Mr. Monster, the reason for the huge bathrooms is gameplay. Sims congregate in the bathroom no matter how small or large it is, and in the small, realistic ones, the person who came in first gets trapped behind the two who interrupted him, who in turn have been trapped by the guy coming in behind them, and who give up on using the toilet and stand there talking or playing Red Hands. In University, people also sit down where ever they get bored and start doing assignments; if this is in the bathroom, you've got a problem! Also, if you plan on breeding the sims or keeping a pat, a realistically-sized bathroom has no room for a potty chair during the toddler phase or a litter tray for the cat. The potty chair needs two empty squares in front of it, so there's room to put the kid on and stand back to wait for him. The nicest maxis shower, the corner one, also needs a little extra space to be accessible.

For these reasons, most of my bathrooms have two doors, room for sims to maneuver around each other to reach one when the other is blocked, and an empty square next to the toilet for the potty or litter box, with at least two empty squares in front of that. Three by four is the minimum size I can efficiently build a full bath for play. Similar considerations drive configuration and size of hallways, which I try to avoid entirely.

I sometimes drive myself crazy trying to build a "wet wall" with all the plumbing on it; sometimes I can do it, and sometimes I can't without losing whatever concept is driving the house. Some real house plans work well in the game; some are impossible.

I'm with wookymonster on the dead space issue, although the bathrooms in AS' house are not actually that large. But she did say she was intending to use it for multi-generational, so it makes sense that there's a lot of empty upstairs space. The downstairs could easily be reconfigured to add another bedroom and an extra bath, though. Unless you like to decorate, adult bedrooms really don't need to be any larger than 5x4, and that's only if you want a wardrobe in every room. (which is also unnecessary for gameplay; it's just a realism issue.)

@Peni: many people play using JM Pescado's game fixes, which resolve a lot of those annoyances. 2x4 should be sufficient for 2 doors and a full bath with tub/shower, sink, toilet and an extra item. (And it's also not *necessary* to keep the potty chair in the bathroom; that's just an aesthetic preference. You only need it for a few days unless you have an extended toddler lifespan hack. It seems silly to plan your layout around temporary items.)

Many people may use those fixes, but a lot of people don't, including, presumably, the people making downloadable houses with huge bathrooms.

Keeping the potty chair in the bathroom is more efficient as well as more aesthetic, as the toilet's right there and the parent can empty the potty as soon as the kid moves away from it, and then wash his/her hands (and scoop up the kid for a bath if his hygiene score has gotten low). All this saves enough time in-game to be well worth a few extra squares in the room for many of us.

In large families, the potty isn't even a temporary item! Nor is the litter box.

When I build a house, especially a multi-generational house, I keep in mind that someone could have twins. And if they're boy/girl, I like for them to have separate bedrooms.

That activity table (comes with FreeTime) takes up space. You put it against a wall, and the toddler/child will complain they can't get to it.

I do like that layout plan for the second floor--in fact, I did something similar when I rebuilt the Roths' house! Put two 3X3 bathrooms together, sandwiched between two bedrooms that were 6 tiles in length.


I also like to have a separate room for pets, so that the piano or TV won't wake them up.

True. That is actually why I don't like keeping the potty in the bathroom--kids end up playing in the toilet all the time. I usually keep the potty seat in the nursery so I can get the kids distracted while the parent cleans up. And then there are no route fails in the bathroom, either.

Pets makes sense. I've never played that EP.

Since Ma is emptying the potty into the toilet immediately, if I have everything placed correctly he can't get at the toilet to play in it and (if he's not going to have a bath right away) I can always tell him to go somewhere else, or dance to the stereo, or otherwise distract him. The only time my toddlers ever play in the toilet is when they get bored and make their own way in there because I don't have toys distributed around the house well enough and/or Mommy and Daddy are distracted or on a different floor and can't be asked for attention.

A quick perusal of this thread should demonstrate that few houses suit the playstyles of everyone who could possibly download them. A lot of the reasons for not downloading them - too bare, too cluttered, and so on - really amount to "I'd have to tweak them anyway so I'd just as soon build my own." If I ever make a successful house download I expect to treat it like I do the Maxis premades, as a shell that will require changes to suit my and the intended families purposes, but will still be faster to implement than a scratch-built house.

I've noticed that a lot of the houses on the game lots are variations on standard floor plans. The two-bedroom residences at Sim State University use the same basic layout as the Tidy Tudor - two main rooms up and two down with a central staircase - but is a lot more practical for college roommates than the Tudor is for adult sims, because they shifted the bathrooms and opened up the area in front of the stairs, and because the University students will never have to raise children in it. The single-bedroom Sim State residence is a tweaked European Town Home. And so on. It can be fun taking the Simulated Housing Company's base tract house plans and seeing how individual you can make each one.

