Thinking of some of the points that have been raised over here and at "the other place" I am beginning to feel that *all* shared lots, whether or not edited with the LE, should come with the following instructions to the user to put them in the hood, do a token build action, and save before use. At that point they should delete the original from the bin and replace it with the one they saved in their own hood. This is the best way to ensure the lot has been compatibilised with their game.

Otherwise there are actually things *running* on the lot as soon as it is opened in live mode, such as visitor generators, day/night cycles etc. There might be an object running that isn't even known about in a more advanced EP.

I think that we should all add this advice to our uploads and then see whether this completely stops the 7PM crash. However, remember to tell people to change something. I've definitely seen cases where the internal structure of the lot package isn't updated if the lot is saved without "enough" changes. I usually just grab the front door and then place it back in the same place before saving.

Of course, this does nothing for the couple of people who have found themselves unable to save the lot.

I agree. If people want to maintain their ability to use the lot with an older EP, they can keep the original Sims2Pack and perform the same set of actions with that EP as well.

Not sure what you're saying here, Inge. Could you expand this idea a bit?

You're welcome. I'm really glad that I was able to provide this to the simming community and I really appreciate all of the help that I've had in trying to find the problems. I wouldn't have been able to do nearly as much if I had to do all of this testing myself.

What I was wondering about was, since it's being suspected that lots built with BV do not crash (but then again, see above, the currently available BV lots haven't been tested as extensively *by far* as the Base/NL ones), whether or not this would also be true for Seasons. Or Pets or OfB, for that matter.

To try and disprove this, I could open/change/close one of mine in my Seasons game, and see whether it still crashes. I'm not near my windows (=TS2) computer right now, unfortunately. But Rascal (she has up to Seasons) already said that she still crashes after editing+saving the lot -- here's her post: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s...77584#msg277584 --, which seems to indicate it's really only BV that makes a difference.



But this can only play a role for BV users, no? I build and playtest my lots in the exact same game configuration (Base; Base+NL respectively) -- I'm 100% compatible with myself, so to speak --, and I crash.

Not saying that BV (or EP's in general) does not play a role, or that it isn't a good idea in general, just that it won't solve things for (some? all?) Base/NL users.



Afraid not .. didn't DocDoofus report that he did save, and crashed? (He has BV)

Here: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s....html#msg277150

and here:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s....html#msg277133

Sorry for so much disagreeing =)



Have there been such reports? About *consistently* not being able to save, I mean? Maybe my memory is blurred, but I only remember one person on my house download thread, and two on the MATY thread -- one of them was Simsample who said she crashed on saving one time, but wasn't able to reproduce that. Will try to check this later. ETA: see her last post , yes she only crashed on saving one time, and: "I wonder if my previous crash on saving was actually caused by the transition back to day mode that occurs when hitting the (...) button?"


Mootilda and Inge (in particular -- you two seem to know most about what's in a lot file),

do you think it is worth investigating the fact that only CAS sims are crashing? Or is it likely irrelevant? I have a feeling that there might be some significance to it, since it's one of the very few things that are really consistent so far .. you know more about the technical basis, what do you think? (Or are you already one step further -- as in, those sims are leaving invisible debris off-lot, etc?)


Also: Unless I'm overlooking something, Baratron (on MATY thread) posted that she was unable to produce any crashes with her hacks in, and did crash without hacks. With the same game configuration, same lots and same type of sims on it. Here's the post:

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s...77568#msg277568

I think she's currently trying to single out which hack causes the non-crash .. if we're lucky, a fix has already been written? Fingers crossed!?


(I'm aware that many of you are reading that thread as well .. but maybe not all of you)

I played some Seasons rowhouses yesterday, and still couldn't crash them. Both of my uploaded basegame ones, and the one I half-made IN Seasons. All with CAS sims, all first time played. One lot had no lights at all ;-).

