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Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#1 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 2:02 PM
Default Building Tutorials Wiki
Hi All,

Some of you may be aware of the http://sims2wiki.info/ site that I also host and run. Currently it contains a lot of details about file formats and has recently seen the Content Lists section expanding rapidly.

One of my ideas is to turn the wiki into a proper tutorials and resource area, with a good structure and cross linking between articles, as well as easy to use categories.

Currently the Building Tutorials (and the Community Tutorials) section here on MTS2 is a bit of a mess. Thats partially becuase we don't have many builders on staff and partially becuase I've been concentrating on other things.

The time has come, however, to change that. I would like volunteers, input and advice from the building community here in this forum as to how best to approach moving the tutorials to the Wiki.

There is currently a layout setup at http://sims2wiki.info/Sims_2_Modding with a Build Mode Tutorial section at http://www.sims2wiki.info/Category:Build_Mode_Tutorials

What I would like is a front page similar to the Content List section (http://www.sims2wiki.info/Content_Lists) with a breakdown of the different tutorials into sections.

Each tutorial can have it's own discussion thread here at MTS2, and can have a thanks button attributed to it.

What do you all think of the structure? Would anybody like to volunteer? What, if anything, should happen with the Community Tutorial lists?

Comments and feedback is appreciated

Regards
Delphy

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 4:06 PM Last edited by patul : 21st Nov 2006 at 4:12 PM.
I think that it will be a great idea to arange the building tutos. They are so numerous ! I will be glad to help the community to do it.

Let me know how I can help for this task.


You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Instructor
#3 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 4:20 PM Last edited by Khaibit : 24th Nov 2006 at 11:08 AM. Reason: ARRRRGH!
(Please, don't tell me that I don't "belong in here" - my Simmies live in houses, too, I read in the build section and now I even have to say something :D)

Hi Delphy and all others,

Wiki is quite different to this site, different to browse (cross links! ), different to search, find, edit... Until a few weeks ago I didn't like the Wiki, searching in there for infos was a horrible waste of time because usually the results seemed to be encrypted to me, written in programming codes from programmers to programmers, others unwanted in this "experts only" club (searched for package structure and feature explanations, interrelations, same for SimPE and it's settings/parameters/ whatever like e.g. the "Links Section" in the GMDC, SLOTs and tutorials - to understand not only the "how" but especially the "why").

A few weeks ago Numenor have had this nice idea to use the Wiki (looking back I ask myself if you were involved/ inspireing somehow :D) so I started to try and write in there - and I'm still struggeling with some editing things, deleting a site there is as impossible to me as "closing my own thread" in here but I keep on trying, it's not as comfortable as replying to threads but not difficult neither if you know how to. During this time I explored the Wiki, without searching but looking around - and I found the Content List with it's features, possibilities and solutions: links, permanently updated by guys like Notokay7052 and HP, all kinds of "needs" in a fantastic and even easy to browse and find database, available for everyone! I was and still am enthusiastic about it!

When you said you can even enable language support in the Wiki it was another reason for me to be enthusiastic again because understanding is so much easier when you don't have to translate while trying but can read in your mother tongue. Offering the possibility for language support of tutorials which can be kept as actual and up to date as the cross linked original is phantastic! I already said that I will translate the TXMT into German and take care for changes (support/host?! it) and together with others I can also take care for other stuff, whatever needs to be updated, also building tuts... Offering the possibility to translate informations between all our native tongs in one area and with the help of others around who can talk English better than the one who wants to offer information does not mean that the community could be splitted but it does mean that information can be easier and better prepared be shared - and this improves Wiki and Mod the Sims2. (Example for difficulties)

Patul, what about a French support?

This is the great advantage of the Wiki to all other sites/foren because the Wiki is the encyclopedia site in the net for Sims2 - and now it's getting prepared to work like this.

The Categories do need some updates - am I wrong to think that you want the other areas to be updated, too? :D

And keeping the discussion area in here, in threads with thank option is not just a clever because connecting both perfectly but also clever because using the advantages of both communication areas

Brilliant!
(And that's why I think you should get rid of so impractical stuff like your nose :D)

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Mad Poster
#4 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 4:43 PM
Khaibit, You are proposing a huge job ! A bit too big for my advice ! I re-wrote MY tutos from english to french... for a french site you dont know how it is difficult. I think there are some site able to do this job in each country, not one site for everybody. And do you think to the creators of these tutos, they must agree it first !

