Hi everyone.

Like most people, I love the Sims 2, and I agree with the general consensus that it's probably the best Sims game to date. However, I've been playing it a lot these past few days and I have developed a really big pet peeve..

I enjoy how mostly everything was handled in this game, except for the romance aspiration. I just simply can't get over it. Every other aspiration leaves room for you to choose whether your sim is a good or bad person, but the romance aspiration pretty much forces whichever sim has it to be a dirty underhanded cheater. You can of course not fulfill their cheating wants and "train" them to roll them less often, or even just change their aspiration altogether but both of those kind of feel like they're going against their character.. And I wish I didn't have to change a sim's aspiration entirely to make the game enjoyable because there's already limited options for variety in that regard.

I get that lots of people enjoy the type of gameplay and drama romance sims generate, I guess I just wish it wasn't in the form of an entire aspiration, so many sims and townies end up being romance sims, and so many times I'd be trying to find a partner for my legacy sim/s only to find out the person they fell for was romance and immediately get sour.

This is the one thing where I have to say I love the sims 4's way of handling it. They split the aspiration into monogamous and serial romantics. I know the sims 2 probably couldn't do something like this due to technical limitations of the time but that's what makes me wish they didn't make a choice at all. It could have just been that "Romance sims crave lots of lovin'" without the "and with as many different sims as they can find" part.

Any others out there who don't really want cheaters in their game (other than for an odd story here and there)? Those of you who feel that way, I'm curious, how do you play with the romance aspiration, if at all?

I also really didn't like how romance sims were basically all about cheating, until I discovered MidgeTheTree's (I think it's theirs?) "Ask to just be friends" mod. Now, romance sims can just go on a couple of quick dates, then ask them to just be friends and fulfill the multiple makeout and woohoo wants without becoming straight up cheaters. This does still open up the wants panel to have many lovers wants but I've seen those so little I think those who do roll it might as well be cheaters tbh.

In my own game, I like to intepret my Romance sims (the ones who aren't just terrible people) as people who prefer more open relationships and less serious boundaries, but with the consent of everyone involved. I feel like Bella Goth being a Romance sim just doesn't work under the Maxis guidelines, for example.

I've actually found it very easy to play Romance sims who make one grand passion their life's work; or ones who play the field in their youth until they meet the one they keep coming back to, and then (the occasional flirt apart; no one's perfect) are faithful to. I'm a monogamist, myself, and feel that a period of experimentation in my youth prepared me for it much better than rigid standards ever did all the multi-divorcees from my high school class, who were determined to remain virgins till they met Mr. Right, and were therefore inclined to see Mr. Right in every guy they found attractive.

Faithfulness, after all, consists of your chosen actions; there's no merit to it if you're never confronted by urges to be unfaithful, which is all the wants which upset you need to represent.

You can mod jealousy, if hypocrisy bugs you.

Every single aspiration can be played in a number of different ways, and every neighborhood can contain a broad spectrum of moral approaches to each aspiration. We choose how we play and how we interpret game mechanics. Very little is forced upon us by the exigencies of the program.

My romance sims make up a relatively small number - I have a very big hood (well, 2 of them) - and they simply keep each other busy.

I incidentally don't have a lot of romance sims right now, some secondary aspiration ones and I feel that makes for a nice balance. I do interpret my romance sims differently. Most of them are actually monogamous in my game. Sometimes they roll the woohoo with different sims kind of want, but I trained them so well it doesn't happen that much and I can easily chalk it up to fantasizing. I have more ACR cheating sims from other aspirations than romance sims.

I do get what you mean though. Sometimes I also get frustrated when one of my sims keeps rolling these wants and they seemed perfectly happy in a monogamous faithful relationship.

I will first say I play a heavily modded game and I use the settings in ACR to further modify jealousy so it's more individual. For the most part, I let a Romance Sims grouchy/nice points determine how I play them. A really nice Sim I will play as a looking for love kind of Sim and once they find it they become devoted to their one true love. If they are a not so nice Sim then I play them a bit like a narcissist, one who only cares about their own feelings and no one else's. I am not a fan of cheating and I do use the visitor controller to keep married Sims at home when my Romance sims go to the club trolling.

