Yeah, they're a separate NPC type - I call them the Pet Police (because it's them who warn you about mistreating your pets (i.e. not feeding them)) but I don't know if that's what EAxis calls them.


Did you get my list of NPC types already? I have posted it here once before. There are a number of NPCs who are only generated as you play so I don't have all of them.

I think that the mailpeople and the paperboys/girls are safe to marry-lord knows, the paperboy was all right back when I used him, many moons ago. Got him aged up and then he obsessively fell in love with Angela Pleasant. They've been together for about umpteen million years, and had children. No borking of him yet.

I've got the mailman scoped out in my game next-he's been calling my sims at random and trying to make friends with them. Unpleasant guy, though. Wonder if the Mail Carriers' Union is aware of that?

The most important listings in SimPE are 'unlinked character data', 'uneditable' character and 'default character' listings. I'd strongly recommend never using these characters or putting them into play. They're just not safe to do anything with. There's also the 'objects' listing of characters, which includes Rod Humble and the Spectral Assistants. They're not playable, either.

But the funny thing is: that awful Unsavory Charlatan? He's playable! He's got a full character data set, complete profile in SimPE. I'd almost like to make him playable and kick the stuffing out of him..he's so terrible!

Oh, I did check the mailman, too-he's fully playable, comes with all of the necessary baggage, should I really want to put him in the game. Achilles Tonsberg, Letter Carrier of the Month!

The paper carriers and cashiers are ordinary townie teens with visible jobs rather than the usual teen careers. If you choose the option to move in teens from the main hood from the neighborhood screen of the University subhood, they will be available for selection, and you can only tell them from ordinary teens if you look close enough to see that the carriers are in the yellow ball caps and the cashiers are in the green aprons.

I've put the paper carriers under interdict, because they're too well-educated and have almost maxed their skill points. I really liked the first one I brought in, who has a popularity aspiration and can be given all kinds of stuff to do without using the skilling objects - in fact keeping her away from activities that would let her finish maxing her points became a challenge of playing her - but the second one is a knowledge aspiration and a pain in the butt. I recommend not making them playable unless you go into SimPE and adjust their skill points to something more reasonable. But that's hardly a gamekilling limitation.

No, I didn't see your list. Is it in this thread? I'll take a look and see whether I can find it.

I got my list (inside the spoiler) from the installation files using SimPE, so I expect that the list is complete. However, it's clear that there are multiple names for some of the NPC types, so they may be named something other than what you expect.

You should just be aware that playing a sim doesn't necessarily tell you whether it's corrupting your neighborhood. Sometimes, corruption can take a long time to show up.

It's ok - I posted it a while back on another thread. It's nothing special but does list the NPC codes for each type. I assembled the list when I was doing another experiment so I don't think it can be complete. In fact, I know it isn't because it doesn't take account of NPCs spawned as you play. Anyway, you're welcome to it if it's helpful.

I had another recent thread which touched on this issue. Maxon helpfully posted the list in that.

I was having problems with code 040's "Grand Witches". For some reason my game spawned a bunch of NPCS with that class-code and some of them became members of households through the usual in-game means (marriage or invite to move in).

I'm not going to get into it as according to the entire internet my situation seems to be unique; still I think you should flag that NPC for testing if possible.

I thought it was because it would appear your sims seemed to change their numbering? It might be that 040 is a dump number.

I think Bartenders have a small bit of hardcoding to them: all three of the bartenders I've turned playable do not need to be greeted in order to enter houses. One of them is outgoing, but the other two are very shy.

(Also, I may have unleashed the most annoying couple ever in my game: a cheerleader and a llama mascot.)

Could be. I really don't know.

I downloaded a "nowitchhack" which has stopped the proliferation of those kind of characters. The game had generated hundreds of those 040s. They used to dominate community lots, but now their sightings are very rare.

Two of my 5 playables of this kind are now dead (one of old age, another was a vampiric suicide). Similar destinies await the rest.

Question: Is the Unsavory Charlatan really safe? Because I've always heard otherwise, so now I'm confused.

My rule of thumb tends to be that if an NPC has limited social interactions available and cannot be made playable via the non-cheat means of Propose Move In or Propose Marriage, they should probably be left alone. I'm pretty sure the Unsavory Charlatan can't be befriended.

