Hey guys,

I just wanted to get a general opinion from other people about the fact that it seems that there were a lot more creators (for clothing at least, especially since that is what I download the most) for the Sims 2 than there are for the Sims 3.

Is it just my perception or do other people see it too? Like amazing creators like fanseelamb seems not to have switched and she is amazing at it. I also feel that there aren't enough clothing meshes.

Any ideas?

It's all relative. As someone who has stuck with TS2, I've seen a lot of talented creators going to the dark side switch to creating for TS3: Plasticbox (*sob*), purplepaws, Beatdoc16, _Shady_, Tantra, Leesester...okay, Lee continues to create for both games *whew*. And then there are the hackers like Pescado and Inge. Then there are creators who have just drifted away from the franchise entirely. I'm grateful people like Mog and Fansee and Fakepeeps and Buggybooz and Mootilda still enjoy creating for TS2.

I suspect creating clothing might actually be a little less interesting in TS3. After all, all you can really create is a new mesh or stencil with appropriate channels. There are some very good clothes out there (I tend to download TS2 conversions), but after a while, a jacket is a jacket and short skirt is a short skirt. It's how the player patterns it that makes the difference.

As a creator for TS3 and TS2 I think I might be allowed to add my "bit".

TS3 is a totally different game in terms of creating, especially for clothes. Making a new clothes mesh is actually a bit of a nightmare - with adult clothes, for example, to get it all to work correctly, you dont make 1 mesh and a fat/pregnant morph - you make one mesh and 5 extra morphs....So you slog away making the object/clothing whatever - and then EA release a new patch - which BREAKS the item/clothing whatever. Plod back to item - remake - republish - OH a new patch - happy day......rinse repeat. Even if the item does not break, you still need to check it on EVERY PATCH.

This can make creating for TS3 seem like a bit of a chore - especially as I see more and more comments on the lines of "Wah - why don't you fix it" or "can I have one shaped like a banana, I dont like apples" etc etc. Then a creator wants to add a small BHAV - oh, I see, must go learn a new programming language...PLOD....

TS2 however is FUN to create for - the games are NOT gonna get updated, the tools are stable and very comprehensive, and there is a wealth of information out there - for TS2 the limit is your imagination. For TS3 - we still seem to be at the mercy of the whims of EA.

So yeah, I create for both, but really, as far as TS3 is concerned, my heart just isn't in it.

Yeah I had more fun modding Sims2 than Sims3. Only my hatred for the actual Sims2 game is keeping me focussed on Sims3. Though, I *could* have gone right back to Sims1, I suppose...

Modding TS3 is a real pain in the ass what with all the LOD bullshit that we didn't have to worry about in TS2. And even when you get it looking fairly nice, the game still pixellates it all to hell. Kinda hard to make a bunch of pretty things for pixel dollies, when they're really just pixel pudding. The look of the game has grown on me somewhat but I still hate the lighting. And I don't really see the point at spending hours or days on an outfit when you can just CASt something close enough for whatever sim. Yeah, there's some basic styles that are nice that nobody's really done, but meh, the basic tee shirt is good enough, just change the colour, right?

It might be because in TS2 recolors actually counted for something. In TS3, everyone recolors stuff themselves with CAST, and the only 'exciting' clothing has to be a new mesh.. or it's just a duplicate with nicer textures.

I was playing around with meshing recently and.. became overwhelmed quickly. It seemed like an easy enough thing I was trying to do.. and if it was prettymuch ANY medium but a 3-d mesh, I could have finished it in minutes. But I just flailed instead since I didn't really know what I was doing. I had the DDS files edited properly, but remnants from the part I was trying to remove kept popping up in TSRW. </end rant>

I'm sure more people will migrate over eventually, or new people will pop up.

Well, I have to admit that meshing and general creating for TS2 gave me a head start on TS3. Once I worked out where stuff was hiding, I was pretty quick at making the item.

We do have a LOT of new creators who are extremely talented - Lisen, Hekate, etc etc and some old ones who are GREAT at TS3 - Cmomoney, Huge Lunatic and some creators who never really got to grips with TS2 but are shining stars at TS3 (does not mention names to prevent blushes of said creators).

To me, its same old, same old. Just a different game and more patches.

I started trying to learn to create for the Sims 3: so far, it feels easier than learning for the Sims 2, especially since I don't have to worry about recolors: it also makes it easier to download as a player since I don't have to worry about recolors and the recolors cluttering up my game box.