I've got a very successful Sim right now who is at Rock God status and throws lavish parties on his roof terrace where things usually get a bit wild. Getting an invite to one of his parties might hold a bit of a consequence. I've got a Fortune sim though who is determined she will get him to the alter eventually. We'll see if she succeeds.

I had written off Romance sims in my own game until I found Cyjon's Less Jealousy. Since installing it, I might have more fun with my Romance sims than with anyone else. It never made any sense for sims to freak out the way they do when they are not even in a committed relationship of any kind.

I also recommend Pescado's romancemod, which works well alongside the above.

And also, as someone else mentioned, Midge the Tree's “Just Be Friends” Social, for when you have a sim who wants to settle down with a single partner.

For me, I suppose the turning point was realizing that it wasn't the Romance sims who were "broken" but the jealousy system. Yes, Romance sims can and will still roll up wants to cheat on committed partners from time to time, but fixing the jealousy system into something sane and reasonable turned playing Romance sims from something painful into something truly enjoyable. And with fixed jealousy, I can interpret those "cheating" wants as desires to explore polyamory. Maybe that's not something the sim's current partner would be into, but then it's just like any want that affects a sim's partner; I often have sims roll wants for babies that their partners wouldn't want either (or might actively fear!), so then I have to decide if I should just ignore the want or explore other options (alien abduction, etc).

I understand what you mean, and I have all of the aforementioned mods in my game (although not for this reason) already. I just feel like open relationships and polyamory is something that should be possible in the game, but not.. as an entire aspiration, I guess? Polyamory and open relationships are a far more niche concept compared to knowledge, popularity, family, etc... I guess I feel like, since we've already got so few aspirations, and they are so important to the general storytelling and character of our sims, this particular one forces me into a niche that I'm not really very interested in and I wish it gave me more leeway to play how I'd like to. Right now, even though it might sound really silly, I feel like avoiding their cheating and "sleep with X amount of sims" wants is almost like running away from what the sim actually wants to be and it kind of ruins my immersion.

I know it can't be changed now since the game is no longer in development and modding aspirations is pretty much impossible, I guess I just really wanted to get this off my chest. It's like my only gripe with the sims 2, but it's been a bit of a big one these days.

Edit:

Thank you for your well thought out post. I really like your interpretation of the wants as urges that need to be overcome (or acted upon). I think you make really good points, but it mostly applies to faithfulness- In real life, I'm not a firm believer of waiting for "Mr. Right" but I personally, would rather break up with someone first if I wanted to try getting with someone else. This is definitely a way you can play romance sims, but it kind of falls apart when they roll so many "have X amount of loves at once" or "woohoo with X amount of sims" kind of wants. They don't strike me as wanting to experiment so they can eventually find the one, they just want to sleep around.. with as many different people.. I guess that's what kills it for me. Everything from the way the aspiration is described to the wants and fears tells me these types of sims want nothing more but to sleep around as much as possible, and that rubs me the wrong way.

I am a fan of Romance Sims, he or she have a hidden side, that if you play them long enough you will find out what it is, It is more to a Romance Sims than just wanting to Woohoo all the time.
They will be that way only if you play them as such, surprisingly they have a love for children even those they have a fear of having children, and once they have a child they are excellent fathers or mothers.

Don Lothario started out as a Romance Sims in Pleasantview he was not a lazy Sims he love going to work and learning his skill, house cleaning was not his thing he hated cleaning his lot.
But one of his want was children and getting married, it was never a fear in my game, I one day allow Don to get married ( I created a new Sims in Body Shop to be his Sims wife )
Since his roots travel a bit too far around town with other female Sims, the word was out of his ways so he needed a fresh start with a new Sims.

I soon change his aspiration to a family Sims to this day Don is still married with twins, all those he was change to a family Sims he still have a some what Romance personality
But he's very faithful to his Sims wife and family. But I always have a Romance Sims in my hood to keep things rolling a good way to keep mayhem and keep other Sims on their toes.

