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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 20th Mar 2006 at 11:58 PM
Default *Help*Any way to use max?
Hey,

I've finally decided to take up creating again, and I've been wanting to mesh clothing ever since it became available.

Well, today I sat down and read Neptune Suzy's tutorial(Thank you so much. You don't know how thankful I am that you wrote that). I could easily get an edited mesh from milkshape into the game, but I'm not so familiar with Milkshape( I really don't even like the program), and all my meshes looked like ****.

I tried importing the mesh into Milkshape using Wes's Body Chop Plugin, than exporting it as an .obj in 3ds max and editing it, but when I ultimatly tried exporting it with the Body Chop plugins after getting it back into Milkshape I would always get an error.

Does anyone out there use Max and know? Or does anyone know? I'm so excited about getting this to work, so come on people. lol

here's to hoping someone can help
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Forum Resident
#2 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 8:04 AM
u can get milkshape from here
www.milkshape3d.com trial is free
u cann use it easily-its very easy
Admin of Randomness
retired moderator
#3 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 8:15 AM
HeyDude,

As far as I'm aware, people have not been able to use 3D Max for body meshing. Does it support bones/envelopes? Does it support .smd format?

If you export an obj file from milkshape to another program and bring it back into bodychop (or the new unimesh plugin, which is the supported one) you will need to delete the old mesh parts (leaving the skeleton) rename your new group to match, and then recreate *all* the bone assignments, which is no small task, as some parts of the mesh have multiple bone assignments, so that would be incredibly... lots of extra work.
Instructor
#4 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 11:30 AM
Max is usable and with new SimPE mesh creation is fairly easy My eternal thanks to Skankyboy (by the way, where's the proper thread for them?) All is working - morphs, multiple bone assignments and even bump maps.

How far are you familiar with Max? Do you need more specific details then below?

You should export in SMD format, and import to Max using Cannonfodder exporter.
Hide all the bones so they don't get in the way - you can leave them hidden even when export back.
Bone assignments are stored in Skin modifier. Before doing any changes to mesh, you should turn Always Deform off on the Skin's Advanced Parameters rollout. You can also change Bone Affect Limit there to 3 or 4 (I've read that Nightlife meshes use 4) - it would make assighnment for new vertices easier, and wouldn't harm existing.
Important: you can save while half-done but make sure that you don't exit Max with Always Deform off and any mesh sub-level selected - all assignments would be lost
You can do whatever you want with the mesh If some modifiers - i.e Slice - would turn it into Editable Poly, it's ok - exported this way fine too (actually I prefer poly because it has more options).
When you're done with mesh changing, return to Skin modifier, set Always Deform on, press Edit Envelopes, check Vertices and uncheck Envelopes and Cross-sections. Now select your new vertices and set their weights in the Weight Table - its button is lower at the Parameters rollout.
You may also decide to Exclude Verts before for some bones - those that should never have assignments, i.e. root_trans - it will make weight assignment easier.

Morph states are exported in additional files - you should change them the same way as the normal mesh.

If you change mesh with >1 subsets, you should export and change each subset separately.

When export from Max, choose Reference in the exporter dialog, not Skeletal Animation.
When import to SimPe, choose proper value of bones per vertex, select paths to morph meshes (they would be found automatically if you named them the same as exporter from SimPE did), check the checkboxes near them, an check the Create Bump Normals checkbox to make relief working on your mesh. In the next dialog, select Replace.

My meshes are still not good enough to show them :o but believe me, this sequence works
Test Subject
Original Poster
#5 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 5:32 PM
OwaizooDE: I've bought Milkshape only b/c it is essential for making sims 2 clothing. I was hoping there was a way to get the meshes into max.

tiggerypum: Yeah, I wasn't planning on re-assigning....I don't have that much patience

Jasana_BugBreeder: Thank you so much! I've been using max for about a year on my own now, so some of these things I might not know. I'll try this sometime and see if I can do it. My question is...what tools will I need (To get it from SimPE into Max)? If I figure this out I want to write a tut on it. lol
Forum Resident
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21st Mar 2006 at 6:06 PM Last edited by OwaizooDE : 21st Mar 2006 at 6:16 PM.
This message has been deleted by tiggerypum.
Instructor
#6 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 6:40 PM
Quote:
what tools will I need (To get it from SimPE into Max)?
You need the latest SimPE - 056 - and Cannonfodder plugins for export/import smd files to Max. If you don't want to upgrade SimPE yet - 056 is alpha AFAIK - then you need MeshTool, but in this case you'll use morph and bump normals.
Quote:
If I figure this out I want to write a tut on it.
I actually started to write one but it's so exausting - to write tutorials

