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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 17th Apr 2020 at 5:42 PM
Default What is happening around the world?
For those who choose to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

What in the world is actually going on? Document reveals plans, step by step.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zph...eature=youtu.be

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 17th Apr 2020 at 6:19 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 17th Apr 2020 at 9:04 PM.
Looks more like scare propaganda (with religious undertones) built into some sort of conspiracy theory. The text below the video suggests that much. They've put together small snippets somewhat out of context from news reports, and cut it together to make it look like their opinions are strengthened by what is happening around the world. Plus probably reading too much into that document, which looks more like a thought experiment into "how would the world react during a chrisis" than what this person seems to think is some sort of prediction of what's happening now, even if a lot of what's described isn't actually happening (seeing patterns everywhere where they aren't). Thought experiments and predictions about the future can in hindsight seem like they knew what was going on all along, but usually it's just a matter of predictions like "this country's leaders tends to this when pressed, so they'll probably do the same in that situation" - and those tend to generally have some truth in them because the opinion of leadership in various countries don't tend to change very quickly when faced with difficult challenges.

It's kind of like seeing "iPads" in old runs of Star Trek. You see something because you want to see it, and in hindsight it may even look like Star Trek predicted iPads, even though they didn't (in reality their iPads were quite different from the ones we actually have, but it could of course be that their invention inspired the ones who came up with the first actual iPad-like device - but that's inspiration, not prediction, and those two are quite different).

If they'd managed to stop the Covid 19 outbreak in Wutan before it managed to leave the city (they had an opportunity but blew it away because "let's hush it down for a while"), then 2020 would most likely have been a completely average year, and that document would most likely not have surfaced at all until the next chrisis that seemed to be predicted by the document.

Just a small side note, but I did notice she'd highlighted the "using MRI scanners in airports" line. I don't know of any airports where they currently do that, because MRI machines like metal a bit too much (in a "this is gonna hurt" kind of way), and there's bound to be a lot of metal on an airport (plus, the machines we currently have are quite huge and costly both in use and having them running). They use other types of scanners instead. I also doubt they'd use fMRI because there's no reason why they would need to. Not entirely sure those who wrote the document were aware of this, though... The foundation behind the document does seem to have a bit of sketchy backstory, though most of it seems to be pre-1970. I guess they could have redeemed themselves at some point (but I've only skimmed the Wiki article - I have a feeling I've heard of them before, and not necessarily in a positive way, but can't remember which setting it was ).
Instructor
#3 Old 17th Apr 2020 at 8:53 PM
April 20 is going to be the first day of a gradual restriction lifting in Poland. Most restrictions, however, are still in force. I'm not going to fall for any conspiracy theories about the outbreak because the lockdown itself is a psychological blow and I don't feel like making it worse. I'm lucky to be able to stay in and work from home and get 100% salary from both of my jobs, which is not the case with people, who earn less or were sacked because their businesses have been shut down.
dodgy builder
#4 Old 18th Apr 2020 at 9:02 AM
Coming from a culture wher we trust each other and the government ... usually. We just pay ourselves out of any issues with saved oil money. We're good at saving.

I have no patients with this kind of thing. Our people don't like being lied to, so our government tends to say it out right. We have been following our nabours the swedes lately. They are almost banqrupt even before this pandemic, and didn't close down all that much. They are surrounded by responsible countries that do though.

They have far more death than we do. Yesterday I tjink we had like 150 death with close to 6 mill people.

Our national broadcaster has showed how the numbers of death by flue has also gone down with this lockdown. We tend to be very good at doing as we're told if we understand the reason behind it. I think it's this week we have kindergardens and little school children going back to school. The older one's will have to wait.

We have all kinds of experts saying this and that, as usual they don't agree. The day experts agree the world is going to collapse, I'm sure.

I'm in collage now, and we use zoom for classes. I like working with zoom, I didn't think I would enjoy it this much. I'm fine with sitting by the pc day in and dsy out. It's what I do most days anyway.

Our government say "We don't know" most of the time. That's fine. People just shout for more money, and they pay out. Lucky us.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 18th Apr 2020 at 3:15 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 18th Apr 2020 at 3:30 PM.
I think the uncertainty in all the conflicting advice from the various governments in different nations happens because this is a health threat that's still a bit too new even for the experts to quite know how to handle. Most of the science is based either on already known science/knowledge from dealing with similar types of viruses, or on hastily done trials from the past few months, but it's a strain of virus that hasn't really been in the population before, so it's not easy to know how it will react. Experts say this, and experts say that, but they can't quite seem to agree on anything. That's usually how it is with medical knowledge - something is thought to be the truth until it's proven otherwise, and not even that knowledge is a hard fact, because it too can be proven faulty. Less than a couple hundred years back, doctors didn't think it was important to wash their hands between patients, and nobody knew what bacteria and viruses were (they thought infections were "sickness of the spirit" or some such).

Some governments have a tendency to fall back into old habits. If secrecy is their thing, they'll continue that until they realize it's no longer working. If openness is how they handle problems, then that's what they'll do. Lockdowns can be helpful - but we don't know whether the virus is going to blossom up or whether it's going to be worse when the lockdown eases up. Lockdowns can also cause harm, at least in the long run, where people lose income or even their jobs. It's a trial and failure tactic right now. You try something, and if it works you continue. If it fails, you try something else. If it works for a time but eventually causes problems, you may have to keep at it until it's reasonable to ease it up or quit.

Some things can make it more difficult for certain countries/areas/healthcare facilities to handle the threat. If there's a lot of antibiotic resistence going around in the healthcare facilities, that's not going to help when people's bodies are fighting a potentially deadly virus and get bacterial pneumonia or sepsis on top of it. If people are unhygienic or careless in regards to the use of face masks and gloves, they could end up spreading more of the virus around. Hoarding antibac and medical equipment when hospitals are in desperate need of these will not help for the health care workers who are standing in the middle of the tsunami of sick people without personal protective gear. At the same time, people with other diseases or medical conditions may be at a disadvantage because the normal run of the hospitals some places come to a grinding halt.

