I've seen this wee gamey foible in the past, but after it popped up once again with my latest University household last night, I thought I'd pop up and say something about it.

So apparently, while I wasn't looking (because I have eight Sims to look after and I'm not obsessive-compulsive enough to pause the game every 0.75 seconds), Crash did something which annoyed Hattori. And you know how it goes when Sims upset each other; some interactions spread the rancor evenly between the two Sims (ie. Shove or Slap), while other interactions heap most or all of the disgruntlement on the Sim who's on the receiving end (ie. most of the Pranks, and all of the Flirts, I think...and Crash, you'd better not be doing that with Hattori, daggit...). So whatever it was, Hattori was cranky about it and Crash wasn't, which suggests that Crash was the instigator of the bad vibes here.


So why would Hattori have to be the one to Apologize for something that Crash did? Why wouldn't it be the other way around? Did Maxis goof up with the Apologize interaction, or am I overlooking something else here? What are your experiences with Apologize, and is it just as kooky on your end?


(I should probably keep a closer eye on these two, because after I had them both fishing together and they got their short-term Relationship up to 90 or 100 on both ends, something else happened while I wasn't looking and now their Relationship with each other is 30-ish or 40-ish and they're Furious with each other for the moment. So they're apparently destined to butt heads. It doesn't help that Crash is extremely Sloppy and Hattori's extremely Neat, I suppose....)

That is. Recently I played Beakers in Strangetown and both Beakers ( 10 neat) were furious as hell at Nervous (0 neat) because they needed to clean puddles what he left in bathroom. Even thought they had fun doing it.

Recently it has appeared to me that both Sims get the option to apologize, could that have been added in the Ultimate Collection? Or it might be that I don't try apologizing till they've both picked tons of fights, since my feuds tend to start at parties when I'm not controlling the angry pair.

Maybe it should have been something like "make up" instead of apologize. Too bad apologizing seems to have little impact no matter who does it.

So was Nervous able to apologize to the Beakers for being such a slob, or did the burden of apology rest solely on the Beakers' shoulders somehow?

I didn't check the apologize, but Nervous is that kind of sim who never do it. He likes to prank everyone. He only went gossip with Circe when her fury was over.

"Nervous, I'm so sorry you're such a worthless excuse of a person and can't even clean up after yourself. I'm sorry you have no friends and no one who loves you. Yo mama didn't even want you. And most of all I'm sorry I have to clean up the puddles you leave in my house because I kidnapped you and made you live here while I run experiments on you and torture you...and to be clear I'm sorry about the puddles, not the kidnapping thing. So sorry....now get in the machine and dance."

A perfect Loki Beaker non-apology. Love it!

It's life simulation: you know perfectly well you were in the right, but you apologise anyway for the sake of a quiet life. It's just not worth standing up for your supposed rights.

A few days ago I had a similar situation with Juliette Capp and Jamie Siddons. Juliette was out shopping for new clothes at Fantasia Fashions with Hermia. Her steady boyfriend Jamie Siddons turned up and she kissed him. Then Romeo Monty, her other steady boyfriend turned up and she kissed him too -- in front of Jamie. Jamie got mad at both Juliette and Romeo for what he saw as cheating. Juliette didn't get mad at all; she sees nothing wrong in having two steady boyfriends and kissing both of them, but she apologised to Jamie anyway because she loves him and wants the relationship to continue. I made Jamie controllable to make it easier to control the situation. He really felt justified in being furious with both of them, but he apologised anyway because . . . a quiet life is better than fighting, and it's hard not to like Juliette, and she's the Capp heiress and you really don't want to get on the wrong side of the Capps, and she changed into a very sexy bikini she'd just bought, and it made her rather irresistible. I got them both to apologise a few times, and Jamie's fury began to subside. Juliette's love for Jamie (and for Romeo) never waivered, so when I started telling Jamie to make romantic moves on Juliette, she accepted them all. And Jamie really couldn't resist Juliette standing in front of him in her tiny bikini. When they reached the stage when they were making out, and Jamie was only a little bit mad at Juliette, I made him unselectable again, and Hermia tactfully suggested that it might be a good idea if he went home till he calmed down completely. Something will still have to be done to mend Jamie's relationship with Romeo, but there's time enough for that. In the long term something will have to be done about that, because Juliette's eventual plan is to have them both at Capp Manor as her husbands -- so they've got to learn to rub along together. As their wife, Juliette will expect as much.

