Replies: 34 (Who?), Viewed: 1288 times.
Page 1 of 2
Alchemist
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Aug 2021 at 1:32 AM
Default If You Want to Read 30 Pages of Feedback
Many Simmers posted as to what they think is lacking in 4. Why some of us think the game is too shallow, why it does not hold our attention long for many for us. Why folks like me have fired up the game only a few times in the past year.

https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/di...ack-august-19th

Do not think I saw this here before so sorry if a duplicate.
Advertisement
Scholar
#2 Old 22nd Aug 2021 at 2:54 AM
30 pages in 24 hours! I read about three pages but they mostly are on point. But I doubt a team that can't tell by themselves what is meant by depth and challenge can actually figure out how to fix things. And of course, there are always surveys and questions but after 7 years, it's not like these things haven't been pointed out many times before. I'm afraid this will be just another "we hear you" fake-out.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#3 Old 22nd Aug 2021 at 7:49 PM Last edited by daisylee : 23rd Aug 2021 at 2:16 AM.
I read about 3 pages also and that was enough. I also have a feeling they have heard most of this before. And I also doubt that much will change. My guess is they may implement one or 2 token things and that will be it.

edit: found this by accident when looking for something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBPjZcpUOV0
Alchemist
#4 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 5:06 AM
Did anyone suggest making a Sims 5 with an open world? Because that's the only thing that will fix this dumpster fire.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#5 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 6:48 AM
If 5 does not have an open world and CASt I will not even consider it. Also, if online only.
Lab Assistant
#6 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 1:51 PM
It makes you wonder why the sims team even does this ridiculous "we want to know what you think/want" type shit. I guess it's because they have to do "something" to please the natives before they get too restless while they whittle away at creating more kit stuff and expansion packs for a broken game.

Hear the other side. - St. Augustine
Guest
#7 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 5:41 PM
Hello. Nice topic
Alchemist
Original Poster
#8 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 6:01 PM
Ah, the disagree fairy is here I see.
Be like the 22nd elephant with heated value in space- Bark!
retired moderator
#9 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 6:16 PM
This is how I imagine the disagree fairy:

Screenshots

I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will
-RUSH- -RADIO- -RADIO- -ARCHIVES-
Simpeople and Me Archive- -11Dots Archive- My Sims World Archive
Lab Assistant
#10 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 8:48 PM
I just personally disagree that sims games need to be open world.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#11 Old 23rd Aug 2021 at 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysmash
I just personally disagree that sims games need to be open world.


If think if all else is done per what folks like then most will forgive that, but when it is in addition to so many things that are lacking per many of us, it is just another straw on the pile of irritations, and a major one.
Scholar
#12 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysmash
I just personally disagree that sims games need to be open world.


Is this because of potential performance problems like in TS3? Or do you just don't like the idea of open world gameplay for a sims game? I mean, after all it is just a bigger area without loading screens. What if (from TS4 point of view) a street with all its lots included would be loaded? So at least you see your neighbours leaving and entering their houses.

I mean where you draw the line of what is loaded at the same time is kind of arbitary. TS3 and TS4 way are not the only options. There is a lot possible in between.
Lab Assistant
#13 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 1:49 PM
All I know is that eliminating loading screens would surely cut down on an enormous amount of time going from lot (household) to lot. (Well, I would like that.)

Hear the other side. - St. Augustine
Mad Poster
#14 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 3:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dikosay
All I know is that eliminating loading screens would surely cut down on an enormous amount of time going from lot (household) to lot. (Well, I would like that.)


It takes my TS3 game about 3 minutes to load if I clear all caches; a minute and half if I leave them alone. I wonder how many minutes are wasted between loading screens for the average person playing TS4. It is a safe bet that it goes well beyond 3 minutes. People that keep their sims in the hermit life to dodge loading screens don't count...
Lab Assistant
#15 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 3:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mithrak_nl
Is this because of potential performance problems like in TS3? Or do you just don't like the idea of open world gameplay for a sims game? I mean, after all it is just a bigger area without loading screens. What if (from TS4 point of view) a street with all its lots included would be loaded? So at least you see your neighbours leaving and entering their houses.

I mean where you draw the line of what is loaded at the same time is kind of arbitary. TS3 and TS4 way are not the only options. There is a lot possible in between.


It gets annoying to keep track of my sims in a completely open world. Even in 4 they will run of to talk with people instead of focusing on the items on the lot they're on.

And with open world the game is gonna waste resources simulating stuff I don't care about. I like to focus on my own sims. It doesn't need to simulate the day-to-day life of every single sim in real time, that's going to get taxing for the game and give more possibility for corruption/screw ups in game.

Loading screens are not that bad. It isn't 2004 anymore, hardware and software has improved, and loading times in games aren't actually that long.

