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Original Poster
#1 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 2:31 PM
Default What in the world is a bandatron?
I searched the term in several dictionaries, and to no avail I can't find the definition of the term. Yet, somehow people know what it is in the Sims community and seem to mean the Electrono-Ticket Machine when they say "bandatron", like using the term "sim shrink" when really they mean the "therapist". A "shrink" is actually an English word, which means "clinical psychologist, psychiatrist, or psychotherapist". I personally don't use it because of its imprecision and slight unfamiliarity with slang, colloquial language, and regional idioms. Still, how did this word come about? I figure I'd ask the Sims community, seeing that this word occurs most often in results on various Sim-related sites.
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Theorist
#2 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 3:02 PM
The "bandatron" is indeed a slang term the Electrono-Ticket Machine. I'm not sure where it came from, though. I thought it might be a brand name of a real-life ticket machine, but a quick Google search seems to suggest that it isn't.

You are correct that "shrink" is slang for "therapist." It comes from the older term "headshrinker," which was also a slang term for "therapist." "Shrink" is used a lot for two reasons: 1. it's easier to spell and 2. you get the alliteration of Sim Shrink. ("Alliteration" is when two or more words in a phrase or sentence start with the same letter, and English speakers tend to like it, even if it's not common. But you knew that.)

If you use either term the way you understand them in the simming community, you will be 100% correct.

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Mad Poster
#3 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 3:45 PM
Here's the thing about language: It generates spontaneously in a community that hangs out and speaks together, and spreads by avenues so easy and natural that no one can see them spread. If a term is needed, it gets made. Electrono-Ticket Machine takes too long to type and is difficult to say, so somebody, somewhere, thought to call it a bandatron in a context in which it was obvious; other people recognized the usefulness of the term and took it over, and voila! Slang. Human beings are very, very good at generating the language they need to communicate.

In pre-internet days regional variation was more common - for instance, back in the early 80s, when I first played D&D, we in San Antonio were calling 13-year-old power gamers "Munchkins." A friend of mine from Utah called them "Onlies" (from the Star Trek episode with the kids alone on a planet except for the evil "Friendly Angel." Eventually the aspect of extreme chronological youth dropped out of the term Munchkin, so that when Austin-based Steve Jackson Games wanted a name for their card game that would evoke an immature, no-holds-barred, kill-things-and-take-their-stuff powergaming style of play, they thought of "Munchkin." Since the Munchkin card game came out nationally and became rampantly popular, now everybody in the gaming community knows what a Munchkin is and applies it in the context of other games, as well. Or maybe the term was used in online gaming before the card game came out, I don't know; nor do I know whether the term originated in Texas. It's possible that "Munchkin" was an urban coinage that spread through areas densely populated enough to support networks of smaller gaming communities while the relative isolation of gaming groups in places like Utah caused a proliferation of coinages which all died out due to their isolation; or maybe "Munchkin" originated on the convention circuit and "Onlies" was an idiosyncratic use specific to my friend's circle. There's no way to tell. But we needed a term for that kind of player, and we wound up with one.

The internet normalizes usage at a greatly increased rate - I've never played a text-based game, but I know what "pwn" means. But the mechanism is basic to human brain function.

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Original Poster
#4 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 5:11 PM
Thanks, everybody. I realize that some terms and phrases have unknown etymologies.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 6:22 PM
... and I thought Munchkins were the little people in The Wizard of Oz! Shows my age!

Anyone got any idea of the etymology of bandatron? Has it anything to do with "band", or perhaps "bandit"?

Come to think of it, even in the "official" Sims vocabulary there are a few words and phrases I'd never heard before I started playing the Sims. I presume they're American slang. "Making out" was a new one for me, though it's pretty obvious what it is! And I'm still not quite sure what "noogie" is. Except that it's something that really nice teen Sims don't do.
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Original Poster
5th Oct 2013 at 6:34 PM
This message has been deleted by ZXC56VB. Reason: Some people are such picky linguistic NAZIs.
The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#6 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 6:36 PM
Hmmm - it would be interesting to see where we got that from. I'd guess from some simmer who used a local term for the electro-whatsit. I'd never heard the word before OFB was released and inferred the meaning from how it was used in the community. How odd but possibly a lovely illustration of how language develops.