I think it's good when the government has enough trust in the people living in the country to do what they can do with an openness that makes people understand why they do it, but to also say "we don't know if we're doing the right thing, but we're trying our best to come out of this in one piece". It's better than not explaining why they do what they do or do things that cause fear and unwanted rebellious behavior, which people often will resort to when they're scared and angry. Sure, some people just won't get it no matter how hard you try, but as long as most people are careful and listen to the good advice, not picking up on harmful advice, things are probably going to work out.
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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 18th Apr 2020 at 4:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Looks more like scare propaganda (with religious undertones) built into some sort of conspiracy theory. The text below the video suggests that much. They've put together small snippets somewhat out of context from news reports, and cut it together to make it look like their opinions are strengthened by what is happening around the world. Plus probably reading too much into that document, which looks more like a thought experiment into "how would the world react during a chrisis" than what this person seems to think is some sort of prediction of what's happening now, even if a lot of what's described isn't actually happening (seeing patterns everywhere where they aren't). Thought experiments and predictions about the future can in hindsight seem like they knew what was going on all along, but usually it's just a matter of predictions like "this country's leaders tends to this when pressed, so they'll probably do the same in that situation" - and those tend to generally have some truth in them because the opinion of leadership in various countries don't tend to change very quickly when faced with difficult challenges.

It's kind of like seeing "iPads" in old runs of Star Trek. You see something because you want to see it, and in hindsight it may even look like Star Trek predicted iPads, even though they didn't (in reality their iPads were quite different from the ones we actually have, but it could of course be that their invention inspired the ones who came up with the first actual iPad-like device - but that's inspiration, not prediction, and those two are quite different).

If they'd managed to stop the Covid 19 outbreak in Wutan before it managed to leave the city (they had an opportunity but blew it away because "let's hush it down for a while"), then 2020 would most likely have been a completely average year, and that document would most likely not have surfaced at all until the next chrisis that seemed to be predicted by the document.

Just a small side note, but I did notice she'd highlighted the "using MRI scanners in airports" line. I don't know of any airports where they currently do that, because MRI machines like metal a bit too much (in a "this is gonna hurt" kind of way), and there's bound to be a lot of metal on an airport (plus, the machines we currently have are quite huge and costly both in use and having them running). They use other types of scanners instead. I also doubt they'd use fMRI because there's no reason why they would need to. Not entirely sure those who wrote the document were aware of this, though... The foundation behind the document does seem to have a bit of sketchy backstory, though most of it seems to be pre-1970. I guess they could have redeemed themselves at some point (but I've only skimmed the Wiki article - I have a feeling I've heard of them before, and not necessarily in a positive way, but can't remember which setting it was ).


Depends on each person's interpretation which likely has to do with their own beliefs, life experiences, knowledge, known world history, etc. Some clips are clearly from the news but not all clips which some seems to be from a citizen recording events. That isn't anything new and often times citizens will attempt to get the truth out about what is really happening compared to the narrative of what they say is happening in the media or omitting. Some may feel this is just a taste of what's to come in the future. Again depending on those things I mentioned earlier. Whether one believes or not is up to them but it doesn't hurt to be cautious and question everything which everyone should do anyway than just accept anyone's word as fact or truth without their own investigation. The past has a way of repeating itself and to understand the past means to understand the present which then allows to understand what the future holds.

Oh, you're referring to how in movies, tv series, etc., will showcase and/or tell the audience about technology that is not yet available at that time but will later down the line come true in a similar or exact fashion such as The Cable Guy predetermines some future technology. Whether one wants to see coincidences or something more than meets the eye is up to them. And this is just one of many examples of this.
The Cable Guy released on June 14, 1996.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCyZYhobvc4

That document, Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development, says it is from May 2010. Again, it's up to the individual if they want to believe in coincidences or be aware of spiritual and/or worldly predetermination.

Remember that not everything is "at that point in time" yet. So things predetermined/foretold in a spiritual or worldly sense could be much further along in the future and not necessarily referring to the present such as The Cable Guy for example.

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
Mad Poster
#7 Old 18th Apr 2020 at 4:49 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 18th Apr 2020 at 5:08 PM.
Prophetic foretelling don't hold much more water than horoscopes. You can always twist the words of an old text (be it 10 years old or more than 2000 years old) into supposedly saying something about the here and now if you really want to. They tend to be vague, for a very good reason.

If they said something in very direct language, such as "in 2020 there will be a virus pandemic that will kill a lot of people in a very short time" then that would be worrying.

If it's saying something like "there could be disease, people will panic, a lot of people will die, governments may react so-and-so, etc." but is vague or says nothing about the time or place, only that it "probably will happen at some point in time", then it doesn't hold water.

You can predict "it will rain", and maybe sooner or later it will rain, but unless you can also say when, where, and for how long, it's just guesswork, and not really prophethic in any way, because rain is one of those things that will happen eventually. Even the weather forecast can be wrong, and they supposedly know what they're doing.

That document doesn't seem like it's actually meant to be prophetic, but instead to show different possible scenarios in case of a chrisis. It did seem like there were at least 3 other scenarios that weren't even touched upon in the video. I guess those weren't prophetic enough

Pattern-seeking behavior, seeing patterns where there aren't any, is part of how human brains work. The glint of light out of the corner of your eye when you're out in a dense forest could be the sun hitting a droplet of water, but it could also be the eyes of a predator, and sometimes it could be dangerous to check, so better just believe it's a predator. Seeing danger where there isn't any is part of what has kept huans alive, but it's also part of why it's so easy to make people, especially if they're scared or worried, believe in things they probably wouldn't believe in if they thought rationally about things. Human nature has been tamed quite a bit from the time we lived in caves, but there's still a bit of that caveman nature left in us, and if pressured, humans are prone to give in to that caveman nature. Making predictions, however vague, has always been a thing humans do - and it doesn't seem to matter much whether the foretellings come true or not. It seems the more doom the foretellings have to offer, the more likely people are to believe in them.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#8 Old 19th Apr 2020 at 9:28 PM
It wouldn't matter if any text did admit exactly what would happen for any specific year because why would people, in general, believe it anyway. And the same applies for reading in between the lines, hiding in plain sight not to mention in plain view. The majority will likely deny it all and chalk it up as fiction and it's all in your mind. Which doesn't bother me because hey it's everyone's free-will to think what they want. Eventually the truth will come out...it always does.