But it's much harder than it looks, and while I've begun to understand the basics of modding for the Sims 3, the Sims 2 is far out of my league, it feels.

The Sims 3 really has only been out for a little over a year, and from what I've gathered from the veterans here, modding for the Sims 2 didn't start out strong, either. It's had many years under its belt and those years come with thousands upon thousands of download-able content. The Sims 3 doesn't have that presence because it just hasn't been long enough.

I see your point Lifeslover. Indeed, TS3 is amazingly advanced compared to where TS2 was at the same age - mainly because in SOME ways they are not really that different. Meshes are still meshes and textures are still textures. They are just called different things.

LOD = the object and its shadows as seen outside (in TS2 the outside shadows were generated automatically)
Multiplier = the shadows from the texture - in grayscale
Specular = the highlights and shine from the texture - in grayscale
Mask = the areas of colour - red, green and blue - each primary colour works like a subset in TS2

Because the games work differently - the meshes on body stuff is a good example, (no sliders in TS2 CAS) then we have to learn how to make items that work in game. Its hard. Especially when you can make pretty things for another game in like 5 mins flat ....

Also, TS3 uses different tools to make different things. The tool we would need to make new trees costs more than a small car in RL. The rig file (which determines the joints) can now be edited, but its not easy. This is why most custom cars are the same size or the creator chose for the wheels not to turn. Animations are moving along too, but I feel my brain explode at these "script" things. So its hard to turn away from SimPE and all it offers to go join the pioneers.

The tools are there - thanks to Wes and Inge and Peter and the CTU team - even TSR with TSRW - bloatware, but nice to use.

I think that we WILL see more creators, and more advanced modding - but TS2 will always be my fave. You never forget your first love

And of course, for me that is TS1

Creatures and Creatures 2. :lovestruc

Rollercoaster Tycoon 2

I can't really talk, though; I have never made a mesh for any game. I'd probably brave it.. if I got a tonne of tuition and a Skype explanation when stuff went wrong [because with me... stuff ALWAYS goes wrong!] I know I'm missing out.. just it looks overly labouring and scary to start.

Ts3 is more work, it's as simple as that, we don't have the need for recolors anymore which basically discards 70% of what stuff in TS2 was, people would pick an easy project like recoloring a couch.

Also things are harder like lods and morphs for clothing

Kind of surprised that nobody has mentioned it (and I totally agree that creating for TS3--as well as installing content and, oh, heck, practically everything about TS3, really--is a huge pain in the butt by comparison, and that the game itself just isn't as visually appealing) but: no Bodyshop. It was actually released for TS2 before the game itself, if I am remembering right, and was installed by default with every expansion. And the learning curve was not exactly steep compared to some of the tools we have for TS3 now. No Homecrafter either, for that matter, though that one you actually had to go and download.

As far as CAS content goes, I'm actually somewhat relieved that there isn't as much to wade through on a daily basis, and the signal-to-noise ratio (to put it diplomatically) seems to have improved quite a bit this time around.

The perception that there is more for TS2 is largely an illusion.

Say, someone makes a new shirt. In TS2 one did not worry about morphs. Instead, you had different body types -- things like superhero, beauty queen, princess, fashion model and so on and so on. And then every file had its own recolor. So, your new shirt might have 20 files -- a file for each body type, and a file for each recolor. In TS3, there is one file instead of 20. So, at first glance, it might appear that TS2 has 20 times as many files, but it's only because everything in TS3 is contained in one file.

As far as additional meshes, exactly what meshes do you want that you think are missing? I actually think there are quite a few meshes already out there. A lot of time, people think that something which is really a texturing project is a meshing project, and they overcomplicate things for themselves.

The big problem with a lot of creation in TS3 is that the tools are not particularly well understood. The documentation for a lot of the tools ranges from non-existant to minimal. Tutorials help one get started, but provide no guidance for more complex projects. Cruising forums for guidance is hit and miss, and can be a colossal waste of time. So people are learning by trial and error.

But the real question is: Exactly what do you want which currently is not available?

No!!!!!

Hardly. Just check the clothing downloads for TS2 vs. TS3. There are about 14000 clothing downloads for TS2 on MTS. If I narrow that down to just males, I still have 3000. TS3, on the other hand, has just 500 clothing downloads, of which just 180 are for males. If I want something nice for my Sims 2 guys to wear, there's plenty to choose from. However, for my TS3 puddings, there is barely anything. Sure, there is the fact that we can do recolors in game, but the clothes themselves are pretty bad- it's certainly possible for CC makers to top what EAxis gave us.