I'd say that's a pretty good rule of thumb. I wouldn't try to move him in either. He's got special coding built in (the pick-pocketing) - that's the sort of thing that tends to stick. Still ... kleptomaniac sim might be fun.

Hard-coded behaviors don't scare me in and of themselves, because several known-to-be-safe NPCs have them. I'm far more concerned with lack of social options.

We're discussing this dude at the BBS now. Apparently, he's not an object, but a person with an aspiration, skills, and a predestined hobby. And he's linked.

I'm currently testing in a new custom vanilla 'hood to see what happens with regard to the game generating a new Unsavory Charlatan if I make the original one playable.

Yes, you'd be right to be wary of that - sorry, that's what I meant to say earlier. The stuff about hard-coded behaviours was an afterthought.

I could have told you he wasn't an object - <sigh> never mind.


Well, that in itself, I should think will happen. The UC generates 3 copies in a normal hood (i.e. not an empty templates one) on hood creation, just like most other NPCs. When the game does that it generally means it will generate a new version of that sim if needed. In your new hood, did you use empty templates or do you have three UCs as normal? If you have three, it might happen that the game doesn't spawn a new one immediately.

I imagine though, given the lack of possible social interactions, that the UC is similar to the Social Worker and Driver - i.e. it's probably not a good idea to make them playable because there's a strong chance the sim will be buggy. It's not going to be a game-breaker like moving in Mrs C or Grimmy. UCs are not unique universal NPCs.

Ah, well, I only found one to Add to Family, but I'll take your word for it that the game normally has three. (I used a "clean", but not empty, 'hood template, but didn't add any subhoods.)

I suppose whether or not he's "safe" (causes corruption when made playable) is still a question, but I did prove that it's pointless to add him. He does have Wants/Fears, a hobby (even had five points of hobby enthusiasm), a personality, skills, etc.. He also gets a full menu of social interaction options and object interaction options, but when directed to do something, it would drop out of his queue. The sim whose family I added him to had NO interactions with him available to her.

He's definitely buggy. He tries constantly to leave the lot (to the point of fading out at the edge then coming back), and his motives are static.

Two amusing notes: He pickpocketed my sim shortly after becoming part of the family, and at some point, he rolled a Fear of being pickpocketed himself.

Hey, guys - I have had trouble moving in the Grand Vampire on two different lots on separate computers. What happens is that they go through the interaction, then they both reset and he goes back to acting like a guest. When I tried it through marriage, the playable Sim got the marriage rings by his portrait in her relationship panel, but he was still an uncontrollable guest on the lot. I quit without saving and loaded the lot again. This time, he moved in normally. It was the same deal on the other lot. The Grand Vampire could not join the household until I quit without saving. I play a hack-free game (except for the Batbox and the doorjam fix) at the moment, so I'm not sure what has caused this. Has anyone else had experiences moving in Grand Vampires? Have you ever had them bug out like this, or is something broken in my game (again)?

You know, I only just realized that I've never actually made any Grand Vamps playable in my own game. I always thought they were safe, but that's not based on personal experience. So now I really wonder!

I know a popular Legacy writer over at Booprop has a couple of Grand Vamps in her story, but it's possible she extracted them.

Uh - well it might be that the cleaned templates only have one each of some (or all?) of the NPCs. It's actually pretty pointless in cases like the UC to have more than one because you never see more than one on a lot and they're not meant to present anything other than a caricature. It's definitely usually three but the test, when I did it, was in an unmodded, template-free game and there were always three of everything except the universal NPCs.


Sounds just like the Social Worker.

I've never added a Social Worker, but yeah... I imagine she's just as useless.

Saw some interesting things with further "testing" (just messing around, really). For fun, I added Mrs. C, Grim, Santa, Rod Humble, and the Therapist to the mix. Grim, Santa, and Therapist promptly disappeared and could not be retrieved. (Later, I killed a townie, and Grim actually came, but no tombstone was left.) Rod Humble left too, after a couple sim hours of pacing.

UC continued to pace for about a sim day, but Mrs. C would actually do stuff. I got her to shower, dance solo and smustle (Kept tight hold on the purse with both hands the whole time. ), eat, and stargaze. She gained dance and science enthusiasm. Then, she decided to leave too. Just disappeared. When she did, UC was suddenly more malleable. He autonomously joked with my CAS sim then went to play guitar. And his motives started dropping. My sim still did not have player-directed interactions with him, but she could interact autonomously.

