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Mad Poster
#1176 Old 16th Jun 2021 at 6:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jathom95
The funny thing for TS3 in particular is that the "route stomping" thing was totally unnecessary. If you use mods (I use two, one to remove the stomping animation and another to tweak the distance at which they can route around each other) then they route perfectly fine still and much more quickly as well. The whole clipping through objects thing in TS4 was just a lazy workaround to actually fixing routing issues.


Yes, this. I would rather use a couple of mods than look at scenes like the following...



There is something like 10-plus sims crammed into the DJ booth. This isn't a little clipping, it's obnoxious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAKUd4m9mgg
Screenshots
Inventor
#1177 Old 16th Jun 2021 at 6:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jathom95
The funny thing for TS3 in particular is that the "route stomping" thing was totally unnecessary. If you use mods (I use two, one to remove the stomping animation and another to tweak the distance at which they can route around each other) then they route perfectly fine still and much more quickly as well. The whole clipping through objects thing in TS4 was just a lazy workaround to actually fixing routing issues.


You can also edit the Sims3.ini file and change the "DynamicAvoidance" values to something really small such as 0.1.

Clipping through objects is such a cheap solution for routing issues. It breaks immersion.
Mad Poster
#1178 Old 16th Jun 2021 at 10:52 PM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 16th Jun 2021 at 11:31 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmo
Personal opinion: I rather want to have sims glitching into objects or each other (Like in Sims 4) then having them standing around, stomping their feets screaming out that they have routing failures. Sims 2 was OK, not always logical but OK. Sims 3 was horrible. I hope Paralives handles that better.

I rather not looking at that in4 DJ booth thing. The problem with routing in previous games is that it isn't improved to full realism. In TS3, they made it better but allowing sims to squeeze through more tight spots, while with TS4 they overdone where Sims literally phase one another and can't get a room. I feel like developers should look how in traffic rules, vehicles and cars prioritize to whom they give a way or take lead and use that as a blueprint to design a similar smart AI to get Paras moving when one another is in the way in tight spots/areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
...and to not being able to put furniture where we want and where it looks like anyone's normal home layout.


And yeah, I never understood where certain objects, like especially ones that are wall-hung but small, don't have a accurate collision system. Some objects that physically small enough to fit or allow Sims to walk past shouldn't block one another or cause routing problem for Sim.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Mad Poster
#1179 Old 17th Jun 2021 at 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
I rather not looking at that in4 DJ booth thing. The problem with routing in previous games is that it isn't improved to full realism. In TS3, they made it better but allowing sims to squeeze through more tight spots, while with TS4 they overdone where Sims literally phase one another and can't get a room. I feel like developers should look how in traffic rules, vehicles and cars prioritize to whom they give a way or take lead and use that as a blueprint to design a similar smart AI to get Paras moving when one another is in the way in tight spots/areas.


Maxis doesn't care. This has been in the game since before it was released. It was one of my first peeves about TS4 aside from the price of onions and the pink trees. I said it then and I'll say it now that if I wanted a game where characters ghost through things including each other, I'd buy a game about ghosts. I digress.

The DJ booth scene is mild compared to what a Carl's Gudie video showed. He did a video where he put 100 sims in a house. It goes without saying, it didn't go well. It showed simulation lag, how stupid TS4 sims really are and of course, running through counters is always fun to watch. SMH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIKc5aszzFM
Mad Poster
#1180 Old 17th Jun 2021 at 2:09 AM
I know they don't. Tell me something new, lol.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Lab Assistant
#1181 Old 17th Jun 2021 at 6:07 AM
Imagining paras literally squeezing past each other through a tight door is hilarious and now I want that to be a thing.
Mad Poster
#1182 Old 18th Jun 2021 at 1:16 AM
Btw...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphalesion
That video was beautiful! And it shows how they will not to have to provide that many basegame objects in the beginning for us to create varied furniture. And honestly, I would be perfectly fine if the first version of the game shipped with about the same amount of furniture as Sims 1.