You may have had the curse of Plasticbox, I seem to have the opposite curse! Not that I WANT my game to crash, I supppose, but it's odd that I just cannot force a crash when others can do it every time.

Sounds as though you're all having fun with it still - I feel I am not able to be much help unless I can get the crash, or come up with a brilliant idea.

Mootilda, I didn't realise the tutorial attachment would need to be approved (silly me), and removed the draft versions already. Do you want me to upload the file here too, or just wait for it to appear on the 'real' thread?

Well in that case everyone can disregard what I said in my last post. If you're crashing with your own lots it can't be that.

Except - if you're switching between EPs using the AGS, then isn't that just doing the same thing as sharing with someone who has different EPs?

Inge, I wasn't switching -- I built in Base+NL, then playtested in Base+NL -> crash.

I usually don't playtest lots in anything else than the game I've built them with, because I'm too lazy to package+install my own lots (to move it between different games, i mean) .. I package, then playtest directly. (only rarely I do move lots to SSn for checking wheatherproofness, not in this case though)


aelflaed: do you happen to have any hacks in, by any chance? I think you did post about it somewhere but I can't remember / find it.

Hacks...not many. I have a bubble bath fun hack. MaryLou/Numenor's window fixes, and their kitchen counter fixes (are those hacks anyway?). NoQuickcoverup, and quaxi's censor blur remover. Probably should get rid of one of those.

However, those are all in my full game, and not attached to the BGS.

Lots of hacked objects, by the way, in my fullgame. Some in basegame, none in the other BGS configurations.

I believe I have NVidia, for what it's worth.

By "not attached to the BGS", you mean in TS2 > TS2_BaseGame > Downloads are no hacks whatsoever .. yes?

Oh. Breaking news from the other channel -- Baratron managed to isolate one hack that prevents the lots from crashing. It has to do with portals, allegedly. Please read this post:

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s...77768#msg277768

Off until tomorrow. Glad I still saw this =).

Looks like I ought to check the portals on all of the crashing lots. I'm sorry that I haven't been paying enough attention, but could someone give me the list of lots which have crashed?

I know about these two:
plasticbox: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=254042
aelflaed: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=254686

Are there any other lots which have been having this problem?

By the way, if it's true that a visitor always comes on to the lot at 7pm, then this is very related to the portals.

If there were multiple portals before shrinking, the LE would not have tried to move them to their correct location on the lot. So, there's a possibility that some of these portals are in positions which make the game crash... possibly next to a wall or fence?

I have noteleportpuddles in my game and it doesn't prevent the crashes. One other person on MATY has noted the same thing.

I often note a walkby at 6pm - but not 7pm. I will try and pay more attention next time I am in game.

[Lot -shrinking] - trouble-shooting

In EP6 BV,
no hacks
all new cas sims (at least 1 male adult, 1 female adult, 2 teenager or kid),
cc: neighbourhood shader mod, Inge's portal revealers, modded wall.txt (modded wall1 [submersible true, requiresSupportUnderneath false, requiresFlatBottom false], attic walls [made visible in UI, submersible true, requiresSupportUnderneath false], foundation [made visible in UI, mayCutAway true, requiresSupportUnderneath false, mayAttachObjects true],
30x30-- each side except the front trimmed by 1.

Preparations for the testing lots,
1. brand new clone from the game tool
2. do the stated modification
3. save and exit
4. shrink the lot with LE/LA/LR
5. enter the lots and add and remove an object (a stove)
6. save and exit
7. make a new CAS family
8. add the family into a testing lot.

1. blank lot : no crash past1900, saved safely
2. build objs (plants, windows, doors, columns): no crash past1900, saved safely
3. furniture: no crash past1900, saved safely
4. only partitions and modular stairs: no crash past1900, saved safely
5. a fully furnished lot: no crash past1900, saved safely

I had only 1 crash in the base game as I said before. That lot is also a built lot with the back, left and right trimmed by 1 each. The lot was played through a few sims days without crash until the save. After a reload, no more crash was experienced.
But, the others were fine.