Anyway both were able to apologise although only Jamie was furious. I don't have the UC -- only Double Deluxe and OFB. I have two Cyjon hacks, CJ-ApologyFuryFix and CJ-SoothingApology, to make apology more effective, and a hack by Chris Hatch to stop boys hitting girls (because I find male on female violence very offensive). I believe Inge Jones has a more effective apology fix on Simlogical, but it needs some EP that I don't have. I also have Pescado's Romance Mod, so, as an easy-going Romance Sim from a well-to-do family, Romeo will probably have no problems with Juliette having another boyfriend, but Jamie (Popularity), from a much poorer background, really has a hard job getting his head round Juliette's ideas about love. For my part, I love them all! :lovestruc

I have two twins in my game that I cannot even let be near each other anymore. Vanessa and Vincent Bachelor - the twins of Bella Goth and Vidcund Curious. I'm not sure what first started the fued, but they now attack each other at any given opportunity, including their cousin's daughters' birthday party. I made them apologise to each other over and over again until they were at a reasonable relationship score,and then I left them to do whatever while I had Jill bring her twins to the birthday cakes... and then I turn back round and they're shoving each other again! Completely ruined the party

I think it's just a coding issue (sorry!) Sims who have a good relationship with the other have nothing to inform them that they are supposed to apologise to the other. Whereas the aggrieved does. And you can't go around putting "I am mad at X" information from Y onto X's character file to inform him whether or not he's supposed to have the apologise option available, because it bloats and because Y might not be on the lot and... well, probably just because it's more complicated, and in 99% of cases, both sims will be furious at each other, so it doesn't matter, because either can apologise

If you want to look at it from a social perspective, you could say that Crash is just that kind of insensitive jerk who goes around offending people but never has the foresight to apologise, because in his eyes, he's done absolutely nothing to apologise for!

And as an afterthought, the actions which induce furiousness or such an extreme drop are things like "throw drink" and "slap", which are probably not supposed to come out of nowhere... I'd imagine a sim to only be throwing drinks and slapping as a RESPONSE to some offensive behaviour, and thus, the recipient is the one who started it all and really should apologise.

BigSimsFan: Try having them live in separate homes and call each other on the phone to chat. Somehow that always seems to repair an adversarial relationship.

In my case Juliette had a good relationship towards Jamie throughout, yet she was able to apologise. (The option was available to her; she didn't do it autonomously.) It was as if she "knew" that Jamie was mad at her. Or perhaps she "knew" she'd done something that could offend him. Perhaps it's different when cheating is the cause of the bad feeling.

I agree with simsfreq about using the 'phone to repair a relationship -- the other Sim can't poke you over the 'phone! It can even help with Sims who do live together. Lilith phoned Angela from her grandparents' house. Another thing I find helps is to get the two Sims to sit together on a sofa. Unlike Talk... Chat, they keep on talking even after a disagreement, and their relationship usually improves quickly. Of course (unlike the 'phone) you have to keep an eye on them to make sure they don't stand up and start fighting! Over in Pleasantview I got the Caliente sisters on very good terms that way. (I fear they may nor stay such good friends when they realise that Don's been having affairs with both off them! )

I've considered it, but I try not to go too far out of my way to make things happen. I'm thinking Bella and Vidcund will break up and one twin will go off with one parent though, but I doubt they'd call each other. Hopefully by their next family reunion their relationship will be back in the neutral zone though.
They both have 1 nice point.

Yeah, that sounds like Crash, all right.


As far as hassle-free Relationship-building goes, I've found group activities like fishing and playing poker to be just as good as phone calls. Although some group interactions (like Toss Football, Snowball Fight and Kicky Bag) can be refused by someone who doesn't like you enough, fishing ponds and poker tables broadcast Fun so much that your Sim's worst enemies might spontaneously come over, join in and strike up some non-interruptible chatter with your Sim. I should try that with Mindy Pugiless and Mortimer Goth some time.

Fishing is what got Hattori and Crash up to Friendship, in fact. Of course, then they had to go ruin that somehow. Thanks, Free Will. .

