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Needs Coffee
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#51 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 12:48 PM
What about lots that are unowned because they were built to be uploaded. Time doesn't pass on those.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Scholar
#52 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 3:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmeiolanthe
Last night, this is what I did:
1. Remove the hack (OK, that was done several days ago, but it's still out)
2. Install the LBF deadly neck bite fix
3, Play the affected household for one game hour
4. Remove the fix
5. Check the affected lot -- no Hug

So the LBF does seem to fix it.


Close enough to my list, isn't it? You simply could leave out two steps because the hack was already taken out Well done on the speed-up, there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
What about lots that are unowned because they were built to be uploaded. Time doesn't pass on those.


Well, if you plan to share the lot, you should still first Play-test it to make sure that sims don't get stuck on routing issue, for example. While play-testing, I can't imagine the house being unoccupied, really and time will indeed pass.
Sesquipedalian Pisciform
retired moderator
#53 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 4:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilingOil

Well, if you plan to share the lot, you should still first Play-test it to make sure that sims don't get stuck on routing issue, for example. While play-testing, I can't imagine the house being unoccupied, really and time will indeed pass.


BO - lots are tested on a copy as on move out the furniture goes too. Leaving the sims in the lot is of course not recommended. So the issue remains.

More downloads by Leesester, BoilingOil and others at Leefish.nl | My Stuff at Leefish.nl | LeeFish RSS | Sims4 News Blog | TumblinLeefish
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#54 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 4:32 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 24th Jul 2013 at 4:47 PM.
That's right. We really need to get a fix for never-occupied lots, so that people can feel safe sharing and downloading lots. Previously-occupied lots have their own set of problems and we are not sure that they are safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I'm guessing so. Rufio has not cleaned up if they even know about this, but it's been up a very long time for there to have never been a bug report.
Have you reported this bug yet? I'm not sure that Rufio is still creating for Sims 2, but no one will know until someone reports it.
Me? Sarcastic? Never.
staff: administrator
#55 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 4:44 PM
I installed the Autumn Winds Retirement home. When installed as is, the couple I moved in had the bug. I moved them out and bulldozed the lot. I then placed another copy, used CI to remove furniture, and moved another couple in.

This lot does not have the bug, and after several sim hours it has not returned to the lot. I also do not appear to have this bug in any other household in that hood.

I have no mods that create this bug (never have), as I really don't use social mods (unless there happens to be a fix in Pescado's Directors Cut).
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Original Poster
#56 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 4:48 PM
That makes sense to me. I've been saying for some time that EA's move-out code was probably written as a way to make lots safe again after they have been occupied.

So, one solution is to remove the furniture from the lots and share those unfurnished versions, until we can get something which will permanently remove the SDH controller from your unoccupied lots.
Field Researcher
#57 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 5:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
I installed the Autumn Winds Retirement home. When installed as is, the couple I moved in had the bug. I moved them out and bulldozed the lot. I then placed another copy, used CI to remove furniture, and moved another couple in.

This lot does not have the bug, and after several sim hours it has not returned to the lot. I also do not appear to have this bug in any other household in that hood.

I have no mods that create this bug (never have), as I really don't use social mods (unless there happens to be a fix in Pescado's Directors Cut).


HugeLunatic, the retirement home you tested, was it the version I thought I had fixed over at Leefish?

aka Dominie aka Kim.
Scholar
#58 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 6:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefish
BO - lots are tested on a copy as on move out the furniture goes too. Leaving the sims in the lot is of course not recommended. So the issue remains.


Sure, but that copy is going to be occupied for testing. If the copy is clean, the original is probably clean as well. And if the copy is infected, so is probably the original!

Really, testing a lot for upload should not be a problem. Unless it proves infected, in which case you still need a good way to clean it up.
Sesquipedalian Pisciform
retired moderator
#60 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 9:17 PM Last edited by leefish : 24th Jul 2013 at 11:00 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilingOil
Sure, but that copy is going to be occupied for testing. If the copy is clean, the original is probably clean as well. And if the copy is infected, so is probably the original!

Really, testing a lot for upload should not be a problem. Unless it proves infected, in which case you still need a good way to clean it up.


