I recently finished a building that i like a lot and i wanted to save it for later use, but, while i was playing, i moved a family in it (it is an apartment building), without having saved it to the catalog first. Now i'd like to move the family out and save the building to the catalog, and also upload it here. I read that sims who inhabit lots leave all kinds of pieces of data that can cause corruption if the lot is then used in a separate town/game etc. I would like to know if there is a way to bring the building to a "as new" state, free of any data related to the previous inhabitants.

Thanks for any help!

This is highly disputed and may not even be an issue. Some people seem to worry a lot about it, but really unless there are graves, sims etc on the lot, there is absolutely no evidence that it causes harm. I mean, sure, there is no way of saying that it is definitely safe either, but I would and have done it many times. Especially on apartment lots, where the lot is reset after sims move out anyway. Sim references (which is the thing people worry about but might not actually cause harm) are usually attached to furniture, so don't use things like the Stay Things Shrub, move the family out normally and reinstate the furniture from the catalogue if you want it furnished.

If you want to be 100% sure the only way to do it is to rebuild the lot from scratch.

If you put the lot for upload I think I would mention that there's a tiny chance it might have sim references but there is no requirement that lots must be unplayed to be uploaded here. The main issue is if you have global mods installed, these can sneak onto a packaged lot. I believe you can use Clean Installer to remove them.

I disagree with this. I actually lost a neighborhood because of that "tiny" thing you say.

The sim references ARE dangerous and perhaps you should take more care about them. The game does not delete the sim references if you just remove the furnitures. Basically you can keep the furnitures and just remove the sim reference before you place it into another neighborhood. If you place that lot into another neighborhood, the game can't link the sim references to a sim because that sim doesn't exist in the neighborhood. That's why it will cause corruption. Actually all of the lots have sim references. You can't avoid them. They are also in never ever occupied lots. But they link to the universal sims which are in every neighborhood (e.g. Grim Reaper is an universal sim) That's why the game can link the sim references to them in other neighborhoods without any problems. These sim references are not dangerous. They're harmless. But if the sim references link to a non-universal sim, then you'll have to remove it from the lot before you place the lot into another neighborhood. Because those sim references are dangerous and will cause corruption if not removed from the lot.



You don't have to rebuild the lot from scratch. It's not the only way. There's a way to remove the sim references from the lot. The game will behave it just like the other never ever occupied lots.
It's not that difficult. You have to open the lot.package in SimPE and remove these following things:
(If there are any of them)

-Sim Information
-Sim Relations (SREL)
- SimDNA
- Sim Wants and Fears (SWAF)
- SimScores
- FamilyTree

(basically everything with 'Sim') With just the base game, I don't think that there are any SimScores in lot packages...

Simfreq, whatever ones personal opinions on the matter are, it's irrelevant in this situation. MTS guidelines for uploads states that lots must be clean, and not have been occupied by Sims. As with lot edges being flat, not following the rule will probably still be accepted if you make sure to clearly state in the description that it's not flat (or in this case, has been inhabited). That way people can decide for themselves if they want to take the risk or not.

Apartment lots are different from residential lots. When you move a family in, they live in a sort of sub-lot of the actual lot. If you make changes to the furniture, if you move the family out and back in again to the same apartment, it will have reverted back to default. That means apartment lots are less likely to have the problem of sim references, because those should be deleted on their own. Whether or not they are actually deleted in full, we can't find out.

@teoMihai1: As long as you state clearly that you did play the lot with one family, you can probably get it accepted any way. Whether you want to do that or not, is up to you

@Jawusa: According to Mootilda there are parts of the code and stuff in packages that we can't access with SimPE, so there may be sim references hiding that we can't know about or clean. So fixing it in SimPE is no guarantee, although I'm sure it's better than not doing it.

@Jawusa thank you for that clarity. I had thought removing the furniture, doors and windows cleaned a lot of sim references enough for moving a lot between hoods. For personal use I mean, I would never upload such a lot. I'm going to copy and past your post into my Word document that I keep for tips on the game.

