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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 2:21 AM
Default What are the grades in UNI?
Here in Portugal (and consequently in the Portuguese version), the grades in University go from 0 to 20. Anything below 10 and you're probation. How is it in the English version?
Since I'm writing a story here and the next chapter will include University, I'd like to know that, so readers won't stare at the text and say "What? 20.0 GPA?"
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 2:33 AM
It follows the US college grade system, which is 0 to 4. A 4.0 is a perfect average; if you graduate with one, you're summa cum laude. Gradations are in decimal increments below that, so a 3.9 average will graduate magna cum laude and a 3.8 will be cum laude. Below that, you just graduate, or fail.

Alongside this, just to confuse non-Americans, the text will also match this system with the letter grade system, in which the mid-point of a grade range is a letter A (3-4), B (2-3), C (1-2), or D (.1 to 1). A 0 is an F (for Fail; the missing E is a pre-standardized testing grade that teachers, especially in elementary school, used to give in order to recognize hard work and improvement even if the grade still didn't come up to snuff; E for Effort). A simple letter grade represents the mid-range of the numerical grade, and plus and minus signs are used to indicate that the numerical grade is in the lowest or highest range possible.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Mad Poster
#3 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 3:25 AM
Never knew that about E. Interesting. A, B, C etc. is the grading system I'm most familiar with.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#4 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 10:54 AM
How can you have a perfect average? I know - that's the terminology but it doesn't make sense.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Field Researcher
#5 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 11:02 AM
Quote: Originally posted by maxon
How can you have a perfect average? I know - that's the terminology but it doesn't make sense.


In real life, you mean? Get the highest grade possible in all your classes (I guess that's a 4 in USA universities?).

In many European countries the scale is 1-10; I'm not sure if the 'pass' grades are the same in all those countries, but here 1-5 is fail, while 6-10 is pass. Somebody who has all 10's (which is extremely rare, but I know about a few cases) would have a perfect average of 10.0.
Instructor
#6 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 1:20 PM
seems like in Britain we do it differently to everywhere else...our degree classifications go First, 2:1, 2:2 (which is seen as average), 3rd, Pass, and Fail. They all correspond to different percentages, e.g. to get a First you need an average of 70% overall + over 70 in your dissertation.

Whenever I play Sims 2 Uni I never have any idea what is classed as a good grade, or what 'summa cum laude' etc means

Bustin' Out!
Theorist
#7 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 1:28 PM Last edited by esmeiolanthe : 28th Mar 2015 at 1:43 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by maxon
How can you have a perfect average? I know - that's the terminology but it doesn't make sense.


It's your "Grade Point Average": You take your grades in all your classes and average them. Let's say I have four classes and I score a 4.0 in all four. My Grade Point Average (or GPA) would be 4.0: (4.0+4.0+4.0+4.0)/4=4.0, or a perfect GPA. Now let's say I didn't do as well in two of my classes: I got a 4.0, a 4.0, a 3.5, and a 3.0. My GPA would be 3.625: (4.0+4.0+3.5+3.0)/4=3.625. I Believe that is equivalent to a B+ average.

It doesn't make as much sense in the sims, since sims only have one class and you can't really average one of anything, but that's the way GPA works and that's what Peni was talking about.

Quote: Originally posted by pinimon162
Whenever I play Sims 2 Uni I never have any idea what is classed as a good grade, or what 'summa cum laude' etc means


A C is average, B is better than average, and A is good. B- is worse than a B, B+ is better than a B but not as good as an A-, which is not as good as an A. (Unless you are me with my horrible unrealistic expectations for myself, but we won't go there.)

"Cum laude" means "with honors" and is a distinction given to anyone who graduates with a overall (entire Uni career) GPA higher than a certain mark. I believe where I went to school it was 3.65, but I can't remember.
"Magna cum laude" means "with great honors" and is given to anyone who graduates with an overall GPA a certain amount higher than the cum laude mark. I believe that where I went to school it was 3.8.
"Summa cum laude" means "with highest honors" and is given to anyone who graduates with a perfect GPA. Where I went to school, that was 4.0.

EDIT: Peni's threshold for the honors and mine do not match. Either I am misremembering GPAs from neveryoumindhowmany years ago, or different schools have different requirements. I know I graduated cum laude, but I remember only three of my grades from college. (My first-ever C, which made me cry for an hour; the B that was entirely the teacher's fault and not mine; and the A that absolutely nobody, including both the teacher and me, thought I would earn.) So maybe I did have a 3.8?

You will only get one honor, not multiple. Nobody is cum laude and summa cum laude for the same degree.