By the way, I don't think people should be afraid but encouraged to think more. Though unfortunately some are afraid and thus become easily manipulated.

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
Site Helper
#9 Old 19th Apr 2020 at 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deshong
It wouldn't matter if any text did admit exactly what would happen for any specific year because why would people, in general, believe it anyway. And the same applies for reading in between the lines, hiding in plain sight not to mention in plain view. The majority will likely deny it all and chalk it up as fiction and it's all in your mind. Which doesn't bother me because hey it's everyone's free-will to think what they want. Eventually the truth will come out...it always does.

By the way, I don't think people should be afraid but encouraged to think more. Though unfortunately some are afraid and thus become easily manipulated.



I have a simple solution(but not entirely original concept since government and media already introduced it) for all these endless wars, immigration crises, and Orwellian "outbreaks"-social distancing. It does not require conspiracy theories or revolutions, but would call for government officials & media to socially distance themselves from large corporations & rich folk.
Screenshots
Mad Poster
#10 Old 19th Apr 2020 at 11:27 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 19th Apr 2020 at 11:56 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deshong
It wouldn't matter if any text did admit exactly what would happen for any specific year [...]


Yes, it would.
It would signify if those texts were actually telling some kind of truth or not.

If the time is vague, you can always chalk it up to "well, it didn't happen this year, so maybe next year. Or in 50 years. Or a hundred. Or..." - which is the kind of foretelling (or what you want to call it) that doesn't hold water.

If the time and description is exact (within certain limitations), either something happens or it doesn't. If it happens, then the foretelling was indeed true. If it doesn't happen, well - then you can just put that thing away and go on with your life.

By the way, there's only one "apocalypse" that's certain - and that's the one where the sun starts expanding, swallows up Mercury and Venus, and makes the Earth completely unhabitable. But don't worry - that's about 5 billion years away, so no reason to worry about that just yet. Probably won't even be any humans left on the planet (or in the universe, unless we've managed to travel to planets further away or other solar systems by then).
And no, this is no foretelling, this is just some of what happens to stars (and their surrounding planetary systems) at the end of their lifetime.

Quote:
By the way, I don't think people should be afraid but encouraged to think more. Though unfortunately some are afraid and thus become easily manipulated.


People should absolutely be encouraged to think more rationally about things. Emotions (not just fear) does indeed make people easier to manipulate, and often make them do stupid things, or makes them follow along with something they'd probably think twice about doing if their feelings weren't involved. Fear, love, anger, even respect can in some cases make a person do things they may come to regret - especially along with peer pressure and fearmongering.

There are times where governments are doing a lousy job or are secretly (or not so secretly) manipulating the population into doing what they want - but in most cases, at least in places where the government tends to be somewhat reasonable, they're only trying to keep people safe in the ways they can. Unfortunately there are people who are fiered up by this, which often results in the actions taken by the government being harsher than they'd otherwise be. If people did stay indoors and away from other people than their own household as much as possible, wash their hands, and generally followed the advice they were given, and didn't start moaning and taking to the streets, and actively breaking the advice and rules set up, then maybe the government wouldn't have to be so harsh. It's a two-way street. In most cases it's not just the government setting up a bunch of rules to make the people feel bad. They're trying to keep the people safe by trying to keep the virus in check so the healthcare system doesn't get even more overflowed than it already is. It isn't easy, and it's not made easier by the people who are actively not following the basic guidelines or getting bored or getting pissed off and complaining because they can't go to the hairdresser or want to go exercising in a (petri dish) gym. Priorities! Sure, a lot of people are having serious issues with those new rules in place, especially those who have lost their job. But there are also a lot of people who have lost their lives or are in a critical condition because of this virus, and the rules are in place to (hopefully) lower the amount of people who need hospitalization until there's good enough medical treatments like medications and a vaccine. Hopefully things will get better soon, for everyone.

Basically, there can be several sides to a case. Rational thinking means to see more sides of the case than just your own, and realize that there are both positives and negatives for all the sides. If you run around with a bucket on your head in a "me, me, me" mode, you don't see the benefits of that other side, and you're also blind and deaf to the negative consequences of doing everything your way.
Instructor
#11 Old 20th Apr 2020 at 1:45 PM

Parks, beaches, boulevars, quays and other open-air public places were opened today. We're also allowed to enter forests after a two or three-week ban. The police will no longer ask people about where they're going as long as they keep the desired distance and cover their mouths and noses. I heard an announcement from a police megaphone today which urged people to stay at home. Children under the age of 13 aren't allowed to leave home without a supervisor. Starting today more people are allowed in shops and churches depending on the size of a particulat place. Big shops selling building materials, which were closed at weekends, can operate at weekends now. Tattoo, beauty, massage and hairdresser salons as well as theaters, cinemas, museums, operas, shops in shopping malls which don't sell essentials, schools, kindergartens, nurseries and universities still remain closed. Borders closed for foreigners until 3 May. Mass events banned until further notice.

If people want to be seen as intelligent and responsible, they should stick to the rules and protect themselves and other people instead of creating conspiracy theories. This is not the time.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#12 Old 20th Apr 2020 at 8:08 PM
You said, "If it's saying something like "there could be disease, people will panic, a lot of people will die, governments may react so-and-so, etc." but is vague or says nothing about the time or place, only that it "probably will happen at some point in time", then it doesn't hold water."