The best way to test a lot before uploading it is to move that lot into the lot bin, move it back into the neighborhood (the original copy should still be in the lot bin), and then move a Sim into that lot. Once you're done testing, bulldoze the lot that was used to test and package the original lot instead. This only works if you have Nightlife or later, though.

In regards to objects referencing sims in the neighborhood, I don't think it was conclusive. Yes, there were potential problems because lots can contain controllers (e.g. the Super Duper Hug bug), without the lot clearing it off initially. Sim references may also remain in the lot files, but to what severity, it would need to be pin-pointed to its culprit. Maybe it's in specific cases rather than most cases that corrupt references can hurt. Our goal would be to find those specific cases and try to fix it out.
Here's an early thread talking about the issue.

There was an experiment I did when initial discussions about furniture containing references to particular sims occurred. It involved a house in one neighborhood being scanned with the ray-gun device (a reward object from one of the Sim careers). I recorded which objects were scanned, and who was in the Sim's thought bubble when the objects were scanned.

In that house most of the items were referencing the a cleaning maid (and some other NPC sims). After playing the house for a 24-sim hours, I saved the progress, exited the neighborhood. Prior to that, after building the experiment house, I packaged the lot, then used Clean Installer to place it into the LotCatalog folder. I then placed it into a 2nd neighborhood. Here's the post about what I did.

The house with the sim in the 2nd neighborhood did the scanning too, and the furniture referenced random sims from the 2nd neighborhood, rather than most being a cleaning maid, the Grim Reaper, or other NPC sims. This was all an in-game experiment, rather than out-of-game testing.

To me, that concluded that either:
- The scanning gun didn't tell what references the furniture actually related to, or
- The furniture on the lot changes its references to any random sim in the neighborhood, if the initial reference can't be found, or
- Other issues.

If a piece of furniture (say a double bed) referenced the Grim Reaper in the 1st neighborhood, then when the lot is placed into the second neighborhood, that same double bed should have referenced the Grim Reaper too. But it didn't.

Another curious thing that occurred during testing. I scanned the neighborhood using HoodCleaner and decided to see the "valid memories" listing. One of the entries in the neighborhood referenced a "Food Unit Info" on that test lot. It got me thinking, would that be for items placed in the lot's fridge? If so, would that "Food Unit Info" have any bearing upon the corruption that could occur in other people's games? Like, if this "Food Unit Info" contains information about items in the fridge, would it reference any GUIDs of existing food and custom content food?


Even building a brand new lot without anybody testing it still produces sim references in the lot.package. It didn't matter whether the neighborhood was squeaky clean with absolutely no sims in the Characters folder, sim references would still be added to the lot.package.

I even claimed in that the SREL in the lot files don't relate to those in the neighborhood.package file. There was no change in the relationship information from the sims in-game, they continued with their previous status'. So what would the SREL info from the lot.packages relate to? I proposed also that when certain objects are added to the lot, a SREL entry is added to the lot's file. I didn't test which items added SREL entries, though. Perhaps that would be a good experiment to do. Add an item, save the lot, close the game, then check for SREL entries in the lot file. It'll be tedious, but may produce results.

I think it's one of those things that each person just has to do what they are comfortable with. Personally I would never upload a lot that had a sim live on it nor would I download such a lot- not if I knew, and people should state clearly if it ever did.

Interesting thread... everyone ! The longer I play this game the better I'm becoming at learning how to prevent corruption.
So, in a way, the safest lots are ones that we create from the lot bin--- the ones that come empty ?
Holy moly, I have lots not only from here at MTS but also from other sites like PBK , and one from back in the olden days of the Sims2.ea.com.

Haven't noticed any corruption --except my pc can only stand to run about 1-2 GB's of CC before the game has longer 'black' screen before the hood or lot loads up.
I'm thinking about deleting all of my custom lots and just building my own , to be safe ! Going to be sad about Phaenoh's apocalypse lots... like the Founder's lot.

I am also assuming that ALL of the lots that come packaged with the game are safe in whatever hood you place them ?

