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The ModFather
retired moderator
#26 Old 31st Aug 2005 at 7:05 PM
Lethe_s, you explanation is perfectly clear (thanks for taking care of these threads, while JWoods and I can't connect...).

Grapholina, the meaning of my phrase (that is quite obscure, I agree) is mainly the following:
Usually, when we create a normal, stand-alone object, we create a map and then we create a texture that would fit the map.
When you are mapping an object enslaved to a Repository, the process is inverse: you already have a texture (created using the principles pointed out by Lethe_s), and you have to create a map that fits the existing texture.
Therefore, after you have created a starting UVmap (box, planar or whatever), you have to move/rotate/scale the various parts in order to position them over the right portion of the existing Repository texture.

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
retired moderator
#27 Old 31st Aug 2005 at 7:33 PM
Got it. I guess now I'll go try it.

Lethe_S, thank you so much for taking the time to help me understand. And, Numenor, don't you worry about not being able to be here 24/7. I'm sure no one is going to keel over and die if they don't get an answer right away. Including me!

I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me. I'm a fanatic about learning new things, only sometimes, I just don't get it the first go round.
retired moderator
#28 Old 31st Aug 2005 at 10:44 PM Last edited by Grapholina : 1st Sep 2005 at 1:28 PM.
Well, darn it. I've tried this a total of 5 times and it still will not work right. The sofa is the repository object and the loveseat the slave. As you can see from the attached pic, the loveseat is picking up the pillows, but not the sofa fabric. Instead... it is picking up the fabric colors from the original base object (even though the sofa isn't).

What am I doing wrong?

Edit: Okay, I'm almost to the point of giving up. I'm on my 12th try and I still cannot get it right. No matter what I do, including changing base objects, the pillows pick up, but the fabric of the sofa will not show up, and instead I get the base object's fabrics. All of them. Interesting, though, the loveseat's thumbnail in the catalog is textured correctly.

If someone would please take a look at my object and try to tell me what I'm doing wrong, I would really appreciate it.
Screenshots
Fluffy
retired moderator
#29 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 3:39 PM
Grapholina,
I'm assuming you have two meshes or 'groups': one for the pillows, and one for the sofa.
and you're obviously doing everything right for the pillow mesh
now it's just a matter of getting the same method to work for the sofa
Did you make a seperate uv-map and texture map for the pillows and sofa, or did you uv-map everything to one texture image?

if you uv-mapped everything to the same texture image,
make sure that all your gmdc's, geometric node entries, shape entries, etc, point to that same texture image, this means having two groups called 'pillow' or something

if you chose two texture images, use exactly the same method as you did for the pillows, but replace every 'pillow' with 'sofa' (or whatever you named it)

and if you're really at your wit's end, upload, and I'll take a look at it
retired moderator
#30 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 5:15 PM Last edited by Grapholina : 1st Sep 2005 at 7:10 PM. Reason: Included attachment
Edit: I uploaded the darned mesh :smash: :smash:

I thank you for taking a look at this. I just want to know what it is I'm doing wrong.

Here's what I did. I used the Borococco(?) sofa for my base. My base had 2 groups (frame and fabric), so I kept them to simplify matters. The pillows is the frame and the fabric is the actual sofa.

Everything works fine with the sofa.

Next, I use the Borococco loveseat for my loveseat mesh. That base only has one texture image, the frame (because it uses the sofa's fabrics).

I map again the loveseat pillows and loveseat (2 maps, 2 groups). I import my new GMDC for the loveseat, I follow all directions for the repository technique, and then I put both the loveseat and sofa in my Downloads folder.

When viewing the catalog images, my meshes look fine. Correct texture for the pillows and couches.

When I put them on a lot, the sofa works, but the loveseat only picks up the pillows. The fabric, as you can see from my picture above, belongs to the Boroccoco loveseat.

I have been extremely careful not to make any typos or leave anything out. I've tried this so many times that I can do it in my sleep. I'm really frustrated, because I have NO idea what I am missing or doing wrong.

I've also tried various things on my own, just to try something, and for the most part I got no results, and one crash.

I was looking at the Moroccan chair that somebody made for the Moroccan Sofa and Loveseat. That chair has no images at all. Could this be my problem, that I need to delete the loveseat's shadows and all?