NOTE: "Cum" is pronounced "KOOM". I know that there is a word used in adult entertainment that looks the same, but they're not the same thing nor pronounced the same.

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#9 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 2:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Vixxen
In real life, you mean? Get the highest grade possible in all your classes (I guess that's a 4 in USA universities?).

No, that's not what I meant.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#10 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 2:35 PM
I think maxon is talking about the oxymoron.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Theorist
#12 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 3:03 PM
Except that "perfect grade point average" is not an oxymoron, as I mathematically demonstrated above. The thing is, "grade point average" is a single noun made up of multiple words, and the meaning of the whole is not exactly the same as the meaning of the individual words. Since "grade point average" basically means "specific number used in a specialized context arrived at in a prescribed way under certain defined circumstances," it is entirely possible to designate one specific number as "perfect."

It's rather like saying "jumbo shrimp" is an oxymoron. If you accept "shrimp" as only meaning "small," then yes, it is. However, if you accept "shrimp" as meaning "a particular variety of shellfish of an approximately uniform size," then any variety of that shellfish that is significantly larger than the approximately uniform size can correctly be called "jumbo." And in the case of "jumbo shrimp," I have yet to meet anyone who used the phrase in any context other than that of seafood in general and shellfish in particular.

EDIT: @PlatinumPlumbob You say "I have a 3.0" or "My GPA is 3.0" or I have a B average." You would only use a comparative term like "perfect" to refer to a 4.0 GPA.

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
Mad Poster
#13 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 3:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by pinimon162
seems like in Britain we do it differently to everywhere else...our degree classifications go First, 2:1, 2:2 (which is seen as average), 3rd, Pass, and Fail. They all correspond to different percentages, e.g. to get a First you need an average of 70% overall + over 70 in your dissertation.

Whenever I play Sims 2 Uni I never have any idea what is classed as a good grade, or what 'summa cum laude' etc means

I'm the complete opposite. I know all about grading systems in America because of Sims, but I barely understand our grading system. I always thought I was doing badly by getting around a 60-65, then I find out I'm actually above average
In fact I didn't even know a 1st Class mark was 70% until I read your post (and I'm a second year ), wooo I'm 5% away from getting the best grade, and I always thought I was barely passing.

I was writing a story about uni too, which I still never get round to uploading to the story section - but I decided not to include talking about grades because I thought it would be easier to be ambiguous and take some uni life from America and some from Britain.

~Your friendly neighborhood ginge
Mad Poster
#14 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 4:05 PM
Brag time: A perfect GPA is hard as heck in real life, but perfectly possible, as my little sister did it for her second degree. Mom and I were sitting in the audience waiting for her graduation ceremony trying to find her in the program and getting real frustrated because she didn't seem to be anywhere, then I found a tiny list under "summa cum laude" and there she was! We asked her why she hadn't told us she was a summa and she said: "It's not that big a deal." We told her she might be smart but she was dead wrong about that!

I couldn't tell you the exact cut-off grades for the different degrees of honors go (except summa is only ever 4.0); but I believe the numbers I gave are correct for sims. You'd expect them to be a little stricter, since it's so much easier to get good grades in the game.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#16 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 6:00 PM
You're doing pretty well BigSimsFan but how you got to your second year without realising what that meant is ... odd. Students, in my experience, usually know to a 10th of a percentage point exactly what their grade means.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
#17 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 6:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by maxon
You're doing pretty well BigSimsFan but how you got to your second year without realising what that meant is ... odd. Students, in my experience, usually know to a 10th of a percentage point exactly what their grade means.

I associate myself with the lazy students who don't even know what classes they're turning up for
My high school and Sixth Form never expected me to go to university so they didn't prepare me for it and my Mother and older sister didn't go to uni, so everything I know about it comes from Sims, the animated show "Undergrads" and personal experience.

On a side note; Do all students in America go to college/university for 4 years like in Sims?

~Your friendly neighborhood ginge
Theorist
#18 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 6:47 PM
@Bigsimsfan12 A lot of Americans do, but not all of them. It's a matter of money, grades, money, interest, money, planned career path, and money. It's not at all unusual to leave a four-year college with loans for tens of thousands of dollars to pay back -- or even hundreds of thousand of dollars. I finished grad school owing only $10,000, but I only managed that by working full-time, going to an inexpensive school (not a prestigious one), and refusing most of the financial aid I was offered. If I had not refused most of the financial aid that was offered, I would have graduated with probably about $96,000 in debt instead. If you can't afford to take on that debt, or if you don't qualify for loans like that in the first place, you don't go to college on the four-year track.