For me, there's a difference between houses I build to play (and sometimes share) and houses I build just to build. The former are built for playability as I play. Therefore, they tend to be small, with small rooms. Huge bathrooms don't bother me, for playing reasons, because Sims WILL tend to get trapped in a small one, plus it's often where I put the litterbox if the family has a cat/cats. (But generally I still personally stick to 2x3 bathrooms with a tub/shower unless I'm in the mood to give someone a really nice master bath.) No, the pet peeve for me is gigantic kitchens, especially if the house has a separate dining area. There's no need for it. Geez, I once played a polygamist commune with three wives and god-knows-how-many kids at a time (I think there were 15 kids on the lot at one point, plus the four adults, and that's with moving kids out shortly after they turned teen) and they had two fridges and two stoves so that two people could cook at once, and they managed just fine with a 6x6 kitchen (since they had a nice, big dining room, of course). So...yeah. Generally, I build small houses with small rooms because I don't give my Sims any "extras" that take up floor space. (I'm OK with art on the walls and such.) They don't get skilling objects (aside from learning by experience and the occasional piano I hand out, they go to community lots to skill) or anything that takes up floor space but that doesn't serve a practical purpose. This is partly because I suck at decorating, but also because, for me, the house is meant to played, not to be pretty. I don't really care much about the Environment score, personally. Especially since I never do the private school thing, anyway, which I think is the only time that Environment actually matters.

Being pretty and "realistic" (and therefore often less practical for playing purposes) is what the other kind of house is for, the ones that I build just to build, usually to see if I can. For instance, these are the ones where I'll try to build something that, if it were real, it would be 8000 square feet in size. And if I tried to play it, it would choke the hell out of my computer once I added Sims to it. I also try to be "real" in that I try to keep plumbed areas together and things like that. I am, after all, a frustrated architect. But I've learned that "realistic" does not necessarily mean useful for actual game-playing purposes, so the two are entirely separate things to me. For playing purposes, big bathrooms can be convenient, if not realistic. (And, for me, gigantic bedrooms aren't really necessary for playing, although I like big bedrooms in real life) But I still think a gigantic kitchen is just not necessary, all around. (Except in real life, of course. I'd sooner die than give up my precious plumbed work island! :lol )

I agree with the bathroom issues mentioned above. In the UK it's normal to have one or maybe two bathrooms in a family house and they're called the smallest room in the house for a reason. One thing that puts me off downloading other people's lots is the number of bathrooms some people shove in and the size, especially when every bedroom seems to have an ensuite - that's relatively uncommon here (though not unknown). I do wonder about Americans and bathrooms sometimes! Though I guess IRL you are just like us with one or two.

There are a couple of bathroom hacks which are essential for me - there is 2Jeffs fix for the toddler and the loo - there's actually an error in the code there. The toddler is not supposed to play in the loo so much, only when it's uphappy but Maxis made a mistake in the coding and it doesn't work properly with the toddler beelining for the loo if left unoccupied. I do use Pescado's Bathroom Uses You which throws out any sim not actually using the bathroom. This is a godsend to be frank and prevents the piling up issues I see reported so much though some of the little b****** still manage to have their babies in there if I allow them to give birth at home. This leads to yo-yo baby-admiring as BUY throws out sims and they come running back in immediately to admire the new baby.

And apropos of that, as far as I'm concerned, this is one of the great mysteries of the game - why DO they have the babies in the bathroom so often? WHY dammit?

*laughs* Yeah, I think people create Sim houses with lots of bathrooms in order to avoid the "let's all pile in at the same time!" syndrome. (It's like that trick where you try to see how many people you can stuff into a VW Bug. ) I myself have a fairly typically-sized upper-middle expensive American house. I have 3 bedrooms, plus a loft. It came with 2.5 bathrooms, a (ensuite) master, a full family bath shared by the secondary bedrooms, and a guest half-bath off the kitchen. We added a full bathroom to the loft, since it was converted into the Teenage-Boys-Becoming-Men Cave. Us girls wanted them the hell out of our bathrooms. Because they're pigs who spray pee all over the place and think that they don't need to clean it up. *laughs*

As for me, my Sims have a habit of having their babies by the mailbox. This is because I'm mean and make preggo Sims go to work (YAY for "Walk to Work!") even if they're due to give birth in an hour. So, when they come back from work they're past their "due time," and hence the kid squirts out by the mailbox. But before I started doing that...Yeah, the bathroom did often become the birthing center. It also doubles as the wedding chapel.

It must be something to do with your timing. I haven't had but one baby born in the bathroom, because Ma was on her way to shower. Usually they're in bed and hop out to give birth while hubby panicks. Since hygiene and bladder go down so fast there's probably an increased chance of being in the bathroom during pregnancy, therefore increasing the statistical likelihood of the birth happening there; but I'd think the kitchen was about as likely, statistically.

As far as I can tell, the birth is a set number of sim hours after the conception, and therefore mine tend to be born at night or in the wee hours of the morning, since most of my sims have day jobs and date their SOs in the evening. The most memorable birth location for me was in the back yard next to the fishing hole, where Ma Hawkins produced her twins at about 3AM. I had positioned her carelessly when she went out to fish, with the result that she laid Twin #1 down right next to the water, in a location cut off from anybody else, and her husband and older children had to run right around the pond to holler and rejoice; she then had to hand Twin #2 to her husband because she was the only one in position to pick up #1.