This ^^.... Like I was quite surprized when for a long time I installed and open TS2, I couldn't believe how very fewer objects there were in the BG than I remember, but hey - at least developers prioritize details and replayability over quantity and fancy artstyle over magority of important mechanics. It goes to show that quatity isn't (most of the time/always) everything, as in meaning the gameplay will be best

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirabook
I saw some people concerned that "The Sims is going to steal all of Paralives ideas before it can come out!"

For one, I don't think people need to be concerned about that really. Even if they DO steal the ideas, that's good for people who are still invested in new Sims products right? The Sims team would be smart to implement some of these techniques instead of the boxed in stuff they're doing right now.

I don't think it's something ppl should worry too much, because the only thing (though I swear it's one of the two, not one of one) devs have picked up and "stole" is the remove shoe feature right after gameplay glimse paralive release with first Snowy Escape, amongst many other brilliant details Paralives has realized in the game from the footage alone.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Lab Assistant
#1183 Old 18th Jun 2021 at 2:07 AM Last edited by Sokisims : 18th Jun 2021 at 2:21 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirabook


I love this!! They could do the same with the heights, for kisses and hugs, use key points and animate the feet and so on. I expect people walking holding hands and many group animations, I want to see everything they should have given us in 2021. Simulation of life is what will make the game good or not.
Scholar
#1184 Old 21st Jun 2021 at 12:24 AM Last edited by mithrak_nl : 21st Jun 2021 at 12:36 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
Yes, this. I would rather use a couple of mods than look at scenes like the following...



There is something like 10-plus sims crammed into the DJ booth. This isn't a little clipping, it's obnoxious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAKUd4m9mgg

The video title makes that picture even funnier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
EA took the decision not to use procedural animation - ie if you raise or lower a bathtub a sim can't get into it while a para will be able to. Procedural animations are probably more prone to looking deformed than fixed movements and object sizes, but imho more fun for the player who would rather have the flexibility than the polish. Not that EA ever did manage to get their preset animations polished! The number of sims who have simply walked into the middle of kitchen counters...


I can't wait to put that to the test just to see how elastic those para's are.
Test Subject
#1185 Old 25th Jun 2021 at 8:49 PM Last edited by Adorbs_Lil_Puddin : 26th Jun 2021 at 3:24 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
Yes, this. I would rather use a couple of mods than look at scenes like the following...



There is something like 10-plus sims crammed into the DJ booth. This isn't a little clipping, it's obnoxious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAKUd4m9mgg

I still don't understand why it's like this. It's an odd choice because TS4 prioritized pouring personality and interaction types into the Sims vs building focus... For some reason. Yet decided to go the lazy route with a prime interaction opportunity by not allowing blocked Sims to interact with the blocking Sim. I wonder if this is just a consequence of having no true physics in the game or if it's just lazy problem solving (Sims never have to worry about physically blocked by other Sims when walking).

At the very least the Sims respect personal space when waiting their turn. Usually.
Mad Poster
#1186 Old 26th Jun 2021 at 12:40 AM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 26th Jun 2021 at 12:51 AM.
Routing aaide, as of late I manage to get and install The Sims 1 complete collection cause of annoying TS2 crashing I can't get to fix on my rig, but.... let me tell, the things the sims 1 has in terms of objects and some fewture bits are far more... interesting and refreshing than what you get with TS4. Like especially things outside of your home.

Like the choices for each pack that's been added are well calculated and chosen carefully for each pack that makes it fun. Don,'t get me started on complicated objevts with snimation. And while I know it's probably be easier to implement due to graphics and simplified looking artstyle/graphics/whatever its called, it's still absurd knowing how TS1 packs look well refine and feature-ess then what TS4 has offered. Compare Unlesshed petobjects-venues to Cats&Dogs, SuperStar activities to Get Famous, and Makin Magic's spell system to Realm of Magic. And we don't even have a proper Hot Date take for TS4 (maybe that's a plus, since Family Content is still lacking and that's something should be priority-above). Although haven't tried it, but On Vacation have more treatful leisure activities on each three destination location to Outdoor Retrest, Island Living and Snowy Escape respectively. Like what the hell? Shouldn't pack focusing on one single vacation trip be flesh-out on its own merit than a pack that does all three which was made in early 2000's? Mind blown