For infos of the moved lot, at the end, the attached pix.
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...2&postcount=746

Mootilda, the two other lots in my download thread have also been crashing (Row House 01 and 03):

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthre...654#post1804654
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthre...674#post1804674

But about the portals; Inge says she has all kinds of weird setups on her lots (no portals, lots of portals, in all kinds of odd places) and everything works just fine.

It's very puzzling. What this hack does: "fixes the issue when puddles seem to "teleport" magically out of range from the creator of the puddle, which I think sometimes happens when dripping water in the bathroom or sims peeing themselves and the puddle magically ending up on the other side of walls." (quote syberspunk, here.
I have no idea how relevant this would seem on a technical level, or what it has to do with portals.

What baratron reported does not sound like pure coincidence though .. crash without, no crash with this hack. Every time.


Rascal,

=(.

In my NL game, where some of this testing was done, the downloads folder contains in TOTAL - the ColourOptionsEnabler, the Portal Revealer and Frillen's driveway (courtesy of plasticbox), and the Scriptorium folders - don't think these can contain hacks. Nothing else at all.

The basegame Downloads are more extensive, and do contain hacked objects, but not hacks per se, as I understand them.

plasticbox, while I think of it, the pedestrian portals that enter at 90* off the norm, as on your original lot, have never appeared in any lots I have made with the automatic default portals - so I believe that problem was solved by Mootilda's update at the time. Just in case you were still wondering.

Mootilda et al, I'm playing my Seasons game today, but if there is something I can usefully check, I will - I'm out of ideas myself.

When I played pbox's lot, I'm sure I went in and moved the portals with Inge's flamingo. I do not have the puddle hack. I had no crash. But I haven't continued to play the lot either (am currently having an issue with the massage table but only in vacation destinations that I'm trying to figure out the cause.)

Oh: I have all EPs on a Vista 64 OS, 6600 dual core with 4 gigs of memory playing off a 10k Raptor drive. I do not enable the sim music.

Mutantbunny, I think going in to move the portals counts as "modifying the lot" .. from that point onwards, it was a BV lot.


Also, from the other channel: the theory that only non-BV lots crash seems disproved -- although it could still be that unpatched vs. patched BV makes a difference. See this post and the one before from ladykatsim (BV user who crashes on her own lots: on day/night view change in Build mode, on load, and at 7PM).


Also, question for the smart people: I'll try to playtest some tomorrow (or perhaps even later tonight), just to make sure I'm going to be doing something useful (or at least attempt it):

I plan to test for the following:

* Establish whether I crash *consistently* with simsample's recipe: CAS sim + not saving + Base game lot + 7AM (and/or perhaps even by changing to Night in build mode -- would save time, and rule out gameplay fuzziness)
* If yes, establish whether this is the case in all game versions I have (but continue testing with base game)
* If yes, either: build a set of minimal lots to test with (walls, foundations, fences etc) to see if I can find anything specific that starts to cause crashes when added

* Or: change some variables about the cas sims -- give them a job, relations, etc -- to see whether that changes anything. I would be grateful for ideas here (on what things to change): I have no idea what sorts of information about sims is being stored in a lot package (i.e., things we could change in-game to see if they make a difference); is this documented anywhere?

ETA: actually, maybe it would make more sense the other way around (since non-crashes can't prove anything) .. can anyone think of ways to change a sim so that he's more like a CAS sim? Delete their memories or something? Relationships? Anything related to time .. no, to darkness .. or both?

* Alternatively: test against my normal set of hacks and see whether the crashes still occur. If not, try and narrow down whether there's one particular hack that makes a difference the crashes.

Does this smake sense? Am I forgetting something? Am I on the wrong track with the CAS sim thing?

(For the record, I didn't know about the CAS sim thing last weekend, and havent had time to playtest since then except for one quick try (which was successful) -- I have previously recycled my test sims, so no surprise, in hindsight, that I only crashed sometimes).