In response I said, "It wouldn't matter if any text did admit exactly what would happen for any specific year because why would people, in general, believe it anyway. And the same applies for reading in between the lines, hiding in plain sight not to mention in plain view. The majority will likely deny it all and chalk it up as fiction and it's all in your mind." The point I was making but you didn't read in between the lines: Even if irrefutable proof exists, and it does, you and those that agreed with you along with generally speaking would still claim "conspiracy theory", "all in your mind", etc. Because there is a lot that is hidden in plain sight, but some in plain view yet you just proved you still gloss over it just as blind to it all because it must be specific and who cares about prophecies... those are fiction. And who would dare believe that people, movies, video games, tv series, Black Mirror, interviews, historic events, etc would say something years before and it comes true? Who is silly enough to believe such things, such nonsense...or is it the other way around? Ignorance is Bliss.

In most cases, regardless of presenting information to help others to think critically, they still refuse to do their own research to wholeheartedly seek what is the truth of the matter. You and those who agree with you just discredited what I presented perhaps because of, "If it's saying something like "there could be disease, people will panic, a lot of people will die, governments may react so-and-so, etc." but is vague or says nothing about the time or place, only that it "probably will happen at some point in time", then it doesn't hold water." Or "Prophetic foretelling don't hold much more water than horoscopes." (Which I won't go in depth but there are events all around the world from different times directly connected to prophesies, some are still in progress and others have yet to come. Besides, prophecies and "predetermined events" are similar in concept but different in execution and motive but I'm not going into that. Anyone with their intuition still in tact along with their spirituality might understand what I mean by that. I've always seen more than my eyes show me and hear more than what my ears listen to because of my 6th sense.) Or "Pattern-seeking behavior, seeing patterns where there aren't any, is part of how human brains work." (That may be the case for some but for those still attune to their spirituality know better. For me, it is faith without sight which most won't understand the logic of. And that's the point, I do not rely on my own logic or understanding for everything because then that would make me narrow-minded and not able to truly see anything beyond.

For anyone interested.

Here's some information and may concern the future of the world. Whether it's true or false...you decide that for yourself. Or just wait and see.

The next outbreak? We’re not ready | Bill Gates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI

Anthony Fauci CDC / Gates Foundation Predicts Coronavirus Pandemic - 2017 Georgetown Keynote Address
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe-cbMLJZzU

BOOM! Fauci Sweating Bullets! Trump Investigating His $3.7 Million Obama Era Grant to Wuhan Lab!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwndRgw-kI

BioWeapon 911 - Looking At Evidence - Not MSM Conspiracy Theories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22NdRk3vtiw

Event 201 Pandemic Exercise: Segment 4, Communications Discussion and Epilogue Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBuP40H4Tko

NASA's Future of War 2025 Is Already Here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDp...eature=youtu.be

1:20 "Remember: This is not just a story. This is our future."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVywqFx0GdE

Two robots debate the future of humanity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y3XdwTa1cA

So I read, whether true or not, conspiracy theorist is a term introduced by the CIA to cause a rise in false information over possible truth of a situation. Most are likely to believe in a lie than the truth because the "truth" could be the lie and the "lie" could be the truth. Right is wrong and wrong is right. It's all topsy turvy. Now the truth can be hidden in plain sight or in plain view and most would be trained to automatically dismiss it because they lack thinking and researching for themselves. The enemy can and will say what is to come and still the majority of people only see what they want to see and only hear what they want to hear, yet insist that the very thing they themselves are doing is what every "conspiracy theorist" is accused of. Though not everything is factual or truthful which is the whole point of learning how to distinguish between fact and fiction through not only research but connecting it to the events that has already happened, is happening and/or soon to happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnClrx8N2k

But it's all fiction...right? Even when presented with information usually it will be labeled a conspiracy theory to the blind and deaf. But again, if there's at least one person who becomes a critical thinker and even better yet improves their spirituality then that would be nice but if not oh well. What can you to do? They will find out the hard way that life is more than meets the eye as they choose to stay hooked up to the matrix popping those blue pills. Truth is stranger than fiction. And this is Spiritual Warfare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
Mad Poster
#13 Old 20th Apr 2020 at 8:49 PM
The problem with conspiracies (or whatever you want to call the concept) is that people tend to get more hung up in the fiction and make-believe around what they believe is the truth than the actual facts. It may not always be easy to see the difference between fiction and facts, but at some point in time there often will be enough evidence in favor of what the actual truth is.

As for having thoughts or worries about the future, that's kind of what makes people (and governments, etc.) plan for the future and come up with possible strategies or thought scenarios, to be better prepared for potential problems. Maybe things happen the way they thought, or perhaps they don't. Planning ahead is not the same as having a vision or a prediction of the future. it's just planning for something that could potentially happen somewhere down the line. Some of it can seem like fiction - and most of it probably ends up being fiction. You hope for the best and plan for the worst.

It's kind of like going outside on a sunny day when there's a chance of rain.
If you don't want to get wet, you plan ahead and bring an umbrella. If it rains, you're all good. If it doesn't rain - then at least you were prepared.
If you don't plan ahead, maybe it won't rain and you'll just feel silly for thinking you had to bring an umbrella on a sunny day. If it does rain, perhaps you find shelter in time to not get wet. Maybe you're stuck under the shelter for a while, instead of being able to go home. Or maybe the rain starts all of a sudden and makes you wet, and there's no shelter, so you immediately regret you didn't have that umbrella. But at least you could learn something from the experience, and bring an umbrella the next time there's a chance of rain.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 21st Apr 2020 at 2:58 AM
I would suggest getting your news from someplace other than youtube. Go with verified sources - trust those with expertise and study history. Expertise means someone has put in years studying a problem and has experience in it - those are the folks at the WHO, the CDC, and the like. Those are not random people on youtube who are just entertaining themselves and others. Then there is history. Pandemics have happened every so often. You can look up the history and see that what we're experiencing now is not dissimilar to other pandemics such as cholera, the black death, the influenza outbreak of 1918, consumption, and others, in terms of our we slowly develop immunity to a virus and there is a need to isolate from one another.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 21st Apr 2020 at 4:52 PM
Being critical to the used sources is a key part. If you can't tie something back to a source (like a scientific paper or a witness report from a trustworthy source or whatever) ito verify the claims someone make, the claims made may not be worth anything at all. Even scientific papers can have flaws in them - which is the reason they're both peer-reviewed and oftentimes also cross-referenced with other scientific papers through larger studies. Even then there could be flaws, but at least science is meant to be open to further investigations.