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Scholar
#1187 Old 26th Jun 2021 at 8:04 AM
To be honest I do not think there were any date mechanics in TS3 either. I do have all packs and the only thing my sims can do is to pick a place to have the date, whatever happens after that is hidden (due to rabbit hole community lots). I loved arranging dates in TS2 (even if I have no experience from dates irl ) and in most cases they turned out well. Following a list like in TS4 just feels stupid. That combined with the fact that the ingame time runs very fast, that service in restaurants and bars are very slow and that the needs of a playable sim drops like a rock does not make it better. (OK, I did have a mod in TS2 making the needs drop slower but even without it the dates were somehow doable). I hope this game solves this better.
Lab Assistant
#1188 Old 28th Jun 2021 at 2:01 PM
Dates aren't hidden in TS3, but they're not as nice as the TS2 dates where you get an obvious meter on how the date is going. You don't have to take a sim to a rabbit hole for a date, you can do pretty much anything with them. I don't actually know the mechanics to make a perfect date each time (I like playing the game kinda blind even after all these years), but I usually make sure they eat whether it's in a restaurant, at their house, or at a restaurant outside.

After that, I try to pick one or two activities they can do together that gives tons of fun. Depending on the park you have in the neighborhood, they can do things like play soccer/football together or maybe throw water balloons at each other. They can go see a movie. Or, if they're already super into each other, you can just have them woohoo for almost a verified good date at the least. But time is also important, make sure they spend a few hours together at least.
Instructor
#1189 Old 28th Jun 2021 at 6:31 PM
Dates in TS3 aren't measured by a meter because it's supposed to be more open-ended in how you approach the date. The idea is that you decide what to do and as long as you show them a good time, then you'll have a successful date. That may include taking them to one or more venues, spend some time talking or flirting, etc. If they have to leave early or you cut the date early, they'll get annoyed because you hardly did anything with them.

I prefer it that way honestly. TS2's take on it wasn't that bad, but I'm the opposite in that I don't really like having an obvious measure of how well I'm doing placed in front of me. I absolutely abhor TS4's date system though. Just going through a checklist of things I may or may not want them to do, all to get a better "reward".

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Smeg Head
#1190 Old 28th Jun 2021 at 6:46 PM Last edited by coolspear1 : 28th Jun 2021 at 6:58 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adorbs_Lil_Puddin
I still don't understand why it's like this. It's an odd choice because TS4 prioritized pouring personality and interaction types into the Sims vs building focus... For some reason. Yet decided to go the lazy route with a prime interaction opportunity by not allowing blocked Sims to interact with the blocking Sim. I wonder if this is just a consequence of having no true physics in the game or if it's just lazy problem solving (Sims never have to worry about physically blocked by other Sims when walking).

At the very least the Sims respect personal space when waiting their turn. Usually.


It is actually very easily fixed. I did a mod for it myself a while back. The XML for DJ Dancer/Observer has the minimum distance to stand set at zero. (Maximum at 5 which some sims do choose.) Hence most sims pack into the booth like sardines. An obvious oversight. Altering that minimum factor to anything else other than zero, 0.5 - half a tile - 1, whole tile, 2,3,4 whatever, makes sims stand further away and, consequently, more spread out. Maxis could fix this oversight in a blink of an eye, a two minute edit job to XML, nothing major about it, - I know this as I did this. But they don't fix, despite this being a topic already reported to them because of its ridiculousness, but they don't fix because they don't care. A two minute edit job avoided for six-odd years? They don't care at all.

"Become a government informer. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!" Red Dwarf - Back to Reality.

Find all my TS4 mods and lots here: Main Website - simsasylum.com My Section - coolspear's Mods & Lots
Inventor
#1191 Old 28th Jun 2021 at 8:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolspear1
Maxis could fix this oversight in a blink of an eye, a two minute edit job to XML, nothing major about it, - I know this as I did this. But they don't fix, despite this being a topic already reported to them because of its ridiculousness, but they don't fix because they don't care. A two minute edit job avoided for six-odd years? They don't care at all.


