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Field Researcher
#901 Old 4th Nov 2007 at 8:58 PM
Maybe my problems with the pedestrian portal on the first floor also was about it being to close to edge, or not enough flat space around it. As I saw that you had the portals in the attic, working, Inge .
I place wallpapers and windows before shrinking. As pointed out, windows turned "the right way" (arrow out) is demolished on shrinking, I have succeded to replace the windows after shrinking when that happens. (with move objects on).
Windows "turned the wrong way" (arrow in) stay.
I have demolished outer walls after shrinking, without problems. I am not placing furniture before shrinking - as they can easily be placed later with move-objects-on.

Mootilda, thank you so much for this wonderful tool! I have had so much fun with it! I realize its testing and risky and all, but I made backups of the neighbourhood, and if everything implodes, I have a good reason to reinstall and start fresh. Its worth it - this is building as it should have been all along.
Playing with mods IS risky, I think everyone that dare to add all sorts of hacks and stuff knows that, if not - thats just stupid.
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#902 Old 4th Nov 2007 at 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
Are you getting any error messages? How far do you get in the process before things start to go wrong?


I get the lot file selected and opened, the options to change the size--but when I hit the button to DO the change, it gives an error. Something about 'unable to complete task'. I tried all the LE/LA versions I have, xxx78, xxx79, xxx7b, xxx10, but none worked.

Does the LA in anyway ask for game program files?

It's got to be something on my system(s) don't you think, since everyone else is ok?

BTW: the options window on all versions reported the 4x5 beach lot as a '6x3'. This confuses me as I am sure the '4' is the number of squares across and this number does not change, the '6' is the length of the lot and would have the 'minus one' for the street square in EA notation. Please, if I'm wrong correct me?
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#903 Old 4th Nov 2007 at 10:48 PM
Mutantbunny your post has given me a thought (I recognise this thought is actually nothing to do with your problem lol). I wonder if the reason some people's lots crash the game and other people's don't is nothing to do with their games or how they built the house. Could it possibly be that the LE itself isn't working fully for some people? That it's not actually completing the tasks it is doing for other people? Is this possible even when an error message has not shown up in action?

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
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#904 Old 4th Nov 2007 at 11:51 PM Last edited by Mutantbunny : 5th Nov 2007 at 12:14 AM.
I think that's possible, in a way, anyway. I included my system specs in a privious post because of thinking along this line: it is entirely possible that it is not the LE/LA causing crashes, not the walls on the edges, etc, but rather the indivdual systems it's operating on.

For instance: I have a shit ton of memory now 4 gigs! and I can now play the larger lots which would crash on me before the upgraded system (I thought those lots, which I had Dled, were 'bad', no it was my system that was 'bad'. I also have a mini LCD screen on my keyboard (I know--how cool, huh? ) which allows me to constantly monitor CPU and memory usage during game play. The game will literally use as much memory as one can give it when it is under demand I've seen it hit 90% of my 4 gigs! It usually runs at around 2 gigs of use, easily (8 gigs next upgrade, when the 2 gig sticks are about--Tim Allen AR-AR! ) I think a good CPU is just as important, and I wish I had gone for the faster, better processor, which I will next time AR! (PS. the Sims 2 literally was burning my other processor up, a P4 2.4--not good enough to play, I don't care what EA says, at least it wasn't with my old chip set, bus speed, low memory etc.)

I think it would be a good thing to be collecting minimum specs to rule this in/out. CPU, memory, OS and hd speed and swap space. But, then, I don't really know all that much either so how good is my advice? lol....
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#905 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 12:42 AM
Mutantbunny, I can't really imagine that a small tool like the LE would have *higher* minimum specs than the game itself?

I think what Inge meant was that some people might have a broken LE or something.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Forum Resident
#906 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 1:01 AM
No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is: all systems are a bit different, different OS, different CPUs, etc. I used the example of my system and the big lots to point out that it was my system, not the lots. So the program just isn't running 'right' on them.

MS has the advantage, as I'm sure EA does but doesn't use of many different types of PCs and testing/making their software work on the different configurations (for instance my networking which wasbn't working. I have a nvidia chipset, nVidia is famous for their drivers not jiving with the OS, hence my network not working between Vista and the 'uncertified' nVidia drivers-until of late that is at least for my chipset and network. Geez, even some of MS's own software hasn't been 'certified' for Vista. What do you think is in that certification? I think it's being 'passed/tested on the many different systems.

Mootilda doesn't have that advantage of having many many systems to tst on. She could be knocking her head on the wall over things she has no control over.