My point BO was that your remark re playtesting appeared flawed. Playtesting a lot and then sharing it (as your post implied) would not actually fix the issue. The problem is that creators want to share furnished lots.

So yes, we need a way to clean the lot up and keep it furnished.

More downloads by Leesester, BoilingOil and others at Leefish.nl | My Stuff at Leefish.nl | LeeFish RSS | Sims4 News Blog | TumblinLeefish
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#61 Old 24th Jul 2013 at 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilingOil
Well, if you plan to share the lot, you should still first Play-test it to make sure that sims don't get stuck on routing issue, for example. While play-testing, I can't imagine the house being unoccupied, really and time will indeed pass.


I do not play test the lot that gets uploaded. I put the lot I have finished into the lot bin and I place down a copy. I then play test the copy. I don't believe uploading previously occupied lots is safe. You could be swapping one problem for another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
Have you reported this bug yet? I'm not sure that Rufio is still creating for Sims 2, but no one will know until someone reports it.


No because I do not post at MATY. Any other site and I would have said something. Now that I know the other site belongs to the same person I will see if I can send him/her a message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugeLunatic
Tamas - Nope. I downloaded here from MTS.

HL was that the old copy or the newly fixed copy? So far this is the only lot that has been cleaned and re-uploaded back here.

Has anyone tested or checked my third test lot? I still don't know if what I did was an effective fix for new lots. test lot three. https://app.box.com/s/vwso42wir4vvpductpyy I put this back on post #43. If here isn’t a good place to leave a link I will do so over at Leefish.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Field Researcher
#62 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 12:18 AM
HugeLunatic

Sorry, I know, I should of been more specific with my question.

I had put what i thought was a fixed version of the retirement home up at Leefish, and then it was put up here at Mods, I believe, three days ago. So I was wondering if it was my so-called fixed version that still showed the hug for you.

jo, I will this evening...but i think someone else should too.

aka Dominie aka Kim.
Scholar
#63 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefish
My point BO was that your remark re playtesting appeared flawed. Playtesting a lot and then sharing it (as your post implied) would not actually fix the issue. The problem is that creators want to share furnished lots.

So yes, we need a way to clean the lot up and keep it furnished.


Well, I don't mind explaining, Lee.

From day one, I assumed that one would make a copy of a furnished house, play-test the copy, and if everything is fine, package and upload the original as having been play-tested!
At least, that would be the way I would do it.

Did I give the average creator too much credit, assuming that they would do the same? Do I have too much faith in my fellow humans' cognitive abilities? I hope not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
I do not play test the lot that gets uploaded. I put the lot I have finished into the lot bin and I place down a copy. I then play test the copy. I don't believe uploading previously occupied lots is safe. You could be swapping one problem for another.


And THAT is exactly what I meant. Doing it any other way would be asking for trouble, after all!
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Original Poster
#64 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 1:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilingOil
From day one, I assumed that one would make a copy of a furnished house, play-test the copy, and if everything is fine, package and upload the original as having been play-tested!
So we're all on the same page about this.

However, that still doesn't tell us what to do when we find out that the lot is infected? Looks like most or all of joandsarah's lots are infected. That's why I started this thread. We need to know how to ensure that uploaded and downloaded never-occupied lots are not infected.

Any fix which requires the lot to be occupied is not addressing the issue. It's not right to ship an infected lot, and then tell everyone that they must download a fix and keep it in their Downloads folder forever. We want a better solution.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#65 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 1:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilingOil
From day one, I assumed that one would make a copy of a furnished house, play-test the copy, and if everything is fine, package and upload the original as having been play-tested!
At least, that would be the way I would do it.

Did I give the average creator too much credit, assuming that they would do the same? Do I have too much faith in my fellow humans' cognitive abilities? I hope not!

And THAT is exactly what I meant. Doing it any other way would be asking for trouble, after all!


I think most creators here at MTS would do that. You can at least know that any lot here can not just be uploaded without checking. I even included a few unused recolours of some desks in my school and it got spotted. Elsewhere I think you take your chances.