That said, a lot of colleges and universities offer tuition wavers for their employees, tied to how much you work. If you work full-time, you get a full tuition waiver. If you work part-time, you get a partial tuition waiver. When I was in undergrad, one of the women who cleaned the art building full time (night shift) was doing so in order to afford her master's degree. She could not have paid for it otherwise, and she was significantly older than the traditional student.

Uni isn't so crushingly expensive in the UK, is it?

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
Mad Poster
#19 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 7:27 PM
We also have tech schools and two-year colleges. For instance, at the local state university, you can get a one year technical certificate in general welding from the tech school part of the university. You can also get an Associate degree (Associate of Applied Science) or a Bachelor of Applied Technology in welding. (There's no Master's in welding--probably because the university hasn't managed to convince anyone to pay for it yet!) Jumping over to the rest of the university, you could get a Bachelor of Science in Engineering, a Master of Science in Engineering, or a PhD in Engineering. (Closest related field to welding, for the sake of examples.) So you can take a one year certificate, a two year AAS, a 4 year BAT or BS, two additional years for an MS, and as many more years as it takes you PhD. There are all sorts of permutations of degrees--my own is a BMus, which stands for Bachelor of Music. My husband has a BA--Bachelor of Arts.

Confused yet? Don't worry, we are, too. And many of us have degrees only loosely or not-at-all related to what we do. There were a couple of American radio show personalities who combined auto mechanics with humor (Car Talk). Turned out they both had degrees from MIT, the elder in business and the younger in humanities and science. The elder went on and got a master's and a doctorate in business-related subjects.

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
Mad Poster
#21 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 8:59 PM
By the way, Summa isn't always a perfect average. In many colleges, 3.9 is also considered Summa. I know. I had a 3.92, and graduated Summa.

It is a pretty high average, though.

Here is one sample: http://www.miami.edu/index.php/hono...duation_honors/

Some colleges have a somewhat more flexible range: http://www.auburn.edu/administratio...ion_honors.html . However, though I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, most of the time, you need a 3.8 and up to get Summa, and often, a 3.9 and up.

And some colleges allow a really small range: http://www.rochester.edu/college/CC...ook/Honors.html (Apparently, some colleges place a higher emphasis on percentages than others.)

So there is no one definite range for all these honors.

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The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#22 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 9:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by esmeiolanthe
Uni isn't so crushingly expensive in the UK, is it?

It would be if the Tories had their way. I'm a product of the period when students didn't have to pay if they got a place so I think it's outrageous that we expect students to pay now. Loans were coming in when I was part way through my undergraduate course. The debt they can end up with as an undergraduate can be £27,000 for course fees which is about $43000 which is more than enough). Masters degrees are another issue (as are PhDs) though are cheaper. Scotland is also another story.

Having said that there are far more people going to college than when I went and the money has to come from somewhere. People are beginning to think that there's no point going though - you might have a higher earning potential but all you end up with is debt. I sympathise completely.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
Mad Poster
#23 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 10:22 PM
Also at some schools if your parent is a university employee you can go for less. If Husband or I worked at the university Mom works at we could send the kids for $20/credit, which is pretty dang cheap. But we don't. We've half-jokingly tossed around the idea of her adopting them just for the cheap college--but she'll likely be retired by then.

Pics from my game: Sunbee's Simblr Sunbee's Livejournal
"English is a marvelous edged weapon if you know how to wield it." C.J. Cherryh
Theorist
#24 Old 28th Mar 2015 at 11:58 PM
@PlatinumPlumbbob @Sunbee That's a good chunk of how I paid for my undergrad (bachelor's) degrees. (I got two at the same time.) My mother worked for the university where I went 3/4 time, so I got a 3/4 tuition break, and then I had a partial academic scholarship. My parents paid the additional $785.00 per quarter for the tuition, I paid for all my books and supplies out of the scholarship and my part-time job, and I lived at home which covered room and board. (My father told me that as long as I got good grades, I would not have to pay rent.)

But statistically speaking, most people in America don't have parents who work for a university, and even those who do don't always want to go to the specific university that their parents work for. At an in-state state school, it costs about $23,410 per year to send a child to college, and at a private university (and I am guessing an out-of-state state school) it costs $46,272 per year. (Source) That's a lot of money, and if you have more than one child, you're looking at that multiple times over. So that usually means loans for someone, whether that's the parents or the children.

esmeiolanthe's Live Journal and Tumblr
Most recent story update: Fuchs That! on 2/21/15
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#25 Old 29th Mar 2015 at 12:19 AM
That is one difference here then - because second and third children get grants.

I no longer come over to MTS very often but if you would like to ask me a question then you can find me on tumblr or my own site tflc. TFLC has an archive of all my CC downloads.
I'm here on tumblr and my site, tflc
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