I am not saying no to your idea but perhaps starting with a clean english base must be the first thing.

You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Instructor
#5 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 5:11 PM
Did you take a look at my link? I thought it would be clear (not: correct) English...
And translating the TXMT stuff is a lot easier than writing (unfortunately I have to start English because otherwise I would write English words using German grammar - "and this would so to read which of course for those hard to follow is who aren't able to understand or at least able to follow are German because Grammar depends on the language that you talk not on the language in that you think." Roger?

Agree that their tutorials are offered in Wiki? Yes! Agreeing for translation? No -if you don't want the knowledge you offer to be shared you should avoid Wiki (works like Wikipedia, open sorce)

Huge job in the beginning (easier when many people help) but when a tutorial is already translated it's not difficult anymore as long as you watch it
Choosing the tutorial someone want to translate can be integrated in the "quality and double tutorial check" when uploading to the wiki.

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Mad Poster
#6 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 6:23 PM Last edited by niol : 22nd Nov 2006 at 5:29 AM.
There'e bads and goods I see of:

Goods:
1. html partially supported...
2: special symbols and formats are supported
3. more serious a place it is, so less likely to have irrelevant contents there.
4. easier to organise infos than a forum.
5. etc...

Bads:
1. it can be overwhelming for those who can't deal with many things on a page.
2. one has to learn how to browse around the site. So, probably more orientation notes or guides are necessary.
3. one may have to know the keystrings before hand, especially those terms for certain categories.
4. etc...

The build mode has always been messy... All new threads randonmly passed on.
Thus, when I started to read almost all the threads in this forum at the time, I built up my own categorised directory and its subs... and dumped the related pages and links into the appropriate subs... That's why i could reference links relatively efficiently without fooling around to seek the links and pages hellishly.
One big issue is that people can have used many ways to express similar issues. So, the search feature has its own limitation coz when the seekers's term(s) happens not to be the jargon terms or the terms used previously, they can't get to the pages... Then, they start new threads for some previously discussed topics...
For that, I'd suggeted to make some terminology threads to get seekrs orientated to know what terms they can use to search.
In such cases, only those who happens to know the older threads/posts may help.
I've not updated my reference folder for a long long time since the last year! So, those threads are meant to be messy! Also, there used to be threads discussing how to use certain build cheats or HCP or else... There're... several lot-download threads before the birth of the download forum; many feedback threads before the feedback centre came out; blah blah blah... before I bore all of you to sleep...

a forum is a modualr form of communicaitons, so threads/posts of infos can get scattered easily, no wonder. to solve some of the common needs, I make linkage posts to the related threads in hope of linking the related topics together for easier info-hunting, accumulations, etc... Surely, all these linkages posts are modular remote linkage centres to deal with the modularity of the forum. I only did the ones most popular or mostly likely newly-threaded... The less common ones are often just linked back or simply given out simple answers.

Back to the last year around this time, I was thinking of a more organised build mode forum with categorisations based on the build skills, build features, build objects/tools/else. Kopperman, a generous build-modder, had some cool ideas, too.
Yet eventually, the 2 sub-forums Build Mode Tutorials & Community Tutorial Listing were created to help organise th tutorials easier, or at least certain tutorial threads can have a place to go instead of being buried in piles of threads in the build mode forum. There're still some useful info threads and/or posts in the hidden archives... like those among the triple A one... etc...
After all, I was thinking of some plural sticky threads "based on the build skills, build features, build objects/tools/else" before the tutorial threads... Surely, a long-termed "librarian" is necessary to keep these threads updated. Letting some thank posts or spams wil definitely ruin the purpose of the threads.

For the wiki, I find the "level" grading annoying, honestly.