Just like women don't need to clean up their lingere, pantyhose, used feminine hygene products, makeup, brushes, hairdryer, curling iron, etc. Not to mention the layers of hairspray all over everything. My sisters' bathrooms were much more "swampy" than mine.

Neener, neener! :P

Hee hee... That's true! Sex-separated bathrooms are just a good idea all around, IMO. It keeps the peace, really. When I was married, I basically kicked my husband out of the master because he was a disgusting slob. Plus, he never used the whirlpool tub, anyway. Off to the hall bath with ye!

I guess it's yet another way that Sims have it better than us. Sim men don't spray pee all over the toilet...and the floor...and in the shower. (I pity the woman who marries my housemate's son. *shudder*) and Sim women don't leave grooming detritus and menstrual leftovers all over the place.

=/. I am very fussy with cleanliness lol... I really hate it when males do that and I would never even think of leaving female items all over the place.

But yeah, sims really do have it better. lol

Depending on the house's decor, I might have a small kitchen and separate dining room, or, with the Country theme, I'll have a large eat-in kitchen. I like having plenty of counter space.

I like having space, period. LOL

Having potties in the bathrooms doesn't really work for me, as lots of times a toddler wants to use the potty, but won't go in because someone else is using the bathroom. Keeping the potty in the nursery works out best for me.

I also like decent-sized bedrooms. Yeah, a 4X5 is big enough for a couple, but it makes me a bit claustrophobic. I like 6X6 or 5X6.

For me, I like to do a little bit of downloading and building. My building skills used to suck hardcore, but I like to think that I'm slowly starting to improve. (Whether this is true or not...) I do tend to prefer smaller homes so I've been studying plasticbox's tutorials and Newbie Road homes, and then trying to recreate a similar style with a few more bedrooms. Because of course, once I move a family into that cute and perfect starter home, my female is pregnant by the end of the day. It's a process for me lol.

I prefer my homes, whether they are downloaded or built, to be realistic but also playable. I like an easy layout that allows my Sims to get around efficiently, but unless they are very wealthy, I like the homes to be on the smaller side. Though it is nice having a home that has 1 bathroom for every Sim, I hate actually doing that because, really, how many houses come with 6 master bedrooms? So if I were to download houses, I keep those things in mind. Occasionally, I will find a gorgeous house that has a layout that I hate but I download it anyway and then fiddle with the inside layout until it suits me better. Fortunately I don't have any of the Stuff packs, which prevents me from going to Lot Downloading Madness.

Trust and believe some of it is warranted by sims(EAMaxis programming) stupidity.

I prefer to build my own just because I'm picky. There's some really nice houses but I'm never satisfied. Even with my own houses I'm always changing and adding things, and that's easier to do that with a house I built myself.

If you are finding it easier and more pleasant to build houses that you enjoy playing in than you did when you started, then you're improving. There is no objective standard of skill against which to measure yourself. Since this is a solitary game, the only measure of your success is What Works for You.

The point of a thread like this is for people to share what does and doesn't work for them, so that we can all broaden the experience base we're learning from. As long as we're learning, we're enjoying. It's the nature of the game. As T.H. White remarked, in The Once and Future King, "when you reach perfection, you die." So I trust nobody here is going to be perfect any time soon.

Hi I prefer to build my own houses but download other peoples Apartments.I have downloaded other peoples houses in the past because they looked really good however when installed have found them to be a lot smaller than my own.I also prefer one level in houses the same with apartments,I just can,t be doing with different levels & stairs.

Well I can say I love to build homes for myself and other members as well, I do have some "Top Picks" homes I build on the Mod that are on this site. But I also really enjoy downloading others creators homes as well if I like them. I will build my own home sometime if I can not find what I am looking for here on this site. But I really love to build homes for myself as well as for other members who may like to download them here on Mod The Sims.

The houses I usually like and want to download also usually use one or more EP's that I don't have. The disadvantage to being a Mac user I suppose as I have everything I can possible get but alas no FT or AL. So I end up building my own. While I've certainly improved in building skills I was never destined to be an architect. A point that is driven home to me everytime I do look at some of the options available for download.

I like downloading houses if I really really like one or if I'm lacking creativity. But usually I'll end up spending more or less about an hour just building a house. I think I'm pretty good at it, even though it's one of my least favorite things about playing the game. I feel good knowing my simmies have a house made just for them :D

Build my own. But I do sometimes download houses to modify. I modify them so much though that they look totally different.

Some premade houses have such big living rooms and such wide hallways, I find I can ADD rooms!

I prefer to make them, although I typically end up using Maxis made houses.

I'm not taking anything away from the community who makes the houses, but I've downloaded many and haven't really used any of them. I get into them and they are built in ways that I don't really care for, are "gilded" (look awesome on the outside but aren't really that great when in game), and/or aren't really practical for playing in.

I'm not the best house/community lot creator myself, but it makes it so much more satisfying when I make them.