So what if I'm incapable of staying with one project for very long, and I make enormous lots that may not work for lots of people. I have fun with it!

My latest project in the multimillion-dollar mansion vein (at least, the latest that's far enough along that I bother posting it here- there's plenty more! ) is Hatley Castle in British Columbia. I was lucky enough to find the floorplans and elevations attached when I started this project, and then to get a response from the Archives at Royal Roads University (the current owners of Hatley Castle) full of photos and videos of the castle, both in its early days, and as it looks today.



Obviously, this isn't close to being finished yet, but I'd love some feedback before I'm too locked-in to too much of it. I'm a touch worried that I may have been staring at the floorplans so long that I actually started missing things, so some fresh eyes could be useful. Also, some of the main-floor rooms ARE finished, which should give an idea of the style that'll end up being used, so any feedback on that would be helpful too! The huge help that a CF thread for my Highclere Castle lot makes me hope that it'll end up being helpful here too! Much obliged for any feedback here!

Just a few things on a quick look. The wall of the terrace, where it's above a foundation, the corner pillars have no footing. I know this is a build restriction but I wondered if you could do anything about that because it looks wrong, especially over the swimming pool.

In the dining room, you have radiators across the window (and elsewhere). I can't answer for building practices in the new world but in England at least you'd never get something like that obstructing the view and getting in the way.

Also, not sure about the wooden doors at the back with all the white windows.

Wouldn't the winged armchairs be better in the study opposite the fire? Dining chairs would be too uncomfortable in that context.

Are the rooms fixed by the plan because I'd put the drawing room either where the billiard room is or in the room at the back behind it? I think that room is too large and grand for a billiard room. Over here at least, they tended to be in smaller square functional rooms.

Are you going to have a library? Also, how do you get in to what I'm interpreting as the ballroom (which I see on the plan is actually the drawing room, so I answered my own question there)?

I agree on the terrace wall pillars... I'm still trying to find a way to deal with that, because it looks wrong without them, but you're definitely right, it looks kind of wrong as-is too. They're too short to just stick columns underneath, but hopefully I'll find something that'll work!

I'm trying to stay as true to the actual building as possible, and the radiators actually ARE in front of the windows... kind of odd, but there it is. Same for the wooden doors on the back.

I kind of tend to overuse dining chairs, you're right- I'll have to see if there's an armchair that still looks appropriate in that space for the office.

Yes, the rooms are fixed (to a certain extent) by the actual floorplan. The billiard room is (at this point) my least-favorite, especially since the TS2 pool tables are the "normal" size for a family, instead of the full-sized one that's in the real building that would take up more floor space- it just makes the room look too empty. I think I'll probably end up having to edit that room away from reality quite a bit to be satisfied with it, but it will have a pool table in it, just for some realism's sake. As to the library, there's not one on the plan, but the smoking room will probably end up being a library in-game, just because there's not really much of a "smoking room" needed for Sims who can't smoke, and I want a library too! Certainly, it'd be preferable to just having yet another living room!

Not sure if you found them or not, but the great big drawing room/ballroom has double doors on either side of the fireplace in the entry hall.

I wonder if it would be possible to place columns there using moveobjects on and hiding the top in the actual pillars (it doesn't matter if there's overlap if you can't see it). There are a good number of solid square or cylindrical columns available and you'd just need one with the same texture.

Standard columns were too tall- they stuck out the tops above the terrace. I think the best solution may be running that same fence around on the foundation level- it's not a perfect fit, but it does at least get the columns to extend down to ground level...

Gorgeous building Zar.

I agree about the wall, I think your solution looks better.

I know the house has the radiators but I would remove them.

Glad you like most of it so far! Why would you say lose the radiators though? They're authentic, and I get the impression that having a heating system besides just a fire was something of a technological marvel at that time and place?

Just from a decorating point of view. I think things blocking windows are generally ugly and those are. Also I would worry about the curtains catching fire- even if they can't. Same reason I add a banister, it looks dangerous without one. I tend to go for looks over authenticity.

OK, I've gotten a lot more done on this lot, and I'm to the point where, if you wouldn't mind, I would love a few volunteers to playtest it!

I'd gotten a lot of information from one of the archivists at Royal Roads University, including the only photos I've been able to find of the bedrooms, so that was a huge help getting an idea of the feel for the upper level. Looking at the floorplans, there's a very distinct servants' wing on the left-hand side of the lot, and since the only staircase to the third floor goes up from this area, combined with the fact that most of the bedrooms on the third floor are very small affairs, I've assumed this was the servants' quarters in the estate, and decorated accordingly. The only part of the lot that's not been done up in any way thus far is the turret itself, since I have no idea what it was used for. I've asked the archivist who's helped me out so far if there's any information on it, but haven't yet heard back.
Everything else is furnished in a first-draft complete stage though, and I've (briefly) playtested a clone, just to make certain that there weren't any glaring problems (which there were, but I was able to fix them), but with how little I actually PLAY lots, I have serious doubts about the usefulness of my own playtesting beyond just ruling out huge issues, so I'm hoping you'll be able to assist me with this!