Added:
There're mainly 2 types of build tutorials:
1. conceptual build tutorials -- mainly about skills, ideas, or the like
2. build-feature tutorials -- how to build a particular build-feature such as a 180 degree stair, a gazebo, etc.
However, normally, a tutorial should have at least one build skill/technique and probably a build-feature.


patul,

What Khaibit showed is a part of the txmt project and she'll do some Deutsch translations for the project. Anyway, as we may know, that's an example to familiarise people who happens unfamiliar with the wiki.. (Updated: oops... sorry patul... I mixed up the different meanings for the tense at the time... )


Khaibit,

Lol, where's the Content Manager? I'm lost again...! :P
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#7 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 9:28 PM
The level grading applies mostly to most other tutorials - it doesn't have to apply to the build modes although you'll have to agree it's often far easier to start with a simple tutorial than a more complicated one. Perhaps we could have custom levels just for the build tutorials?

The advantage of the wiki format in the specific case of the build tutorials and build section is that it is a lot easier to find things and to categorise things. We can make the indexes as simple or as complicated as we want - it's totally customisable.

niol, the content lists are linked in my original post

Thanks for the feedback all!

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Instructor
#8 Old 21st Nov 2006 at 10:03 PM
Ups, Niol, just read your pre-edit post - and you're somehow permanently lost (at least Pix was 'loster' :p) but usually you find yourself again :D

And this is the reason why I was talking about Wiki vs. me instead of offering building comments - you could understand me
So c'mon, off to the link and post your opinion, maybe you can help me out to see what the other 2 of 4 mean!

Delphy, no further comment except 'thanks' means you not only understood me but even agree somehow with the language support possibility? I mean, you didn't disagree... (and I know this wasn't your intention but you asked for feedback...)

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Top Secret Researcher
#9 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 12:24 AM
I'm not familiar with Sims2Wiki yet but being a practical person( and disorganised at the same time but thats another story lol) and thinking like a beginner reader ( i used to read a lot of tutorials and sometimes it took lot of effort to find what i was looking for and to be pleased with what i found that is) i have set up what i think would be a nice set up for building tutorials.If i come up with something new i'll tell you, and i'm sure there are things i missed but that's why we are here to give all our feedback for the best result.



What expansions do you have? (used to hate it when i found a tutorial only to realise in the middel of radign that i need an expansion for a certain cheat or tool so i think it's the first that someone should choose from when searching for a tutorial )

SIMS2 ONLY
UNIVERSITY
NIGHLIFE
OFB
PETS

What level difficulty do you prefer? ( i believe it's necessary to have level difficulty categories, never everyoen started by building an upside dome lol )

Beginner
Intermediate
Advanced
(3 are enough)


What are you looking for?

1a)cheat-free building (many people dont like or cant use cheats, they like it nice and simple)
1b)CFE building
2)split level tutorials
3)basement tutorials
4)garage tutorials
5)roofing tutorials (including simple roofing tutorials but also domes , pagodas and custom roofing that can be made with CFE, )
6)landscaping ( pools , bridges, gazebos, flora arrangement lol etc)
7)decorating ( interior design , home improvement tips etc)
8)creating walls/floors/terrains (well that should be simple enough lol)
9)miscellaneous ( anything that doesnt fit in the other categories)

As for the community tutorials i believe that they should be included in the lists along with the MTS2 tutorials and not have their own section because there are many utterly useful tutorials out there either at the exchange or other sites.



I understand that this may look simple but i think it should be kept simple.Some tutorials fall in many categories .I also understand that categorizing all the tutorials will take quite a while ,i'm willing to help ideas grow and to be combined for a desirable by the community result.

So yeah i volunteer

Thanks for starting this it was about time ;-)

Corvi

You will find my older and newest creations here
Mad Poster
#10 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 6:37 AM
Corvi I agree with you for the tutos outside MTS2.
For a classification, those you propose is not very useful, remind when you used tutos (a long time ago...).
For miself I never READ a tuto, I USE a tuto and I continue to do it when I forgot a point but I know where to go if it is not in my computer. Building is not a thing you can follow point A after point B.
The first question is : why I use a tuto, the response is to do something so I start my classification with the end of yours.
Have a look to the question in this forum it is "I want to do..", after no importance for the level except if you want learn the technical way AND why the game did it like that.
For myself they are 2 different thing, I experiment it with my job, a lot of people can do something quite difficult without understanding the "why it works". Understanding is experiment diferent ways to see what the programe do. You can mention the level but not as a criteria, TS2 building is not technically too hard, there is more artistic and creative needs.

You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Mad Poster
#11 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 7:13 AM
Patul,
sorry again for my improper use of the tense I used in the last post... Just re-read it and realised that... you can fire at me for that... :P


Khaibit,
The slug finally sees why the term "Content Manager"...