Also not too far behind the Romance Sims Is the Pleasure Sims Nightlife Game Guide book description is the Pleasure Sims is an overlaps of Romance and Popularity Sims.
But I think in essence a Romance Sims is a lonely Sims always looking for love in the wrong places and with the wrong Sims, deep down inside he just want a true love. :lovestruc

I disagree, not all LTW (if you play to those) are centred on a romantic quest. The first romance sim I moved in wanted to be top of the sport career. I gave her family as secondary and she rolled plenty of family wants. I forgot at one point that she was romance. She didn't remind me until she turned elder. If you play by wants-which I do, it's up to you the player to pick from those wants. How is ignoring the cheating wants but filling the other wants any worse or better than purposely filling the romance wants? People may think of doing any number of things, doesn't mean they plan to carry them all out. Thinking about it and doing it are two different things. Is the sim someone who would hate to hurt others? or someone who just doesn't care? Let that be the guide. If your sim has a want to woohoo with a service sim, but also wants a party, to do a hobby and gain a skill you can't complain when you lock the service sim want and fill it while ignoring the other wants. If you don't give them a secondary aspiration that will allow them to roll other wants again you can't complain if they mostly roll romance wants -they don't have much choice because you effectively limited them. Yes it's training, but if you mostly fill the romance wants you are also training them -to roll more of those wants. You can't get away from training.

So yes romance sims can be dirty rotten cheaters but not all of them. make sure they have a secondary, fill other wants and make sure they have a variety of things to do. Some hobby wants only show up after you buy the corresponding item. I notice a lot of people saying they won't buy a piano or easel etc unless the sim rolls a skilling want, I think that's asking a lot of a non-knowledge sim. Buy it then you will see autonomous use and a likelihood of rolling corresponding wants. Sims need their prompting. The other mistake is mostly staying home + work. If you want more variety you have to take them out.

You can have a romantic faithful sim and you can have outright cheaters. I've had both. It's up to both the sim and the player. If you don't give them a chance to be anything but, they won't be.

I should mention that I pretty much never complete the cheating or polyamory wants and I do give my sims secondaries + stuff to do.. It works, and I've had some funny things happen, my most recent romance sim (one that I moved in with my legacy) was given fortune as secondary at first (cause I felt it would fit him), but later down the line he had a want to learn to cook grandma's comfort soup... I couldn't help but take it as a prompt to swap to family secondary.. And just a few moments ago he rolled a want to get married (with a corresponding fear, of course) so I think that's pretty sweet and I appreciate that it happened. But seemingly no matter what, he still keeps rolling "woohoo with X amount of different sims" wants and while I can live with it it's just a little unpleasant. I worked really hard to train him to not be the cheating/poly kind of romance sim but it seems like the game just wants them to be like that at their core...

But maybe the whole training thing takes more time than I thought. I have to admit that I don't like that I have to train them to not be cheaters in the first place and it seems to take considerably more effort than training them in other things.. The whole thing just feels like trying to distract them from cheating with as much stuff as possible honestly. Like trying to weed out the actual aspiration out of the equation

The thing about training them is once you fulfill any want no matter how minor it will trigger the other wants again. I have the hardest time with Fortune Sims over this as the moment I buy anything, no matter what it triggers all those "buy X" wants again. Same thing with Romance. You really have to keep them on the straight and narrow with one person if you want them to roll wants for that person only. Sometimes even fulfilling the "talk to" or "call to chat" wants will trigger them rolling romantic wants with another Sim.

I don't have secondary aspirations though so perhaps that is a bit different.

I guess the way I see it, every sim of any aspiration can and will roll wants that I don't like. Knowledge sims will want to "be a Zombie." Like, dude, no. You're not gonna be a zombie. Why would you want to be a zombie? There isn't even an upside to being a zombie... Family sims want a million kids. I've yet to allow a sim to have 10 children; they can have maybe 6, maximum. And Popularity sims get obsessed with having parties all the freaking time. I don't enjoy parties enough to play through them more often than the odd one in between weddings and birthdays. I was trying to think of wants Pleasure sims roll, and I guess the worst one is "stay home from work." Sometimes, like if they need more skills to get a promotion anyway, I'll let them stay home. Otherwise, out the door with you! You've got bills to pay!

It depends how you view wants. If the sim in question is kind or really in love I would say they do not want to hurt the other sim so I would view the 'wants' merely as thoughts, perhaps secret fantasies, but not things they would actually go and do. If the sim has very few nice points, acts around town as a bit of a jerk or seems to ignore their partner than maybe they would act on them.