Just in case the lot would be too big for your computer to handle, I've also attached a few screenshots of the upper floors and servants' wing (the public spaces are more-or-less unchanged from my earlier post), and I'd welcome feedback there as well (though if you can playtest, that'd be the best! )

You're going to need fire alarms in all rooms with a fire - either that or your downloaders will end up with a gracious burnt out ruin once they start to play. Tricky to do and keep the style.

Ooh.. true, hadn't considered that! I almost never light fireplaces in most of the lots that I actually play, so I forget how insistently flammable everything is! I think most of those rooms should have something easy enough to hide an alarm behind though...

If I get a chance, I'll load up the lot today though I'm not playing much these days either.

I do agree that those radiators should be removed. While it may have been a technological marvel, having them block part of the window is still a big faux-pas, they had smaller/shorter ones specifically for going in-front/under windows.
Like so:



Although they would have usually been boxed in:



And used as benches:



Those large upright radiators would have been more prominently displayed as a statement of wealth:



Often in an entrance/reception hall:



I hope this has helped you reach an informed decision.

That's definitely good information to have, but you'll be disappointed to hear that the radiators are going to stay! (in this lot, at least... I'll probably make much less use of them in some of the other grand old houses I'm working on!) The video of the tour made too big a thing out of the house having them, and the photos I've managed to track down show radiators only slightly smaller than the one from AL that I'm using (the windows didn't go down quite as far in the real house, so they weren't blocked quite as much,but the windows I'm using are the closest EAxis approximation I could get to work).

And I actually love seeing the different ways a radiator can be hidden- my favorite RL architect managed to find all sorts of novel ways of concealing them in her hotels and shops, since she hated how they looked!

(Of course, you're more than welcome to remove them from this lot once it's finished and "officially" uploaded!)

OK I had a look at the lot in game - I've not played it, these are just my comments on loading in build mode. Please bear in mind they are just my opinions and reactions. You may not agree. That's ok. And I'm not criticising you in a negative way.

1. Remember when you save the final version to save with walls up and on the top level. I think you know this anyway.

2. I'm not sure about the servants 'dorm' on the second floor (that is to say the English second floor - Americans call it third I think). I mean the floor above the ground and middle floors. You seem to have about 25 beds for servants. I'd say this: a. it's unlikely even a large house like this one would have such a large number of servants living in even in the 19th century; b. even if that were the case, no-one is going to play the lot with 25 sims as servants plus a family and c. why not have that dorm room as a servants' hall since you don't seem to have one? You know, a living/sitting room the servants could socialise in.

3. Some of the servant bedrooms on the upper floor (attics) would likely be used for storage in a real house of that type. It's an absolute stock-in-trade of mystery novels.

4. I was a bit puzzled by the kitchen arrangements. The room I thought would be called the kitchen (the one nearer the front), seemed a bit bare to me. There seems to be a second kitchen a bit further back with fridges. In a house like that there'd likely be a kitchen where the food was prepared and a pantry with the comestibles in it. There'd also be a scullery (essentially a wet room with sinks for cleaning pots and pans and doing the clothes washing, plus a copper (unless this is a modern version of the house)) and other rooms like a flower room or buttery. Also a butler's pantry (serving items, not food). Just some suggestions.

5. Dining room - I wouldn't use two tables myself. One table and sideboards would work. You can do things with moveobjects on and snaptogrid false to get a longer table.

6. Drawing room - personally I don't like that long bar. Looks like a public bar in a pub to me. Inappropriate for a residential setting. If you were going to have something like that, the billiard room would be a better place for it (and you could move the piano out which doesn't really belong in there). Talking of which, why not add a music room? You could use one of the bedrooms on the first (middle) floor. Also, I dislike the symmetrical arrangements of chairs and couches round the fireplace in the drawing room. That always looks unnatural to me.

7. Finally, this is the outside on load up. The issue with the windows is because you are using the ivy and is easily fixable (though I have to say I would dislike having to fix that much). However, some downloaders would not know what to do and would likely be unhappy with that.

Thanks a lot for looking, maxon! A lot of the points you make I fully agree with, I'm just trying to find the balance between staying as true as possible to the actual building plans, and making a lot that will work the best in TS2.