I decided then to give him a makeover (shorts and flipflop plus monocle, which I could not get rid of) and ask his roomie on a date. Date went well, they fell in love, etc.. But still, no player-directed interactions on her side. Then I got bored and deleted the 'hood. Test over.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. No proof (I'm not very good with SimPE and don't even have it installed at the moment), but I'd bet a lot that making UC playable is just as corrupting as making Mrs. C, Grim, Therapist, etc. playable. Fun to try in a test 'hood perhaps, but big no-no for a 'hood one wants to remain stable.

Um - I'd be real careful with that Darby (and make sure your main hood is backed up) because I think adding some of the Universal NPCs is a GAME borker, not just the neighbourhood. With the universals, there is only one file and that is in the game files somewhere (I do have a note where but can never remember unless I look it up). This means there is only ONE version of Grimmy, the Therapist and, yes, Mrs C for ALL your neighbourhoods. If you make changes to those files (and by developing the sims you are making changes), you run the very real risk of making the game unplayable. That was why the Mrs C getting bitten by a vampire bug was so serious.

On Mrs C: Since she's technically an object, I have concluded that I have more than 1 of her.

I have a vampired version, who acts normally, doesn't bleah, doesn't turn into a bat, but starts steaming at daylight and so flees off. I have no idea when this happened.

I have another who is clearly not vampired and is seen in daylight hours.

On grand vampires: I have one that is now a playable. He took vampricillin, got married and had three children. He still like to eat his arm when he walks around the house (usually going to the hot tub, which strikes me as a better place to hang than a coffin), but otherwise, he's just a "normal" sim.

...I did not know that. We're not talking corruption of installation files though, are we? I'm fine, as long as we're not talking "reinstall", because I was using an entirely different game file folder than the one holding my main 'hoods. The main 'hood folder is still in the EA GAMES folder, though, just renamed so as not to be "seen". If all we're talking is game files, I assume the renamed one is safe because it wasn't being accessed, right? yikes... (I've been accused of being a worry monger at the BBS, but now I'm thinking my warnings haven't been strong enough all this time. )



That's in line with what I've always heard before, which would put Grand Vamps in the category of "irritating hardcoded behaviour, but otherwise probably safe". I hope that's the case.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here but, in a normal set up, yes, we're talking about corrupting installation files and reinstalling. The universal NPCs are the same files for EVERY neighbourhood - that's why I call them universals: in regard to Mrs C, there is only one!

To clarify:
I think in terms of two sets of files - installation files (the ones in Program Files created during the installation process) and game files (the ones in My Documents\EA GAMES\The Sims 2). I thought the installation files were basically immutable, unless deliberately tinkered with, and that any corruption caused by VBTs and such was confined to the game files. Under this mindset, the solution to corrupted and unplayable 'hoods is a simple reset of just the affected 'hood(s) - not an entire reinstall.

But you're telling me that all 'hoods in all my various The Sims 2 game file folders, as well as any new 'hoods I may create in the future are subject to corruption I created in this one test 'hood, because the files that ALL current and future 'hoods draw on - the installation files - are screwed?

If I'm understanding this correctly, that's a real suck-fest.

Okay, if I reinstall, will the neighborhoods that were fine before my test project (none of which I've played since I deleted the test 'hood) be okay once fresh installation files are in place to draw data from?

Yes, there's a major problem with trying to play sims who are really objects. Their character data is in the objects.package in the installation folder (Program Files). When the game tries to change their user data (which it will try to do when you make them playable), it destroys your installation files.

Your only option is to uninstall and reinstall everything. My guess is that your neighborhoods also have to go. Even if you haven't played a neighborhood, the game has opened all of your neighborhoods and subhoods and re-written them. Since the game is now corrupt, you can assume that your neighborhoods are also corrupt. Check the last-modified date. If a file has changed since you started fooling around with unplayable characters, then the file can be assume to be bad.

Then, avoid doing things when we tell you that they aren't safe.

I'm normally very good about not doing anything stupid in my game. I simply did not know how deep the corruption could go, so I didn't realize messing with these sims is a VBT even in a test 'hood.

This sucks. Reinstalling is such a PAIN. *sigh*

Question remains: Will my existing 'hoods be okay once I've got fresh installation files in place?