Also I was going to post about poor maligned pleasure sims. People seem to hate them as well. :/ I made my simself Pleasure Family because I like to game and I am married with kids. But it seems everyone views them also as some kind of romance sim or party animal :/
Every aspiration is what you make of it plus the individual sim. I have one sim in my new hood who has already tried to steal two goats off her neighbour and she isn't poor and she isn't that mean. So no matter her points or her aspiration she is a bit of a jerk. If she rolled some want to cheat I would let her since it fits, so go with your sims overall character.

My own self-sim is Pleasure just because I can't stand doing things that I don't have any actual investment in. I make characters Pleasure for plenty of reasons, but usually I just see them as the type of people who want to have fun with their lives, not cheat on their partners! I don't usually group them with Romance sims for that reason.

It's a very good point I've got other Sims whose wants I completely ignore. If you fulfilled every knowledge sims want they would do nothing but see ghosts, get struck by lightning, be abducted by aliens and turn into a zombie.

I don't like Pleasure sims specifically due to the stupid wants. I hate all the juggling, visit downtown, buy a toy crap they always roll. It's been a very long time since I even attempted to play that aspiration.
On the party front Rosawyn you can also just invite one or two people over for dinner and have a successful party.

I quite like Pleasure sims, though I know a lot of people don't. My husband hates them, but I suppose he's entitled to his opinions. Even if they're wrong.


Oh, I know. Parties aren't difficult in the slightest. I once had a shy Knowledge sim get a party go "Good Time" by simply telling everyone in the room stories about computers. It's just that I really hate having that timer up on the screen for hours. It means I can't even leave the lot, ugh. I wish Popularity sims would roll "ask sim on an outing" more often, but I think it's only Pleasure sims I've seen roll that.

I used to not like Romance sims. But after some modding (especially the jealousy settings) I find them more fun to play now.

In my game, Peter Ottomas is a romance Sim who always stays faithful to his wife. (I found it a bit strange that he's romance to begin with, honestly.)



My self-Sim is usually Knowledge/Pleasure. There's no Creative aspiration, or I'd use that.

I find that Pleasure works best as a secondary aspiration.

See now for those kinds of 'wants' again I don't see them as being things they seriously want, but more like, "Wow this is interesting and I want to know more about it and I wonder how it would feel to try that out for a day". Not "I seriously want to be a zombie for the rest of my life" Although again it depends on the sim.



None of that bothers me, I view those as easy things to fill while my main focus is on something else. I would much rather tell the sim to jump on the couch for a minute to make them feel good first thing in the morning than look at 'sell masterpiece' when they have 3 creativity points, 'buy a bowling alley' or 'have a baby/engagement/grandchild' when they have Buckley's chance of any of them happening. I'm like good, go jump and have a juggle, now you are right for the day.

I've played Peter Ottomas a few times and he has always been faithful in my game too.

@joandsarah77 I enjoy reading your post # 11 I agree In my game at the time Don Lothario did not have a secondary aspiration I never had that EP in my game ( I think it was FT that gave that option ) I later purchase FT but took it out and still it's out .But even without that EP Don wants was to have a child and get marry it never came up as his fear, instead it was his wants. That one reason I said in my post #10 Romance Sims have hidden interest.

Also in your post #15 you mention Pleasure Sims I also agree with what you said, Pleasure Sims are another kind of Sims that have hidden wants they love to have object in their lot that bring them pleasure like a card table or pool table ( but not like the obsession of the fortune Sims ) They only like being out on the town because of the kind of things the town can offer for their pleasure like out at a club dancing or being a DJ, unlike the popular Sims who is out because he want more friends in his circle of friends.

One hidden thing about a pleasure Sims that I have found out with other Pleasure Sims is a "special" want for a child it seem to be always in their bubble above their head Check this picture out.
I have had this Picture of my Pleasure Sims for a year now I kept it just to prove my point of a baby is always in their mind bubble, every Pleasure Sims I have had was this way.

Click on picture to get a larger view.

I like nice Popularity Sims because they just want to make friends with everybody.

Nice Romance Sims are just like nice Popularity Sims, except that they want to take all their friends to bed. What's not to like?