GRRRRRR!
Fluffy
retired moderator
#31 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 6:00 PM
Grapholina,
I think I found your problem (or at least part of it )
I can't really be sure, without having the repository object as well,
but if you look in your GeometricNode, pull down the blocklist to number 8,
you'll see that the fabric still refers to the art nouveau sofa.

If you want to enable the recolours of the sofa to work on the loveseat, this is where you'll have to add both groups and their respective referral strings (the ones you find in the Resource Node)
That means, make sure that there's both 'fabric' and 'frame' in the TsMaterialsMeshName, and make sure they refer to the right string.
Check the bottom half of JWoods tut for detailed info on this.
I noticed you also haven't cleaned up the cDatalistExtensions, so I'm guessing you haven't tried 'enabling' your slave object yet
Try following the enabling process, and see where that takes you. If there's any more trouble,
upload the both of them, so I can test my possible 'fixes'
retired moderator
#32 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 6:54 PM
OK. Thank you so much. Actually, I was trying that while you were looking at the loveseat. I'm still not getting the correct results. One thing I have not done, is adding the string. I guess I'm a bit confused on that one because the references to frame and fabric are already there in the arrays. If I add more, I'm afraid I'll crash again.

Let me try it one more time, and if I fail, I'll upload both repository and slave objects.

Again, I can't thank you enough. I don't know why this is so difficult for me.
retired moderator
#33 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 7:12 PM
Finally! I am so sorry for all the trouble. I finally saw what my problem was. I was pulling the sofa's file name from the wrong place, so it was totally incorrect. Once I entered the correct name (and the string), everything worked great. Well, almost. Now I have to enable the pillows for the loveseat which are not showing up in design mode.

I am really greatful for your help. If you hadn't said something about JWood's end of the tutorial, I would not have gone back to read it.
Field Researcher
#34 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 7:26 PM
I was hoping to be able to help you, Grapholina, because I'm working on a very similar project using the Barrocco and Serenity Sitter stuff. Slightly different because I'm trying to link them to an independent repositry item. Earlier on today I tried to link them together, there are 7 clones of the Serenity Sitter and 2 of the Barocco Loveseat that I need to work on. But whenever I tinker with these things (well two of them, the repositry and an item from the set) things just get uglier. I thought (and this might be of some relevence to you Grapholina) that the loveseat was the original repositry item for the set. So I cloned that and then found that (even though it was the only partially recolourable item in my set) it was missing material definitions and overrides and texture images. So I attempted to redress this problem (in the repositry) by cloning the material definition, override and texture image from the ones that weren't shadows and changing the details so that they'd point to frame or fabric. Maybe this is a dud set for some reason. I wanted it because it had two recolourable models so it should have been easy and more versatile. I've mapped all of my remeshes accordingly. Now I am banging my head off a brick wall.

I have this procedure down for linking bedding to the original and homemade options and making bed frames reference their own textures but, can I do it for this? Can I heckers like.

It was possibly a major mistake cloning material overrides etc.
retired moderator
#35 Old 1st Sep 2005 at 10:29 PM
well, I'm still messing with mine, and I may go to another base object because even though my loveseat is now showing the original fabric, the pillows are not showing in design mode, and even if I recolor the sofa, only the pillows show up for the loveseat, and not the fabric.

You may be right in that this may be one goofy set (the Boroccoco set). I'm to the point that I want to get on a plane and march on Maxis.

If JWoods were around, I'm sure he might be able to figure this out. Me, I haven't a clue. If you think of anything, post. I'll keep my eye on this thread.
Fluffy
retired moderator
#36 Old 2nd Sep 2005 at 4:31 PM
Grapholina,
remember how I said you only had 'fabric' in you TsMaterialsMeshName ?
Did you put 'frame' in there, with the appropriate string?
Otherwise the pillows won't recolour.
My offer to look at both your objects still stands
retired moderator
#37 Old 2nd Sep 2005 at 4:43 PM
Thank you, you kind and generous soul! I'm ashamed to say how many tries I'm now up to.

Let me check my latest package to see if I have frame in the tsMaterialsMeshName. Then if it doesn't work, I'll upload both repository and slave objects for you.
retired moderator
#38 Old 2nd Sep 2005 at 5:34 PM Last edited by Grapholina : 3rd Sep 2005 at 4:50 PM. Reason: Deleting attachments
Lethe_s, I really have tried. I've gone over the slave object tons of times and I just cannot see anything I've left off.