And sure, why not what you think Inge said: what makes us think every copy of the LA downloads, and istralls perfectly on all systems? DLs do get corrupted, some a littel and the repair fuction will work on them and some alot and one must go try to Dl again. If the program could open and even partially work in a situation like this, I don't reall yknow. But I don't think it's impossible either, not until I know that for sure.

Something is stopping the LA from working on my system--what? Could be different versions of SimPE or the way it installs or Net 2 or something in the OS or the program itself--I don't know. I am not a programmer.
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Original Poster
#907 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 2:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantbunny
It's got to be something on my system(s) don't you think, since everyone else is ok?
I think that the most likely explanation is that there is something in your lot package that the LA has never seen before. Could I get a copy of the lot to debug?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantbunny
BTW: the options window on all versions reported the 4x5 beach lot as a '6x3'.
Beach lots are currently all 6 deep: 5 neighborhood tiles plus the road. But, it is very odd that a 4 wide lot is being displayed as 3 wide. The LA just reports the size that's in the neighborhood package, so this implies that there's a disconnect between your neighborhood and your lot. In this case, it would be helpful if I could get both the lot package and the neighborhood package.

Is this the same lot as your first problem above?
Mad Poster
#908 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 2:50 AM Last edited by niol : 19th Nov 2007 at 2:38 PM.
Default [chit-chat]
EA does count this at least in the video card preset configuration file. But, I'm not at that point to mod it when unnecessary. They do make "mistakes" on video card classification and hence my video card "couldn't" handle certain workable graphical feature. So, I modded the shader code instead to have my video card to re-render such graphical feature..
But, I'm unsure the other parts of the game engine.
Alchemist
#909 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 3:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
I'm hoping that this will discourage casual use, but allow dedicated simmers to continue to shrink lots. Would this work for people here? Does everyone here know how to edit a text file?

It would discourage me. I have once edited my walls text file, with help from hubby.

I think it is good to reduce the availability of the shrinking code, while being aware that no-one can put it back into Pandora's box at this stage. I appreciate the special case of beach lots, but from a distance as I don't have BV. (If people get that worked out by the time I get BV, I'll happily download a pre-made set of small beach lots, just as I used Andi's mini lots.)

The only reason (I can think of) that I would NEED to shrink lots now, is maintaining the size of a rotated lot after changing the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ingeli
windows turned "the right way" (arrow out) is demolished on shrinking, I have succeded to replace the windows after shrinking when that happens. (with move objects on).
Windows "turned the wrong way" (arrow in) stay.
Actually, this is backwards - the 'right' direction for window placement is arrows inwards. I had to check the mouldings to make sure.

Now that I've caught up on my reading, I'll report:

I've used the new UI, and overall I like it a lot. I was confused about why the intital window appeared at the left side of my screen, but then when the advanced section opened out, it made some sense.

Another wording for the portals explanation - "LotAdjuster will automatically choose suitable positions for the portals. If this box is ticked/unticked/changed, you will need to place the portals manually later."

I'm happy to lose the manual portal option from the LA - it can be done very easily with the flamingo anyway. Another possible wording: "Automatic portal placement" or "Standard portal placement".

I like the way the shrinking tab in the advanced screen enables the minus arrows on the first half of the window. It's good to have everything visible at once.

I used this version to 'fix' an earlier lot that was mucked up while testing something else. I added to the back of the block and let the portals alone. I noted the sun direction as reported by LA. It was correct - well done, that is helpful in visualising how the lot needs to be changed.

In the finishing screen, where it says "you may need to edit the lot one more time", it might be clearer to put something like "Depending on any advanced options you chose, you may need to delete excess road tiles and footpaths, move the mailbox, community phone or garbage can, or manually place portal markers."

The expansion I made to that lot fixed it - the lot would then place properly in the hood. All the portals etc appeared, althogh facing in random directions. I turned the mailbox to prevent the move-in taxi appearing in the house, but left the markers alone. All seemed to function perfectly, despite looking odd.

In another pass, I added a road to the left of the lot to see what happened. When I clicked Next, I got the warning message about not having altered any values and therefore unlocking all tiles. Maybe this message should be different here? It confused me a bit, since I knew I HAD changed something, just not the size of the lot.

In the game, the two roads appeared, but didn't have a proper corner intersection. I changed and saved the lot, then tried to place it in the hood. It wouldn't go just anywhere, but went happily into a spot where the neighbourhood roads matched the corner I had created on the lot. The grid and the intersection within the lot fixed themselves after change-and-save again, and the lot functioned well until 8 pm with a sim in residence.