There was just this big push from AAA publishers to make *every* game open world, I think some people forget that games can work well without it and not all games are suited for it.

Sorry if it sounds a bit ramble-y, I'm not always good at expressing myself.
Scholar
#16 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 4:44 PM
I don't like the loading screens because they inhibit my immersion. I get bored in Sims2 (I don't play Sims4) when I stay on the lot all the time, but I don't like to go somewhere else because of the loading. And it really takes only a few seconds. Still, it stops immersion for me. So, I stay on the lot.

I think a future iteration should find a way to cater to more play styles out of the box. Sims3 with the NRAAS mods can help with rotational play and I know at least one person who plays with the whole town. I don't, except for checking in on relatives when I'm on my third generation. But Open World actually makes you focus on the active lot much more. At least that's my experience.

It's funny, many rotational Sims2 players found the focus on one lot/family in an open world annoying at the beginning. I installed a mod that makes my sims leave the home lot more often autonomously since I forget sometimes to take advantage of the big and beautiful world out there.

@Keysmash, it sounds like you prefer the doll house approach to the world approach. Playing Sims3 for me doesn't inhibit that, but makes the sims my sims do meet a lot more interesting since they have a life they can talk about and it influences how they interact with mine. From what I understand, the non-playing sims in Sims4 are not much more than set dressing. I might be wrong here but if that's not of interest, then I get why open world would be not so appealing.
Top Secret Researcher
#17 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 10:43 PM
I dislike "open world" as done in 3 because I am a serious control freak. I'm well aware mine is not the majority opinion.

Could it be done better? I would like to see them try.
Forum Resident
#18 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 11:20 PM Last edited by parrot999 : 25th Aug 2021 at 11:32 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusannaG
I dislike "open world" as done in 3 because I am a serious control freak. I'm well aware mine is not the majority opinion.

Could it be done better? I would like to see them try.


I am in agreement, though for me it's less about being a control freak and more about wanting my characters and scenarios to clash and interact without missing anything. An open world alone is a neutral idea in my mind. Can be good, or awful.. 3's was mediocre on it's own merits (an open world where the most interesting places don't actually exist beyond a setdressing model, and you can collect random useless baubles, and follow badly animated vehicles to places that, as I said before, are just set dressing.) but the real issue is decisions like story progression and synced aging 3 built off the open world idea are fundamentally antithetical to having any presence in the world more complex than one single family interacting with boring townies, and it's fundamentally frustrating to play as a result.

I REALLLLY do not like only controlling one family per world. It severely limits my options when characters are aging and dying and moving out before I get back to their story, but with 3's idea of "living" world, that's all you get. Townies are and always have been too crap to fill the role or recurring characters and drama, and as for the obcessive "realism" argument in favor of all sims aging at the same rate, I have three words for you: Elixer of life! Or life fruit, fountain of youth, etc.

It is ironically LESS realistic in a world where a decent chunk of people have access to deaging stuff for everyone to age at an even rate! There should be grandmas outliving their grandchildren purely as a facet of the worldbuilding... But nah. Even aging = realism = good cuz reasons apparently.
Alchemist
Original Poster
#19 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 11:28 PM
I love the open world in 3 as I play totally legacy style. Unless some particular reason, say to test a world I am doing in CAW, I solely play my legacy family of over 30 generations. It will be very interesting to see what is done in 5, assuming there is one.

Also, one of my favorite things in the game is following a car a Sim is driving, especially at night. Love to watch it travel in the world.
Forum Resident
#20 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisylee
I love the open world in 3 as I play totally legacy style. Unless some particular reason, say to test a world I am doing in CAW, I solely play my legacy family of over 30 generations. It will be very interesting to see what is done in 5, assuming there is one.

Also, one of my favorite things in the game is following a car a Sim is driving, especially at night. Love to watch it travel in the world.


But what fun is a legacy if the only people your family can bounce off of are basically crappy boring weirdos, in a world where there is basically no conflict deeper than a puddle (cuz of the oversimplification of the relationship system) It would be like watching a show where every single character outside the main characters are unlikable, awkward and shallow.
Mad Poster
#21 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 11:40 PM
I don't understand why people insist that anybody that plays TS3 must do so for some kind of 'realism'. It's a video game, it should be treated it as such. I like open worlds because I like how they look ( custom worlds anyway) and I like poking around or trolling my hood while my sims are asleep so I can see what everybody else is up to. My game play is based on picture taking; candid shots are my favorites.

I don't feel the need to helicopter over any given household that I'm playing because they might do something I don't agree with. With the NRAAS suite, people can have as much or as little control as they want.
Forum Resident
#22 Old 25th Aug 2021 at 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
I don't understand why people insist that anybody that plays TS3 must do so for some kind of 'realism'. It's a video game, it should be treated it as such. I like open worlds because I like how they look ( custom worlds anyway) and I like poking around or trolling my hood while my sims are asleep so I can see what everybody else is up to. My game play is based on picture taking; candid shots are my favorites.