Maybe you can. I've attached both repository and slave objects. And thanks again for looking at this.
retired moderator
#39 Old 3rd Sep 2005 at 3:15 AM
Any luck? I've tried several other things in the meantime, without success.
Fluffy
retired moderator
#40 Old 3rd Sep 2005 at 9:07 AM
Grapholina,
tea and patience
I have to sleep and stuff :D
now,
here's what I've done so far
Edited your sofamesh, by changing all the artnouveau instances to 'montereysofa', and the 'tanroses' to 'antique', they confused the heck out of me
Your loveseat mesh wasn't in the rar, so I worked with the one I already had,
and linked that to the sofamesh, that's all fine, but the enabling bit is harder, mostly because of the two subsets
I've so far experimented with one tsMaterialsMeshname for both,
and with two tsMaterialsMeshnames, but haven't been able to see the recolour on the loveseat yet
soooo, more tea and patience (or help of someone with a deeper understanding of the geometric node, of course)

edit: know what I just realized? I'm missing a SlaveSubset thingy in the geometric node... hmmm
retired moderator
#41 Old 3rd Sep 2005 at 11:56 AM Last edited by Grapholina : 3rd Sep 2005 at 12:13 PM.
Hmm. I've been trying different things myself, and have had some luck. Unfortunately, it was with a different base and the shadows are now off because it was a 3 tile object. Pfffttttt.

Anyway, sorry if I seemed rushed. I think we're in very different time zones, yes?

EDIT: Oooh! I just saw that tsDesignModeSlaveSubset thingy! It's in the Adirondak Loveseat. Is that what you were talking about?
retired moderator
#42 Old 3rd Sep 2005 at 4:48 PM
Lethe_S, I did it! It had to do with the tsDesignModeSlaveSubsets in both the repository and slave objects.

Thanks for trying to help, anyway.
Fluffy
retired moderator
#43 Old 3rd Sep 2005 at 9:40 PM
Grapholina,
congratulations!
you must feel exhilirated right about now...
I'm sorry, I haven't had any time to look at it again, today,
cause yes, we are in vastly different timezones.
But sometimes, I don't have to do too much, it seems
Field Researcher
#44 Old 30th Sep 2005 at 1:46 PM
Oh no. Sorry, I'm trying to link the matching chair to the (third party) repositry object now. I'm trying to follow the tutorial. I have the chair linked but having problems colour enabling it. I'm fairly sure SimPE has changed since the repositry tutorial was written (also some of the images are giving 'bad gateway' errors so I can't check to see whether I'm on the same page. I think there's a new section in the resource tree which is the 'resource node' and step 3 of the colour enabling section of the tutorial (where it talks about adding a cObjectGraphNode) is it using this 'resource node' to do it?

Can I go through my steps with you please (from the point where the slave is linked and I've deleted the non shadow material definitions, overrides and texture images. Changed the subset names in the geometry node tsDesignModeEnabled and tsNoShadow) and try it again?

Using the clone of a chair that has no parts that are slaves already.
Ok...

Right, I'm in the geometry node and there's no sign of the cObjectGraphNode there. So, perhaps naughty and incorrect, I'll follow the tutorial via the resource node.

Found the cObjectGraphNode, added one enabled it and given it a sequential index of 6 - commit.

Edit blocks in the resource node or the geometric node? Now there has appeared a cObjectGraphNode in the geometric node but my 6th entry is not there!

I'll use the geometric node. Edit blocks, found the cDataListExtension and added one (it is number 6 in the list) - commit.

Geometric Node, content, pull down blocklist, selected the cDataListExtension and given it the name tsMaterialsMeshName and added 2 strings for the 2 recolourable parts with the names that correspond to the repositry item.

I'm now in the repository's Resource Node/Plugin View/Content/cObjectGraphNode
and copying the filename which is ##0x1c050000!reposcube1 (leaving out the _cres suffix) into the string fields of the slaves tsMaterialsMeshName. Commit and Save.

So does that sound right? I think I'm getting confused by the step 2 and step 3 of the tutorial. Are we supposed to go from the geometric node to the resource node before step 3?

Anyway, I'm going to try it now. If it works then perhaps (if anyone else is having the same difficulties) this post might help.