I think that's my bit for now. Mootilda, would you rather I take out the tutorial instructions about shrinking the rotated house? It is well marked as risky and advanced, but maybe it would be better not to tell more people about that option just yet.
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Original Poster
#910 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 3:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niol
Lol, please keep this feature, I'm one of those who bother to re-arrange the portals manually... even before shrinking. I see there're still some experiments for this.
No problem. I don't want to remove any feature that's useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niol
BTW, to keep the neighbourhood package not to be over-written, open it in SimPE or simply make it read-on while starting the game and work on the potentially corrupted lots without moving them. I did that when I made highly risky modifications on the lot files for testings. The lot files and the neighbourhood files are backed up before.
This is a very interesting technique, and not one that ever occured to me. Sounds like a good way to keep any corruption from spreading, especially if you only work on one lot per run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niol
Now, I've deleted most of the crashing shrunken lots by LE 1277. And start to do more exp. with LE/LA 127B in a new neighbourhood. So far, so good relatively. Probably, that little fixes did magics...
I can't tell you how pleased I would be if all of these problems were because of the fence posts and the strings which were too long... and whatever other changes I've made recently. I doubt that we'll be that lucky.
Field Researcher
#911 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 3:21 AM
I have successfully shrunk a beachlot to 6x2. I didnt shorten it, as I didnt need that right now.
ATM I am working on my hood that has a lot of slopes, and I know the advise is to only shrink flat lots, but I am not obeying that. I also moved lots that were expanded over the road, seems to work. I know I know, hood is backuped, I am ready for a comet to hit me any second. I like to live a dangerous life :P

About the windows: that explains why I always thought maxis placed the mouldings wrongly, lol. Though I saw this also explained on MATY and that poster also interpreted the arrows like I did.
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DELETED POST
5th Nov 2007 at 3:22 AM
This message has been deleted by Mutantbunny. Reason: because it's not needed
Alchemist
#912 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 3:29 AM
I haven't deleted any hoods or lots where shrinking has been done - should I? Is it likely to fix anything, or would we rather have those lots still available if wanted?
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#913 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 4:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ingeli
About the windows: that explains why I always thought maxis placed the mouldings wrongly, lol.

It depends on the windows which way is "right". We don't have those funky, um, "panels that you can move up and down" here (see, I don't even know what they're called), so I'm not completely familiar with how they work -- but I assume they would have to be on the inside to be able to reach them .. that's what I go by. According to that, the cheapo windows (like what I used in the Backdoor Lane row house as well as these would be "right" with the arrows pointing inside, all others point outside. (I think the Seasons shuttered windows point inside as well, not sure)

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Alchemist
#914 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 4:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticbox
It depends on the windows which way is "right". We don't have those funky, um, "panels that you can move up and down" here (see, I don't even know what they're called),


They're called sash windows. I used to go by the size of the sill - the inside windowsill / ledge is usually deeper than the external part. However, I've been putting the arows inwards for a while now, and it seems to be consistent. Maybe I'm just wrong, of course, but this question makes a change from crashing lots.
Mad Poster
#915 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 5:39 AM Last edited by niol : 19th Nov 2007 at 2:36 PM.
Default [lot templates][chit-chat][beach lots]
[lot templates]

Mutantbunny,

unless the game engine itself have templatation for lot size you're altering the lots to, LE/LA can't alter an empty lot package file into the desired size.

What I mean by "templatation" is that after a new lot is placed on a neighbourhood, it only modify the neighbourhood.package file and create an empty lot package file. Normally, by entering the lot and make some buy or build changes (just so the undo-redo scripting is activated [shown by the undo-redo buttons]) and then saving the lot, this whole process is the step to get the game to copy relevant infos and data from the lot templates, neighbourhood package file and the in-game computed variables into the lot package file.

If the game has such templates for the size you specified, LE/LA will only alter the values in the neighbourhood package file, then you'll get the lot done.
But if not, you'll get a null lot package file that will lead back to the neighbourhood after clicking on the lot.

So, enter the lot, make a change and save the lot before using LE/LA can be for all cases including the "if not" cases. Yet, if you're doing house lots of highly twisted terrain, it'd better use the templated sizes for the terrain crafting by not entering the lots, making any change, or saving the lot before using LE/LA.

Note "templated sizes" means the size we can see from in-game templates.


[chit-chat]

aelflaed,

lol, that's my personal choice on deleting most of crashing lots by LE1277. I still keep a few for later check-out. I did that solely to clear up unwanted duplicates to trim my custom folder size.

Nobody has to follow it.

But it's good to start a new neighbourhood to test a different version of LE/LA to avoid the testings on new versions to be affected by the older data..