Some news sites spread false information, or parrot false information from bad sources. If you don't pay some attention to where they get their information from, you may come to believe in false claims and bad information. Even more so with some Youtube channels. If they don't list their sources, or list questionable sources, you may want to think twice (or more) before you start believing in their claims.
Instructor
#16 Old 28th Apr 2020 at 6:31 PM
Schools closed unitl 24 May.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DoVdNqGWSc

Loosening the restrictions on sport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdzYFYnnhQs

Stage 2 of lifting the restrictions includes reopening home improvement stores at weekends and reopening hotels, guest houses, museums, art galleries and libraries. Tomorrow the Prime Minister will inform us about whether stage 2 will be implemented or not.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#17 Old 28th Apr 2020 at 7:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VerDeTerre
I would suggest getting your news from someplace other than youtube. Go with verified sources - trust those with expertise and study history. Expertise means someone has put in years studying a problem and has experience in it - those are the folks at the WHO, the CDC, and the like. Those are not random people on youtube who are just entertaining themselves and others. Then there is history. Pandemics have happened every so often. You can look up the history and see that what we're experiencing now is not dissimilar to other pandemics such as cholera, the black death, the influenza outbreak of 1918, consumption, and others, in terms of our we slowly develop immunity to a virus and there is a need to isolate from one another.


I'm an independent thinker, not a hive mind participant which anyone can see the obvious result of if observant. And no, I'm not referring to disagrees or any other button responses.

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 28th Apr 2020 at 10:05 PM
The thing about being an independent thinker is that it's important to be aware of the fact that it doesn't make that independent thinker immune to doing stupid things or believing in something that's factually wrong. If everyone else runs away from a fire, it's a bad idea to run straight into it (unless you are properly protected and knowing what you're doing - like being part of a trained fire brigade, or like healthcare personnel neck-deep in the current crisis).

Youtube videos like the kind above often tend to be heavily biased toward an opinion or thought pattern. They may present something that seem very trustworthy on the surface, but often that has to do with how it's presented, more so than the actual facts (or fiction) presented. So if they don't even list source material, their case is rather weak to start with.

There's a lot of cause-and-effect in all of what's happening now. The rules put in place are there primarily to protect people, especially people in vulnerable positions, like essential workers in healthcare, the food industry, cleaning staff, and so on - if enough of them in one area get sick and are put out of will work then this will eventually create a cascade effect of sick people and not enough people to fill their roles. Likewise, keeping those with an already vulnerable health situation out of the ICU is probably a good idea, because if people who seemingly have good health to start with end up in the ICU, you don't want a huge wave of people with an already bad health situation on top of that in the ICU.

If one person thinks "I'm not going to bother following the rules because I don't like them" - then maybe it won't hurt anyone (unless that person gets sick and ends up infecting several other people), but if everyone thinks like that, it's going to cause a lot of problems. A truly individual thinker would realize that sometimes they have to put in an effort to protect the "hive" they live in by doing something that's mutually beneficial to themselves and others. If every bee was an individual thinker with their own opinion on how to run things, I doubt they'd be able to make a lot of honey (speaking of hive minds - bee scouts looking for potential new nests behave a little bit like those running for leading positions in human populations when they get back to the other bees and do a little wiggly-dance with very exact movements to show the position of that nest site - but the other bees fact-check the claims about the potential nest sites before deciding where to move, so they're smart enough to not believe everything on heresay. I think ants have some similar tactics, at least when it comes to showing positions to the rest of the hive. Actual hive minds may not be quite as hive-minded as you think, and there is some logic to their behavior if you look deeper than just the surface level).

But whether the plans to quench down the infection rate is working is a bit touch-and-go at the moment, it seems. I guess it depends on where you live. Where I live, we've for now managed to "flatten the curve" and haven't had an extreme pressure on the ICUs because most people put in an effort when we saw a sudden rise in covid cases. We still have areas where there haven't been confirmed cases or aren't any current cases. We haven't had to use extreme measures like some countries, because people are generally willing to put in an effort without complaining too much, because people understand more of the risks and benefits.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#19 Old 29th Apr 2020 at 1:03 AM
It's funny how some assume that I am disagreeing with being careful as a safety precaution while completely ignoring what I specifically said my motive is in hope that others think more critically. And those who are already spiritually aware to stay close to Him. Concerning the subject matter, "What is happening around the world?" is where my focus was before it got hi-jacked about what some claim to think I am saying instead of asking for clarification since sometimes words don't always portray what I'm trying to say. Not to mention I don't always go into detail about what I'm disagreeing to which apparently leaves room for misjudgment. Misinterpret all you want, put words into my mouth all you want because that's what some people do. Instigators, manipulators, psychology twisters, or whatever you want to call it. It is what it is.

End of Story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4aF_DhEfsE

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
Mad Poster
#20 Old 29th Apr 2020 at 2:15 AM
Depends on which him you're refering to, I guess... Someone in roughly half the human population? Or one of the many supposedly male divine spiritual figments of human imagination? Just curious, because there are a lot to choose from. If it's the latter, then personally I'm pretty much critical to anything that has no actual viable proof tied to it. But you do you when it comes to such matters.