All,
For level-grading issue, although I personally dislike it coz it can mislead people to think that building an easier-to-make build feature or an easier-to-understand build technique is prior to building a completely different build-feature or build-technique. So, it may state out such irrelevancy to avoid confusion in the first place. Now, my little psyche is eased as I realised what annoyed me about level-grading system is eased.

I believe combining the input ideas will further plurally enrich the sorting process for more different users. Maybe, there'll be checkbox or else to show the game requirement for the tutorials modularly...
There're a few tutorials like the metranisome's multiple level pool and sunni's pool-lake that are only working in the base game and/or the UNI. This also happens to some terrain tool tutorials, too. They won't fit iinto the generalisation that newer EP will be compatible to all of the older build-features and/or build-tehniques.
I know this can be a little bit confusing to those who happen not to have experiences with certain build-features and/or build-techniques due to the well-held misleading generalisation or impression. But, I can say that Maxis did a bad job on it! I tend to believe the wiki will have as many as references as well as tutorials it can have.
Why to keep several similar build-features or build-technique well linked together? That's because different people (including the slow niol :P) may understand things better with various ways of descriptions. Besides, sometimes, there're some little bits of differences in the strategy, goal or else among these similar tutorials. Some people may benefit from that. Yet, I'm kinda too lazy to remake olde tutorials into a plural sense (niol will be bored to death, yet should we torture him? >:D). If I've the time and motivation, I prefer to make some new tutorials for technques or features not made yet. Nevertheless, I can add extra comment(s) when it's good to do so.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 9:05 AM Last edited by patul : 22nd Nov 2006 at 10:57 AM.
Niol,
I think (say me if I am wrong) the actual purpose is not to re-write tutorials but to make an easier way to find the answers to the problems.
I know some subjects are over explained (ex garage with basement) and other have their complete solution in multiple forum threads (ex rotated sideways).
For the classification you have the basic one, not really numerous in fact (about 15). Look this tuto page : Les tutos de Dom (yes it is in french !) you have all the basics exept perhaps stealth stairs. Then you have the advanced (ex V1ND1CARE) or particular use of some stuff (ex sideways, fake pools...).
The purpose of a wiki is to be enriched by the community.
As I see, our job is first to organize this, then anybody will see where are the lacks and also the needed compilations then contibute if they (you ) want to help the other players.
For the non english tutos, I think it is the community task to link their tuto to a subject, not obligatorily a translation of an existing one. Of course I know some in french, sure khaibit in german...

Organize this first, then complete it, for me, is the better way to avoid an unproductive dispersion. I can use one of my professional grid of task management to do that. But not yet as the project is not really fixed.


You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#13 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 11:03 AM
I agree about the organisation first although often I find that once you start putting content in, the organisation can and will change to adapt to what you are doing.

Essentially I see the Wiki tutorials section having the following:

- Main content / index page, with links and descriptions to the different types of thing you can do
- Each tutorial is marked as either a full one (copied from here) or a community one (hosted elsewhere)
- Each tutorial has an indication of the following: EPs Required. What you will Learn. Main tutorial text. References. Obviously main tutorial text can be replaced by a download link. This structure applies to both community and normal tutorials.
- Tutorials are then categorised: Tutorials by Author X, Building Tutorials, then a further category of the type of tutorial (Landscaping, etc)

I think having the levels system will be useful, but we don't neccesarily have to display it right now. It's something that can be added later on if need be. I would recommend, however, that it be done sooner rather than later.

I can start to build up some pages on the wiki and copy some tutorials across and we can see how it goes.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 4:14 PM
I completely aggree with you Delphy,
I just add :
Quote:
- Each tutorial has an indication of the following: EPs Required. What you will Learn. Main tutorial text. References.

I will insert : What you must know before and a link to the basic tuto.

Because as said Niol each tuto writer have his own way to explain an perhaps he forgot to (re-re)explain a basic. Just to avoid for the reader to back to the menu and re-search (or ask a question here...) for a basic tool.
I try to react as a real new player with an idea searching how realize it technically, and I think that they are the more numerous users of tutos.