But the point was, these lots get no playing time before upload. Playing a copy doesn't count. That just fixes silly things such as forgetting you placed a chair the wrong way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamas
jo, I will this evening...but i think someone else should too.


Thanks Dominie, you seem to be the only one who is testing them right now. Another tester or two would be great, but I haven't seen Nix come back to the thread. I'm very grateful for whatever you can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
So we're all on the same page about this.

However, that still doesn't tell us what to do when we find out that the lot is infected? Looks like most or all of joandsarah's lots are infected. That's why I started this thread. We need to know how to ensure that uploaded and downloaded never-occupied lots are not infected.

Any fix which requires the lot to be occupied is not addressing the issue. It's not right to ship an infected lot, and then tell everyone that they must download a fix and keep it in their Downloads folder forever. We want a better solution.


Exactly. I won't upload another lot until I know for sure it is going to be clean.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#66 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 1:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
You can at least know that any lot here can not just be uploaded without checking. I even included a few unused recolours of some desks in my school and it got spotted. Elsewhere I think you take your chances.


In terms of chance of lot having been occupied, I don't think MTS is any safer than other sites. I have found several with obvious signs of having been occupied, and also lots that break the more obvious rules such as having flat edges.

I'm not saying moderators don't do a good job, but excess recolors is a lot easier to spot without opening the lot than some other things. For example, if screenshot requirements are met, you should be able to count number of desks and compare that to number of recolors.

I would like to think most creators do the method mentioned here, but has been proven repeatedly that not all find that the obvious method.

Any way, it sounds like there is some hope of this issue being cleared up. If it's not as viral as it seemed to be, at least testing it is less dangerous. I'll get laptop set up with base game tomorrow and test your lot, jo. All I need to do is move someone in and see if they have that interaction, right?
Theorist
#67 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 1:43 AM
If someone will make me an infected lot that is compatible with BV or lower, I will test it gladly. I have some ideas of things to test. However, since Jo has more EPs than I do, I can't test her lots in particular.

If nobody wants to infect their game to make me an infected lot, would someone be willing to test a lot I make to see if it's infected, so I can experiment with that one? I feel pretty confident from my testing that the in-laws hack won't infect a 'hood that isn't touched while it's in the Downloads folder, so I'll just pop it in, build a box, and pop it out.

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
Field Researcher
#68 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 1:55 AM
Esme, I would be happy to test it, I really want this solved for everyone's sake. And because my game is somewhat newly installed on a new pc where I was starting over anyways, I don't have alot of investment in my current game, although i have been regenerating new games for each test...and leaving the one I started setting up alone.

So, please send me a lot to test.

aka Dominie aka Kim.
Theorist
#69 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 2:52 AM
Okay, so here is what I did.

1. I opened a game with a Downloads folder that contained only the two hacks that are causing problems: InLawsFix and ExtendedFamilyPartial.
2. I opened a completely new 'hood. I use empty templates, so this 'hood has only the 102 character files that the game generated automatically. (I daresay that is higher than it should be, but I'm not worried about that now.) I created no Sims and moved no Sims in. I named this 'hood "Infected".
3. I went into Infected and built a lot. It is a red box on a 2x2 lot, and it is named Red. You can download it here.

Is Red infected?

4. I quit the game and pulled the Downloads folder, removing the flawed hacks from my game.
5. I went into Pleasantview. The Calientes (who never had the Hug) still did not have the Hug. The Brokes (who once had the Hug and were cured) still did not have the Hug.
6. I went back into Infected and built a lot. It is a blue box built on a 2x2 lot, and it is named Blue. You can download it here.

Is Blue infected?

7. I quit the game and added a Downloads folder that only contained the LBF fix.
8. I went back into Infected and built a lot. It is a green box built on a 2x2 lot, and it is named Green. You can download it here.

Is Green infected?

I did not check Pleasantview when I built Green because I know that with the LBF fix in, the Hug will not appear.

Here are my predictions. I have spoilered them so that they do not prejudice the tester. Tamas/Dominie (which do you prefer, BTW?) and any other tester(s), please don't peek!



I have all EPs through Bon Voyage plus Glamor Life Stuff and Family Fun Stuff.