Ah well, it didn't work. Didn't crash but didn't work. I'll try doing it over, staying within the resource node to edit the blocks. Please forgive me if I seem a bit frantic (much caffiene to maximise concentration) and also if I'm in the wrong place for this (I came back here because it's the same project (or mission), essentially, as the one I was asking about before. I don't really want to post this broken slave object because (please believe me) I want to learn how to do this for my self. I've got the tutorial open, my repositry, my slave and the package file of the table that JWoods kindly fixed for me.

Once I get this working I'll 'report my progress'. If anyone finds this post, in the meantime, and can refer to the tutorial - please tell me if I'm being completely stupid getting stuck between steps 2 and 3. Also, I'll move this post to the repository section.
The ModFather
retired moderator
#45 Old 30th Sep 2005 at 4:50 PM
The missing images has been fixed. Thanks for reporting.

As for your problem, Samekh, never ever change anything in the Resource Node! The Geometry node always contains a cObjectGraphNode (if ever happens to you not to find it, please post here a screenshot: maybe there's a bug in SimPE?).

The only time you need to look at the Resource node is in Part B, step 5.

Also, in Part B, both the steps 2 and 3 are performed into the Geometry Node; the Resource node is not involved. The meaning of these steps can be found in the FAQ nearby: every time you add a block in the GMND blocklist, you have to add a line in the GMND DatalistExtension List.

Do again the tutorial, but this time don't miss the cObjectGraphNode into the GMND. Again, if you can't find it, post a screenshot.

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Field Researcher
#46 Old 30th Sep 2005 at 6:50 PM Last edited by Samekh : 30th Sep 2005 at 7:11 PM.
I found the cObjectGraphNode, thanks for fixing the links in the tutorial. I was pulling down the blocklist in the geometric node looking for it when I should have selected the 0x0 geometric node in the blocklist and then there's a tab available (below it) for the cObjectGraphNode. I'm just about ready to test it again. In the table that JWoods fixed for me (in the geometric node pull down blocklist) he has cDataListExtensions for Wood and Metal (the original ones had been base and table). That was a already a slave object before I cloned it. This chair that I'm doing wasn't enslaved to any other object and it has cDataListExtensions still referring to wood and cushion. It's pointing to the same master as the table, I'm presuming I should change these (their names) to wood and metal?

In the table that works there is no seperate cDataListExtension in the blocklist, in my chair their is one now that refers to wood and metal - I take it that should do the same thing? Anyway, I'll try it now. Silly me! If I'd only just investigated the geometric node a bit more in the first place I'd have found the cObjectGraphNode! I'm sorry I'm such a nuisance.


And then it works! I can't believe it. I feel utterly ridiculous now. I learned to do this with bed frames months ago (it's basicly the same thing). It just demonstrates that trying to learn how to do things to the extent where you don't really even look at what your doing any more (me and bed frames) can be a massive stumbling block whenever there is the slightest change to layout or process. Doh!
The ModFather
retired moderator
#47 Old 30th Sep 2005 at 7:28 PM
Bravo!

Actually, I understand that sometimes, though we may think that something is obvious, it is not. I didn't think to suggest you to select the first entry of the blocklist, in order for the cObjectGraphNode to appear...

As for the "wood", "metal", etc... blocks, I know that JWoods tutorial suggest to rename them according to the new subset names. But I still haven't found the purposes of those blocks.
In my objects, I usually delete them (deleting the same number of entries in the Datalist Extension List!!!), an all my objects (slave or master) works perfectly...

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Field Researcher
#48 Old 30th Sep 2005 at 8:14 PM Last edited by Samekh : 30th Sep 2005 at 8:52 PM.
There may be a clue. I left them as 'cushion' and 'wood'. I just thought I'd try the package first and when it worked I left them as they were, but the thumbnails for both the table (the package where table and base blocks had been renamed) and the chair were messed up, i.e. showing a blue shape. I deleted the thumbnails package to see if they would return and the chair thumbnail shows correctly now but the table doesn't. I don't know what that indicates but leaving those block names as they are originally makes the thumbnail work!

When you delete those possibly unneeded blocks, do you need to do anything extra with the thumbnails for them to show correctly? Maybe renaming them 'confuses' the package and deleting them forces the game to show the object with the external material definitions it's linked to?

Actually, I'm not sure JWoods did rename them. He fixed my package but the chances are it was me who had renamed them and he didn't do anything with those blocks! I should point that out .

