 9:29 PM
Ah! That does explain it, thankyou.

What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact.
Instructor
#199 Old 12th Feb 2012 at 4:51 PM
Wes, Thank you for the excellent plug-ins you created.
I am using them for TS2 and have a request for the Morph Mangle tool. If you ever re-visit it, could you make it so that it only wants to work with the morphs for the base mesh group that there is a reference group for? As it is now, it refuses to work when there is anything (guide mesh, future parts etc.) in the file but the base mesh, the morphs and the reference (because they have different vertex counts).
It would be fine if it could ignore anytyhing below the group called reference, for example.
Lab Assistant
#200 Old 16th Feb 2012 at 4:51 AM
Hiya! I'm late coming to the party... Which one of the following is the Runtime I need?
http://www.microsoft.com/download/e...02008%20Runtime
(the link in the first post doesn't go directly to a download)

Thanks in advance for your kind consideration!
Test Subject
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Test Subject
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