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#70 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 3:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gummilutt
In terms of chance of lot having been occupied, I don't think MTS is any safer than other sites. I have found several with obvious signs of having been occupied.

I'll get laptop set up with base game tomorrow and test your lot, jo. All I need to do is move someone in and see if they have that interaction, right?


I guess I was thinking that people who upload lots here would take more care simply because they do have to use CI to clean them, so if they are aware of things such as a million mail box recolours and hacks and my thought was, if they are doing that, then they are probably more aware of other issues such as sims previously living in the lot. That could also be wishful thinking on my part.

That would be great, but you will need to install M&G to test my test lots. All I have on the test lots is a box with a roof, but my game engine is M&G.

This whole thing has been really embarrassing. Probably because I was always so proud of my 'clean lots'. I feel like I've been going around giving people a 'social disease' :/

Esme, thank you so much.

I have this picture of us all going around wearing hazmat suits and talking through helmets.

Edit: Just adding I have sent an email to the creator of the extended family mod with a link to this thread.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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Original Poster
#71 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 3:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
This whole thing has been really embarrassing. Probably because I was always so proud of my 'clean lots'. I feel like I've been going around giving people a 'social disease' :/
I feel that you've behaved very responsibly. As soon as you discovered the problem, you removed all of your downloads and warned people about the problem.
Scholar
#72 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 3:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joandsarah77
But the point was, these lots get no playing time before upload. Playing a copy doesn't count. That just fixes silly things such as forgetting you placed a chair the wrong way.


Well, it may not count for the uploaded lot having been occupied, because indeed it hasn't. That was the point of using a copy, after all. But it *does* count as the lot having been play-tested, as long as you also check for such known bugs in your sims' menus.

If play-testing a copy doesn't count as play-testing the lot, I wouldn't know what would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
However, that still doesn't tell us what to do when we find out that the lot is infected? Looks like most or all of joandsarah's lots are infected. That's why I started this thread. We need to know how to ensure that uploaded and downloaded never-occupied lots are not infected.

Any fix which requires the lot to be occupied is not addressing the issue. It's not right to ship an infected lot, and then tell everyone that they must download a fix and keep it in their Downloads folder forever. We want a better solution.


Agreed in full! So far, we have only addressed testing. Once the test has been performed on a copy of the new lot, and it was found to be infected, we will need some way of cleaning up the original, *unplayed* lot before uploading it.

On the other hand, if one has never encountered the bug and only uses proven bug-free mods, one could assume every lot they make to be safe by default. It would still be advisable to check, of course.
Theorist
#73 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 3:59 AM
(Rufio/faiuwle here, thanks for letting me know about the thread.)

All I can say is that I've been using the extended family and inlaws fix hacks in my own game since they were in development and I've never had the Super Duper Hug in my game. My understanding was that it came from adding a social interaction and then removing it (or the hack that added it). The extended family hacks include only global and semiglobal BHAVs, some of which I added, but none of them are associated with any social interaction objects. It sounds to me like you must have gotten it by removing some other hack with a new social interaction object in it.

I don't really do much TS2 these days, so my knowledge of this is rusty, though. If someone can explain how my hacks caused this bug, I'll do my best to fix it. I know I've seen downloads that people have posted to get rid of this bug in the past - do any of those work?
Theorist
#74 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 4:07 AM
The LBF Deadly Neck Bite (found here) fix will kill the version of the Super Duper Hug that your hack(s) create. The problem is coming in when someone who has your hacks in packages a lot and someone who doesn't have your hacks in places it in their game. The person without the hacks gets the Super Duper Hug.

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#75 Old 25th Jul 2013 at 4:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
I feel that you've behaved very responsibly. As soon as you discovered the problem, you removed all of your downloads and warned people about the problem.


I hope everyone would do the same. Nothing else to do as far as I can see. I’m 46, old enough to admit my mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilingOil
On the other hand, if one has never encountered the bug and only uses proven bug-free mods, one could assume every lot they make to be safe by default. It would still be advisable to check, of course.


Well no one would have known that extended family mod wasn't safe if I hadn't reported it. The date on that thread is 2009 and no word about the hug is mentioned.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
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