I don't personally hold a belief in anything divine or spiritual. I think a human brain is more than capable of making its owner think there is something divine or spiritual out there, though. Someone can experience something "divine" through various forms of manipulation without anything actually happening to them, or with the right/wrong influence make them believe in something they wouldn't otherwise believe in. As far as I know, it's similar mechanisms that make people believe in conspiracies and what have you.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#21 Old 29th Apr 2020 at 7:17 PM
Why US outsourced bat virus research to Wuhan
https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/why-u...earch-to-wuhan/

Project Information (NIH)
https://projectreporter.nih.gov/pro...4&icde=49508764

US government lifts ban on risky pathogen research
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-08837-7

Fauci’s NIAID Funded Wuhan Lab Scientists To Research Bat Coronavirus
https://nationalfile.com/faucis-nia...at-coronavirus/

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Framework for Guiding Funding Decisions about Proposed Research Involving Enhanced Potential Pandemic Pathogens
https://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/Documents/p3co.pdf

Donald Trump halts WHO funding blaming handling of China's covid-19 outbreak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLfF4b53n38

Notice Announcing the Removal of the Funding Pause for Gain-of-Function Research Projects
https://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide...-OD-17-071.html

===

How to Protect Yourself & Others (CDC)
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...prevention.html
"The best way to prevent illness is to avoid being exposed to this virus."
Right, so staying home unless necessary to go out helps yet there's no fool proof way of not contracting the virus when out anyway following these recommendations. I'll explain later.

"The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person."
Keywords: IS THOUGHT. Odd wording and seems like guesswork than a straight yes, the virus is spread mainly from person-to-person. Not to mention the online documents of this PPP being studied here in the USA back in 2015 before getting transferred to Wuhan, China and they don't know for sure? Some who are paying attention can do their own research on the CDC, WHO, NIH, HHS, NIAID, UN, etc.

"Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks.
These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."
Right, but they completely leave out the part that nose/mouth masks are completely useless when used alone. Because all the critical thinkers already figured out to protect their eyes too by wearing non splash googles. If an infected person without a face covering were to cough or sneeze and that lingered in the air for awhile and someone walked right through that infected mist only wearing a face mask would still get infected. When used properly, gloves can be good to use as well. And some people go the extra mile by covering their whole body.

"Some recent studies have suggested that COVID-19 may be spread by people who are not showing symptoms."
Keywords: SUGGESTED and MAY BE
Again, odd wording which seems to imply more uncertainty with the possible intent to scare people into submission and do their bidding. Psychological warfare. Also, this method possibly may be how some would be deceived into taking the mark of the beast in the end times and/or worship the false messiah taking the mark of the beast by their lack of wisdom.
Psychological Warfare Example: https://www.redstate.com/jeffc/2020/03/27/807453/
"By working together and by being good neighbors, we are going to get through this. I want to thank you for calling the covid-19 reporting hotline. The purpose of this line is to report observations of noncompliance with restrictions on workplace and public gatherings that Kentucky has taken to stop the spread of the Coronavirus and keep your family safe.” -Governor Andy Beshear
That sounds good...right? Hmm...testing out how many are willing to tattletell which I know will have more of a use in the end times for those who will not comply and worship the false messiah who will pretend to be Jesus Christ in Jerusalem. This one world government/new world order is coming along according to prophecy as all the watchers see it unfold gradually.

"The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected."
Right, that seems logical and the right thing to do despite admitting it's uncertain if asymptomatic individuals (possibly not infected individuals) are a cause of transmission for this virus. Why does these studies have no conclusive evidence? The CDC should know right or what's the point of these studies that suggest and well...may be this is how it could spread?

Despite me picking up on inconsistencies, doesn't mean I or that I think others shouldn't take their own safety precautions seriously. Better safe than sorry. Just be smart about it.

===

Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

Is hydroxychloroquine effective for COVID-19?
https://www.drugs.com/medical-answe...vid-19-3536024/

Trump: Malaria drug could be virus 'game changer'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdYrN3BWTM

Because I'm Fragile...but I'm not "that" fragile.
Instructor
#22 Old 30th Apr 2020 at 7:20 PM
Stage 2 to be implemented on 4 May. It involves opening hotels, shopping malls, some cultural institutions (excluding theatres and cinemas), large home improvement and furniture stores etc. but under strict sanitary conditions. Stage 3 will be anounced in about two weeks or earlier and it involves further restriction lifting i.e. opening beauty and hairdresser salons, tattoo parlours and restaurants. Mandatory face covering and a two-metre distance in public places still in force. Limited number of people allowed in public places like shops, churches, shopping malls, libraries, museums and public transport. Nurseries and kindergartens may allow classes for a limited number of children if their parents are unable to take care of them because of workload. Schools, univerisites and borders remain closed. International flights and rail transport suspended until further notice.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 30th Apr 2020 at 10:48 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 30th Apr 2020 at 11:40 PM.
Quote:
"Some recent studies have suggested that COVID-19 may be spread by people who are not showing symptoms."
Keywords: SUGGESTED and MAY BE


There will always be people during an outbreak of disease who show few to no symptoms but carry the virus in their respiratory system (fluids in airways/nose/mouth). They don't know they are sick, so they act as if they're not sick. Especially when the incubation period is long (for Covid it seems to be anything from a few days up to 2-3 weeks).

So I'm not at all surprised. It's often how cold and flu viruses are spread around, too. If someone with Covid who don't even know they're sick sneezes in their hand, then start touching door handles and other items where the virus can hang out for a few minutes to days until an unsuspecting victim comes by and touches that same surface, this person doesn't wash their hands but instead touches their face, the virus has free access to their nose/mouth, and can easily make that person sick. That same not-particularly-sick person might as well sneeze that unsuspecting victim straight in the face, because it has the same effect.

I've read quite a few medical articles and scientific studies the past years. They tend to use that kind of somewhat uncertain language because most of the time they can't say anything with 100% certainty - the thing about science is that at the start of investigations into a new virus, disease, medical hypothesis, or whatever it is, there's no such thing as 100% certainty. You can't say with absolute certainty that this thing is true and that thing isn't, until there is enough evidence to back up the hypothesis.

Quote:
"The best way to prevent illness is to avoid being exposed to this virus."

The statement is technically true, but also difficult to carry through in its very essence. Sooner or later there could be a situation where you are exposed to the virus without being aware of it (which may not be until you actually get sick). Also, people can't stay home and "relatively safe" forever. Halting large parts of the world is eventually going to create a lot of problems.