Incidentally, alliteration is not the repetition of letters but the repetition of a sound within a phrase or sentence. So:

'The Simple Simmer said...' is alliteration while
'The Social Simmer said...' is not.

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Original Poster
#7 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 6:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxon
Hmmm - it would be interesting to see where we got that from. I'd guess from some simmer who used a local term for the electro-whatsit. I'd never heard the word before OFB was released and inferred the meaning from how it was used in the community. How odd but possibly a lovely illustration of how language develops.

Incidentally, alliteration is not the repetition of letters but the repetition of a sound within a phrase or sentence. So:

'The Simple Simmer said...' is alliteration while
'The Social Simmer said...' is not.


Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alliteration

The repetition of the same sounds or of the same kinds of sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in "on scrolls of silver snowy sentences" (Hart Crane). Modern alliteration is predominantly consonantal; certain literary traditions, such as Old English verse, also alliterate using vowel sounds.

The use of the same consonant (consonantal alliteration) or of a vowel, not necessarily the same vowel (vocalic alliteration), at the beginning of each word or each stressed syllable in a line of verse, as in around the rock the ragged rascal ran
Theorist
#8 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 7:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXC56VB
Yeah, "making out" is American slang for "having sex" or "engaging in sexual intercourse" or "copulating". Ironically in the Sims 2, "making out" just means heavy kissing but no chance of pregnancy. A noogie is "a hard poke or grind with the knuckles, esp. on a person's head", and I got that from a simple Google search. It fits perfectly with the EA interaction. When I joined the Sims community for the first time, I didn't really get the words "Sim" or the verb "sim". I just interpreted the little people as little people and called them "persons".


Actually, "making out" is a step or two down from sex. You can "make out" with all your clothes on and fastened should you be so inclined. But it's something of a continuum running from heavy kissing to basically all the same movements as sex, only with clothes on. (Source: I'm American. ) So The Sims 2 is using the phrase correctly.

You've got "noogie" perfect, though.

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Mad Poster
#9 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 7:24 PM
Alliteration with vowels is assonance.

And "making out" does not mean intercourse; it means foreplay. Most of the time it's used specifically in reference to teen interactions which are assumed to stop short of intercourse (hence the need for a separate term); or at least, it meant that when I was in high school, when people didn't feel obliged to leap straight into bed without any practice. (The people I knew who did had low-quality sex lives, btw. I know this 'cause people tell me things. And I suspect it's still true. It's a skill folks; it takes practice!)

Not all the jargon in the game is based on American slang. "Woohoo" is an exclamation of excitement and is one of many, many vague terms that can be used as a euphemism for genitalia, but if you use the term in America as it is used in the game you won't be understood. Except, of course, by your fellow simmers. Some are regional, such as "kicky bag," which has different regional names; presumably, the term used for different interactions and objects was chosen either by a project leader making assignments or by the developer in charge of that particular item, and the preferred term of whoever was in charge won out. I wouldn't have used "suck face" for the particular kiss interaction it does in the game; "suck face" to me is much more like the "smooch" interaction, which should be both smooth and sloppy, a very relaxed informal kiss. The "gross out" suite of interactions is full of legit slang terms.

This, btw, is what a noogie looks like, Ms. Gloria:

And no, I have no idea what its etymology is.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
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Inventor
#10 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 7:33 PM
I'm pretty sure etymology is about the origin of words, i.e., if someone was an etymologist, they would study words, their origins, and their meanings.
Why anyone would want to perform such an arduous task is beyond me, but I guess some people find pleasure in it.
Mad Poster
#11 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 8:00 PM
Yes, that's what it means. It's fun, and knowing a few principles of it is a great aid to context in understanding new words when you run across them, and to using them correctly yourself. It's common, for example, to mix up entymology (the study of insects) and etymology (the study of words; or, used informally as here, the origins of words), but if you understand how the words are put together it's easy to keep them straight.

Personally, esme, I'd call "all the same movements as sex, only with clothes on" "dry humping;" but the designers took the broadest possible usage, and the couch and standing make out animations do include dry humping.