Quote:
when i tried to edit in 3ds max
i export my mesh was .obj and load into-

1) obj format cannot keep info about bone assignments, just like 3ds format
2) I had no luck at finding obj2max importer which wouldn't corrupt the mesh; on the other side, 3ds import/export is built-in
So, if you want to export without bone assignments, it's better to use 3ds format. If you need bone assignments, both obj and 3ds are not enough.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#7 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 6:49 PM
Ok. So...this is still kind of confusing. I read Neptune Suzy's tut to make the meshes-should I read Brianna's because it sounds like you are referring to that one. Oh, and if you finish the tut please tell me! lol. I'd be happy to help you out also if I get this figured out before you are done with the tut. (and I know what you mean about writing tuts. I've started so many and never finished them. lol) You are a great help!
Forum Resident
#8 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 7:21 PM Last edited by OwaizooDE : 21st Mar 2006 at 7:43 PM.
i have the latest ofb SimPE now i downloaded plugins u told me too
now i want to edit a hair mesh in 3ds max
but the problem is when i try to export hair as .smd from SimPE it says too much meshes-if i select only one group then it exports but this way cant edit hair properly-
and when i load a mesh with plugins u said
it adds a lot of other things which i cant get rid off

also
if someone knows a good tutorial on how to edit using 3ds max-please tell me-i want to learn-just basic editing-
Test Subject
Original Poster
#9 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 7:31 PM
Do one at a time maybe?
Forum Resident
#10 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 7:44 PM
thats not the way
it will ruin the mesh-theres a lot to see at the same time

heydude181
can i get u on msn-
my email in my profile-i need some basic info about 3ds max
Test Subject
Original Poster
#11 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 7:48 PM
I'll e-mail you later. I can't get in 3ds max now b/c I'm not at home.
Have you gotten any meshes to work properly in the game with 3ds max yet?
Forum Resident
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21st Mar 2006 at 7:51 PM
This message has been deleted by tiggerypum. Reason: Please stick to answering the question at hand, we don't need to know you don't know 3DS Max
Test Subject
DELETED POST
Original Poster
21st Mar 2006 at 7:55 PM
This message has been deleted by tiggerypum.
Forum Resident
#12 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 8:11 PM
i can help u with milkshape if u want
its easy

just use select and in select options click vertex and easily select all u want
use move to move wot u want
Test Subject
Original Poster
#13 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 8:25 PM
Oh- I know how to use it, but the controls suck. It's near impossible to select what your going for, there are not very many mesh modifier options, and it's hard to get things in the right place. It just takes way too much time in Milkshape. I really don't want to learn about Milkshape, it's more of trying to get the skin meshes into max and back into the game.

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Instructor
#14 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 10:53 PM
Quote:
I read Neptune Suzy's tut to make the meshes-should I read Brianna's because it sounds like you are referring to that one.
I really read Brianna tutorial only, but it doesn't tell much about mesh editing.
Quote:
but the problem is when i try to export hair as .smd from SimPE it says too much meshes-if i select only one group then it exports but this way cant edit hair properly-

I didn't tried hair yet, but for clothes plugin required to edit each subset separately. Why can't you edit this way?
If you want to change (i.e. scale) different subsets similarly, I'd suggest exporting them in 3ds format and then follow any of the scenarios:
- export each subset in smd format and while edit, temporarily import another subset(s) (using File->Merge) for reference
- edit mesh in smd format, and when finished, detach each sub-object and create smd file with it (and reassign bones) - it's rather tricky but possible
Quote:
if someone knows a good tutorial on how to edit using 3ds max-please tell me-i want to learn-just basic editing-

Recent thread where tutorials for Max was requested (and given). Also, I suggest Max tutorials - they're great
Test Subject
Original Poster
#15 Old 21st Mar 2006 at 11:02 PM
Well, I can edit, I just want to do it in max. So will editing in Max force me to re-assign all bones?