There really is no hope to completely quench the virus anymore. What governments around the world are trying to do is to keep the number of infected and the number of currently sick people as low as possible so as not to overflow the capacity of hospitals. Scientists are frantically trying to come up with a vaccine, and finding (preferably already existing) medications that could potentially make the progress of the disease milder.

Quote:
"The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person."

Because that's mainly how viruses spread. Either directly (sneezing or coughing on someone else), or indirectly (touching surfaces exposed to the virus). There has been some hypotheses going around that the virus can in some cases be airborne, but that's still uncertain. Most viruses like this spread through droplets originating from the respiratory system (coughing, sneezing, spittle, snot). The 1-2 meter (3-6 ft?) distance is set because that's roughly how far a sneeze/cough is thought to travel, and to make people be aware to keep distance (well, a sneeze can potentially travel around 4-6 meters according to Mythbusters, but that distance wouldn't be so easy to keep...).

Quote:
"The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected."

Droplets. You know, the fluid that sprouts from your mouth when you cough/sneeze.

- Why is it generally recommended to if possible cough or sneeze into a paper towel that you throw away (and then to wash your hands, cause otherwise eww, filthy hands)? Because that's generally how you cut that 1-6 meters of a sneeze/cough short and contain the droplets, so people don't get infected (and wash your hands so there isn't any snot left to touch door hadnles and the like with). And no, this isn't a Covid thing, you're supposed to do this when you have a cold/the flu, too.
(By the way, the whole "sneeze in the crook of your arm" is only when you don't have a paper towel, since the virus will hang out on your clothes the rest of the day, and that's a bit unhygienic).

- Why is it/is it not recommended to use masks? They can be of some help when someone is sick or suspected infected (contain droplets) to protect others, and they protect health care personnel (because if they get sick who's supposed to take care of the sick people?) But if everyone who is most likely healthy use the medical grade masks, there are too few left for those who actually need them (health care personnel and sick people). Imagine 2-3 billion people using one mask each every single day. Or two. Or three. For maybe 2-3 months.

- Why are the rules so different from place to place? It depends on the country, possibly also the degree of severity. Where I live, masks are not recommended to use unless you are sick with covid or work as health care personnel around these sick people.

There is a lot of conflicting advice going around, which can be confusing. The best you can do is to follow general advice in your area, especially the advice that seems to be the same most places. Most of it tends to have basis in reality, but I guess it depends on where you live. Some countries are a bit worse than others, but I guess they don't trust their inhabitants enough. Usually, this trust issue is what causes problems. People don't like being forced to do anything, and are more likely to do stupid things if they're angry at the system or afraid. Knowledge based in science and reality is often the best "medicine" against uncertainty. For instance, if you know why and when masks and gloves can be ineffective, it's easier to know when to use them or why it's not a good idea in some cases. If you know what soap or alcohol-based antibac does to the virus, you're more likely to do proper hand hygiene.

Quote:
Why do these studies have no conclusive evidence?

It is quite clear to me that you haven't read up that much on scientific studies and how they work. The thing about medical science is that in a lot of cases there isn't a black and white answer. Even established scientific theories (which by the way aren't a "I have a theory" kind of theory, but rather as close to scientific fact as you can come) are only true until proven otherwise (You'd be hard put to disprove them, but there's nothing to say you can't if there's overwhelming evidence).

Medical science is one of the areas where we're barely scratching the surface. Do you honestly expect 100% certain results after less than 5 months of research? When several new medications usually aren't approved for human use until after maybe 5-10 years? Medical research takes time. Even medical research that's hit the fast-forward button takes time. A lot of the current hypotheses are based around how other Corona viruses behave, and around general knowledge surrounding similar types of diseases (cold/flu and upper/lower respiratory infections). We don't even know the full list of symptoms yet, let alone why it gives mild disease to some people and kills others. There's a lot of hypotheses going around, lots of research, lots of published and unpublished studies (most of them short-time studies and case studies) and news sites are especially bad at reporting these, so you get all of them in a large soup of information along with general advice based on similar diseases and poorly done interviews with doctors and scientists whoh ave their own opinion about things, and eventually none of it makes much sense.
Best you can do is to stick to the general advice, really. If it works for keeping healthy from cold/flu (washing hands, not touching face, keeping distance, keeping at home when you're sick), it probably also helps against Covid.

Bottom line is that there is a lot of things going on in research, and a lot of it is confusing, perhaps especially to those who don't have some sort of medical or scientific education or knowledge base, and are maybe a bit more equipped to filter the information. You kind of need to know how scientific studies are ranged and how they in general work, and that you can't always base everything off of a single study. Studies can have glaring flaws or inconsistencies, and some are even mildly to heavily biased depending on who are behind them - that's why in science an unbiased source should always be able to re-test a hypothesis under the same circumstances.

A healthy relation to skepticism is good, but I don't question or investigate absolutely everything (a person can go crazy from less). In my line of work, applying general knowledge from what has been researched in plentiful throughout several years is in most cases all well and good. There are still a lot of cases where best practice can be questioned, and where more medical research is needed, or where we simply don't know enough yet. There are cases where established "theories" are standing on shaky ground because other hypotheses show those "theories" were wrong all along. It's part of how medical science progresses. In science, being willing to admit you don't know, or even that you could be wrong about the first hypothesis is a good thing. Wanting to find an unbiased truth should be the goal (though humans are humans, and not everyone is willing to be unbiased if something goes against their original belief).

Quote:
Hmm...testing out how many are willing to tattletell which I know will have more of a use in the end times for those who will not comply and worship the false messiah who will pretend to be Jesus Christ in Jerusalem. This one world government/new world order is coming along according to prophecy as all the watchers see it unfold gradually.