I'm about 90% sure I have a fix for that, but a quick search of my downloads turns up nothing for apologize or forgive. So I wonder if it's part of one of Pescado's package fixes, maybe?

Cyjon has the Apology/Fury fix: http://cyjon.net/node/374
Description: Apology will reduce furiousness, as it was originally supposed to.

Pescado has puddle rage fix called nopuddlerage here: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/ffs/al/hacks/

Apologising appears to any Sim who has a bad relationship with another; I don't think it even checks if the other Sim feels badly about them. So with sufficient relationship wrangling, you can get the situation where one Sim is apologising to another Sim who has no idea what the first Sim has to apologise for because they consider the relationship perfect.

Even the Unsavoury Charlatan and Mrs Crumplebottom will be sociable instead of annoying and join in on a poker table.

This. Poker tables work!

Too bad the Charlatan cheats at cards, eh? As if picking people's pockets wasn't enough knavery.

Hey Pizza...I installed some bodyshape skins from Warlokk...why do all of my Sims now have...3D...um, details on the chest? Did I do something wrong? Cuz I didn't ask for that...not sure I like it. The...details don't line up with my default replacement skins. I'd show a pic but uh...yeah

Nipple bumps, you mean? Don't be alarmed; the Simmy men have them too. It kind of looks like me when the snow's falling in the dead of winter and I go outside without a shirt anyway.

Come to think of it, I wonder why mothers can't breastfeed their babies in TS2. There would be far fewer stinky baby bottles to clean up, for starters.


Nah. Warlokk is as Warlokk does.


Wait till you install something with nipple piercings. You'll come to appreciate the bumps after that. .


Double nipples, right? I think I've seen that a few times myself. It might just be a matter of finding a skin that's made specifically for that mesh, that's all.

Anyway, back to the topic, I've gone ahead with downloading and installing Cyjon's apology fix. Even if there's no way to get the offender to apologize instead of the offendee, it's a step towards smoothing the troubled waters whenever one of my Sims autonomously does something stupid, because juicers can only make so many strawberry smoothies. Some of Cyjon's other mods and fixes have worked for me (ie. No Alien Sexism), some haven't (ie. Make 5 Reagents). Fingers crossed for good results here.

I still find it remarkable that, in the situation I described, Juliette. presumably the "offender", was able to apologise to Jamie although her feelings towards him were still very positive. I suppose that she was aware that the short term friendship between them had been broken even though she still loved him very much. Maybe it's a bit of, "I know Jamie must think I've done something wrong, so I'll say I'm sorry anyway, because I value our relationship. Even though I don't really think it was wrong to kiss Romeo." Anyway the "offender " was able to apologise in my game. Perhaps the difference is that Crash and Hattori weren't friends in the first place, so there was no friendship tag to break.

Incidentally I got Juliette to be going steady with both boys by temporarily removing the Steady tags between her and Romeo in SimPE, and then reinstating them once she and Jamie were going steady. Someone here (I can't remember who) suggested that to me some time ago, as a way to fulfil Juliette's want to go steady with Jamie, without fulfilling her fear of breaking up with Romeo. She clearly wanted both of them. I put this down to Juliette, as the Capp heiress, expecting to get what she wanted, and not really thinking that normal conventions applied to her.

Pizzatron, you might want to try Cyjon's soothing apology too. It makes the apology more effective. Both seem to work for me. I had them making out before they left the clothes shop.

Warlokk's special body shapes usually require a skin that has been matched to them as they have different nipple positioning from the default. For example, http://www.insimenator.org/showthread.php?t=27611.



http://www.leefish.nl/mybb/showthread.php?tid=1247



I kind of feel a bit sorry for Jamie. He's obviously a one woman man and she isn't a one man woman.

I think it has something to do with an American obsession about breasts and nipples. In my country there's a very strong health message in favour of breastfeeding. "Breast is best!" I understand the breastfeeding animation has been in the game from the start, but EA suppressed it.

Personally I don't think nipples have got anything to do with sex at all. They're just nature's device for feeding babies!

Men have nipples because all embryos start as basically female, until correct hormones are introduced.

It says Barbie. Are these nudes or just have nothing where the nipple goes?