You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Instructor
#15 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 5:00 PM Last edited by Khaibit : 24th Nov 2006 at 11:30 AM. Reason: ARRRGH!
So far the Tutorial Level's Description table contains the wrong text/ definiton for building purposes because it lists all content from every section. The tutorials in there should be listed by category (only Build Mode|Body Shop|etc) and especially for building keeping the 5 choices would make sense to me... Niol, Patul, what do you say?

An extra entry in the Content List "Tutorials" (missing :D) which is cross linked to http://www.sims2wiki.info/Tutorials (doesn't exis yet) would make sense, I think. This can be the main page for tutorials, similar struture like the Content List start page. So there you can choose the section, like
-"Build Mode" (linked to http://www.sims2wiki.info/Category:Build_Mode_Tutorials) and further subcategories (decide on your own, clear leading to what *you* are looking for)
- "Object Creation" (Subcategories to choose from (Object Creation, Animation etc)
- "Body Shop" Subcategories to choose from (Clothing, Clothes Meshing, Skin Creation, Skin Meshing, Accesiors, Hair, ?)
so easy acces to each kind of tutorial topic should be guaranted - Delphy's Main Content page :D

Tutorials listed by author is a good start to find some - but, correct me if I'm wrong, actually "writing a tutorial immediately on a wiki page" (further ones) is not what you want?
In there are so far no Copyright rules classified (http://www.sims2wiki.info/Copyrights doesn't exis neither :D) - If tutorial are written immediately there it would be possible to have an author (who wrote the stuff first) listed by name, too (Wiki code ~~~~).
If someone is intrested to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...and_obligations

Additional to all these classifications, what about an additional listing by alphabet, compareable to the Content List's one where the building tutorials can be found by topic, like e.g. "garage", "roofs", "modular stairs", too?

So far the classification you suggested sounds fine for me, start building

Patul, nice tutorials (though I understand the language) so if you agree and a French support exists you would already have something to add/ link

Edit: Patul, what you suggests is required for all kinds of tutorials in there :D

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Retired Moderator
retired moderator DELETED POST
22nd Nov 2006 at 5:33 PM
This message has been deleted by V1ND1CARE.
Mad Poster
#16 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 5:41 PM
Khaibit,
I think the level are useless. Building is not really complex, it need more creativity or esthetic talent than knowledge (exept for some genius). I think, and Niol's idea is near mine, that the builders search only an answer to their technical actual issue.
Have a look to the technical questions of this forum. Very often you will see an answer from Niol, Corvi, Bluetexas or me linking back to a tuto or a previous thread. It is not boring me at all but if an existing tool was able to answer it will be nice and faster for the builder. I think they need not a compilation or a best-of but an answer.

So an author classification may exist but not as a front page Mathew Somebody may wrote the best tutorial for a subject and a mikeinside's be outdated or not very clear. And the user dont search for an author, if he know him he can find it with Google !

For the non english tutos, they need first to have a stucture to receive it and it is a sufficient task ! I linked this page because I think it is a complete one, not because it is in french, french tutos are also easier because french sims players are younger -12 to 15- than in other countries. Dont enter in a french forum you will laugth or cry


You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Retired Moderator
retired moderator
#17 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 5:45 PM
Everyone has contributed wonderful advice on devising tutorial sections and content that I find I have little to add, but here’s my two cents:


1) Tutorials do need to provide the user with the degree of difficulty, or knowledge required, in order to achieve the directive outlined. For example, some users haven’t a clue what the CFE is, what can happen during its use -- much less how to even activate it. A more advance tutorial could easily lose them in its steps. So I heartily agree with Delphy in that it should be incorporated.

2) Corvi did a great job in proposing tutorial sections. My only thought would be to add or break down some areas into the following:
- Water Tutorials [pools (real & fake), waterslides, waterfalls, islands, beachfront, submersed housing, etc.]
- Stair Tutorials (L-stairs, stealth stairs, spiral stairs, etc.)
- Neighborhood Tutorials (creating and modifying regions, installing, etc.)
- Roofing Tutorials into subsections: Simple, Custom (Domes, Atriums, Pagodas, Gazebos, Skylighting etc), and Attics & Dormers
- Garages and Driveways
- Bridges (simple walkways, arched, trussed, suspension and cable stayed, etc.)