I'll say this: I've played lots that I know for sure have been previously occupied (because the lot value was depreciated.) I've played them in neighborhoods that I ran for 20+ generations and I never had a problem with them or the neighborhood itself.

Which isn't to say that I disbelieve people who say that they've had problems. I'm just saying that people's experiences with this are different. It might have, for instance, something to do with how and how long the lot in question was played before it was shared.) The safest thing to do is build for yourself from scratch or use the lots that come with the game (Yes, Tleilaxu3, they are all safe, even the occupied ones; NEVER use a player-created occupied lot.) Beyond that, check to see if the creator says whether or not the lot has been previously occupied. If they don't say, ask.

Or, you know, risk it. I'm not discounting the people who've said they've had neighborhoods ruined, but I tend to think it more likely that the lot will simply be buggy, perhaps unbearably so. In which case, move out your Sims and any graves, bulldoze the lot, and delete it from your lot catalog. Problem solved.

Scrapping your hood with no sign of corruption/problems from corruption seems a tad extreme. Not saying you can't if you want to, it's up to you. But iCad has a point. There are people who did things we know can corrupt the bajeebus out of your hood, that go on to play for ages and ages. Others have problems from nothing. Minimizing risks makes sense, but if you did something that might be corrupting it's not the end of things.

Just going to continue using some of the downloaded lots in 2 of my established hoods, and am planning to delete them from my game/lot menu.
One thing about this game is that after playing for a long time (been playing this since Apt.life came out) , you learn to build things for yourself much easier.
There are some lots that have burned themselves into my brain (the floorplan and general style); and I'm pretty sure I can duplicate them. *fingers crossed*

Think about in real life ... look at the changes in things that we once did/had/used that we're now finding out/ bein told that it's not safe :P

I'm a 70's baby, which means that for most of my growin up years I didn't wear a seat belt, I played with my sisters in the back of the station wagon when mom drove us. I don't recall the lead paint on cribs/ toys/ in paint, but then I was a kid, however we know now .. that's a no no.
Yes, some of things things could of caused major harm, but I'm still here some 40'ish years later :P. Even wearin a seatbelt doesn't instantly mean that a person will live through an accident.

So, I think like with most anything you do things to make it safe, but don't freak out because somethin down the road might happen.

Just to let you know guys, the sim references are actually safe. Some of the files are unsafe to keep. I'm speaking of the things I've noted above. I tried it and tested it out and I haven't got any issues so far. The Hood Checker doesn't show any reports as well.

The Sim Information file is huge if you may noticed it. It doesn't just contain the sim references. It also includes some other things, like the lot value information...
Mootilda's program to open sims2 packages may showed all of those things seperately and not merged them together as one record.

I acutally tested it, the game does reset all of the objects and relinks the references to a sim which is in the neighborhood if you have cleared the sim references. Because there's no sim on the lot, it will choose an universal sim instead. As said, all of the lots acutally have sim references in it. Even the never ever occupied lots. The sim references can't be prevented.

Many people think that it's because of the sim references but that's not the problem. The main thing that cause the corruptions are the left over files like Sim Relationships, Sim DNAs, and the other things I've mentioned above.

There may be sim references inside the OBJT files but the game can't read them and link to the sim if you remove the Sim Information file. The game will replace the current nID (cPerson?) record with an universal sim. I cleaned all of the sim references of the Maxis lots. They can be found here http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=544800

Again, I have never had any problems with those lots. The game just behaved them like the other lots. Deleting the Sim Information file just resets the lot entirely. The time of the lot will be set to default and if you have Seasons installed, you'll have to delete the Weather Information to reset the current season and weather as well.

Pardon me for necroing the thread, but I think the answer to my question might be relevant to the info gathered here.

I've got some previously-used lots that generate junk character files when opened for the first time. I place them in the hood, and when I open them, files appear in the Characters folder. If I quit without saving, then reopen the lot, these files don't appear again; but if I put the lot in the bin, or repackage it, and place it again, using it for the first time generates the characters too.

