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#26 Old 2nd Jan 2013 at 2:36 PM
I dropped the project for the Christmas holidays. Now that we're into the new year, I suppose that I should try again. I'm still not very happy with the way that it's working, although I believe that the logic is basically correct.

I suspect that the whole thing needs a re-think. Reimbursing someone for their lost lot value seems quite reasonable, but the actual behavior just seems unexpected. It might be better if people could not modify the lot (build / buy) while the for-sale sign was on the lot.

Even if you don't take my reimbursement logic, I would suggest that you modify when the stay-logic occurs. As it is, you only have to choose the category from the catalog for the lot to lose value. I suppose that's why Pescado put the magic wand into its own collection... people won't accidentally depreciate the lot when they are looking for something else.
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#27 Old 2nd Jan 2013 at 6:45 PM
No, I think I'm on board with the reimbursement. We could think of it like the seller is paying out closing costs or something. That happens, right? Anyways, no rush on this at all, I just wanted to get you the mesh and new texture in case you were moving faster on it that I was.
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#28 Old 3rd Jan 2013 at 3:41 AM
Quatchi just had a thought that looks interesting. (He's a great sounding board.)

I wonder whether we could add the value of all of the stayed objects to the price of the for-sale sign? That way, the total value of the lot should remain constant. The main problem is that the value of all stayed objects may be larger than the highest possible price of an object. In that case, it may make sense to make a series of invisible moveable objects which will carry the additional price.

This avoids the pitfalls of the current method, but should still ensure that the family gets the full value for the lot.
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#29 Old 3rd Jan 2013 at 3:43 AM
Genius

From working with changing car pricing, I think the most expensive you can make an object is $32000, so if we are just talking the fixtures and built-ins we will be hard pressed to get to that limit, but doing a stay-everything will need another method.
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#30 Old 3rd Jan 2013 at 4:23 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 4th Jan 2013 at 8:47 PM.
Makes me wonder why we didn't come up with that idea earlier...

Anyway, we should be sure to thank him in the download thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaenoh
From working with changing car pricing, I think the most expensive you can make an object is $32000, so if we are just talking the fixtures and built-ins we will be hard pressed to get to that limit, but doing a stay-everything will need another method.
I must be lucky. My test lot ended up with fixtures costing $30,250... just under the wire. And I wasn't even using the most expensive fixtures!

So far, this is looking really good. My sim ended up with exactly the right amount of money on move-out and the lot ended up with the right furnishings.

I'm going to look into the delete code next. Then I'll look into fixture values > 0x7FFF.
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#31 Old 4th Jan 2013 at 8:46 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 5th Jan 2013 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Add numbers for easier identification
I updated the mesh and texture, but it doesn't look quite right. Could you take a look at it, please?

This contains the logic for objects with a total value <= $32,767. Play with it a bit and let me know what you think.

Notes:

1) The moveable -> stayable code is executed each time that you go into live mode. This should handle both new objects and deleted objects. However, it won't handle objects like gifts, or those which are placed into a sim's inventory... at least until the user goes into build mode, then back into live mode. At this time, we don't have a strategy for those kinds of objects.

2) For some reason, deleted objects aren't handled the first time that you go into live mode. I found that I had to go live, build, live to get the correct lot valuation after deleting a stayable object. I'm still looking into this problem. [Fixed with next version]

3) The sign will show a sale value of the total value of all stayable objects on the lot. However, if you sell the sign, you'll only get $15. We'll need to warn the user about this, unless we hide the objects value in hidden objects instead. Since we'll want that logic for object values > $32,767 anyway, I think that's the right long-term solution.

4) For now, I've disabled depreciation on the sign. It's just too confusing, at least while I'm using the sign to store the object values. If we decide to hide the object values in hidden objects, then we can reenable depreciation.