1. Yup, I know to do that, I just didn't bother with a tester upload!

2. True... Making a servants' hall is a good idea, although what I'd most like would be to turn a few more of the servants' quarters into workshops or utility rooms, a la the sewing room... trouble is, I don't really see much more that can be made like that... maybe a florist's room, to put together fresh flower arrangements? I'll have to think about that, because you're definitely right- there are WAY more beds than needed (there still will be when it's uploaded, but it doesn't need to be quite that excessive!)

3. That's actually already what I'm going to use as my fallback for the turret, if I don't hear back from RRU in the next few days... it'll probably just have a scattering of furniture and boxes, nothing too elaborate- it leaves more storytelling flexibility for downloaders that way, not to mention making the lot just a little bit less processor-intensive!

4. The kitchen is a part where I'm trying to stay true to the actual house where possible... the "second kitchen" that you describe is the pantry, hence no stove or food prep in it. The main kitchen, all I know for sure from the floorplan is the small counter with sinks over by the front windows- the rest is my own imagining. I'm not too thrilled with it, but I'm not sure how it should really be handled (and I really want to come up with a better way of making a big standalone stove/oven, since I feel like it'd be a good "mood piece," as it were, but I don't like how it looks now.) I definitely don't want to put everything into just one room though- I like the feel of a more sprawling kitchen area for a lot like this!

5. I've tried one table, but it ended up looking too spare, I thought. I know the tricks with move_objects and snapobjectstogrid, but with a narrow table, it's still kind of spartan. I suppose I could try turning it so that it's lengthwise with the room, but wouldn't it be "wrong" to have set up that way? It doesn't seem like I can remember seeing a formal dining room of this sort where you would orient the table like that...

6. The bar isn't quite from the era when the house was occupied (this is one of the things I got from the video RRU linked me to!), since it was put in after the building became part of the military college, but it is a part of the actual house, and actually, the wood bar in TS2 looks almost identical to the one that went in! I'm not thrilled with it, but I'd have to come up with something really compelling to replace it. I can definitely fiddle around with the furniture though... I don't like symmetry in rooms either (for the most part), it just seems to be what I default to when I don't have a better idea at the time!

7. AAARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! *puts axe through monitor* I will never understand why windows in this game hate sharing their space so much!!! That seems kind of odd though... I see some of the windows that showed up properly DO have curtains over them, or architectural molding above them on the same tile, despite the fact that it runs in my head that even curtains will make windows and doors not cooperate if they're 'reset,' so to speak... yet it does seem like only the ones with ivy on them are problematic... AAARGHH! This is definitely a problem, since the ivy is a pretty major part of the outside of the building! Did you run into the same issue on the back (especially with the turret?)?

Yeah I know, you did a real nice job with the ivy too getting it to look like a natural growth. Bummer.

It's something I'll have to bear in mind with future creations, I guess... I did some testing, and curtains DON'T cause the same problem, but anything from the "wall hangings" decorative subset does... I wonder if there's anyone out there who's made a mod to just treat ALL wall-mounted objects as curtains... could be a good way of sidestepping the problem.

I'll have to consider how to deal with this too... especially with not using any CC, I'm limited with how things can go together in-game, and making creations that stand out usually means using a LOT of stuff, including all sorts of wall ornaments, and I don't see a way to deal with that...

EDIT: I wonder, this isn't something I've heard about with anything else I've uploaded, although I know there are at least a few other lots where it would have been an issue... is there any chance that you've got something that altered the windows or the ivy, or the order they spawn in, or some such? (I'm probably grasping at straws here, but had to check!)

Looks great!

The only thing is that the back of the tower doesn't feel solid/heavy enough. I know you were aiming for the original look of the building, but the windows on the tower itself (both sides of the bay window) are a bit too wide compared to the solid portions.

This might be the case where either replacing all the rear tower windows with a thinner 2-tile window, or removing the windows on both sides of the bay window might look more realistic, despite not being true to the plans!

Other than that, it's perfect- keep on going :D

AFAIK it's an issue with all wall coverings other than curtains (and some other things). You see it a lot - so much so that I read about how to fix it from a post by Plasticbox.

OK, and by "how to fix it," do you mean the very tedious process of moving everything away from the wall, pickup up and replacing the window, and then moving everything back? or is there some slightly easier approach that I'm not familiar with?

Well, it's how to fix it for the user. You can draw a square (or more) of foundation near the window and that will reset the window to see-through (you can 'undo' to get rid of the square). However, this is not a fix for builders.

Can you link me to Plasticbox's post? Because I think I know what you mean, and if I do, it'd be easy enough to just put a note on the upload telling people to do that, but I want to be sure I know what I'm talking about!

Not easily - it was a long time ago. I think it was on one of her upload threads.

@plasticbox , any chance you could help me out here?