As others have mentioned, it's about the way you interpret the wants, too. One of the things I love about this game is that it really gives you the room to explore character. I would've welcomed a monogamous/serial romantic distinction and do agree that the Romance aspiration could've used some more work (and Pleasure, too for that matter, but that's a whole other discussion). But remember TS4 is the fourth in the series. Consider that Eaxis was learning from their past when they did that (if only they could do this more often). Anyway, what I do love about TS2 is that you still have loads of room for interpretation and character and story. Rolling wants for "woohoo with X sims" could be interpreted as a conquest thing, sure, but it could also signal some insecurity. Like maybe your sim is just really nervous about monogamy and is questioning the idea of true love or marriage. Or perhaps they're feeling stifled, or too complacent, and like they need some variety in their life, and that want is a way to express that. Perhaps that want could be your cue to shake things up a little and spice up his love life--go on an outing, take a vacation, etc. Maybe that want/urge is a just a fleeting moment of weakness, like that sim feels like he didn't get to explore his life as much as he wanted before settling down and is just wondering what could've been. Or maybe some sims go through different phases--sometimes they're okay with settling down but in other times in their life, they want to date around. Maybe he isn't a sim that can settle down forever, but he'll go back and forth between being in a committed relationship and dating. Or maybe a traditional marriage isn't right for him; like moving in with someone and having kids might be okay, but as for actually marrying someone, well, he'll have to think about that some more.

So you know, you can interpret it in a few different ways. And you can also try using Romance as a just a secondary instead of using it as a primary. That way the sims you want to date around can do so, but it's not their primary goal. Sims can explore dating around if they want, perhaps at a certain time in life (like during college years or later in life as an elder, etc.), but it's only a phase and something they "grow out of", and you change their aspiration after a certain amount of time or when they find The One.

As for how I play Romance sims, well a bit similarly to what Peni said. I have ACR and I have set jealousy so that sims only get jealous if they are engaged or going steady (I also play with inTeen so my adults can go steady as well). It's not perfect and occasionally sims still get jealous, but I interpret that as those are the sims who naturally are more attached to others and have different expectations about relationships--especially since those who get upset tend to be Family. So that mindset works for me. And I will let/make my sims date around at least a bit before settling down--if I make them settle down--even if they aren't Romance. So all my aspirations kinda get a touch of Romance-sim syndrome, tbh. It's not uncommon for my sims to have several loves at once, again, even if they aren't Romance. If they are serious about a particular sim, then I'll let them Go Steady. Though usually my adults only Go Steady if they're going to propose. I should probably change that. Either way, I don't view my sims as cheaters; instead the only cheaters are those who are in a committed relationship and hook up with someone else or enter into another committed relationship with someone else at the same time. One of my favorite features about inTeen (that I feel is little advertised) is that sims can Go Steady with multiple partners (though they can only marry one person, unless you use other mods). I don't always use the feature, but it's nice to have in order to distinguish sims who are a little less sincere about dating around, or sims who just can't say no/handle confrontation and so they find themselves over-committing to others.

So mods do help with how I play Romance Sims. I sometimes use Romance Mod, but I don't really like the effect on townies because they get too attached. Like I said, I often let my sims date around, and they frequently date townies. But then, when I play a sim who is actually trying to settle down, they inevitably fall for a townie someone else in the hood has dated before. And that townie is overly committed to that previous sim because Romance Mod makes sims show loyalty to existing relationships. So these townies won't accept any advances from anyone else and I'm just like, 'Dude. You had one date. They're never going to call you again. Forget them!' If I really want the townie to start a relationship with someone new, I have to make them selectable and initiate things from their end. It's a bit annoying, and I've realized that I should probably only use Romance Mod with Pescado's No Instant Love. That makes it so that "Sims should no longer automatically and instantly fall in love at the first flirt. Chance of being hit with hearts now depends on attraction level and is influenced by aspiration and personality." That adds another layer to how I view Romance sims. Not only does it make it harder to fall in love, but also, with that my sims are able to date and sleep around without being seriously committed to everyone they make out or woohoo with. It allows me to be okay with Romance sims sleeping around because now all the other sims aren't all falling in love and thinking the Romance sim they're with is The One. Only the more faithful types do that.