I'm pretty sure the corporate structure and bureaucracy inside the studio is to blame here. Even a minor 2-minute fix probably has to go through many, many stages before it can be included in a patch. Indie or medium-sized studios are much more effective with fewer employees and resources than big studios.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#1192 Old 29th Jun 2021 at 7:28 PM
It's impossible to have a romantic date in TS4, unless you just invite them to your room or something, as your sim immediately walks off from their date and starts talking to everyone else.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Top Secret Researcher
#1193 Old 3rd Jul 2021 at 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
It's impossible to have a romantic date in TS4, unless you just invite them to your room or something, as your sim immediately walks off from their date and starts talking to everyone else.

And it better be an empty room at that.
A whole ago I gave Sims another try and I tried to build up a romantic relationship between a Sim and his guest... and they both constantly kept walking off to do other things (getting books from the shelf and reading them, playing with their phones/tablets, sitting down, changing seats etc etc) it was...tiresome.

Avatar by MasterRed
Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Trainee Moderator
staff: trainee moderator
#1194 Old 9th Jul 2021 at 3:48 AM
Paralives has made this post about modular objects public: https://www.patreon.com/posts/modular-objects-50984237
Scholar
#1195 Old 14th Jul 2021 at 1:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
It's impossible to have a romantic date in TS4, unless you just invite them to your room or something, as your sim immediately walks off from their date and starts talking to everyone else.


Does it still have the homing missile npcs? When your sim is on a public lot and you get this interaction pop up in your queue that you can't click away. And it turns out to be this random townie just freshly spawned on the lot. There is no line of sight between this townie and your sim, but they still know exactly where your sim is and will go for them, no matter what. And only when they reach your sim, you get to cancel their interaction? And because it is in the queue all the time, your sim kissing their date becomes an awkward encounter, even though they were never in a position to actually see the kiss. If this mechanic was made up by a developer with the intention to troll players, I would believe it.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#1196 Old 14th Jul 2021 at 2:24 PM
Two days ago, my sim was with his intended girlfriend in a part of a large room away from the other sims in the room. They were not part of the group conversation. So I instructed him to "confess attraction". As part of carrying out my instruction, he walked over to the group the other side of the room, she followed. His interaction changed to chatting with group, with the little "confess attraction" tag against it. So like he deliberately wanted to say it so everyone could hear. So basically the code is written to make it almost impossible to have a private chat if there is another sim anywhere on the lot, since it makes it seem that as soon as your sim wants to say anything, he has to try and make it part of a group chat if at all possible. So what's the thinking behind that? Yes it really does look as if some developer has made up their mind to have the game frustrate the intention of the player wherever possible. You expect that in an arcade-style game or shooter, but surely not in a game described as "sandbox"

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Instructor
#1197 Old 14th Jul 2021 at 4:15 PM
Considering early TS4, even after release, had such a heavy focus on partying and outings and young adult interactions, it definitely wouldn't surprise me at all if they deliberately coded it that way to make venues or house parties seem more lively.

Remember how everyone said venues were dead in TS3 and nobody ever showed up to talk to your Sim? It's like they took the polar opposite of that and made TS4 Sims literally unable to function without being in a group. Be careful what you wish for I guess.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Scholar
#1198 Old 15th Jul 2021 at 1:56 AM
The whole grouping definitely feels forced yes. I think that this also lead to the chair dance while chatting and sitting.
But I think this has also to do with how the queue is programmed. There seems to be something off with its priority list. Like how your action cancelling is sometimes waiting for something else to finish first. I also remember that when your sim is walking somewhere and you add an interaction with another sim to the queue, the sim sometimes first completes walking to destination to then walk back to the location where you added the interaction.To then resolve that action. Or when trying to chat to a sim and both are sitting, instead of checking if you are sitting within chatting distance and stay put, itll make your sims stand up and sit again by default. There are also these moments (maybe when animations first need to be finished I think?) where you simply can't add an interaction to the queue. But maybe that is just lag somehow.
I think the whole action queue is an unreliable mess anyway with the way it works.
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