5) I haven't done anything to handle multiple signs on a lot. We should probably make the first sign the one that contains the object values, and leave the rest as decorative only. We should also check whether the sign is the last one on the lot before running the stayable -> moveable logic. As it is now, they will probably fight each other. [Fixed with next version]

6) When the family moves out, the lot will have a value which is too low. That's because objects are not deleted by the game during move-out, but are deleted when the lot is entered for the first time. Once the lot is edited, the sign will be deleted and the lot value will be restored.
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#32 Old 4th Jan 2013 at 11:46 PM
I've change the mesh (and lowered the polys by half) and darkened the texture a slight big, moved the sign over in the tile while retaining any animations we may like to use. I unticked all the boxes for View, Kick, and Cry, because they all ended in the sign being kicked over and looking dumb. I also moved the sign to Gen Misc because it's not a decoration, and that's where a lot of 'cheat tools' end up. I've also made the darn thing recolorable with 2 subsets - the post and the sign, cuz people like that. This is also the first time I've been able to overcome my constant 'not recolorable' problem - yay for personal victory.

I did not see a sale value, is that debug only? I agree with disabling depreciation, it's silly for a little sign anyways. I hadn't even thought about multiple signs on a lot. I can't think of why anyone would do that, but it's good to be prepared for it. I'm not sure what you mean about the last point but it doesn't sound good.
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#33 Old 5th Jan 2013 at 2:29 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 5th Jan 2013 at 6:30 PM.
3) By "sale value", I meant: if I pick up the sign on my lot, it shows a value of $30,000+. However, if I delete the sign, I don't get an additional $30,000; I just get my $15 back. Just try picking up and deleting the sign and you'll see what I mean.

6) The last point (about the lot value) is similar to the problem that we see with the Stay-Things Shrub: the lot value after moveout doesn't include the cost of the stayable items. However, unlike the Stay-Things Shrub, the lot value will fix itself if you just edit and save the lot. This is a function of when the game actually gets around to deleting the objects on a lot. The game doesn't delete the furnishings as soon as the family moves out. Instead, it sets a flag. The next time that you enter the lot (whether it's to edit the lot or to move another family in), the game notices the flag and deletes all the furniture. At that time, the for-sale sign will be deleted and the lot value will be restored.

For my example lot, the lot value is $30000 after moveout and $60000 when I edit the lot.

The only other option would be to hook in to the move-out code somehow and reset the lot value at that time.

[Update:] The mesh still doesn't look right to me; the for sale sign is half the height that it used to be.
Screenshots
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#34 Old 5th Jan 2013 at 9:35 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 5th Jan 2013 at 10:30 PM.
I'm seeing something which is confusing and I wonder whether anyone can help?

When an object on the lot is deleted in buy mode, the object is still found by the Set To Next command. I've checked and "include disabled objects" is not checked in the Set To Next command. If I go into Live mode, then back into Buy mode, the object has (finally) disappeared from the object list.

Is there some way to ensure that my Set to Next does not get deleted objects? Is there a way to tell the game to delete all pending objects before proceeding? Is there some way to determine whether an object has been deleted, but has not yet been removed from the list of objects?

[Update:] I have solved the problem by ignoring all objects whose room < 0. Is there any reason why this would be a bad solution to my problem? Is there a better solution?
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#35 Old 5th Jan 2013 at 9:57 PM
Nope, I made its shorter to infringe less on the original mesh. All the House for Sale signs I've ever seen are never taller than your waist. I can make it taller again if you don't think it looks good.
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#36 Old 5th Jan 2013 at 10:34 PM
I've never seen a for-sale sign that was that short in real life. Sounds like this may vary by where you live. I'm fine with this height, if you like it this way.

I sort of miss the interactions. I was looking forward to seeing my sims cry when looking at the sign. I also thought that sims who didn't like someone in your family might come by and cheer when they saw the sign.
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#37 Old 6th Jan 2013 at 2:08 AM
I'll make it a tad taller, and I only disabled the interactions, I didn't remove them. We need to stop the 'kick it all the way over' part, but I do want the crying and the small kicking in it. Cheering sounds cool too.
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#38 Old 6th Jan 2013 at 5:27 AM
Here is a reference image of typical north american realestate for sale signs. Note the size of the person mowing the lawn relative to all the signs. Signs typically stand shoulder height or taller.
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#39 Old 8th Jan 2013 at 10:55 PM Last edited by Mootilda : 10th Jan 2013 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Reorder list
OK, I've changed the sign so that values > $32K can be handled by hidden objects on the lot. As many objects as necessary will be spawned.