My current theory is that multiple portals work fine.

However, the LE doesn't move multiple portals to ensure that they stay on the lot. Therefore, if a lot has multiple portals before shrinking, some of the portals may end up off of the lot, in a way which the game is unable to deal with.

You might be able to get the exact same effect by having the standard number of portals, but unchecking the "move portals" option in the LE, and then shrinking the lot in specific directions.

I noticed last night that Row House 01 has some portals at -1, -1. Now, this is just a guess and I haven't confirmed it at all, but there's a possibility that the game can't handle a portal which is off of the lot in both directions and which is pointing such that the visitor will never actually reach the lot.

I am considering making a change to the LE when "move portals" is checked (if you uncheck "move portals", then you're on your own): Move all portals to the standard locations, even if there are more portals than expected. This means that some portals might occupy the exact same space on the lot, but they would at least all be guaranteed to be on the lot.

Running the LE on crashing lots to unlock all tiles should then move all of the existing portals back onto the lot, where they can safely be moved or deleted.

Has anyone been crash-testing a shrunk lot that isn't built up to the edges? I know we're currently chasng portal ideas, but if it hasn't been tried, perhaps it should be.

Mootilda, something has changed in LE since I made the "landlocked" park. I laid a 3x3 lot, sloped for flooding, then expanded it backwards into the water, went back into the game to check that worked ok which it did. I then went into Advanced and unticked lock to road, and then into the resizing screen to shrink it from the front. My intention was to be left with only the underwater back part, and the road free to build another lot on.

Instead I found the lot had been brought forward to the road (sinking the road) after all. The lock to road tickbox unticked used to stop it doing that.

Anyway, it was a simple enough task to go back into LE and move it back. Just thought I would report in case that was a bug.

I attach a couple of pictures of my new habitable oil-rig.

I just edited my previous post without reloading the thread first *points at #765*


aelflaed, thanks, I'll add that to my list =).


Also, Mootilda: do you think it would make sense to try and find out what exactly that hack does that fixes the crashing for baratron (noteleportpuddle)? Or can you see that by looking at the hack?

My guess is that your U11 value was different this time. If you uncheck "lock to road", then the LE doesn't move your lot at all. However, the game still attempts to keep your lot at the Top, Left specified in the neighborhood package. Remember? This is why I am putting in the ability to move a lot.

I thought that people had managed to get the crash with this hack?

Yes, that's why I was asking: would it still make sense to check whether it provides any clues as to where the problem stems from? (Please have in mind, I have no idea what this hack is actually doing -- all I can see is that it does fix the crashing for one user)

But that's a house made with the *previous* version of the LE -- are you having that in mind? (Actually, if you think that only makes things more fuzzy, let me know + i take it down =)


Also:

A lot with nothing but roof on it pre-shrinking just crashed with a CAS sim on it when I toggled Night in Build mode, and an equivalent lot crashed while exiting the lot after having entered it post-shrinking to add one floortile (so the the size is being recalculated) -- no sim has ever been on the latter. It's only happened with one type of roof so far; I'm not done testing yet (will continue tomorrow). Screenshot below, see also this post.

Yes, if this has solved the crashing problem for some people, then I suppose that it would be worth trying to figure out what it does.

Unfortunately, I don't have the skill necessary to determine what it's doing; I don't know anything about writing hacks.

No, I wasn't keeping it in mind; I've completely lost track of what happens when with which lot.

Plasticbox, have you tried sharing those same lots *without* shrinking them? It would be funny if after all this hair-tearing it was just because your game was not compatible with the people testing the lots and nothing to do with the lot shrinker

Inge, it's not only my lots that crash (unfortunately). Yes I can try to do that, for the sake of scientific correctness, but I believe that with half a million previous downloads (many of them Base/Base+NL, just like the crashing lots) I'd have to have heard of the issue before.