3) Perhaps some tutorials should also include a Related Topic or cross-link, for those tutorials that employ a different strategy in accomplishing the same objective, or are relevant to that particular tutorial. Be it the build technique (e.g., CFE) or the goal (e.g., building a double level aquarium).

4) I also believe that the community and resident tutorials should be included together as the Wiki is a Sims 2 knowledge base, and I have always hated having to peruse various sites to see what other tutorials were out there. To have an inclusive database would be a godsend as well as an indispensable asset.

5) Keywords are going to present a bit of trouble because, based on the experience of the user and/or what they are attempting to do, different jargon is bound to be used for the same thing. Some thread titles in the Build forum are examples of this. Perhaps you should enlist someone fluent with building techniques and tools to help create this.


Developing and organizing the build tutorials into a user-friendly database is a terrific move and one that I’m glad to see being done.
Instructor
#18 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 6:47 PM
Patul,
well I myself usually struggle with building techniques (try to build my personal dream house - so far impossible for me because of missing technique solutions, also in here... propably really not supported by the game so time to try Numenor's egg house way :D) - and I think that your creativity can (obviously :/) be limited by your technical skills/solutions available because what's the most creative idea worth it when you don't know how to cheat, tweak and outsmart the default build mode?
And I agree with V1ND1CARE, also her point 1. Listed by difficulty a tutorial doesn't have to explain/ show every step like e.g. how to open the cheat window when it's for intermediate builders, a beginner could really need this explanation.

I think the classification by author makes also for building tutorials sense - because if you could follow easily author a's tutorial (pictures showing the steps, as much as required text) while you struggle with author b's tutorial (just 2 or 3 pictures and lots of text, detailled explanation in there) and you think that author c's tutorials (showing tons of pictures, no text, nevertheless easy to follow) are understandable but looong and you can choose between author a, b and c to read a tutorial for the same topic... wouldn't it be easier to search immediately by author? Usually everyone has his/hers own personal style to explain like *your* personal favourits/way to understand best of explaining methods and listing by author makes it easier to find what helps *you* out.

Take a look at German Simforum, dito The structure (supporting additional languages) is Delphy's task and I know this wasn't the reason for you to link but hey, they are good so why not adding them to the French Wiki when it exists? Pixelhate wanted to do the French translation for the TXMT so it seems to be required anyway :p

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Mad Poster
#19 Old 22nd Nov 2006 at 9:42 PM Last edited by niol : 22nd Nov 2006 at 10:20 PM.
Lol, I guess I'll follow what can be done further or some of what I can do.

Patul's "What you must know before" will help orientate readers in the first place. That's an important section for a tutorial info thread coz it tells readers of what they need to prepare.

I guess, game requirement and compatibility may be mentioned at the same time while an orientation note for their definitions is nice to have. So, confusion on the differences between them can be cleared up.
The former means under what minimum game configurations for such build-feature or build-technique to be made.
The latter means under what maximum game configurations for such build-feature or build-technique to be used (work out).

For 3 instances:
Case 1.
sunni's pool-lake requires the base game to be built. UNI is unnecessarily essential for it to be built or work out but a stable environment for it to be built or work out. Any EP or SP newer than UNI will likely to cause a messy appearance though probably not crashable but instead unusable. That causes incompatibility to any EP or SP newer than UNI.
Case2.
Supposing a feature that takes moveobjects cheat to accomplish at the road side region. most game configuration will work out except the non-patched OFB.
The requirement is never the non-patched OFB, but it's compatible to OFB.
Case 3.
An OFB stage related usage, say tkdjunkie's "OFB Easy U-Shaped Modular Stairs *NO CHEATS*", is supposed to require and be compatible to OFB before any release of newer SP or EP... But after the release of newer SP or EP, is OFB the only one required for that to be made and be used? It's the changing description that may need such flexibility. This's just like tutorial(s) of a diagonal swim-pool. The specificity is probably changeable.


So, sorting categorisations can be in these ways so far based on what have been input:
1. feature-based or goal-based: V1ND1CARE & corvidophile2's type of listings.
2. "concept & technique"-based: those about the cheat, the trick, the exploit, etc...
3. author-based: (self-explanatory)
4. level-grading-based: difficulty-dependence
5. etc?
Let's treat the sorting categorisations as variables for a parameter...! So, different believers and/or seekers may be likely to find something they're familiar with.
Tho I may not like the level-grading, it never means it doesn't worth anything to someone who relies on it, so I think they all worth their presence there.
Surely, different people can help make the types they're familiar with.