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Instructor
#16 Old 22nd Mar 2006 at 1:56 AM
Quote:
So will editing in Max force me to re-assign all bones?
Depends on what you do.
If you only move vertices - you don't need to reassign anything, or maybe change weights for the moved ones.
If you add vertices - you need to set weights for the added vertices. The more you add, the more you have to set (If you want to add new group, you should assign all of them of course )

The only thing I should note again is that if you save and exit Max with Always Deform unset and some sub-level selected, you would lose all weight assignments.
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22nd Mar 2006 at 6:06 AM
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Test Subject
Original Poster
#17 Old 22nd Mar 2006 at 1:44 PM
Ok. I'll give it a try sometime tonight or tomorrow. Thank you so much btw

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Admin of Randomness
retired moderator
#18 Old 23rd Mar 2006 at 12:56 AM
I've got an SMD tut in the plans, but it takes a LONG time to make a good tut, so you'll have to be patient, sorry. (I also dislike milkshape, and have been using XSI Modtool - and I helped test the smd import/export from simpe)

HeyDude or Jasana_BugBreeder - if you get with me once you've figured it out - maybe you can write up the tips that the Max users will need without having to write an entire tutorial from scratch.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#19 Old 23rd Mar 2006 at 3:54 AM
Sure, I'd be happy to help you write up something.....I've just got to figure it out first. lol. it might take me awhile

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Instructor
#20 Old 23rd Mar 2006 at 11:51 AM
Quote:
if you get with me once you've figured it out
Looks like I used wrong words before I did figured it out already - I did made several meshes and they do work in game, just have some flaws.
By the way, what is better in general - attach picture here or give link to it uploaded to non-USA server?
Here are 2 examples, both made in Max and exported/imported in smd format.
Sailor shirt - collar is added as new group. Flaws - bone assignments near shoulders are a bit bad - see how it is distorted there.
Kimono for teens. Flaws: I finished it literally the day before SimPE 056 was released (used Meshtool), so no morphs and no bump map normals. (I've already tested on another mesh made earlier that it is exported to smd and is editable, so fixing is only a question of time, since no need to redo from scratch.) Also, in this mesh all bone assignments were redone, so it needs thorough testing. In CAF animation looks fine.

As for tutorial, I'm almost done with mesh altering, remains to write about bone assignments and import. (And translate into English ) I'll probably finish to the end of week.
Admin of Randomness
retired moderator
#21 Old 23rd Mar 2006 at 4:35 PM Last edited by tiggerypum : 24th Mar 2006 at 3:38 AM.
Jasana, that's great news on the tutorial! And yes, the old meshtool option was limited, which is why I did a mini-tutorial of the smd version (with xsi modtool, as that's the program I knew about). Without morphs (I can live without bumpmaps, but morphs are a biggie) I felt fairly limited by what I could do with it. Please share when your tutorial is finished

PS - as for showing pics, you may upload them here or link to your server, it's up to you. If you decide to post a tutorial here, I request you upload the pics here, so that we don't overrun your server and so that if you need to switch servers sometime, that the tutorial here won't become broken.

Lab Assistant
#22 Old 24th Mar 2006 at 1:34 AM
Yes im interested too, for me Milkshape is a pain in modifiying/viewing polys, i have used 3dsMAX and have a lot more tools but at the end is more easy so i will finish this painly thingy i am making on milkshape then ill try 3ds Max ill post any advancement. Thx for the post i love 3ds MAX :wave:

My Wings are broken....my hands bleed...
Test Subject
Original Poster
#23 Old 24th Mar 2006 at 11:53 PM
Jasana. I can't wait to see the tut. I'm so gald you are doing this b/c I've been wanting to mesh for so long. Ty ty ty

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Instructor
#24 Old 31st Mar 2006 at 8:18 PM
Default I did it :o
Phew ok, here it is. Comments/suggestions/corrections appreciated.
Don't blame me for my English please :sorry:
Rar-archive of mht-file (Windows Explorer page archive, with pictures embedded) with tutorial is attached; if you prefer you can open this link, but beware - pictures weigh 2.5 Mb total
I tried to write full tutorial - with some advices on useful modifiers for mesh changing and my ideas about UVW mapping. I don't insist on my ways to change mesh but think they can be helpful to those who only start to learn Max.
I tried to list all Max stuff I used, so even newbies can follow it, but maybe I wasn't too descriptive sometimes :sorry:
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: rar new_clothing_mesh_eng.rar (2.44 MB, 325 downloads) - View custom content
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 11th Apr 2006 at 11:21 PM
Great tut but I just want to precise : your exported smd file is looking the floor in max because you were using XZY in axis you should use XYZ to have your mesh looking in the good direction (and see correctly the bones).
Field Researcher
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8th May 2006 at 9:59 AM
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