Notes (continued from post #31):

1) No change. Still doesn't handle gifts and inventories until user chooses Build or Buy then Live mode.

2) Resolved. Deleted objects are handled as soon as Live mode is entered.

3) Resolved. Hidden objects now hold the entire stayable objects value.

4) Partially resolved. Since we are no longer using the visible signs to store the stayable objects value, we should be able to reenable depreciation on the visible signs only.

5) Resolved. Multiple signs are now handled correctly. The first sign to be placed will make the objects stayable. The last sign to be deleted will make the objects moveable. There is no longer a duplication of effort or values. Signs can be deleted in any order.

6) No Change. I can't think of any way to get the sign deleted after the sims move out, other than to edit the lot.

Things that still need to be done:

7) Allow people to select categories, including All.

8) If a hidden sign finds that there is no sign visible on the lot, then make all objects moveable again and delete all hidden values. This is an unlikely occurrence, but should be included for completeness sake.

9) Ensure that people can't use the slot for anything except for the hidden objects which hold the stayable objects value. [Will be in next version]

10) Reenable interactions. Add crying and cheering interactions. [Phaenoh]

11) Given Quatchi's pictures, I think that it might be nice to make the sign a bit taller (Although I just can't believe how tall those real-life signs are... larger than a mailbox? That seems a bit much!). [Phaenoh]

12) Might be nice to have some visible indication that the stayable logic has been run. Perhaps the sign could change color, or give a sale price, or ...?

13) The mod needs some code cleanup. If possible, break into sub-BHAVs to document the code a bit, since it's fairly complex.
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#40 Old 8th Jan 2013 at 11:17 PM
I'll up the mesh height. Maybe not as tall as Quatchi's pictures, but I'll make it comparable to the mailbox. I'll also work on a texture for the sign when the stayable logic has run, maybe a SOLD sticker plastered over it? Or the real estate agent's phone number? Something. I'll work on it. For the code to get it to change, we should look at lamps or counters or other multistate objects. Though, as I recall, that might make recolors later harder.

I'll also look into fixing the cheering and crying. Having the sign get knocked over is a problem, but it isn't that hard to make new interactions that circumvent the Deviant Behavior (that also allows the sign to be steal-able, which would surely cause us more headaches.)

For the slot issue, you can have it check for a specific GUID. Echo made me a chair template that checked for more of itself. (Was working on stacking chairs)
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DELETED POST
9th Jan 2013 at 12:37 AM
This message has been deleted by Mootilda. Reason: Remove double post.
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#41 Old 11th Jan 2013 at 5:30 AM Last edited by Mootilda : 11th Jan 2013 at 5:48 AM.
Another question:

I thought that I could create a tuning package for this mod by creating a new package with just the BCON and TRCN which control the categories of objects which are considered "built-in". Of course, both the BCON and TRCN have a Group ID of 0xFFFFFFFF. My understanding was that this is replaced in-game by the Group ID in the NREF record, so I replaced the Group ID in my tuning package with this new Group ID. However, the new values in the tuning package were not picked up.

Can someone spot what I'm doing wrong? Do I need to change all of the Group IDs in the main mod to have the Group ID from the NREF record? [Update: this works, but it isn't very elegant.]
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#42 Old 3rd Oct 2014 at 12:49 AM
I've uploaded this. http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=537238

I was so close to having pie menu options to either Keep Everything, or just Keep Fixtures, but I guess I had trouble with my grammar. Both of those runs of BHAVs works as the Go Live hook, but they don't work when I have a sim try to do it. I've left them in as Debug menu items if someone can take a look at where I went wrong in the 'Interaction - Set Fixtures' and 'Interaction - Set Everything' BHAVs.
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