What tjstreak was saying, potatoehead, is that because most files for the TS2 were just recolors, it makes it seem like we had a lot more downloads than we really did. To some extent, that's true. For one piece of clothing, you could have anywhere from 5 to 20 different recolors and forget sofa options. I found that while I was still playing TS2, I had well over 3,000 different pieces of CC about which three quarters of it were just plain recolors, and forget Warlokk's bodyshapes and the clothing files for those: those were in a separate sub-folder all of their own that I didn't even bother recounting.

Perhaps recoloring and meshing was easier for TS2 but because you don't have to recolor for TS3, that leaves out a whole lot of downloads because recoloring was really the majority of the downloads, at least for clothing.

I say give it time or alternatively try your own hand at creating. I certainly see less clothes for TS3 now but I see a great enough diversity of clothes that it doesn't feel lacking to me at all. Especially considering I can recolor and pattern the things we do have in game. In fact, too much CAS items can slow the game down considerably. I'd rather run the game at high settings than have 50 different shirts that look almost exactly the same except for color.

TS2 has been out for nearly 5 years while TS3 has been out for like 1.5, when you consider how many recolors and similar style stuff there is it makes it evener. 180/500 is really good actually! for Ts2 only 21% of the clothing is male but for TS3 it's 36%

Making clothes look good in Ts3 is harder, photoskinning doesn't work as well/look as good in TS3

Did you read my post?

When you take out the recolors and different body types, how many are there?

And you did not answer my question: Specifically, what items were available in TS2 that you are missing in TS3?

To be quite honest, this thread and a lot of posts in it just strike me as senseless whining. There are some Sims 2 players who seem to be very unhappy that there are other people playing and enjoying the Sims 3. The seem to be having a very hard time coming to grips with the fact that the Sims 2 is a dead game and that it will not be springing back to life.

So almost on a daily basis we get these posts about how much better Sims 2 is than Sims 3, as if the posters believe that most of the people who have switched to Sims 3 are going to switch back again, and that EA is going to discontinue Sims 3 and go back to producing for the Sims 2. The people making these posts apparently live on a different planet than the rest of us.

I'm kind of surprised by the question. My downloads folder go to 2 gigs before I purged it and this game has only been out for a year and change. I was downloading for TS2 before the game even came out thanks to Bodyshop and when I finally stopped playing, my folder was slightly under 5gigs. My personally view is that TS3 is far and away ahead of TS2 in community content. I think maybe more so for objects than for clothing because as of others have said, it's harder to master and also there's no need for recolors.

I also find myself being a lot more careful with TS3 content because there are so many ways the creators can mess it up. (That's not supposed to sound as harsh as it reads.) That oftentimes, I play it in my game, find there's a problem with it and then have to take it our. Or it's a day that ends with "-y" which means EA released a new patch and so it no longer works.

And there are some Sims 3 players who seem equally unhappy that there are still other people playing and enjoying The Sims 2. It's a dead game in the sense that EA will not be putting out any further official content for it, sure. That doesn't mean nobody plays it, studies it or makes new custom content for it anymore. That will probably continue for a long time yet; there are, after all, still a few lonely outposts of TS1 fandom soldiering on out there in the wilderness.

Personally, I am not expecting EA or those who are happy with TS3 to switch back again. I just don't plan to jump on TS3 bandwagon while it still looks so comparatively sucky. Maybe when a few more EP's are out and the modding tools have matured a bit more. (I suppose it's too much to ask that EA would also get over their patch-happy phase and just release ONE per expansion, as they used to do, but one can always hope.)

Unlike TS3, TS2 wasn't (to my knowledge, God knows it's been a long time) a game with online features. So any patches basically had to be delivered in the next expansion pack.

...

At least I think that's why there seem to be so many more patches.
Correct me if I'm wrong... :/

Well, I missed the whining part......I don't think anyone had expressed the hope that TS2 will spring back to life - not that all of us consider it dead. It may be dead from your point of view - but thats ok, we are all allowed to have one.



Um wha? I missed those posts in this thread TOO. This thread was about why there are less creators for TS3 - I read your post and agree that once you level the playing field, then really there are a lot of downloads for TS3. Not that the number of downloads was the topic. However, my posts were more from a creators standpoint of why there are less creators for TS3. Or, to go back to the OP, why maybe some creators have not switched over to TS2. As I already said - many have, some keep a foot in both camps, and some people don't want to switch.