Perhaps it will be clearer to demonstrate; if anyone's interested, download the Super Burger lot (otherwise lovely) and place it in a new test hood; look inside this hood's Characters folder before and after opening it.

I followed Jawusa's advice. I placed the lot in a test hood, then opened its .package file in SimPE; removed Sim Information, SREL, and Sim Score records, saved. But the files still get generated in-game, whether I open the lot directly form the hood after cleaning it, or after first packaging it, installing with Clean Installer, and placing the new copy from the bin.

The Hood Checker doesn't show any errors after the whole process, but I'm still uneasy with it; this lot comes form a hood full of lots with the same problem*, and my copy of the hood went down the bork path much quicker than any hood I've ever played.

Is there something obvious that I'm missing? Is there a way to salvage these lots?

(*it was a collaborative effort, and a large chunk of the contributors didn't know how to build safely, apparently; I really hope there's a way to salvage it via SimPE. I could theoretically rebuild all the lots from scratch myself. I could also theoretically willingly eat glass. There's over 200 of them, and many of them very elaborate and detailed.)

I'm about to bump again. Sorry.

I wasn't 100% sure whether a dorm I had over the years was clean. I've played it for years, but thought I'd do it right before I put it in my custom Uni. I put it in a test Uni hood and deleted all the references on the right. I could not touch anything on the left. Sim PE nearly raised my blood pressure when I checked again and found I couldn't access ANYTHING on the right the next time I opened it. Fortunately, there is a reset button.

As Jawusa wrote, the stuff I deleted (Info, scores and Sim relationships) came back when I reset the Sim PE layout once I re-entered Sim PE, so all my deleting was for naught. I'm going to hope that there wasn't anything bad on that lot, because I can't figure out how to KEEP those references out, and hope they're now pointing to that Universal Sim or two. I did not see Family Relations or Sims DNA on it ... those would have caused more concern, since that would mean that Sims are still on that lot. They oughtn't be, since it's a dorm. But Maxis can work in strange ways.

I think it's as we've concluded in the past, and as d_dgjdhh indicated: the more stuff you have in and on the lot, the more references and scores you have, and simply deleting them in Sim PE will not get rid of most of them. Reset them maybe, but not get rid of them. You'd have to strip the items off the lot yourself, and even then, you'll have some strays if you've left a bush or a table. Sim Information seems to be a constant single item for all my lots. by the way. Unless they're Maxis lots, I use unplayed lots. This dorm and a pool were the only lots I wasn't 100% sure about being unplayed before I packaged them years ago. 80%. yes. But not 100%.

I do maintain that the Family Tree and SimDNA are the ones to be most concerned about. Items usually don't have Sim DNA, and windows are generally not siblings (Family Relations).

Since I tried to clean the lot to the best of my ability, I am now going to play it!

Yes, all self-made objects such as paintings, meals, etc. need to be deleted before deleting sim references. Also tombstone of deceased sims need to be moved. Otherwise, the sim reference removal will never be done properly.

I don't think I had any of those. I didn't see any. And if I recall, the game usually clears out those references (theoretically, anyway), once students move out. I did not use the stay-put shrub on the dorms. I do remind myself that even with unplayed lots, there are often a whole lot of references. I had removed the NPC stove before packaging. No deceased Sims. Those WOULD be a huge problem, since those are very much directly related to corruption.

However, there were a whole lot of tchotchkes in the dorm. It could be ... though I'm not sure ... that the game assigns references to dorm students not yet moved in.

I guess it's a little late now, since the lot is in my Uni hood. :/

EDIT ... I looked at the lot in my test hood. This is the same as the one now in my Uni hood, repackaged.

No paintings, posters, etc. on any walls at all. ACs, a huge clock, etc ... but no paintings.

I had put fresh beds on the lot already. No previously-slept-in beds.

No Shiny Tyme stove. I had removed that before packaging the lot.

No homework assignments, stray meals or cups.

Definitely no tombstones. While Goth students may like that, I don't think most would!

Nothing else on the ground that would cause concern.