[beach lots]

ingeli,

we do need more testings on beach lots.. . Thanks for giving in...
Forum Resident
#916 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 6:02 AM
I got the LA to work. Yes, I had stupidly forgotten to go in and open the freshly placed lot(s). I went in, made one alteration, just to be safe, saved and tada! It works. Finally. Feel foolish now but oh well. Tomorrow, I'll be shrinking those beach lots and see what I get

I could not start my game when I went to try entering/editing those lots. I finally found that some of the config files had 'disappeared'. Why, how could that happen? I don't know, never had done that before. I decided to not try editing from the XP to the Vista, and instead just pulled the hood file over and edited on the XP.
Mad Poster
#917 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 6:10 AM Last edited by niol : 19th Nov 2007 at 2:30 PM.
Default [beach lots]
Mutantbunny,

Added after re-reading: Congratulations...

Nah, it's not about right or wrong nor cleverness or stupidity, but whether to enter a lot, make a buy/build change and save the lot depends on your intention. Either way can result in different outcomes. Some are wanted while some not. By knowing these limitations, we can do more things than just the "right" way.

yay, 1 more person to try on the beach lots...
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#918 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 9:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelflaed
They're called sash windows. I used to go by the size of the sill - the inside windowsill / ledge is usually deeper than the external part. However, I've been putting the arows inwards for a while now, and it seems to be consistent. Maybe I'm just wrong, of course, but this question makes a change from crashing lots.


The correct way to install a sash window - in real life - is so the top sash is on the outside of the bottom sash. This overlap stops rain getting in the gap. Now we have weather in The Sims, that's important in the game too (it jolly well should be anyway, but they don't have their physics all that good yet)

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
Forum Resident
#919 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 1:02 PM Last edited by Mutantbunny : 5th Nov 2007 at 7:34 PM.
I'm going to have to go back and read Inge's posts on her beachs.
0
EDITED: I have shrank 3 lots. I started with 3x5s (smallest beach lot) (LA IDed them as 6x3s.) One I shrink on the right by only by two squares (all allowed by the LA) and resulted in a 1x5.

There are a few problems at least visually so far but does anyone want me to detail those here in this thread? If not I'll wait until someone smarter than me wants to know what I have found?
Field Researcher
#920 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 5:10 PM
Well, over here in Sweden, on old houses, we have this kind of windows and the "doors" on the outside, as they are meant to protect the glass, that was very expensive. Whats the word for those "doors" in English anyway? Cant find it..
I intend to do more testing on beach lots eventually, but making them more narrow seems to work ok.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#921 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 5:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ingeli
Well, over here in Sweden, on old houses, we have this kind of windows and the "doors" on the outside, as they are meant to protect the glass, that was very expensive. Whats the word for those "doors" in English anyway? Cant find it...


We call them shutters.

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
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Original Poster
#922 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 7:03 PM
Hello again. I'm back and my computer seems to be working well again. Now, I'll try to catch up on everything from the weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Or categorise shrinking as Bon Voyage compatible only (or however far back we can demonstrate it to be working).


If I remember the posts at MATY correctly, BV doesn't guarantee that a shrunk lot will actually work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge Jones
Or release different versions of the tool for different EPs, where only the BV version has the shrinking. It's considered quite normal for downloads to require particular EPs.
Actually, this makes no sense for the LA, because a Bon Voyage neighborhood can have lots which were created using various other combinations of EPs. So, the BV version would have to handle all other EPs anyway.
Mad Poster
#923 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 8:03 PM Last edited by niol : 19th Nov 2007 at 2:32 PM.
Default [chit-chat][build tool limits]
[chit-chat]

Mutantbunny,

I'm curious... at least .

I'll be back in 1 or 2 days . Sorry, I have no time to post my results on roof on shrunken lot .
have to get hurried..


[build tool limits]

All,
it's not really a 2-tile or 2-grid row locked, but one whole grid-row locked.
May read the first few paragraphs here
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s....html#msg279444
Pettifogging Legalist!
retired moderator
#924 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 9:41 PM Last edited by plasticbox : 14th Nov 2007 at 9:48 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
If I remember the posts at MATY correctly, BV doesn't guarantee that a shrunk lot will actually work.

You are remembering correctly .. also, Zazazu/KariMinger (BV user) posted today that her own shrunk lots are starting to crash on load more and more often now that she's played them a bit (she was prepared to throw the hood away at some point, so no worries). She was one of those who didn't get a single crash in the beginning.

Stuff for TS2 · TS3 · TS4 | Please do not PM me with technical questions – we have Create forums for that.

In the kingdom of the blind, do as the Romans do.
Forum Resident
#925 Old 5th Nov 2007 at 11:45 PM
Oh good noil! But maybe we should go to a different thread. Mootilda has much reading to do and if she isn'tinterested in this, I would hate to 'make' her read through it until she's ready to. ?

Mootilda, your LA lot size notation is fine, the problem was with me. Sorry for the confusion.
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