This thread will inevitably have a lot of sex in it, not because we have dirty minds, but because American weirdness about sex means that an awful lot of slang, like an awful lot of the game terms, is called upon to express sexual ideas without using any terms recognized as "dirty" or "too explicit."

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Mad Poster
#12 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 8:10 PM
I was just about to say, I clearly missed something on this whole making out business if that is what it means (which I doubt it does). I always defined making out as kissing with tongue.
Theorist
#13 Old 5th Oct 2013 at 8:15 PM
Well, I've always figured "making out" is sort of an umbrella term, and you can get more specific within that: deep kissing, petting, dry humping, etc. Maybe that's a regionalism, though, or an idiolect.

For those who haven't studied linguistics, an "idiolect" is the speech habits of a particular person, where a "dialect" is the speech habits of a particular region/social group. So where I live now, people "sweep the rugs," but I "vacuum the doormats." Because I speak differently than the other people in my group, that's an idiolectical (sp?) usage. If I moved back to where I grew up -- and where everyone "vacuums the doormats" -- then it wouldn't be an idiolect. I think. It's been a long time since those linguistics classes in undergrad.

Etymology and linguistics are fascinating and lots of fun.

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The Great AntiJen
retired moderator
#14 Old 6th Oct 2013 at 12:41 AM
I said alliteration was sounds not letters - thank you for your 'corrections'. I gave bad examples, I admit - wasn't thinking too hard and was about to make tea (dinner).

Is it called a bandatron in game? It just occurred to me it might be. I hardly ever use the thing so can't remember what it's called.

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Theorist
#15 Old 6th Oct 2013 at 1:06 AM
No, in game it's called the "Electrono-Ticket Machine". I do like "bandatron" better.

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Original Poster
#16 Old 6th Oct 2013 at 1:22 AM
I think the "Electrono-Ticket Machine" is clearer and can be meaningful to a wider audience. The "Electrono" part refers to the fact that the machine is electric or automated. The "Ticket" part refers to the fact that it sells tickets automatically. Put them together, and you can easily visualize "Electrono-Ticket Machine" as a device that is used to sell tickets automatically. The word "Bandatron" may sound cool, but I do not find it at all obvious.
Alchemist
#17 Old 6th Oct 2013 at 1:25 AM
I used to frequent MATY and for the longest time I thought a bandatron was something kinky.

Of course, I know what it is now.
Needs Coffee
retired moderator
#18 Old 6th Oct 2013 at 1:37 AM
I just say 'ticket thing' and be done with it.

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Alchemist
#19 Old 6th Oct 2013 at 12:57 PM
"Ticket Machine" actually makes more sense, though I like the sound of "Bandatron"

Just call me Nikel
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Original Poster
8th Oct 2013 at 1:04 AM
This message has been deleted by ZXC56VB. Reason: Some people are such picky linguistic NAZIs.
Field Researcher
#20 Old 8th Oct 2013 at 1:53 AM
[QUOTE=AndrewGloria]... and I thought Munchkins were the little people in The Wizard of Oz! Shows my age!
QUOTE]
I'm 16 and that's the first thing I thought of. Of course, I had the opportunity to see the movie at a young age, along with the various spin-offs and remakes (but only after I saw the original thing). I've even read the books! Of course, there are probably kids my age out there who don't know what munchkins are, but those are called losers and they make terrible conversation.
Scholar
#21 Old 8th Oct 2013 at 2:47 AM
At first, I thought the term bandatron was spelt "bandtron". It made sense to me, in the sense that it 'bans' things, such as unwanted loiterers (unless they pay for your time). And -tron being elec-tron-ic, so yeah.

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Mad Poster
#22 Old 8th Oct 2013 at 3:37 AM
The short stature of the Munckins was the connection of them to the 13-year-old power gamers, yes. If you buy the Munchkin card game expecting an Oz theme, though, you'll be disappointed.

The term I recall Holden Caulfield using is "making time," not "making out." If Wikipedia defines "making out" to mean intercourse in current usage, Wikipedia is wrong. Hardly an unusual occurrence. This is the institution that would neither take Jane Yolen or her daughter's word for it that Jane Yolen is not dead, nor take any trouble to investigate the matter, though it's a simple enough fact to disprove.