I've still go the zip file that he sent me with the working table so I'm going to delete those files in the table. If I understand you correctly I:

a: (In the geometric node/content/blocklist) delete the cDataListExtensions for wood and metal leaving four blocks (the root, the tsnoshadow, the tsdesignmodeenabled and the tsmaterialsmeshname) then I

b: (Still in the geometric node/content/blocklist) select the root (0x0 or geometric node) and as there are 5 items in the datalist extension reference - do I just delete number 5 to take it down to 4 and match the number of blocks in the blocklist or do I remove 2 because I'm removing two items from the blocklist? Is the geometric node (0x0) counted? I get it, if I delete two from the blocklist I delete two from the datalist extension, and it doesn't matter which two so long as I delete the same number. Ok . Ah, I delete 1 and 5 in the datalist because, in the blocklist, items 1 and 5 are wood and metal... I get it now.
The ModFather
retired moderator
#49 Old 30th Sep 2005 at 8:36 PM
I don't think that the thumbnails rely on those blocks, because the blocks contain reference for all the original Maxis colours for each subset. As far as I know, the thumbnail is generated reading the Material Definitions from the Shape.
When I test my objects, I usually delete all the files into the "Thumbnails" folder, to force the game to regenerate them from scratch.
A blue part in the thumbnail, generally, means a flashing blue part in the object, when placed in game.
Double check the Material Definition references into the Shape of the slave object ("Parts" tab), being sure that they match exactly the references in the Shape of the Repository.
Also, when testing the slave object in game be sure that the repository is in the downloads (sorry if this sounds too obvious

I've finally started my Journal. Information only, no questions.

My latest activity: CEP 9.2.0! - AnyGameStarter 2.1.1 (UPD) - Scriptorium v.2.2f - Photo & Plaques hide with walls - Magazine Rack (UPD) - Animated Windows Hack (UPD) - Custom Instrument Hack (UPD) - Drivable Cars Without Nightlife (UPD) - Courtesy Lights (FIX) - Custom Fence-Arches - Painting-TV - Smarter Lights (UPD)


I *DON'T* accept requests, sorry.
Field Researcher
#50 Old 12th Oct 2005 at 8:05 PM
It's me again! Hia Numenor. Firstly, I must thank you because I have been marching through linking my objects to two third party repositories and I'm really getting the hang of it now and understanding more and more all the time. I even have objects, with two models, that borrow from two different repositories for their textures and it's fantastic because it cuts down on so much space and everything can be co-ordinated (it's taking me a while re-meshing, re-mapping and getting the repository textures perfect and flexible, and re-doing the shadows - I should thank you also for saying that you use Wings (and how) because that's dropping my poly counts dramatically and, mostly, improving the appearance).

I've been remeshing my lamps today (guess what's coming) and for some reason I'm unable to make recolours of the repository. When the option comes up to chose a subset to recolour I get nothing.

I've been using a dining chair with two recolourable parts for both the other repositories but, this time, I had to use the Illistara lamp because the shade has two states and I don't know how to give the chair a lit state.

Can lamps use the repository technique?

The first time I tried it I deleted all the uneccessary files from the repository (like shadows, light patterns and references to debris) and I renamed all references to lampshade to shade and post to patterns. That didn't work. Now I've tried not deleting anything but changing the important model names in the first gmdc and the first shape and in tsdesignmodeenabled and tsnoshadow in the Geometric Node. Still no joy.

I'm trying to think what it might be - I did everything the same way. I would have cloned the light (for the repository) without pulling the animations. Is it something to do with changing the model names? I've used the Illistara lamp all the time because it's so straightforward and has two, easily recolourable, subsets. (What's the difference between a subset and a model?)

The more I think about it, it must be to do with changing lampshade to shade etc. There must be something else in the package that insists on it being 'post' and 'lampshade'. I'll change the names back and see if that works, it won't be hard (now).

Ignore this for the minute until I've tested it out.

I should have tested my repository in game first (to see if it was recolourable) but, like I said, with your help I've been galloping through my meshes. (Also my graphics card is getting glitchy and it doesn't like me going into a 3d program after playing the sims without me shutting the pc down first - if I do that it crashes. Hey ho.)

OK for now! I'll start mewing loudly if I really, seriously, need help.

If you know offhand though - using repositories with lamps; is that very different?
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