I don't feel the need to helicopter over any given household that I'm playing because they might do something I don't agree with. With the NRAAS suite, people can have as much or as little control as they want.


If you are responding to me, I'm not saying that's the only reason people like 3, but it is sooooo often an argument for why these crap game decisions were just. And I am aware, NRAAS is basically mandatory, but they are also third party mods, and their existence doesn't make the official implementation any less shit. So when people whine about wanting a "Sims 3 open world", whether they realize it or not, they aren't arguing for an NRAAS inspired malleable open world. They are arguing for a one family world where functionally no one else you've made can exist, and if you try, they won't for long. I am open to an open world, I just want it be pretty much NOTHING like 3's implementation. Fingers crossed for Paralives.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 26th Aug 2021 at 12:07 AM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 26th Aug 2021 at 12:44 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysmash
It gets annoying to keep track of my sims in a completely open world. Even in 4 they will run of to talk with people instead of focusing on the items on the lot they're on.

And with open world the game is gonna waste resources simulating stuff I don't care about. I like to focus on my own sims. It doesn't need to simulate the day-to-day life of every single sim in real time, that's going to get taxing for the game and give more possibility for corruption/screw ups in game.


The Sims 4 has shitty AI, which isn't the open world fault. TS2 is close world but I never Sims in it ever running out of their house outside to greet some hobos or strangers they never met to wave hello, unless they been invited. TS4 just run to greet EVERYONE, because well - everyone is extroverted regardless of their traits.

Also, it can be less taxing if developers know how to code it. TS2 has lots possibilities of corruption, despite it being closed world.

Love or dislike open world, but all I'm saying that the disadvantages you pointed out, aren't the drawbacks BECAUSE OF the open world,


Also, story progression is what made Sims.... well progressed (grow older, have families and shit), not necessary the inclusion of open world. I think it be best compromised for both TS2 and TS3 players in an Open World Simulation Game, would be if it had in Main Menu two modes to choose from:
a)Rotational Play: Progression happens only with active/played household (they age, get pregnant, time and location is confined to households oppose globally), basically like of TS1/TS2 principle except the game is open world, but without inactive and non-played Sims not progressing without player intervention. However, complex story progression (Nrass-like) options should still be available, if they wanna apply specific events to play out without players interventions without going full-blown SP.
b)Progressive Play/Story Progression: TS3 principle, where the time (hours) is applied globally regardless which household you switch to and Sims don't reset out of their current location (Switching from Bob 12 am to Goths that were last played at 4 am, the time will be left of when you stop playing with previous household). So yeah, you won't pick up from where you left of and Sims will not stay in place.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Mad Poster
#24 Old 26th Aug 2021 at 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
The Sims 4 has shitty AI: Sims in it autonomously run out in the street street to greet some hobo or stranger they don't even know to wave hello, where in TS2 they stayed put in their house. So Open World has nothing to do with it.



Yeah, there's that. Then there is all the obnoxious, random push-ups, butting in on conversations, taking other sims food when the game is played with Dine Out, showing up on a sim's lot uninvited, then refusing to leave, and so on. I could go on for what feels like forever.

I'm by no means suggesting that my sims are normal, little angels, but they certainly don't behave like TS4 sims; thank goodness for that.
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 26th Aug 2021 at 1:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
Yeah, there's that. Then there is all the obnoxious, random push-ups, butting in on conversations, taking other sims food when the game is played with Dine Out, showing up on a sim's lot uninvited, then refusing to leave, and so on. I could go on for what feels like forever.

I'm by no means suggesting that my sims are normal, little angels, but they certainly don't behave like TS4 sims; thank goodness for that.


But it would all be because the sims team coded it that way. If an open world is coded right, none of that stupid shit would happen. I know a lot of seemingly ignorant stuff that happens in 4 is because the team thinks it's either a) charming b) funny or c) necessary in order to break monotony. (And there's a lot of monotony.) The problem is that the team either doesn't go far enough when coding an animation or they go too far. A kid playing with a toy should not be continuously hitting herself in the head with it. And yet, when a household is visited during the daytime when children should be in school and adults should be at work (if it's within their schedule), then all children should already be in school - not late for it. Likewise for adults with jobs. You should not have to go around sending everyone out the door.

Real people keep their schedules and go to work and school on their own (unless there is a legitimate reason not to) - not have to always be told. Real people do not break into others conversations - unless invited or likewise have a legitimate reason to do so.

Yeah, the sims team does life simulation - and plays stupidly with it. It does not matter if it's in an open world, or the loading screen type world we already got. As long as the sim team continues to make their simulated people do dumb, silly and unrealistic things, it won't matter.

Hear the other side. - St. Augustine
Page 1 of 2
Back to top