If this is part of how you think, then welcome to the herd mentality of those who for some reason believe in the deranged tellings from a 2000++ year old collection of stories from a time of horribly outdated morality, failed prophecies, and scare propaganda to make people stop believing in multiple divinities. But you do you, I guess. Just be aware that if you view yourself as an individual thinker, believing in the apocalypse stories and all that jazz could maaaaaybe be a sign that you're not an individual thinker after all.

And because he's briefly mentioned (honestly, why people choose to listen to this guy is still a mystery to me), Donald Trump has about as much medical training as a toddler with a doctor play set, and what he says (or doesn't) sways about as often as the opinion of a toddler in their most terrible two's. What that guy says is iffy at best, especially now, and he has a quite loose relationship with truth and opinions, sometimes treating his own personal opinions as truth even when he's clearly wrong. Whenever he actually does something useful I always have a strong hunch it's not his idea at all. Let's just say I'm glad he's not the leader in my country, and I'm honestly surprised the US is still standing (perhaps not thanks to him, though)...

---

Anyhow, I'm quite relieved I live where I live, because while we have had a lot of restrictions, it's not been anywhere near as bad as a lot of other places. The politicians don't have quite the same agendas here as they seem to have in the US, so they're a bit more forthcoming with information and such. I think the reason why people in for instance the US are seeing a lot of conspracies in all of what's happening is that they're used to question what the politicians say or do all the time, because there is so little trust to be had under normal circumstances. Politicians lie here too, but usually it's mostly politics. When push comes to shove, they tend to quit their usual squabbles and do something sensible. It's not a commom situation for the politicians, either. They need to weigh all the protective measures up against all the problems those measures cause.

I may not be a doctor or medical scientist, but I am a nurse, and I do work in an elderly care facility, so I know how bad it can get when we have garden-variety infections going around the building. Flu and cold is very difficult to contain, and the norovirus is basically "isolate cases, protective gear, lockdown against visitors if it gets too bad, and hope for the best" because otherwise it takes several rounds (rarely deadly even in the elderly, but quite contageous). I sincerely hope Covid keeps FAR, FAR away from where I work, because even with the seasonal viruses we've had personnel shortage at times (Covid would most likely be a lot worse), and I can't imagine how awful it would be to use protective clothing if there's an equipment shortage where we'd have to wear the same set for an entire shift (it's a pain to wear protective clothing for even an hour or two - like having your own personal sauna, especially in the summer - and I can't imagine how bad an entire shift would be. But I guess to those who are in the middle of all of this they'd rather spend the whole shift in a personal sauna than risk getting sick).

And before anyone asks, why is it so important to keep the virus out of elderly care facilities (when maybe the elderly don't have a lot of time left anyway, some would say)? Well - there already is a personnel shortage in such facilities - too few nurses, too few nursing assistants with health education, sometimes even too few assistants - and if those get sick, who's left to run the facility? And if hospitals don't have enough protective equipment, and the healthcare personnel gets sick - who's left to take care of all the sick people?

Anyway, be careful with believing in conspiracy theories. There's a lot of them going around now, and they could easily be fabricated. Most likely it's those behind the conspiracy theory who have a hidden agenda, either political or otherwise.
Mad Poster
#24 Old 1st May 2020 at 5:00 AM
Nicely put, Simmer 22 - so thorough! I would like to add one small detail, droplets also come from people as they talk and breath. So even if they aren't coughing and sneezing, it's important to wear a mask to not infect others.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Mad Poster
#25 Old 1st May 2020 at 3:05 PM
^ That is true, but most of the time those droplets don't travel quite as fast or violently as a sneeze/cough.

Whether or not to use a mask is debated, and it's difficult to give a definite answer. If you are sick or working around sick people, then yes - masks can be very helpful. If you are healthy and not working around sick people, wearing a mask technically has little to no effect. If you have been exposed to the virus but aren't showing symptoms and it's uncertain whether or not you are infected, it depends on the situation. The most important thing is to cover your mouth/nose when sneezing/coughing, and keep some distance to people so droplets from talking/breathing won't be a problem.

Home-made masks? Maybe, but they need to either be disposable or washable at high temperatures if reusable (as a general rule, personal uniforms in healthcare is recommended to wash at minimum 60 C, but preferably up toward 80-95 C, don't ask me to convert to F), or they'll just harbour more viruses (or bacteria). Whether you need medical-grade masks? Depends. Usually not, unless you're health care personnel working with sick/infected/potentially infected people, or are sick and/or are asked to wear a mask by healthcare personnel during transport, a hospital stay, etc.

Different countries have different policies when it comes to masks. Where I live, we're not told to wear masks as long as we're healthy, just to follow the advice on distance and do proper hand hygiene and all that. In some other countries you may not be allowed to go outside without a mask, and I can't speak for those places.

- Wearing the same mask for several hours could wear down the mask's ability to protect you (it gets damp with your breath and sweat)
- Changing masks with dirty hands could introduce germs to the inside of the new mask.
- Putting a mask on and taking it off multiple times (especially if your hands aren't clean) can also render the mask useless, as the inside can end up being exposed when you take the mask off.
- Touching the (dirty) outside (or inside, if you're wearing the mask because you're sick) of the mask without doing hand hygiene can spread germs.

And while we're at the theme of why medical gear may be causing problems - some of same is true for gloves. If you wear gloves, your hands may be "clean" for a time, but the outside of the gloves is about as dirty as your hands would've been, and since you're not washing your hands you could end up spreading germs everywhere. Taking off the gloves improperly could mean your hands get exposed, so always do hand-hygiene immediately after removing gloves (or don't wear them - in a lot of cases it's better to not use gloves and do proper hand-hygiene instead, as you're a bit more aware as to where your hands have been).

The thing is, medical equipment - even something seemingly as simple as a mask or gloves - could be used in the wrong place, at the wrong time, in the wrong way by someone who doesn't know any better.

So should you ask people to use masks and gloves when you know a number of them probably will at some point use this equipment wrongly, and could end up causing some trouble? Should you ask people to wear masks and gloves when there is a severe equipment shortage and you need everything at hand for medial institutions? It's something each country has to weigh the consequences of, I guess.
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