It's hard to publish an exact copy of some unsharable tutorials. What can be done is to make private back-up just in case you know what... :p
Mad Poster
#20 Old 23rd Nov 2006 at 9:26 AM
Khaibit, the "what i need" is exactly for this purpose : Not re-explain the basics but provide a link to the needed one.
One can want (need ?) start to build with the V1ND1CARE less than 4 clicks tutorial...why not ? But if you note that he need an advanced CFE knowledge it will be quickly redirected by himself to this subject, and easily with a link -it is the wiki system non?-!

I saw the wiki page, I think it is good now and it is time to experiment it to discuss with a real example not about ideas. We have the same goal but perhaps we have diferent ways to reach or to explain it : 3=1+2, 2+1 or 1+1+1, 3+0 .... 281-278...
Niol, you are the most able to do it.... if you aggree of course !
Choose a MTS2 tuto (not from the people writing here to avoid the personnal feeling) and try to make something with the Wiki spirit. And note the problem (technical or other) you have.

You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#21 Old 23rd Nov 2006 at 12:41 PM
Khaibit,

There is already a main "Tutorials" page, which is at http://www.sims2wiki.info/Sims_2_Modding (I may be revamping this page soon)

The "Build Mode Tutorials" link then takes you to http://www.sims2wiki.info/Tutorials..._Mode_Tutorials which has the different categories.

Build Mode categories then have seperate "Levels" and thier own navbar at the top.

As you can see I already setup yesterday the base pages for each of the categories, and covered a lot of points people have raised here.

For now I'm treating the building tutorials as a sort of content list, for later inclusion of the actual text so I'll be copying some stuff over soon.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#22 Old 23rd Nov 2006 at 5:03 PM
Okay I've spent the best part of the afternoon making categories, pages, and structures, and I've copied all of the links to the MTS2 tutorials onto the wiki (not the specific content)

I've organised stuff into the specific sections but not being a builder it might not be right

The next task is to copy over the community tutorial list which is a much more massive job.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Warrior Gryphon
site owner
Original Poster
#23 Old 24th Nov 2006 at 12:19 AM
Triple post! So sue me :D

Okay I'm now imported all 78 of the Community Tutorials (from the subforum) into the wiki, put them all into categories and linked those into the master pages as well as created mini pages for each creator. 102 pages just for the tutorials.

I'm now going to fall over.

Story books are full of fairy tales, of Kings and Queens, and the bluest skies.
Instructor
#24 Old 24th Nov 2006 at 12:37 AM Last edited by Khaibit : 24th Nov 2006 at 11:32 AM. Reason: *blind*
I don't want to try to sue you but did you know about the "Edit" function?

*doh!* Sims_2_Modding, sure! Didn't think of this site while checking the Wiki for "easy finding" (which still could be improved)... so maybe adding the Tutorial link to the Content List which links to this site wouldn't be wrong?

Anyway, very well done so have a rest


Edit: ( )

Patul, sorry overlooked your post.
Yes, that's it! Linking back and forward is easy in the wiki - but it's even easier when you can crosslink within the Wiki-content instead of linked tutorials

(And it seems like my suggestions aren't required so *off it goes* )

Yes, I am serious though I'm not serious at all. I'm serious about this!
Even the joker can be deadly serious...
Wichtig ist, was hinten raus kommt!
Entscheidend daran ist, wie?
Mad Poster
#25 Old 24th Nov 2006 at 9:30 AM
khaibit,
I understood the wiki spirit, and I know it is a wonderfull tool it need some work to initialize it.
As I saw, I think a "fondamental tool box" will be usefull with first the buildcheats page of the MTS2 FAQ perhaps even as a front page with, later, links to more explanations about these cheat (if needed).
Perhaps an important part is absent : the estethics tutos like the one by boolproped. I think it is one of the more important here, and it need not to be in "miscelaneous".


You know a site allowing re-upload of free build/buy stuff in lots ? Help us to update the list !

* Plus j'échoue plus je m'approche de la réussite
* The more I fail the more I approach the success

(Lao patul MMVI AD)
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