I understood what "bandatron" meant from context before I ever had OFB. If you wanted a venue where people did things like listening to bands instead of buying stuff, you made your money from a bandatron. But whether we call it a bandatron or a ticket machine, everyone here understands what's meant, and that's what language is for.

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Original Poster
#23 Old 8th Oct 2013 at 4:31 AM Last edited by ZXC56VB : 8th Oct 2013 at 5:03 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peni Griffin
But whether we call it a bandatron or a ticket machine, everyone here understands what's meant, and that's what language is for.


And if a person doesn't understand what's meant by the term, it doesn't hurt to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peni Griffin
If Wikipedia defines "making out" to mean intercourse in current usage, Wikipedia is wrong.


Actually, Wikipedia does not define "making out" to mean intercourse in current usage. It actually says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia
The sexual connotations of the phrase "make out" appear to have developed in the 1930s and 1940s from the phrase's other meanings of "to succeed". Originally, it meant "to seduce" or "to have sexual intercourse with".


It also offers a citation: Moe, Albert F. (1966) "'Make out' and Related Usages". American Speech 41(2): 96–107.

Also, keep in mind that language can be very fluid. Sometimes, two people may use a word with the same spelling and part of speech, but the fine distinctions for both persons may be slightly different. For many people, "make out" connotes heavy petting or sexual foreplay. For some people, "make out" connotes sexual intercourse, because they may see that a person that is so sexually aroused in sexual foreplay as being equivalent to the sex itself.
Theorist
#24 Old 8th Oct 2013 at 12:23 PM
Peni, I agree that the point of language is to communicate, and that the simming community has agreed on a functional definition of "bandatron." However, because it is a simming community word (basically, jargon) and not a common English word, not everyone understands it right away, which is why ZXC56VB asked. And I think you're right that Holden Caulfied's girl was "making time" with another guy, not "making out."

ZXC56VB, you have found a reputable source in the American Speech citation for your added definition of "making out." (It's a professional journal, and they won't make silly mistakes like saying some is dead when they aren't.) However, it's also almost 50 years old, and slang changes very quickly.

For instance, when my parents were born, "gay" meant "happy" or "bright," and it could be used as a compliment. Not long after, the mainstream meaning of "gay" became "homosexual" (although it had been used that way in a then-obscure subculture for perhaps sixty years already), and nowadays some groups use "gay" to mean "uncool" -- although that usage is seen as insulting and not acceptable by many people. My parents are not yet old enough to collect Social Security, which means that in less than 65 years, the word had three very different definitions. Today, if you told someone that they/something of theirs looked "gay," you would get puzzled looks at best and severely beaten at worst. Explaining that it meant something different in the 1950s would not change the reaction, and might make an already angry person angrier. When discussing slang, it's generally best to accept the definition of a native speaker, and the younger the native speaker (or the more involved in a specialized community, if it's specialized slang), then the more authoritative their definition.

Upthread, AndrewGloria asked about what a "noogie" was, which Peni defined. What other questions do people have about terms in the game?

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Original Poster
#25 Old 8th Oct 2013 at 1:12 PM Last edited by ZXC56VB : 8th Oct 2013 at 4:49 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmeiolanthe
ZXC56VB, you have found a reputable source in the American Speech citation for your added definition of "making out." (It's a professional journal, and they won't make silly mistakes like saying some is dead when they aren't.) However, it's also almost 50 years old, and slang changes very quickly.


This is why the journal article is marked as a citation for the origin of the term, not the current usage. I suppose my post format was a bit confusing, because the citation was separated from the actual source. I was hoping that someone would actually read the Wikipedia source and confirm my citation. Geez... now you guys would think that Wikipedia is inaccurate on the origin of the term, when in reality, Wikipedia explicitly writes that the origin of the term ("sexual intercourse" meaning) dates back in the 1940s. Also, if you spot inaccuracy on Wikipedia, all of you have to do is change it. The point of Wikipedia is to make it better, not to keep the mistakes.
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