The only things I see on tables and counters are items from either the Maxis catalog or custom downloads. No potato chip bags, plates, etc.

No leaking showers, etc. (I don't think that would make a difference, but ... ) No puddles or broken items that I can see.

Still a truckload of Sim references, but not the two that concern me the most out of all of them. It APPEARS ... fingers crossed ... that even if I had packaged that lot years ago after students moved out (I'm about 80% sure I did not ... I believe this lot was not played before I packaged, but I did make it years ago), any Sim references that could cause problems are not on the lot. I still wonder that because the lot is loaded with windows, doors and clutter (more than I usually have), and because it has four rooms for four students, that the game takes all that into account when creating references.

I THINK I'm good here. But this is Maxis. One can never be 100% sure!

You did remind me of a a very, very good point here: before packaging a played lot (again, I do not believe mine was): one should examine the lot carefully before even looking at the references. Look over room by room, square by square for anything a previous occupant would have left. I might even suggest replacing all the beds. Joandsarah77 already recommended removing any NPC-generating items such as stoves. You can put them in when you add the lot to a town.

And one point most of us here (including I) have made: Your very safest bet is a fresh, unplayed lot. I think this has now influenced my decision whether I wanted to build an old lot from the floor plans, or just use my old lot and renovate. Knowing the stupid things I did back in 2007/2008, it really would be the safest bet to work off pictures of my old floor plans and external appearance and rebuild the house. I can't run the risk of a previous Sim's dirty dishes on a table. While Maxis generally clears this stuff out, I have seen cases where it has not.

As others suggested (I am not that wise), there may be Sim references that are OK (such as ones added for windows) and ones that are not (such as dirty dishes from previous occupants). Really, to be 99% sure your lot is fine, don't try packaging an occupied lot unless you want it so, so intensely that you're willing to risk having any bad Sim references in your files. Handle played lots with lots of care.

Sim references don't always have to mean corruption. Sometimes, even if you delete the sim references, the game generates new ones but the new ones refer to the universal sims (e.g. Hula or the Grim Reaper NPC).
Because every neighborhood has those universal sims, it's no problem anymore.

It's only dangerous if the reference links to a sim that doesn't exist in your neighborhood. Meaning, if it doesn't link to one of the universal sims. If the sim reference is deleted, the game does not know to whom the reference was linked to, that's why it does re-link the reference to one of the universal sims. Which also occurs in unoccupied lots that have never been played.

That being said, there's always sim references. They're everywhere! But not all of them are dangerous. If it links to one of the universal sims, you should be fine and it won't cause corruption if you place the lot into another neighborhood. However, if it refers to a playable sim, then you'd need to delete the sim reference before moving the lot. The game will re-link the sim reference to an universal sim. But be careful, the game only does this if no one is living on the lot. You'll need to move out the family first.

This is quite an old thread, but I hope it's okay to bump it back up.
I went through all of my lots and cleaned out everything @Jawusa said, but it appears deleting the "Sim Information" part of the packages has made all the lots in my bin cost 0 simoleons. The price corrects itself after entering & exiting the lot, but I have over 800 lots so that's inconvenient (plus I kind of want to know the price of the lot before I place it).
I guess what I'm wondering is if there's any way to make sure the lots are cleaned without that side effect? Is the Sim Information bit definitely necessary to delete?

That is what you want to see, in bin lot costing 0. Please see my small tutorial posted here: http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=599534 Having it cost 0 shows you did it correctly. Place the lot and the real price will show.

@joandsarah77 Oh, that's good news then But there isn't any other way than saving each edited lot individually?

To get the correct price you have to place each lot down, sorry.

Yes, the Sim Information record HAS to be deleted! There's no way around it. Actually, this one is the most important one which needs to be deleted!

One day, when I upload my "Clean and Empty Neighborhood Templates", I will post an official tutorial with pictures on how to remove the sim references from one lot.
Also, I'd like to mention that this method is still in testing. I know... a lot of people already clean their lots using my inofficial tutorial, posted in multiple threads here on MTS.

http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=544800

Thank you very much for your help, both of you!