And finally, I use Pescado's Drop Old Loves. When my sims do get married, Drop Old Loves makes it so that all other loves or crushes are removed when the sim is married. This gives sims a clean slate for their marriage and lets them just focus on their spouse. It's how I roleplay that a sim is "settling down." But it's also really interesting to see who a sim might want to fall back in love with, and often I use those wants to gauge how a sim truly feels about others. Persistent wants to fall back in love with a particular sim is a sign a sim might actually want to cheat/be with someone else. Whereas if they never think about their old loves at all, or only once in a blue moon, I take that to mean they're happy with their marriage.

I realize I've gone on a bit long, so I'll just say that, overall, I do see Romance sims as wanting more freedom and open relationships than other aspirations. But lots of them do still get married and have kids and get played like the other aspirations do. It depends on the sim and what I feel like.

That's an adoption thought/want. ^_^

That's a good way to put it about pleasure sims going out vs popularity sims going out. It's a shame you had to uninstall it, I find FT adds a lot. I love all the EP's though. :D

Who makes that?

One of the things that guides me in interpreting wants and training sims is their autonomous behavior; and here's something I've noticed about autonomous flirting: Most sims, including Romance sims, will not autonomously flirt with more than one person unless they have been directed to flirt with at least two. Among sims who have been so directed, Romance sims are by no means the only or even noticeably the most likely to autonomously flirt.

I noticed this particularly when following as many iterations of Widespot as I could. Rhett, of course, is a shameless flirt - I deliberately had him checking out everybody and gave him two lovers, and he's active and outgoing. His father Valentine is every bit as active and outgoing, and he is moreover charming as all get out (all those Charisma points make a difference!), but during development I didn't direct him to flirt with anyone (I didn't need to direct him to flirt with his wife; since they were married and both Romance sims they started kissing up each other's arms and making out as soon as I opened the lot) until after his wife died, at which point I set up the relationship with Mary. During the first day or two of play, he consistently rolls wants to Woohoo with 3 Sims and Flirt with Penny, as well as other generic Romance wants; but apart from Flirt with Penny, his specific, targeted wants tend to be for Mary: talk to Mary, dance with Mary, flirt with Mary, kiss Mary, ask Mary out. "Flirt with Penny" is only there because he made best friends with her shortly before development ended. If a player without ACR chooses to direct him to interact romantically with someone other than Mary, the man becomes a menace, flirting with anyone that moves whether directed to or not; but if he is not so directed, he will only autonomously perform romantic actions with Mary. He'll still roll wants to flirt with any woman (and sometimes man) he becomes best friends with, because that's how the want trees are structured; but he will not choose to act on those wants, under vanilla coding, unless the player directs him to cheat on Mary at least once. (I have observed the same phenomenon with Peter Ottomas - he always spends a lot of "get romantic with Samantha" wants, and I've never had an unfaithful Peter.)

Sweet little Family sim Mary, on the other hand - oh, she shocks people, and that's all on me, because I gave her two lovers, and in the absence of mods, as sure as she commits to one she will flirt with the other. Every. Single. Time. The only way to prevent it is for her to catch the one you don't want her committed to cheating and break the love state - and if she's ever allowed to rebuild that friendship, she'll start wanting to fall back in love and may well start flirting on her own again. I gave the Nice Family Girl two lovers on purpose, to shake up expectations, and hoo boy did that work - she is an ardent little minx! And her wants panel will be full of wants that are (in an unmodded game) mutually incompatible, as she wants to commit to both of them; and in neither her autonomous behavior nor her wants panel will she willingly give up either.

Once you understand how the want trees work, and what situations trigger certain wants, you'll find you can take that into account when interpreting want panels, and will understand your sims better.

I always argue for the viability of all the aspirations, because they are in fact all viable and the problems people have with them are universally problems of perspective; but it's also true that if you don't have fun playing an aspiration, it's fairly easy to avoid playing that aspiration. Nothing requires that you have any Romance sims in your game at all. Everything in this game is about choice; even the problems we have with the game. So I'm not trying to talk you into liking them if they're not your cup of tea, just trying to give you a basis for figuring out how to enjoy playing them if you wish to play all the aspirations.